quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
I'm with you 100%. Unreal how the wagons are circled when a pimp/fellow salesman here gets his sack caught in the three strand.

That quote is over the top!

I don't mean the circle the wagons part I mean the three strand metaphor.

Holy Cow Kamo, that makes my upper lip sweat and my gut lurch just reading it. Please try to take it a little easy on those of us with a little more fragile constitutions.

Surestrike, your command of the facts is negligible, your command of humor is extinct.

Seems unfortunate and inaccurate to me that either Mark or Matt are being electronically thrashed. I've booked four and completed three hunts with Mark all very successfully. I've booked and completed one hunt very successfully with Matt and am about to book a second.

That Mark is a friend or Matt is my newest BFF has nothing to do with any of my hunts. I have friends in the auto repair business that I do not do business with. I have friends in the construction, accounting, grocery and airline industries that I do not do business with. I chose and continue to choose to do recreation business with Mark and Matt because it has been a pleasant and successful experience. I owe either of them nothing and have written none of this at their request or command.

Having not discussed this issue with either fellows, I suspect Matt has been unable to respond to the drama and maybe now doesn't care to. Maybe not. Mark I suspect would be unable to add info without it coming from Matt and maybe now doesn't wanna. Never the less, electrons are pulsing and the internet has made its decision with moments to spare. Unfortunate. I suspect potential clients will not book adventures like I did that would make happy memories. Not booking based on internet hysteria.

Dux, frankly I just don't believe your story. Didn't then don't now. The length of your walk, the ph coming in up wind every time, the value you place on the aledgedly stolen items, questionable. The ph you shill for shoots calfs and iguanas. Questionable. No Adam didn't get me to say that, I'm not sure I've spoken with him ever.

Drummond, No offense meant and obviously you are quite a fine guide considering your past success and the beautiful buck pictured above, but as a semi un connected tourist hunter and potential client of yours I gotta tell you I'd be un impressed with the guide on my payroll checking AR, Facebook, e-mail and all the other electric gadgets and programs. Some of us still like the idea of simply hunting. I didn't look at anything electronic for the two weeks I was in New Mexico. Didn't even see a tv or turn on the rv radio. It was nice.

I'll give up I guess. I'm in no way proffesionally or personally involved so it doesn't really affect me.

Scott,

When you're finished lubing up your buddies, take a second look at what is happening here.

Since you probably forgot, let me remind you. Mr. Young posted a hunt for sale, which he would happily profit on. So far, no problem. Then it turns out there was a factual misrepresentation of said hunt. Uh oh, big problem. Drummond had the drop on your buds, and he does not suffer fools gladly.

Ignorance is claimed, the ball if tossed into your new BFF's court. An explanation is promised, none forthcoming. Not surprising, really. How can the facts be explained any other way?

By the only way possible. Your ad hominem attacks are, well, predictable.

Understandably you want to validate your intelligence in choosing Matt by defending anything he does. I get it. Here's a tip- you have reached the point of greatly diminishing returns. The smartest thing you said was "I'll give up..." Good.


Your other intelligent comment

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
I suspect potential clients will not book adventures like I did..

Mr. Young, is this hunt still available? Thanks!

quote:

Surestrike, your command of the facts is negligible, your command of humor is extinct.

I understand why you are upset. But it isn't my fault that you've got a wimpy dog.

And no matter how loud you scream and shout and roll on the floor kicking and whining and thrashing about. The fact is that picture and the hunt offered don't go together.

Here is the problem that I have with this entire fiasco. I have been hunting Mexico since the mid 90's and I have seen this 100 times if I've seen it once. A guy gets sold on a ranch by a Mexican outfitter and he is told that it's the greatest ranch in Mexico. With all the ranches that are the "best ranch in Mexico" or "have never been hunted" its a wonder anybody can ever afford to go or even find a place to go. I can think of 5 times off the top of my head where a guy tells me in the airport that his ranch has "never been hunted" and when they tell me what ranch and where it turns out that I've leased the damn thing before. It's a joke because that guy sold the hunters on something that's not true and the result of this is normally one of those horror stories we all love to read about.

I'm not saying that this hunt is going to be a disaster and you wouldn't have a chance to kill a big deer, I'm just saying you need to proceed with caution and DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

I'm also not saying that the mule deer that was advertised was not killed on the ranch that was leased but if it was you will never convince me that having your hunters fly to Tucson to be picked up and driven to the ranch is a good idea. It makes zero sense. With Matt and/or Mark being unwilling to give the general vicinity of the ranch there is no way to tell. Again, Mark, IMO when you're selling a hunt you have got to know these types of things. There is no excuse for not knowing. To this point it sounds like you guys are selling a hunt going off nothing but this Mexican guys word. That's SCARY and completely irresponsible.

Look, I don't have anything against Mark Young or Matt Woodward personally and as I stated previously I have defended one of their hunt offerings in the past. Mark and I have a mutual friend and it's somebody that I hold in high regard and he says Mark is a good guy. That being said, if I see something like this I'm going to speak up. I'm sure a lot of people don't like me because of this and that really doesn't bother me, it's not a popularity contest. There are simply too many questions about this hunt IMO

Good luck

Guys calm down a little
I have to say Mark left a very good impression in the past and I tought about booking a hunt with him. Some of the stuff that happend in the last weeks is definitly destroying that good impression although lots of it is probably not Marks fault.

quote:

Originally posted by dukxdog: The driver got lost after I killed my first buff so I ended up having to walk 30km back to camp from the kill site. The "PH" couldn't make the hike (we left him half way) so I walked back with the tracker to send a truck from camp to pick him up.

Wow that's really a special experience!
Sorry for your bad hunt!

quote:

Adam's response to me was "You went on a discounted hunt so how can you expect first rate service."

Adam seems to be a top agent

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Drummond,

I'm not going to get into a long protracted back and forth with you....

....I think if you go back you'll see I posted that the deal had just been finalized.

Mark,

With all due respect, I was not asking you to get "into a long protracted back and forth" with me, I just want to know where the ranch is. It's been a week now and still no answer.

As for you mentioning that the deal had just been finalized, you did not mention that in the initial hunt offering, it wasn't until I asked a few questions.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

My understanding has been that this forum was created to allow outfitters, safari operators and agents to post available hunts and for folks to see what is out there for sale. I don't mind at all answering questions about the ads I post particularly if I've posted something that is unclear.

Well, you obviously mind if questions are asked.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
The deal is to lay out all the facts/details initially. If this had been done there would have been no questions. I do this as do the other regular agents and safari operators offering hunt here. When an outfit offers a hunt but is reluctant to post details it has to make folks suspicious.

Yep, starting to look suspicious. Hell, it was suspicious before you refused to answer the question.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
My contact info is on every post I make. If anyone has a legitimate question about anything they can contact me anytime and I welcome that.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
If you place ads here on AR you will get asked tough questions which often seem like an interrogation but that is the nature of internet sales.

"Where is the ranch" is not a difficult question Mark


Mark, you call me out and ask why I don't handle this privately but these quotes are proof that you hold people accountable publicly.

I expected more Mark, I really did

MARK H. YOUNG- you have lost my respect. It sounds like you're just like Adam in that you've compromised your values...

MARK, this says volumes about you and your business- IMHO, I would never book a hunt with a guy like you.

Matt Woodward sent me a PM last night and the ranch is in fact the same ranch where the deer came from. Makes zero sense to me to pick up a hunter in Tucson to hunt this particular ranch as it is literally minutes from Hermosillo and it is so much easier for the outfitter and the hunter to fly in rather than drive in.

That's all I will say about the hunt, I will not comment further.

Matt name dropped the hunter and the booking agent so my post got him to digging for answers which I don't think is a bad thing. Regardless, thank you Matt for answering the questions

Mark, not answering questions when asked is unprofessional and disrespectful! Know what you're selling before you advertise it. You knew nothing about this hunt yet put it up for sale. Where is your due diligence? I am disappointed Mark, I really expected more

Drummond

Members,

Maturity among other things includes being able to admit you were wrong and the ability to eat some crow when you are. As this relates to this ad I was wrong and twofold wrong.

First off in my haste to get this ad up for Matt Woodward/Borderland Adventures I didn't gather enough information or ask enough questions about the hunts and logistics. I did and do have full faith in Matt but I didn't have mt ducks in a row and didn't knowwhat I needed to. I compounded this mistake by taking the questions about the hunt as an attack on me personally. In a word I got angry. What I should have done is stepped back, given the ad another look seeing it as others might as incomplete and possibly deceptive. Then I should have taken it down until I knew more.

Regardless of the occasional controversy AR has been good to me, interesting, fun and I 'd like to think I've made some contributions of value also. SO-O-O-O! I'd like to apologise for my unprofessional and non businesslike behavior concerning this ad. I've taken the ad down and I'll try in the future to "Look before I leap".

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Members,

Maturity among other things includes being able to admit you were wrong and the ability to eat some crow when you are. As this relates to this ad I was wrong and twofold wrong.

First off in my haste to get this ad up for Matt Woodward/Borderland Adventures I didn't gather enough information or ask enough questions about the hunts and logistics. I did and do have full faith in Matt but I didn't have mt ducks in a row and didn't knowwhat I needed to. I compounded this mistake by taking the questions about the hunt as an attack on me personally. In a word I got angry. What I should have done is stepped back, given the ad another look seeing it as others might as incomplete and possibly deceptive. Then I should have taken it down until I knew more.

Regardless of the occasional controversy AR has been good to me, interesting, fun and I 'd like to think I've made some contributions of value also. SO-O-O-O! I'd like to apologise for my unprofessional and non businesslike behavior concerning this ad. I've taken the ad down and I'll try in the future to "Look before I leap".

Mark

Mark,

You and I have history...some good....some not. That being said I can't let this post ride without comment.

I think you have accessed this situation accurately and this post is excellent.

The recent affair with Adam and ACST will stick to you like glue. After all, you are not an island operating alone. You may book a hunt for me or someone else but we are still signing papers with ACST. We are still sending $$$$ to ACST. You are linked at the hip.

I can personally see, after the Zim issue and its coverage here, how you might get a bit defensive about a question or two, even a valid one.

Like you said, after review you realized you were responding not with dispassionate facts but with emotion.

I'm awfully glad to see you make this post and I look forward to outlining in mid July how helpful you have been towards the successful outcome in my roller coaster ride of a booking this time around.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Members,

Maturity among other things includes being able to admit you were wrong and the ability to eat some crow when you are. As this relates to this ad I was wrong and twofold wrong.

First off in my haste to get this ad up for Matt Woodward/Borderland Adventures I didn't gather enough information or ask enough questions about the hunts and logistics. I did and do have full faith in Matt but I didn't have mt ducks in a row and didn't knowwhat I needed to. I compounded this mistake by taking the questions about the hunt as an attack on me personally. In a word I got angry. What I should have done is stepped back, given the ad another look seeing it as others might as incomplete and possibly deceptive. Then I should have taken it down until I knew more.

Regardless of the occasional controversy AR has been good to me, interesting, fun and I 'd like to think I've made some contributions of value also. SO-O-O-O! I'd like to apologise for my unprofessional and non businesslike behavior concerning this ad. I've taken the ad down and I'll try in the future to "Look before I leap".

Mark

Mark,

Thank you. It takes a big man to make a post like that.

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Mark,

Thank you. It takes a big man to make a post like that.

+1

Good stuff Mark!

Brett

Seems good 'ol Adam Clements could learn a little something from his hunt seller.

Also - Drummond said "do your homework". He is exactly correct. If you buy a hunt, you are going to pay the money whether it goes well or not as the agent will not likely stand good for it unless you have a contract stating as much.

Too many things get sold when the commission salesman has no "skin in the game" and gets his money regardless of outcome.

+2 Mark. I was just about to add my own comments, and you stepped up. We all make mistakes. Now lets book a hunt for 2012.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by Jack D Bold:
Mark,

Thank you. It takes a big man to make a post like that.

+1

Good stuff Mark!

Brett