Only Two Hunts left for 2011 with World Class Fishing and Hunting outfitters. Let us guide you on a Guaranteed 180BC or better buck for only $6,500. No daily fees for this 3 day hunt! Lodging included on this 3000 acre Ranch located in South TX approx 1 hr south of San Antonio. Over 40 exotics on the ranch. Fully furnished Hunting lodge located on the ranch. Other deer hunts available on this ranch but this one is a super special. This ranch has a few deer pushing 200BC. Check out our website for other info and price lists or give us a call or e-mail. www.worldclassfishingandhunting.com
World Class Fishing and Hunting
11010 Mystic Cove
Magnolia, TX 77354
(281) 948-6414

quote:

Originally posted by WorldClassFishingandHunting:
Only Two Hunts left for 2011 with World Class Fishing and Hunting outfitters. Let us guide you on a Guaranteed 180BC or better buck for only $6,500. No daily fees for this 3 day hunt! Lodging included on this 3000 acre Ranch located in South TX approx 1 hr south of San Antonio. Over 40 exotics on the ranch. Fully furnished Hunting lodge located on the ranch. Other deer hunts available on this ranch but this one is a super special. This ranch has a few deer pushing 200BC....

I respectfully request that you withdraw or change your offer immediately. You cannot say 'guarantee' and BC buck in the same sentence. B&C is "Fair Chase" only; absolutely NO high fence, ever.

If you refer to scoring, say 'SCI estate' or some such. Do not try to equate BC with any similar offer.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
...You cannot say 'guarantee' and BC buck in the same sentence. B&C is "Fair Chase" only; absolutely NO high fence, ever.

If you refer to scoring, say 'SCI estate' or some such. Do not try to equate BC with any similar offer.

I hear what you are saying, although strictly speaking nothing stops you from scoring a set of antlers according to the B&C scoring sheet. Another matter is that you won't be able to submit the antler measurement for a high fence buck to the B&C book...

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
If you refer to scoring, say 'SCI estate' or some such. Do not try to equate BC with any similar offer.

I think I will pass. I prefer my deer a little less gauranteed.

don't worry if you're a poor shot - they can't get out of the barn

sounds like one of those high fence operations for PG an some DG in Africa. You got the coin you got the "trophy"

The garuntee is that you will get a 180" or better buck or you will receive a full refund. The ranch is a high fenced 3000 acre ranch. If you have questions please feel free to call. Thanks in advance!

quote:

Originally posted by WorldClassFishingandHunting:
The garuntee is that you will get a 180" or better buck or you will receive a full refund. The ranch is a high fenced 3000 acre ranch. If you have questions please feel free to call. Thanks in advance!

That is comforting....
Could you just go ahead and shoot for me so I won't be inconvenienced and have to actually hunt for it?

Never hunted high fence.

Never scored an animal I've shot.

but it seems a shame a fellow can't come here a post a legit offer, (whether you consider it a hunt or not) and not be subject to scorn and ridicule.

Best

GWB

You would think that wouldn't you Geedubya.

What amazes me is that there are or were some folks want to discuss how hunters could ban together to fight the efforts of the anti's.

They all seem to have disappeared and this is about the 3rd. or 4th. thread cutting people down for how they want to hunt.

Yes, I see hunters have a really bright future.

FWIW,

If the deer are loose in the entire 3000 acres and not coming to bait it could be a really challenging hunt. I read a story about an 8 point buck that the landowner was trying to remove from the gean pool in his enclosure. They hunted him 3 days before he was seen and killed him on the 7th day. This was in 40 acres!!!

Hawkeye

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
I hear what you are saying, although strictly speaking nothing stops you from scoring a set of antlers according to the B&C scoring sheet. Another matter is that you won't be able to submit the antler measurement for a high fence buck to the B&C book...

True, and I'm no lawyer, but I don't think that anyone can misuse or misrepresent the copyright/trademark of B&C, like if advertising a B&C guaranteed hunt, and that appears to be what the fellow was also doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
Never hunted high fence.

Never scored an animal I've shot.

but it seems a shame a fellow can't come here a post a legit offer, (whether you consider it a hunt or not) and not be subject to scorn and ridicule.

Best

GWB

+1 Exactly.

All the people who are adding their "insights" should just shut the fuck up and go on to another thread. I wouldn't take this hunt, but many others might and that is their choice and their hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:.....
all the peole who are adding their "insights" should just shut the fuck up and go on to another thread.....

Now here is a post to be proud of! Thought I'd quote him just so others could see it after he sobers up an edits it.

First of you do not know whether he had been drinking anything or not when he posted that so you lied right there, that is not helping your case.

Also I don't see where you set the rules for this section of the forum. The man posted what he had to offer, don't like it or approve of it, that is yours and the other folks that jumped on the guys business and if it is that big an issue maybe the kangaroo Court should get Saeed to change the rules and not allow such offers posted on here.

No real hunts come with a "guarantee" for a particular sized "trophy". This is the same as shooting a penned lion IMO

No Reason for Peta to even worry about hunting. Someday with hunters vs hunters and the infighting it will all self destruct, fence vs no fence. I've fenced hunted and open ranged hunted. Some lives leave little time for as many days in the feild that we wish for. I still want to collect and have certain species and enjoy both enclosed and open range hunts.
To each their own and it's no one's right to look down on what any hunter does with his money or his or hers time as long as it's legal.
They support hunting as much as those that disagree with their ways. Keep fighting Peta's watching.

This gentleman is offering a hunt that is guaranteed your money back if you do not shoot a buck. That's all he is saying. I don't believe he asked for an opinion on his techniques yet some (usually the same ones) are quick to voice an opinion. Take your opinions of high or low fence hunting elsewhere. simply disregard his post if you disagree but don't flame someone trying to make a living.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:.....
all the peole who are adding their "insights" should just shut the fuck up and go on to another thread.....

Now here is a post to be proud of! Thought I'd quote him just so others could see it after he sobers up an edits it.

Not only am I not going to edit it, but let me add a heartfelt personal "fuck you" to it. Quote that, Prick.

tsk, tsk, tsk another troll pops his head up to snipe. I'd continue but the forum is Offered & Discounted Hunts I'm certain other posters see you for what you are.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
This gentleman is offering a hunt that is guaranteed your money back if you do not shoot a buck. That's all he is saying. I don't believe he asked for an opinion on his techniques yet some (usually the same ones) are quick to voice an opinion. Take your opinions of high or low fence hunting elsewhere. simply disregard his post if you disagree but don't flame someone trying to make a living.

If you are going to advertise something like this you have to expect some comments, some you may agree with and some you may not. I have friends that have killed deer in this manner. I don't judge them for doing so but they don't try to make it out to be something that it isn't. I don't understand why people have a problem with somebody calling it what it is.

Drummond I agree with what you say but just what was misrepresented in the original post?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gatogordo:.....
all the peole who are adding their "insights" should just shut the fuck up and go on to another thread.....

Now here is a post to be proud of! Thought I'd quote him just so others could see it after he sobers up an edits it.

Not only am I not going to edit it, but let me add a heartfelt personal "fuck you" to it. Quote that, Prick.[/QUOT


Is that really necessary?

quote:

Only Two Hunts left for 2011 with World Class Fishing and Hunting outfitters. Let us guide you on a Guaranteed 180BC or better buck for only $6,500. No daily fees for this 3 day hunt! Lodging included on this 3000 acre Ranch located in South TX approx 1 hr south of San Antonio. Over 40 exotics on the ranch. Fully furnished Hunting lodge located on the ranch. Other deer hunts available on this ranch but this one is a super special. This ranch has a few deer pushing 200BC. Check out our website for other info and price lists or give us a call or e-mail.

Whether we like it or agree with it, or hate it and disagree with it, it is still a form of hunting.

At the rate things are going and with the apparent lack of interest folks on this site have in regards to putting aside their differences and prejudices and standing up o the anti hunting element, this type of "hunting" may be all that is available at some point in the not too distant future.

I do not recall anywhere in Saeeds rules concerning this topic area that the offered "hunts" had to fall within the realm of what is considered "Real Hunting" by some individuals.

The only wording I see that might be disagreeable to some is the use of the word hunt.

Crazy,
This is not a form of hunting. It is blood sport, pen raised killing, shooting of captive bred animals addicted to a feeder.

That is my entire agitation with this thread.

Saeed advocates free range hunting. He does not support pen raised lion shooting. What is the difference between this place and shooting pen raised lions? Nothing from what I can tell.

We have debated this on AR many times - what is ethical and what is not.

Let me ask - "Is it ethical to call it hunting, when the animal is 'guranteed' to be a certain size or your money back?"

I say no and we, as the hunting community should call it what it is - slaughter for the sake of inches of horn. No more no less.

If he had posted - " I have a 3000 acres high fenced enclosure which contains no internal fences and the animals are free range and native bred that I am offering for your hunting pleasure. We have some 180" bucks in there and some that may go 200". Try your luck and skill. Price is $6500. "

I may have been somewhat tempted to look at it. As someone has said, 3000 acres is nearly 5 square miles and could contain some very challenging hunting.

However, the post said "guaranteed" or money back. It also said there are 40 exotics. I assume he means 40 types of exotics. I cannot name that many if he truly has them. I checked his website. He lists bongo, sitatunga, nyala and a host of others - all on this 3000 acre wonderland. What that really means is that "I have a ton of critters I have bought at auctions along with a few big whitetails that come to feeder twice a day and you can shoot the biggest one see for $6500".

That is crap. That is shooting in a zoo.

I have hunted bongo, sitatunga and nyala in Africa. They are magnificent animals and difficult to hunt. To reduce them and our sport to shooting in a pasture will definitely be the death of hunting in the US for sure. If we do not self regulate, guess what, someone will.

Further, there are several agents who have chimed in on this thread. I am not attacking you. I respect most of you. I use your services. However, selling a hunt is different from selling a "shoot". You guys provide a valuable service to the real hunting industry. This type of activity does not and I do not support it.

In my state a few years ago, a guy went around and bought bears, lions and tigers from private people. He turned them loose in an enclosed area and sold them as "hunts". There was no law against it at the time because not one was so moral-less to do such a thing. When it was found out, he was shut down and laws passed to prevent this.

I do not feel one bit of remorse or guilt for calling his operation bogus when he calls it "hunting". It is shooting, not hunting.

Then Saeed and the powers that be, need to add more qualifiers as to what can and can not be listed in this section, and if operations such as this one do not meet that base criteria then they should not be allowed to post their business.

It is not something I would want to do, even if I had the $$$$$. Operations like this do not appeal to me, and I consider them shoots, not hunts, but where is the line drawn. I offer hunts for white tail on low fence properties with no guarantees, but the hunts take place in Texas, therefore they are done from a blind overlooking a timed feeder. Is that a Fair Chase hunt? A lot of folks do not think so. Yet hiking in and watching a natural feeding area/mineral lick/watering area seems to be acceptable.

Until or unless Saeed and the PTB's of AR establish some rigid set of standards on what is/is not acceptable for listing in this topic area, this operator has as much right to list his service as someone offering a 20 foot safari in Africa.

Also, people listing their offerings in this section should be able to do so without being concerned with irate attacks from people that do not agree with the way they conduct business.

Want to raise hell about it, raise hell at Saeed, it is his site and he is the one that decides on the content, not you and not me and not any of the other members of the Kangaroo Court.

Whether we like it/agree with it/condone it/accept it or believe it shoulds be completely stopped, makes no difference in the scheme of things, because there are people that have no problem whatsoever using the services of such operations.

Crazy,
I respect your opinion and your privilege to state it here. However, I disagree with your position. I believe if you or I or anyone else advertised a captive raise lion hunt here, it would get scorched - as it should. "Guranteed" 180" whitetails mixed in among "40 other exotics" should get some comment as well and I will not flinch from doing so.

Advertise anything that meets the criteria - I am fine with that - but it does not mean it is "off limits" from comment. Every forum here gets comments and this one should as well.

quote:

Yes, I see hunters have a really bright future.

It it going to get brighter as we demonstrate to them this type of "hunting"

Canned is canned, sugarcoat it however you want.

The problem as I see it, whether anyone agrees or not, it is their priveldge and they can feel the way they wish, but maybe it would be good if posts in this section, were not open to comments.

The people posting in this section list their contact info, so if a person has any questions or comments about a particular operation, those should be directed to the contacts listed, and not aired out here on the forum.

If a person just has to air out a gripe/problem or even give a recommendation, do so in the appropriate open discussion area, in this case American Hunting, if the operation is in Africa then post such information in the African hunting section.

Maybe people wanting to post their services in this section, should have to submit it to a moderator for approval, with the moderator posting the information and the topic area locked down with no responses permitted only the posting of information provided by the operator.

Just for the record...........

GWB

Thanks for posting that Geedubya.

Dogcat, I really do see your point and actually do agree with much of what you are saying, I just feel that guides/outfitters/PH's anyone offering legal services should be able to do so without being attacked.

SD Hunter, no one is trying to sugar coat anything.

Here is another thought. The animals in question belong to the gentleman posting the advert. That means they are his to do with as he pleases. It is the law of supply and demand. I can remember a time in the not to distant past when a 180" whitetail would fetch nearly $15,000 or more. That price is in a bit of decline it seems, could be the economic downturn or market saturation....doesn't matter.

What does matter is the very people that claim to be for "sport hunting" are the ones clammering for his head. So what is your defence of "trophy hunting" vs "meat hunting" vs "subsistance hunting". I have hunted behind a high fence twice here in the States and and twice in South Africa. Three of the four places I had a great time and the hunt was very challenging. One not so much, but you pay your money and you take your chances.

What we as hunters/shooters/killers must always do is stand together. Look at what happened to Fox hunting in England. Gone quite possibly forever. This is the grandest of all sport yet few stood with them in their time of need and it looks as if driven birds are on the anti's list next.

I personally do not want to hunt a $6500 deer I would rather take the same money to South Africa and watch my daughter shoot an Impala and a Blesbok, and a Springbok, and a Warthog, and eat new and wonderful foods, and pass out dolls to little native girls that have never had one. All behind a high fence.

Gentlemen,

I have no objection to anyone offering hunts behind high fence areas, as long as that fact is posted.

Anytime I see the word "guarantee" in context, I know it is behind a fence.

Members are free to make their own choice whether to go on this type of hunt or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheshire:
Here is another thought. The animals in question belong to the gentleman posting the advert. That means they are his to do with as he pleases. It is the law of supply and demand. I can remember a time in the not to distant past when a 180" whitetail would fetch nearly $15,000 or more. That price is in a bit of decline it seems, could be the economic downturn or market saturation....doesn't matter.

What does matter is the very people that claim to be for "sport hunting" are the ones clammering for his head. So what is your defence of "trophy hunting" vs "meat hunting" vs "subsistance hunting". I have hunted behind a high fence twice here in the States and and twice in South Africa. Three of the four places I had a great time and the hunt was very challenging. One not so much, but you pay your money and you take your chances.

What we as hunters/shooters/killers must always do is stand together. Look at what happened to Fox hunting in England. Gone quite possibly forever. This is the grandest of all sport yet few stood with them in their time of need and it looks as if driven birds are on the anti's list next.

I personally do not want to hunt a $6500 deer I would rather take the same money to South Africa and watch my daughter shoot an Impala and a Blesbok, and a Springbok, and a Warthog, and eat new and wonderful foods, and pass out dolls to little native girls that have never had one. All behind a high fence.

Well said, and I second the thought.

quote:

little native girls that have never had one. All behind a high fence.

You have a place that keeps little native girls behind a high fence?

This man ownes the deer so he is free to do with them what he wants, they are just like if he owned some cows. But in no way is this hunting, it is just shooting.

The fact that he said you could shoot a B&C buck when he knows full well that it is not B&C makes me question the ethics of the man though.

As someone else pointed out anyone can describe a buck as being "X" B&C points/class, No Where in the add is it mentioned that the animal can be registered with B&C.

Yes, it is just a shoot, but all successful hunts end up being shoots if an animal is killed.

Black bears on the islands of Alaska, Prince of Wales etc., where a large vessel is used as base camp and boats are used to locate the bears. Is that hunting or shooting and is it Fair Chase?

For those that have done it, and enjoy it, they think it is. But for some people the idea of riding around in a boat, spotting a bear feeding on the shore and then motoring in and putting on a short stalk and shooting the bear while it is feeding, that does not constitute a real hunt.

Does setting and watching a water hole or fence crossing while chasing pronghorns constitute hunting or is that just another way to gain a shooting opportunity?

Is using decoys to attract ducks hunting or just a means to produce more shooting opportunities?

Merriam-Webster definition of Hunting:

1: the act of one that hunts; specifically : the pursuit of game

2: the process of hunting

The definition of what hunting means to each Individual is open for interpretation and varies from one individual to another.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

little native girls that have never had one. All behind a high fence.

You have a place that keeps little native girls behind a high fence?

Do you have pictures?

quote:

Originally posted by reelman1:

The fact that he said you could shoot a B&C buck when he knows full well that it is not B&C makes me question the ethics of the man though.

Hmm, 39 posts and you 'question' the ethics of someone who posts a 'guaranteed' hunt b/c they use the term B&C?
Please!
I have several friends who hunt bows only and they all talk in terms of B&C when describing animals they've seen or taken. Perhaps P&Y sound too much like 'pee and why'.

B&C has become the most common terminology when describing how an animal is scored. I've NEVER heard anyone use 'estate'. Ya'll must not be from the South b/c we use Coke to describe just about any soda water. Same with making a copy - just Xerox it.
Get off ya'lls high horse. The guy isn't trying to hide anything unlike some who have advertised on here.