The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Outfitters - Offered and Discounted Hunts Any Offer Posted Here Which Mentions Tips Will Be Deleted!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| Administrator |
Frankly, I am getting fed up with offers being posted where a tip is mentioned that it is not included. A tip is up to the hunter to give if he feels like. He does not need to be reminded of it. Any hunt offer posted here where a tip or gratuity is mention as part of the offer will be deleted. | ||
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| One of Us |
Finally..... Thanks..... | |||
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| One of Us |
Good! | |||
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One of Us |
Thanks for this, Saeed. My last Zimbabwe PH begged and hinted for tips on his postings here, on the drive out from the airport, in emails prior to the hunt, etc.. Glad this will come to an end. Cal PS. What to do when a request for items from the states is followed by, "...and deduct it from my tip." _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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| Administrator |
Yesterday I looked at an offer here for a hunt in Spain. And "tips are not included" was right there for all of us to make sure we never forget about it. I deleted that offer, and posted the above. It has become rather silly of some outfitters and PHs offering hunts and making sure no one ever forgets about included a large sum of money for "tips". Actually, this sounds more like bloody blackmail to me than anything else. We went to a fishing harbor here in Dubai looking for a boat to hire for a fishing trip. We looked at several, and one owned and manned by two South Africans, had a printed notice prominently displayed in the cockpit saying "IT IS CUSTOMARY TO PAY A 15% TIP". As you can imagine, they did not get our business. And I told them why. Went with a local man and his crew, who insisted on paying for the coffee we had at the harbor coffee shop while discussing our trip. I asked him about "extras". He said "you pay for all the extra food and drinks you have asked for, and the price we have agreed on. Not a Dirham more. And I appreciate your business" | |||
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If I hadn't already sent the PH a deposit I think I would have cancelled my trip at that point. A big  to Saeed. This whole tipping thing in Africa has gotten way out of line.Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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| Administrator |
I understand it is just as bad in the US too. | |||
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| One of Us |
I see some are editing their posts and removing their tips request. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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| Administrator |
Good thing too. Because if I see any mention of tips I will delete it. | |||
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Tipping should be banned, period. ~Ann   | |||
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| One of Us |
Tips are tips. Give or don’t. Who cares. If I send clients hunting and they ask me should they give one I always say only if you want to. None of my guys whom I send guests to ask and I wouldn’t be working with them if they did. | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed, I agree! Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
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| One of Us |
My father and I went on a elk hunt a few years back. After a superb 10 days in the backcountry on horseback, we had a few chances but never long enough to pull the trigger. At the end I tipped our guide and he was almost taken aback, he just said “but you didn’t get an elk” I said you guys worked your butts off for 10 days and did everything you could to put us on an elk. Pulling the trigger is secondary to the experience and service is what the tips for. | |||
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You might single handedly change the course of direction on this thing for good. Or at least make a dent in it. thank you | |||
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| one of us |
Good on you, Saeed. | |||
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| One of Us |
very good direction and action. thank you. | |||
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| One of Us |
Not sure if we are the idiots that started it or what, but it is rampant. I belong to a hunt lottery called Sportsmans Sweepstakes. The outfit that runs it requires that any trip you win, that you tip 10-20%. It cost $300 a year to join, and if you win they want 10-20%. I reckon, I'll tip $30-60. To me that is 10-20% of what I paid for the trip. | |||
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| Administrator |
Having been hunting for many years, with several outfitters and professional hunters. Not a single one of them has ever mentioned tips. And I bet the majority of outfitters and Phs we have today are no different. It is the uncouth few who seem to make a point of making sure one needs to factor in tips. Those are the ones my post directed to, and they should know what we all think of their undesirable attitude. | |||
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| One of Us |
Saeed: Do yo think there is any corelation between the success of a PH and his view towards asking/hinting for tips? I seem to notice the better PHs with higher income don't nickel and dime the hunters whereas the lower income PHs with low cost hunts seem to do so; that including the relentless asking for tips. Just curious as to your take. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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| Administrator |
I doubt it. There are people who are just born crooks, in one way or another. And certain people use their heads to find the right people to deal with. Others could not careless. Some only look at the cheapest price on offer. One of the most idiotic things I have heard here was someone suggesting that one should never hunt with the same PH twice! His excuse was that the PH is "no friend" of yours. | |||
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| one of us |
Funniest case i kno of is a Canadian outfitter who sell his Big Horn hunt fro $67,000 and directly asks for a 10% tip. I found it outrageous. montero | |||
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. Well done Saeed! A good decision..... 100 % "Up the ladders and down the snakes!" | |||
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I don't consider it funny, I think that it is outrageous! This past January I was talking with a British Columbia outfitter at a sports show about a Stone Sheep hunt. Everything was looking good until he gave me his price sheet: Base price of the sheep hunt = $38,000 Add a sheep harvest fee = 10,000 Add base camp transportation = 1,450 Add GST (Gov't tax) = 6% Add gratuity (15% of base) = 5,700 Add guide of your choice = 1,000 Add BC Hunting License = 200 Add BC Sheep License = 680 Add BC Hunters Preservation Fund = 200 Add BC Gov't Harvest Fee = 250 Then a 50% payment was required to reserve the hunt, and Payments are Non-Refundable I realize that outfitters have high expenses that they have to cover, but it looked like this hunt was nickel and dimed to death. Maybe if I was Tom Brady and just given a $30 million a year contract this hunt would be pocket change, but to a guy that killed 3 Montana Bighorn rams on DIY solo hunts that each cost me a $25 tag and a tank of gas, I found that hunt outrageous. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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| one of us |
Saeed, I think your not allowing for the hunters that really don't know that a tip is customary. NOT required but customary! Not knowing about tips could put the hunter in a very uncomfortable position just because he/she was ignorant. The AR crowd is far more informed than the general guided hunt newbie in my experience. I think it's just fair to let folks know what the WHOLE story is so they can adjust their budget accordingly. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
That is precisely why I prefer Africa.... Tips are tips.... If I get asked for one, the answer is "zero". | |||
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| One of Us |
Should PHs, outfitters and agents be named for this tip business? Also, while Saeed is to be commended for the no tip post policy, rest assured that, when an initial contact is made about a hunt, the tip hint will be provided. "Saeed won't let me post this but tips are up to you. The camp staff needs the money so they will continue to work for me, your tip to me is your choice of course but I can give some guidelines, and can you bring me some fishing gear or some parts for an outboard and deduct it from my tip when you arrive." The issue will go away here on AR, but will remain everywhere else, Sadly. I gave my SA and Botswana extra on the tip issue and also my congratulations on the evening of the last day when I thanked them both for a good hunt and for not mentioning tips at all. _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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| Administrator |
Cal quoted the above from someone. Whoever that person is, he is a bloody liar. I have not had anyone asking me if he could post this. And to answer our friend Mark Young's question. You are right. It is customary to give tips - IF YOU WISH TO - and the amount is up to you. Hinting that a tip of X% is customary is not acceptable. This becomes a demand. I have had experience of this on some places, never at a hunting camp. When I go on holiday, which is what we are all talking about here, I go with the understanding that we have already agreed on the price I pay, and what I was promised for that price. Trying to tell me that I MUST cough up any additional sum is not acceptable at all. I have absolutely no problems telling whoever I encounter demanding this what I think. And I pay NOTHING. And they never see me again. I think most people are happy to give a tip, if they receive exceptional service. And I think not many wish to be kept reminded that they SHOULD tip at the end, regardless of what they got. | |||
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| One of Us |
I wonder if some outfitters who post here will just begin adding 10-20% to their offered hunts? It would be almost impossible for the prospective hunter to know or not, year to year On second thought, maybe this was already happening and some outfitters were receiving additional $$$ in the form of tips, on top of an inflated offer? | |||
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| Administrator |
They can of course, and I hope they price themselves out of the market. | |||
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| One of Us |
Unbeknown to you, some outfitters have been doing just that for years and clients have been none the wiser and possibly even dumber for giving a tip at the end of the hunt. | |||
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| one of us |
Saeed, We agree on a lot of this tip business. I think putting a tip % in the pricing as in the example of the sheep hunt is outrageous because it's not a tip at that point but part of the expected basic hunt. I also find it to be without class. Also basing tips on a percentage of the cost of the hunt is ridiculous. Does anyone believe on a 10 day buffalo hunt in say Tanzania that the PH and crew work 2-3 times harder than the crew on a similiar hunt in Zim. Given that why would the tip be 2-3 times as much in Tanzania than Zim. Finally I think we disagree about talking about tips during the hunt. I don't find it offensive if the PH discretely asks what I thing about a staff tip toward the end of the safari. His guidance is appreciated by me on this. On the other hand hinting about tips unsolicited throughout the safari is very bad form IMO. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
if you need the extra 10% to pay your employee enough to keep him on the payroll, including it in the price is fine with me. telling me a price [and what I'm taking a chance at receiving] and then asking for more to pay the staff at the end isn't cool. we all understand hunting is hunting and there are no guarantee's, but we still put our boots on and go out the door each morning. paying for a hunt is just paying rent with a chance to shoot something. | |||
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| Administrator |
Mark, My point is the PH should never mention tips! Period. If the client asks him what he would recommend, that another matter. But the PH “discreetly” mentioning it is unacceptable! | |||
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| one of us |
Saeed, I get your point but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Cheers, Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't think that a PH should EVER ask for a tip! A tip should be an unexpected but nice gesture at the end of the hunt | |||
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| One of Us |
“discreetly” and “Tip” in no way shape or form go together. All it is, is a guilt trip for the client? | |||
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One of Us |
It is simply a fact.Outfitters here and abroad expect a sizable tip for everyone they employ. They can claim otherwise but it is bullshit. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Saeed: THANK YOU!! | |||
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No one should demand, hint for, suggest or recommend a TIP. If the outfitter needs more money to pay their camp staff, they should hike up their prices and pay their staff more. The last place I went (and he advertises here regularly) didn't ask or hint for a tip, just matter-of-factly told me to pay it directly to him (so he could dole it out as pay throughout the year). The PH got mad and started running his mouth when he found out I tipped the tracker directly. Said, "I won't have a tracker for 2 weeks." I bluntly told him that was his problem and should pay his staff more if my tip was enough they could take off work for 2 weeks. My mechanic or HVAC repairman doesn't demand or expect a tip. And if a cop, judge or government employee here in the US hinted for one, I would promptly file a complaint. _______________ DSC NRA Benefactor | |||
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To become a member of Zimbabwes professional hunters and Guides association you have to sign a code of conduct that states you are not to solicit for tips of any kind. Clients are encouraged to report any such behaviour to the association and the offending member will be dealt with accordingly. Adriaan Olivier Wild Africa Safaris - Zimbabwe info@wildafricasafaris.co.zw +263 772 312 546 (Whats App) | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Outfitters - Offered and Discounted Hunts Any Offer Posted Here Which Mentions Tips Will Be Deleted!
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