quote:

Originally posted by scruffy:
Yo !

I am looking for three hunting partners to do an unguided plainsgame hunt in the Eastern Cape, South Africa.

This is a hunt for the physically fit only ... and it is a hunt that is for experienced folks who don't do a lot of whining ...

This hunt is organized by John Coleman.

Limpopo Hunting Safaris
PO Box 287
Adelaide, 5760 Eastern Cape
South Africa

Mobile + 27 83 399 62228

E mail : coleman36458@gmail.com

My e mail is: Scruffy7@telus.net
My phone # is 1- 403 - 329-0904

Here is the scoop folks:

This is a good ranch hunt and supplied is all necessary camping gear and cooking utensils, a tracker and good natural animals for fair chase hunting. Salt is supplied for field treatment of skins and trophies.

We inform John of what food we desire and he will purchase it (at cost) before the hunt.

With the assistance of a tracker we can skin, butcher, and transport our trophy/meat to camp and look after ourselves.

A mobile phone will be provided for contact purposes.

We can hire a vehicle for access and pickup purposes. No shooting from a vehicle is allowed.

We will be on our own and will have to walk whilst hunting.

We will be met at the airport and taken to the hunting area and dropped off .. then collected when the hunt is over and returned to the airport.

After the hunt dipping, packing, permits and shipping of trophies will be at our cost.

6 people can be accomodated at the tent camp and there are flush toilets and bathing facilities.

*** We will be required to supply proof and references regarding our competence as a hunter.

*** There is a professional hunter in the area to cover regulations. For any wounded animal the professional hunter will assist in finding it for a fee of $200 a day. He will also fill in and submit all neccessary forms and obtain necessary permits.

A deposit of 50% of the daily rates is required at time of booking to confirm. The balance of the daily fees must be paid 30 days before the hunt commences. The trophy fees are paid on the last day of the hunt.

Dipping, packing, taxidermy fees etc. to be paid to the relevant persons concerned on request ... before shipping.

Fees Per Hunting Day

Daily rate per hunter: 2 hunters: per day each - $225... 3-4 hunters : per day each $200 ... 5-6 hunters : per day each $190 ..

Daily rate per non hunting companion : $100

Hire of vehicle per day (up to 100 km per day) if required : $100

Fuel at cost

Ammunition: at cost, if required.

Camp cook (if required) per day: $ 35

PH assistance (if required) per day: $200

Suggested tip to tracker: per day: $5
Worker per day: $3

(Any tips should be given to the tracker and camp worker with the employer present. )

Pick up and return to the nearest Port Elizabeth airport : per trip per party: $250

Trophy fees (killed or wounded) as follows ...

In the occasional event of any dangerous game being available to hunt ,, (i.e.) leopard of buffalo) a PH must accompany the client at all times while hunting these animals. A separate quote will be made at that time. (The law)

The hunt will be 7-10 days. And we can shoot up to two trophies per day.

Rifle and Bow hunting

Species available and trophy fees.

Baboon $150 (All costs are in U.S. dollars)
Blesbok $375
Blesbok 2nd $300
Blue Duiker $650 (special request only)
Black Wildebeest $1,000
Blue Wildebeest $1,000
Bushbuck (cape) $650
Bushpig $350
Burchell's zebra $1,450
Caracal $500 (daily rate for dog pack extra)
Giraffe $4,000
Grey Duiker $250
Gemsbok (limited) $1,300
Red Hartebeest $1,000
Impala $350
Impala 2nd $275
Jackal $150
Kudu (Eastern Cape) $1,200
Kudu (Eastern Cape)2nd $900
Nyala $2,600
Springbok (common) $275
Steenbok $325
Warthog $400
Warthog (non trophy) $150

Hopefully this is all . This is sort of a new concept in South Africa. For folks who want to hunt dangerous game like buffalo and jumbo .. Cam Greig in Cameroon can set up that kind of an unguided hunt. I have done that and it was wonderful ..

Now I would like to do the same in South Africa and would like some hunting partners ... people who want to hunt like we normally do for our elk and deer in Canada and the U.S. With out a guide ..

The man who is the brainchild here is John Coleman. I hunted lion and leopard with him a long time ago and he is as good as it gets when it comes to guiding but has long held the belief that not everyone needs a guide for plainsgame ..

Anyone want to go with an aging redneck from Canada ???

We can go any time .. might get wet in their summer, however ...

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by scruffy:
Yo !

I am looking for three hunting partners to do an unguided plainsgame hunt in the Eastern Cape, South Africa.

This is a hunt for the physically fit only ... and it is a hunt that is for experienced folks who don't do a lot of whining ...

This hunt is organized by John Coleman.

Limpopo Hunting Safaris
PO Box 287
Adelaide, 5760 Eastern Cape
South Africa

Mobile + 27 83 399 62228

E mail : coleman36458@gmail.com

My e mail is: Scruffy7@telus.net
My phone # is 1- 403 - 329-0904

Here is the scoop folks:

This is a good ranch hunt and supplied is all necessary camping gear and cooking utensils, a tracker and good natural animals for fair chase hunting. Salt is supplied for field treatment of skins and trophies.

We inform John of what food we desire and he will purchase it (at cost) before the hunt.

With the assistance of a tracker we can skin, butcher, and transport our trophy/meat to camp and look after ourselves.

A mobile phone will be provided for contact purposes.

We can hire a vehicle for access and pickup purposes. No shooting from a vehicle is allowed.

We will be on our own and will have to walk whilst hunting.

We will be met at the airport and taken to the hunting area and dropped off .. then collected when the hunt is over and returned to the airport.

After the hunt dipping, packing, permits and shipping of trophies will be at our cost.

6 people can be accomodated at the tent camp and there are flush toilets and bathing facilities.

*** We will be required to supply proof and references regarding our competence as a hunter.

*** There is a professional hunter in the area to cover regulations. For any wounded animal the professional hunter will assist in finding it for a fee of $200 a day. He will also fill in and submit all neccessary forms and obtain necessary permits.

A deposit of 50% of the daily rates is required at time of booking to confirm. The balance of the daily fees must be paid 30 days before the hunt commences. The trophy fees are paid on the last day of the hunt.

Dipping, packing, taxidermy fees etc. to be paid to the relevant persons concerned on request ... before shipping.

Fees Per Hunting Day

Daily rate per hunter: 2 hunters: per day each - $225... 3-4 hunters : per day each $200 ... 5-6 hunters : per day each $190 ..

Daily rate per non hunting companion : $100

Hire of vehicle per day (up to 100 km per day) if required : $100

Fuel at cost

Ammunition: at cost, if required.

Camp cook (if required) per day: $ 35

PH assistance (if required) per day: $200

Suggested tip to tracker: per day: $5
Worker per day: $3

(Any tips should be given to the tracker and camp worker with the employer present. )

Pick up and return to the nearest Port Elizabeth airport : per trip per party: $250

Trophy fees (killed or wounded) as follows ...

In the occasional event of any dangerous game being available to hunt ,, (i.e.) leopard of buffalo) a PH must accompany the client at all times while hunting these animals. A separate quote will be made at that time. (The law)

The hunt will be 7-10 days. And we can shoot up to two trophies per day.

Rifle and Bow hunting

Species available and trophy fees.

Baboon $150 (All costs are in U.S. dollars)
Blesbok $375
Blesbok 2nd $300
Blue Duiker $650 (special request only)
Black Wildebeest $1,000
Blue Wildebeest $1,000
Bushbuck (cape) $650
Bushpig $350
Burchell's zebra $1,450
Caracal $500 (daily rate for dog pack extra)
Giraffe $4,000
Grey Duiker $250
Gemsbok (limited) $1,300
Red Hartebeest $1,000
Impala $350
Impala 2nd $275
Jackal $150
Kudu (Eastern Cape) $1,200
Kudu (Eastern Cape)2nd $900
Nyala $2,600
Springbok (common) $275
Steenbok $325
Warthog $400
Warthog (non trophy) $150

Hopefully this is all . This is sort of a new concept in South Africa. For folks who want to hunt dangerous game like buffalo and jumbo .. Cam Greig in Cameroon can set up that kind of an unguided hunt. I have done that and it was wonderful ..

Now I would like to do the same in South Africa and would like some hunting partners ... people who want to hunt like we normally do for our elk and deer in Canada and the U.S. With out a guide ..

The man who is the brainchild here is John Coleman. I hunted lion and leopard with him a long time ago and he is as good as it gets when it comes to guiding but has long held the belief that not everyone needs a guide for plainsgame ..

Anyone want to go with an aging redneck from Canada ???

We can go any time .. might get wet in their summer, however ...

I don't have an EC game ordinance here so will check with PHASA tomorrow but most if not all provincial game ordinances require all overseas hunters to be accompanied at all times whilst in the bush. They also require a correctly licenced outfitter to do that end of the paperwork etc.

SA firearms laws require details of outfitter and details of where the hunt takes place.

Also, in those provinces where a PH is required: if an overseas hunter is caught hunting without a PH accompanying him, it's not impossible that poaching laws could be applied and if so the confiscation of all equipment used during the hunt would be the very least of the hunters worries.

I'm not 100% sure if it's legal in the EC but am 100% sure it's not in most others and "people who want to hunt like we normally do for our elk and deer in Canada and the U.S. With out a guide" would be well advised to check the provincial game laws before doing so.

Can I also ask if you're the appointed agent for this company?

Because if he's just a third party you're posting for or if you're just an individual looking for hunting partners, you might like to read Saeed's post at the head of this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
if you look at the total daily cost per hunter( food, vehicle, tracker fees, daily fees, etc.) it is MUCH cheaper to do a 2 on 1 guided hunt. not sure why anyone would want to do all the side work, in addition to work directly involved with hunting, just to say "i did it myself". if i wanted to cook, wash dishes, skin and butcher animal, fill out paperwork, etc., i can stay home for free. and i won't have to worry about breaking any laws. good luck on selling this concept- i think you have your work cut out for you at those prices.

quote:

Originally posted by scruffy:
Folks sure are quick to condemn ...

quote:

Originally posted by scruffy:
Folks sure are quick to condemn ...

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
"A PH shall at all times be present during the hunting of a wild animal by his client and shall supervise the hunting of such wild animal".

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Aaron,

One of the problems in all the acts is that they were often written by people who don't have English (or even American ) as their first language and therefore they often read slightly clumsily..... this is often compounded by the legalese.

The self guided thing is always difficult. Sure if you've got the right area and the right client then it would in theory be feasible but as I said, you need to allow for the lowest common denominator rather than the highest.

I'll give you a theoretical example of just how easily things can go wrong. Admittedly the first example is on DG but I'm sure you'll see the point I'm trying to make..... once upon a time in a land far, far away, a PH was hunting rhino in an unnamed province. The hunter was very wealthy, very experienced and very domineering. The client wounded the rhino and they lost the spoor.

Next step was to call in the chopper which was an R22 - 2 seater. The client wanted to go in the chopper to find his rhino and pressured the PH who I guess in a moment of madness said OK. You go and I'll wait here.

Off the client went in the chopper and they soon saw a rhino laying down. Instead of flying back to the PH and going in on foot, the client bullied the pilot to fly low so he could finish it off....... one shot, one dead rhino but the problem was that it was a different and unwounded rhino.

Who pays the trophy fees?

On the subject of the lowest common denominator, all kinds of things can happen such as someone forgetting to unload a rifle to playing with snakes in the mistaken belief that it's dead. (very common with puffadders) to trying to drive a borrowed 4x4 worth well over half a million rands into a river without checking the depth first.

All those very possible scenarios are just some of the many reasons why unaccompanied hunting is forbidden in most African countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Aaron,

One of the problems in all the acts is that they were often written by people who don't have English (or even American ) as their first language and therefore they often read slightly clumsily..... this is often compounded by the legalese.

The self guided thing is always difficult. Sure if you've got the right area and the right client then it would in theory be feasible but as I said, you need to allow for the lowest common denominator rather than the highest.

I'll give you a theoretical example of just how easily things can go wrong. Admittedly the first example is on DG but I'm sure you'll see the point I'm trying to make..... once upon a time in a land far, far away, a PH was hunting rhino in an unnamed province. The hunter was very wealthy, very experienced and very domineering. The client wounded the rhino and they lost the spoor.

Next step was to call in the chopper which was an R22 - 2 seater. The client wanted to go in the chopper to find his rhino and pressured the PH who I guess in a moment of madness said OK. You go and I'll wait here.

Off the client went in the chopper and they soon saw a rhino laying down. Instead of flying back to the PH and going in on foot, the client bullied the pilot to fly low so he could finish it off....... one shot, one dead rhino but the problem was that it was a different and unwounded rhino.

Who pays the trophy fees?

On the subject of the lowest common denominator, all kinds of things can happen such as someone forgetting to unload a rifle to playing with snakes in the mistaken belief that it's dead. (very common with puffadders) to trying to drive a borrowed 4x4 worth well over half a million rands into a river without checking the depth first.

All those very possible scenarios are just some of the many reasons why unaccompanied hunting is forbidden in most African countries.

Steve - In short, ya, ya, ya, I hear ya! But the fact is, we are not talking about Rhinos are anything else dangerous. So that scenario just doesn't jive.

Secondly, Steve I think guys in Africa tend to forget how EXPERIENCED many North American hunters are. Many us of hunt in MUCH more rugged terrain, much more dangerous elements, often many times further from a road or vehicle, than I have ever been in ALL of Africa, etc, etc, etc. We skin & cape ALL of our own game, we pack out (on our back) all of the trophy & meat, camp and hunt in MUCH more uncomfortable scenarios than anything I have ever experienced in Africa as well.

Fact is, I am talking about some plains game hunting on some private, high-fenced ranch in the eastern cape, that one couldn't get lost on, if you blind folded him. I'm simply saying if its illegal, then that's the fact. But it shouldn't be if everything is done on private land, with privately owned game, and certainly not because of the element of danger. My back yard is just as dangerous as the eastern cape, or most other places in SA for that matter.

quote:

On the subject of the lowest common denominator, all kinds of things can happen such as someone forgetting to unload a rifle to playing with snakes in the mistaken belief that it's dead. (very common with puffadders) to trying to drive a borrowed 4x4 worth well over half a million rands into a river without checking the depth first.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Aaron,

One of the problems in all the acts is that they were often written by people who don't have English (or even American ) as their first language and therefore they often read slightly clumsily..... this is often compounded by the legalese.

The self guided thing is always difficult. Sure if you've got the right area and the right client then it would in theory be feasible but as I said, you need to allow for the lowest common denominator rather than the highest.

I'll give you a theoretical example of just how easily things can go wrong. Admittedly the first example is on DG but I'm sure you'll see the point I'm trying to make..... once upon a time in a land far, far away, a PH was hunting rhino in an unnamed province. The hunter was very wealthy, very experienced and very domineering. The client wounded the rhino and they lost the spoor.

Next step was to call in the chopper which was an R22 - 2 seater. The client wanted to go in the chopper to find his rhino and pressured the PH who I guess in a moment of madness said OK. You go and I'll wait here.

Off the client went in the chopper and they soon saw a rhino laying down. Instead of flying back to the PH and going in on foot, the client bullied the pilot to fly low so he could finish it off....... one shot, one dead rhino but the problem was that it was a different and unwounded rhino.

Who pays the trophy fees?

On the subject of the lowest common denominator, all kinds of things can happen such as someone forgetting to unload a rifle to playing with snakes in the mistaken belief that it's dead. (very common with puffadders) to trying to drive a borrowed 4x4 worth well over half a million rands into a river without checking the depth first.

All those very possible scenarios are just some of the many reasons why unaccompanied hunting is forbidden in most African countries.

Steve - In short, ya, ya, ya, I hear ya! But the fact is, we are not talking about Rhinos are anything else dangerous. So that scenario just doesn't jive.

Secondly, Steve I think guys in Africa tend to forget how EXPERIENCED many North American hunters are. Many us of hunt in MUCH more rugged terrain, much more dangerous elements, often many times further from a road or vehicle, than I have ever been in ALL of Africa, etc, etc, etc. We skin & cape ALL of our own game, we pack out (on our back) all of the trophy & meat, camp and hunt in MUCH more uncomfortable scenarios than anything I have ever experienced in Africa as well.

Fact is, I am talking about some plains game hunting on some private, high-fenced ranch in the eastern cape, that one couldn't get lost on, if you blind folded him. I'm simply saying if its illegal, then that's the fact. But it shouldn't be if everything is done on private land, with privately owned game, and certainly not because of the element of danger. My back yard is just as dangerous as the eastern cape, or most other places in SA for that matter.

Everything you have mentioed might be true.

But, it still does not take into consideration that South Africa, as well as many other African countries, require a licenced PH to be present during the hunt.

I remember a while back someone posted offers of PAC hunts in Mozambique, and we had all sorts of arguments about it.

In the end it traspired that PAC hunts in Mozambique are illegal.

But the person offering them said something like "we know how to deal with this".

I would not, under any circumstances, hunt in any country where there is any question of my breaking the law.

It really is not worth it to spend time in a foreign jail.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
John Coleman mentioned this hunt to me and asked if I would be interested in hosting such hunters as he has hunted on my ranch for many years.
I could not do it and so did not go into the legality of it, but suffice to say that John is one of the most experienced and conscientious hunters in Africa today and I have no doubt that he did his homework.
Incidetally, if anyone has a day to spend in his company he has marvelous tales to tell of dangerous game hunting over numerous decades.
I repeat, though, that I do not know the technicalities involved in his offer.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I agree with Aaron that it would be desireable to have some do it on your own hunting in Africa. I would love to be able to try an elephant hunt on my own with a really good tracker. But that isn't legal in any country that I hunt and for the most part for very good reasons. Few of us could do that safely.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
well I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, and if they have I apologize for not seeing it.

But, if indeed you took this hunt without the presence of a PH, and it was discovered, you could in theory be prosecuted under the Lacy Act here in the USA by breaking the hunting laws of another country!!!!!

Scary stuff....