I just returned from a hunt in the Eastern Cape to find out one of our clients was detained by SAPS for 3 hours in Durban for having his locked ammo case locked inside his luggage. According to the Durban cops, it is a felony to pack the ammo case inside your luggage, and that the airline policy is incorrect. He had actually checked his bags and gone through security, and was pulled aside just before boarding his flight.

I am not sure if this was just a shakedown or if those guys were telling the truth, but Henry at Riflepermits.com and Linda Schrader at Falcon Travel are looking into this for me now. I'll post more when I get the details, but those of you traveling within South Africa should probably just check your ammo separately to be safe. I've had airline personnel ask me to do just for the most part over the last few years anyway.

Greg, in 08 traveling to and from Richards Bay my PH packed his in a seperate container and had all kinds of trouble. Mine was in my duffle seperate from the gun case and I said nothing about the ammo and I had no problems either way. As anyone here that has traveled in Africa very many times has learned to expect shit at any time, eh.

I was told I had to pack my ammo in my checked baggage separate from my guns in April went through joberg no problem. coming back from Uganda I was told at Entebbe that my ammo could not go in my packed luggage the ammo was place it the plane( i saw it loaded in a black plastic ammo box) thats the last time I ever saw it and Delta is and was useless in finding it or compensating me for my lose. The rules change depending on the airport and the agent that checks you in

I too ran into trouble in Durban in late July. British Airways said I needed the ammo locked in the gun case. When I went to check the guns the airport policy was for the ammo to be locked in my luggage. No police involvement, but it was frustrating to unpack - pack - unpack - pack moving the ammo around. At Durban most of the staff, airport and BAA, looked like "deer in the headlights" in regards to guns and ammo. I was glad I was prepared for both contingencies. So, I guess this is a long winded messaged of "be prepared."
In Joburg I was deemed over my weight limit, although had not been on my inbound flights, nor by BAA. Delta was the carrier.
Then my luggage took two days to find me at back home even though Delta's computer said it was at the airport when I arrived. I was happy the guns were safe and my cameras were in our carry-ons. It all worked out, but I don't travel all that much, especially with guns, so the anxiety level went up.
All connections and timing etc. went very smoothly, as did the gun permits, thanks to Steve Turner and Henry at RiflePermits.com, respectively.
Lou M

The new Durban airport is the biggest problem. The supervisor said they had to hire a whole bunch of new cops for the bigger facility and none of them knew what the hell was going on. My client came by to pay his balance today and said the supervisor was great and that once he showed up, he let the rookie cops know exactly how stupid they were. It didn't make the ordeal any less scary for him and his family, though.

quote:

In Joburg I was deemed over my weight limit, although had not been on my inbound flights, nor by BAA. Delta was the carrier.

You have to be careful about this. The weight limits for intra-African flights are much less than for international flights that pass through African countries. When we land at Jo'berg and overnight at the Afton, when we board the continuing flight the next day, they invariably tell us we're overweight. If your flight was booked from the states say to Namibia or Zim all at once, the Intl weight limit applies. You have to go to the Supervisor's office and he knows the deal. DON'T PAY the overweight charges.

Here is what Ann at Air-2000 had to say:

Yes this problem a has been rearing its ugly head a lot this year.

The Act is very clear as it says the ammo must be packed separately from the firearm and contained in a suitable locked container, but, there is an Airports Act that came out the begining of the year that is applicable to all airports. It says Firearms and amunition can only be handled by licenced personel.

It seems that some security persnel are taking advantage of the situation and once the passenger has checked in, they take time to find him and try to extort money form them.

Passengers need to find out if it a Police personel or a security agent talking to them.

So far PE and Durban have been the most trouble some spots for this.

Surely in due time it will be required at all aiports that ammo and guns be separate.

Regards

Ann

Biebs,
I think 40lbs is the limit on saa. I'n not sure of the other african airlines. But if you check all the way through you usually get by with it being 50lbs limits we have here

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
Here is what Ann at Air-2000 had to say:

Yes this problem a has been rearing its ugly head a lot this year.

The Act is very clear as it says the ammo must be packed separately from the firearm and contained in a suitable locked container, but, there is an Airports Act that came out the begining of the year that is applicable to all airports. It says Firearms and amunition can only be handled by licenced personel.

It seems that some security persnel are taking advantage of the situation and once the passenger has checked in, they take time to find him and try to extort money form them.

Passengers need to find out if it a Police personel or a security agent talking to them.

So far PE and Durban have been the most trouble some spots for this.

Surely in due time it will be required at all aiports that ammo and guns be separate.

Regards

Ann

I had essentially the same conversation with Ann before my trip in May of this year. And, as always, I followed her advice and had no issues whatever during my trip into JNB or on the in-Africa flights I had to take.

However, when I was departing JNB on my way home, the security guy tried his best to have me put my separate, locked, ammo case in my regular luggage. I argued that I didn't want the TSA regulated ammo hidden in the regular luggage where the explosives detectors would certainly pick it up and force opening of that luggage. He argued that the small ammo case would likely be lost in transit if I didn't follow his instructions. I said fine, we'll ship it separately and see what happens.

Rather than "lose" the ammo case, I gave him a small "tip" when we parted and both my guns and ammo showed up in Atlanta as it should have.

Conclusion: the problem exists in Jo'burg just as it does elsewhere in Africa and, while I hate to contribute to the problem by rewarding bad behavior, I'll probably continue to leave small "gratuities" as required to keep the wheels of progress greased. Fighting this problem has to be handled by folks like Ann that know their way around the management systems -- individual travelers can only play the cards they're dealt on each individual trip as best they can and hope for the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

In Joburg I was deemed over my weight limit, although had not been on my inbound flights, nor by BAA. Delta was the carrier.

You have to be careful about this. The weight limits for intra-African flights are much less than for international flights that pass through African countries. When we land at Jo'berg and overnight at the Afton, when we board the continuing flight the next day, they invariably tell us we're overweight. If your flight was booked from the states say to Namibia or Zim all at once, the Intl weight limit applies. You have to go to the Supervisor's office and he knows the deal. DON'T PAY the overweight charges.

You need Walter to sort this out for you.

We were at Vic Fall after our hunt. And we have to take a Comair flight from Vic Falls to Jo'berg, then a connecting Emirates flight back to Dubai.

We had First Class tckets from Jo'berg to Dubai, and Busness Class tickets from Vic Falls to Jo'berg.

At the check in counter, we noticed that each passenger was allowed 20 Kgs. Anything over was charged.

They had one of these large, seperate scales, with a very large dial above it.

Walter, just walked out of the airport, and came back with a stone, and put the stone under the scale.

After that every bag put on the scale weighed 16Kgs, regardless of its weight.

We got on the plane and headed home, wondering how long it would take before they realize they have been had

I am in Jburg now coming home. packed my ammo over and am coming home with it in a cabela's ammo box in my duffle. No problems at all. I think it is all about who is working on a given day...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We got on the plane and headed home, wondering how long it would take before they realize they have been had

A couple of years.

Question one

Weight limit of each baggage piece from USA to Johannesburg and return

Question two
Weight limit for each luggage piece from Johannesburg to Victoria Falls and return.

Question three

I will be traveling with a gun case and ammunition in which case do I need the ammunition, in the gun case or the checked luggage for both flights.


Thank You


THis is from SAA
Dear Larry Kolek

Question one

Free Baggage Allowance Piece Concept

Business Class:

2 pieces with 32kg (70lb) each and maximum dimensions of 158cm (62inches)

Economy Class:

2 pieces with 23kg (50lb) each and maximum dimension of 158cm (62inches) each .

Free Carry on Items.

In addition to the checked baggage allowance, each passenger may carry without additional charges hand baggage suitable for placement in the closed overhead rack or under the passenger’s seat with maximum dimensions of 55x40x10cm (22x15x8inches) maximum weight 8kg (18lb)

Question two

Free Baggage Allowance Weight Concept

First Class 40kg (88lb)

Business Class 30kg (66lg)

Economy Class 20kg (44lb)

Question three

Firearms may not be packed inside checked luggage and must therefore be packed in a appropriate lockable firearm container or case, separate from check luggage.

Ammunition must be separate from weapons and may be packed within checked luggage, but must be properly secured in an ammunition case or solid box. No ammunition may be packed loosely in checked baggage or within the same case as firearms.

Regards

South African Airways

Walter - Gotta love that guy. That stone trick was great.

quote:

coming back from Uganda I was told at Entebbe that my ammo could not go in my packed luggage the ammo was place it the plane( i saw it loaded in a black plastic ammo box) thats the last time I ever saw it and Delta is and was useless

And I flew in and out of Entebbe right before you each time WITH my ammo locked in a dry-box (TSA lock) and the dry-box packed INSIDE my duffel...NO problems...but I flew KLM???

it was the cop that checked my permits who demanded that I do it that way. I let Philippe know what happen he may have sorted the guy out

I just got back from hunting out of the East Cape. At the Port Elisabeth airport they did make me take my ammo case out of my luggage and check it separately. I was prepared for that by reading this site everyday. At the Joberg airport the police asked me why all of the hunters are checking the ammo. When I told them that the airport agents are making us do this they just laughed and said they didn't know what they are doing in PE. The police told me the ammo should be locked in the gun case which I told them is wrong for going into the US.

I really don't mind the ammo in a separate case or in the luggage or in the gun case, I would just like one set of rules that everyone knows. That is asking way too much.

quote:

Originally posted by SDR:
I just got back from hunting out of the East Cape. At the Port Elisabeth airport they did make me take my ammo case out of my luggage and check it separately. I was prepared for that by reading this site everyday. At the Joberg airport the police asked me why all of the hunters are checking the ammo. When I told them that the airport agents are making us do this they just laughed and said they didn't know what they are doing in PE. The police told me the ammo should be locked in the gun case which I told them is wrong for going into the US.

I really don't mind the ammo in a separate case or in the luggage or in the gun case, I would just like one set of rules that everyone knows. That is asking way too much.

Hey, you really don't want to take all the fun out of those African airline experiences.

I just returned from the Eastern Cape 2 days ago.

We were required to check our ammo in separately at the East London airport. My clothes bag was checked straight thru to Atlanta. Therefore, upon arrival in Joburg, once the guns were cleared by SAPS, we had to recheck the gun and ammo case via the Delta counter.

I was told by the Delta ticket agent, I had one of 3 options. The first was to surrender my ammo box the SAPS because it was not in my checked luggage. I stopped her right there and said that isn't right because my buddy just passed thru with his ammo box. She said that wasn't so because it must be in my luggage.

I responded, "Well, this is a piece of luggage and I want to check it."

She said, "No, it must be separate from the gun."

I said, "Why does it matter because it is separate from the gun. It is it's own piece of luggage."

She said, "No, I can't do that."

At that time, I pointed at my buddy and said, "He just did it."

She then discussed it with the other ticket agent working the Medallion/Business Class ticket lane.

The other lady said yes it was ok and it was all becausee of South African Airways.

Needless to say, I got my ammo case checked by itself separately to Atlanta which ended up arriving in Colorado Springs safe and sound.

There seems to be some confusion between law and airline regulations here.

The over riding law is the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act) which is/was adopted by the various countries back in about 19voetsak.

Those laws require that ammo be packed in either manufacturers packaging OR other container that ensures every round be kept separated from every other round. According to this act, ammo may be packed into either a hard or soft suitcase IF it is labelled correctly.

It should be noted that since 9/11 various countries, especially the USA have clouded the issue with a plethora or other laws etc but it doesn't alter the fact that the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods Act) is still the dominant act.

Different airlines also have their own regulations but these are regulations and not laws, however, it is their perogative to introduce them as long as they don't breach the aforementioned act (especially) with regard to safety issues.

Many airlines also have the requirement that ammo (in cases) be placed into a hard (often metal) lockable box. This requirement has been common for some years. As we'll appreciate, placing highly flammable material into a hard or metal box is actually dangerous because in effect, it creates a potentially explosive device.

Recently, many of the airlines have finally began to realise the stupidity of this requirement and are changing it to allow ammo in proper cases to be packed in with the firearms. Two recent converts are SAA and BA.

Therefore, it's advisable to check the current requirements with whatever airline you plan to be travelling with on their website and to print a copy of them and take them with you when you travel.

As for the cops who held the guys for a supposed breach of regulations. I can assure you that it was nothing more than a scam on the part of the cops and if someone will send me a PM or email with details of where and when it happened etc, I'll be very happy indeed to pass it all onto PHASA who will deal with the matter.

My advice would be to anyone who gets caught up in such an attempt that they pull out a cellphone and take a pic of the cops involved and make a not of their name. I've no doubt they'll immediately back down but again feel free to pass the info onto me or PHASA ASAP.

It should also be noted that many airline staff don't know which way is up with regard to these matters and that's another bloody good reason to print the rules and take them with you. If they continue to argue, don't be afraid to ask to see the duty manager etc.

ADDED

I should have mentioned the aforementioned act also stipulates a maximum of 5 kgs of ammo per passenger.

Before leaving for Africa a few weeks ago, TSA in Nashville advised us that in the future, our ammo was to be included INSIDE our locked gun cases. Meanwhile, we were allowed to leave with our ammo inside our check in luggage. Mind you, one of our guys had his in his rifle case.

Now, we get ready to leave for home (at Jo'burg) and the Delta counter agent made our one guy who had his ammo in his rifle case, go purchase a tackle box with a lock on it and put it inside his checked luggage. He produced a printed copy of the TSA article which describes that ammo should be in a locked gun case along with your gun(s). Delta/Jo'burg said that doesn't apply to THEIR rules. It delayed us for over an hour. Monkey Shines at its finest so caveat emptor! The left hand never knows what the right hand is doing.
LDK

quote:

Before leaving for Africa a few weeks ago, TSA in Nashville advised us that in the future, our ammo was to be included INSIDE our locked gun cases. Meanwhile, we were allowed to leave with our ammo inside our check in luggage. Mind you, one of our guys had his in his rifle case.

Now, we get ready to leave for home (at Jo'burg) and the Delta counter agent made our one guy who had his ammo in his rifle case, go purchase a tackle box with a lock on it and put it inside his checked luggage. He produced a printed copy of the TSA article which describes that ammo should be in a locked gun case along with your gun(s). Delta/Jo'burg said that doesn't apply to THEIR rules. It delayed us for over an hour. Monkey Shines at its finest so caveat emptor! The left hand never knows what the right hand is doing.

David, rule of thumb do what you are told from where you are departing from to SA but 99% of the time from Joburg your ammo must be in a seperate locked container seperate from your rifle. They dont' care how you fly in they just care how you fly out of here it doesnt make sense I know.

Despite the laws and rules, you will run into those who make up their own rules. Their rule applies because they are the ones enforcing it.

Roll with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
Despite the laws and rules, you will run into those who make up their own rules. Their rule applies because they are the ones enforcing it.

Roll with it.

Absolutely right.

The answer is to be flexible, smile, nod and do whatever the hell they want.

If they want it in a locked box and checked in separately, do it. If they want the ammo in the rifle case, do that and put the lockable box in you're suitcase and if they want the ammo in your suitcase, do that.

Seems to me that an increasing number of airlines are changing their minds on this on an almost daily basis and an awful lot depends of the individual check in idiot.... sorry, agent.

As Wendell said. roll with it.

One thing I did find useful on my last trip was I bought some MTN boxes that hold just 22 rounds per box and they're a lot easier to put in a variety of different locations than the 50 round boxes.

I just returned and the folks in Durban still don't have it right. The lady at the SAA desk insisted that I must put my ammo in my locked gun case. No amount of explaining that the ammo was in a separate locked case in a separate locked bag would suffice. She placed a call to her supervisor and was told the ammo needed to be in the gun case. When I delivered my gun to firearms officials they said the same thing.

The headaches arose in J'burg. Mainly because my duffle was checked all the way through to Atlanta and was not accessible. After about 3 phone calls and visits by 2 firearms officials they finally allowed me to check my separate ammo case to Atlanta. All 3 items showed up in Atlanta no problem.

No amount of debate will sway these people. They just won't have any of it. I know at least in the past Delta allows ammunition to be locked in with your firearm. They say otherwise and that SA mandates that ammunition be separate. However, Durban says otherwise. Just be prepared to deal with it. The only thing I should have done differently was to have my duffle checked through to J'burg rather than all the way to Atlanta. Since I had to collect my gun case and re-check it, I at least would have had it then so I could have transferred my ammunition.

what a clusterf)*(k

someone in RSA needs to take this to the minister of friggin police and get them to figure out what they want, once and for all.

I have experienced all 3 flavors:

1. Ammo in gun case (so the security people can verify/count it)
2. Ammo in separate bag
3. Ammo on its lonesome

quote:

I would just like one set of rules that everyone knows. That is asking way too much.

Yes, it is.

Ah the joys of africa

So what is the bottom line to avoid this inconvenience, 20, 50 100 Bucks, what?

quote:

Originally posted by SDR:
The police told me the ammo should be locked in the gun case which I told them is wrong for going into the US.

Where did you get this info, please? I'm looking at the TSA website this moment and the second bullet from the bottom of the list says (quoting)"You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above."

Can anyone comment (accurately) on this?

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

I would just like one set of rules that everyone knows. That is asking way too much.

Yes, it is.

If that were the case, what would become of bureaucracy?

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
packed my ammo over and am coming home with it in a cabela's ammo box in my duffle.

Tim - which box do you use? I know you are probably hunting/traveling so I look forward to your reply when you get a chance.

Scott

Scott:

I use a Pelican 1200 case (without foam lining) and it holds five 20 round boxes of .375H&H ammo perfectly. Remember that you are limited to 5 Kg's of loaded ammunition per person. 5 boxes of loaded .375 weigh slightly under 5 kg's. Total weight does not include the case.

This case can be locked and shipped on its own. Check out Midwestern Case co. for good Pelican deals.

RCG

PS. you can get it in a number of colors. I have bright yellow and it stands out on the luggage conveyor belt.

quote:

Originally posted by RCG:
Scott:

I use a Pelican 1200 case (without foam lining) and it holds five 20 round boxes of .375H&H ammo perfectly. Remember that you are limited to 5 Kg's of loaded ammunition per person. 5 boxes of loaded .375 weigh slightly under 5 kg's. Total weight does not include the case.

This case can be locked and shipped on its own. Check out Midwestern Case co. for good Pelican deals.

RCG

PS. you can get it in a number of colors. I have bright yellow and it stands out on the luggage conveyor belt.

Perfect!! I'll check out the Pelican cases and see which best suits my needs. I suppose I was worried about the small size getting lost as separate checked baggage and was hoping to put it in my duffel bag, locked of course, like Tim did with his.

Posted 11 October 2010 04:25 Hide Post
I posted this last night on the TSA locks thread.
As a side note. I flew to Zim last October and had my ammo in my duffle bag, thankfully in a hard sided pistol case. As I was going thru the check in in J'burg, the lady at the gate asked to check my ammo. I opened my duffle and she said I would have to check it in as another piece of luggage. Luckily, just luckily, I had locked it on a whim at home and put it in my duffle. Had it not been in a hard sided pistol case with a lock I might have had a real problem. Two times before, it went right on thru in my luggage.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Spencer:

quote:

Originally posted by RCG:
Scott:

I use a Pelican 1200 case (without foam lining) and it holds five 20 round boxes of .375H&H ammo perfectly. Remember that you are limited to 5 Kg's of loaded ammunition per person. 5 boxes of loaded .375 weigh slightly under 5 kg's. Total weight does not include the case.

This case can be locked and shipped on its own. Check out Midwestern Case co. for good Pelican deals.

RCG

PS. you can get it in a number of colors. I have bright yellow and it stands out on the luggage conveyor belt.

Perfect!! I'll check out the Pelican cases and see which best suits my needs. I suppose I was worried about the small size getting lost as separate checked baggage and was hoping to put it in my duffel bag, locked of course, like Tim did with his.

I know this is a little late and I am new to the site but, I used a standard pistol case I had. I don't know how much ammo you were taking but, I was able to fit two boxes of 30.06. The shortfall was I needed two locks to keep it totally secure. Minus that, no problems with security at both ends.

I always pack separately it better to be safe than sorry.

Just another example of governments around the world, taking our tax dollars to "keep us safe". Just wait until the TSA is union. That will make the whole journey exquisite.

Going on a plains game hunt in July. It seems to me that the issue is mainly in Africa on the return trip. Wouldn't it make sense to avoid the hassles at the counter by leaving the unused ammo in Africa? Am I a naive novice? Anybody have SAPS give you any trouble when you arrive?

I can't believe this thread is still going. Obviously, the inconsistency is still a problem.

txlonghorn - I always leave my ammo and case behind now. The case I buy at Academy only costs like $10, so it isn't worth the hassle or stress of bringing it back. The only exception is .470 Nitro - that comes back in a locked case inside my locked suitcase. Unless the idiots tell me to check it separately. Of course, I don't have any reason to go through Durban with my .470 either.