I know a lot of hunters are using services that specialize in "Meet and Greets" to help navigate the issues of importing a firearm though Jo'burg International.

As a person with Scots heritage, I hate to spend money on frivolities.

From what I've read, many people will pay $250.00 for a representative to meet them at the airport and help them with the SAPS form, fend off the aggressive porters, and escort them to the hotel.

I have traveled through Jo'burg twice, back in 2002 and 2003. Both times, I managed to get my gun through the police check and fend off the porters and make it safely to my hotel.

I was considering a buff hunt to Moz, but the outfitter was pretty adamant that I really needed to pay him $2000.00 to greet me in Jo-burg and then accompany me to Moz.

I decided not to book that hunt because I thought my chances of getting a really nice buff weren't that great, but in any event I would not have paid the outfitter a couple of grand to escort me.

I have a hunt in Zim set up for Sep, and although I have been offered a "meet and greet" by a local outfitter, I don't plan on using it.

So my question, is have things really gotten so bad, that the average American sportsman needs to pay somebody to hold their hands when traveling with a firearm though Jo'burg?

I am a very experienced traveler, having been to over 43 countries, so I really don't understand all the fuss over the importance of having a "meet and greet" escort?

BH63

I've done both. I've been through Johannesburg more times than I have fingers and toes.... I have never had a problem either way (at least with SAPS), but I can assure you, if traveling with a newbie, having the permit in hand upon arrival makes a big dent into their normal African angst. There are some other issues a "Meet and Greet" can help with discussed below.

There is plenty of information on the internet of how to download SAPS forms, fill them out, etc. You need letters of invite, form 4457 and some other stuff, of course, and if you feel comfortable (and would feel comfortable fixing an unforeseen problem at the SAPS counter), more power to you.

All that said, here are a couple of places where "Meet and Greet" come in handy:

Any airline connections that require a fast turnaround to another international flight, i.e., airlines that have no baggage agreement with each other so you have to quickly get permitted in South Africa and then tote your bags to another airline.... same thing if you're trying to catch a domestic flight with a short layover.

And if your guns didn't make the cross-the-pond flight... what do you do? Travel on to wherever or have an experienced "Meet and Greet" company get your guns on the next plane when they finally arrive or do you just stay in Johannesburg and miss your connections???? .... Afton Guest House has found my bags the next day and got them on to Zimbabwe for me twice, btw.

So... If I'm staying in South Africa and being picked up by my P.H. at the airport, no "Meet and Greet", but if I have a short domestic or international connection (with no checked-through baggage service), have my wife or an inexperienced traveler with me or if I'm going to another country to hunt, I pay the money for piece of mind.

BTW, most services are in the $100 to $300 range.

Finally, I've been on Delta 200 when 70 or so guys were trying to get SAPS permits at the same time. If you are approved and your "Greeter" knows his/her business, you'll get out of SAPS in a few minutes instead of several hours (particularly when some nimrods show up with no 4457's, autoloading rifles, two guns of the same caliber, etc.)

So... I'm going back to Zimbabwe in April. I'll be met by Afton Guest House coming out of customs, will be escorted over to SAPS, they'll have my permit in hand, I'll pick up my guns without hassle, go get supper and a good night's sleep, have a eggs and bacon breakfast and talk to other African pilgrims about their hunts (done or incipient), ride Afton's van back to JNB, meet their associate/porter at the airport who'll make sure there is no hassle with SAA for the flight up to Vic Falls or with checking my guns... and be relaxing on the booze cruise by nightfall.

I've traveled a fair amount as well but I use the meet and greet in JoBurg every time.

If everything goes smooth, you probably don't need it.

But if there is some hiccup I like having a contact on the ground who knows the airport personnel and can aid in navigating and solving any problems.

It's a level of comfort thing for me.

But to each their own.

I have only made two trips through JNB, one with and once without the meet and greet. I definitely recommend using it, for all the reasons listed above. It was a wonderful feeling to be able to cruise through the airport, all the way from the gate to the SAPS office to the car from the guest house without having to worry about a thing. Customs? We waived as we walked through. Immigration? The same. I would absolutely pay for it if I had a same-day connection to make in JNB. You save yourself hours of time and no end of worry. When my son and I go out in June, we will be using such a service.

My first time over was in 2013 and used the Africa Sky meet & greet
Was well worth the money. I think we spent about 5 minutes in the police station checking my gun and the SAPS. The chap from Africa Sky got us in and out in no time. The trip to Africa was about 10 minutes.
Next morning we were taken back to the airport and our chap stayed with us from check-in until the first check point.
One bit of advice; When you claim your bags and exit to go to the police station, don't make eye contact with anyone. A lot of people "Want To Help You". Just look for someone holding up a sign with your name on it.
When we came through, I did not make eye contact with anyone except the chap with my name. When we got to the police station, their were 2 persons behind us wanting a "Tip" for "Helping Us".

MauserK98

I have made at least 200 overseas trips on business and pleasure since 1996. I always use a meet and greet service other than a routine plane change.

Traveling with guns - use a meet and greet service... It is cheap and gets you through the mess quick.

Do not scrimp here. If in doubt, leave your guns at home and rent them. I do that most of the time now.

Not necessary until it is.

Went to RSA last Sept. with a friend on a plains game cull hunt. We had all the necessary paperwork including pre filled out SAPS forms, invitation letter, 4457's etc. When we got to JoBerg we didn't see our PH at the baggage claim area so we pickup up our bags and went to SAPS office for the guns. Only one other hunter was in the office and he had prearranged permits. He left with his permits shortly after we arrived. Almost immediately the women behind the counter started giving us a hard time.

First thing she said was our 4457 forms were expired. I informed her that these forms don't expire and are good for as long as you own the firearm. She didn't believe that and pointed to a form expiration date on the 4457 which was in 2013. She insisted the forms were expired. I then called her attention to the fact that the 4457 for one of my guns had an issue date in 2014 so the form couldn't have expired in 2013.

That caused her to change her tone and then said she needed something else other than the 4457 from US customs to prove we legally exported the guns from the US. When I told her nothing like that existed, other than the 4457, she just pointed to a sign on the wall with a phone number printed and said to call the number. She then crossed her arms, leaned back in her chair and refused to speak to us anymore. The interested thing was the sign said to report corruption to this number when obviously she was looking for a bribe.

About this time our PH showed up and tried to straighten things out. This women wasn't budging so the PH called the number on the sign and spoke to her supervisor. Some time later the supervisor arrived. At this point I offered to reimburse our PH for any bribe that was needed but he refused. He said if he paid this women now he'd have to give her a bribe every time he picked up a client.

Well the three of them (PH the saps women and her supervisor) went in a back room for quite some time. Eventually they came out and we got our permits without any bribe, but not after spending over two hours in the SAPS office. I don't know what would have happened if our PH wasn't there.

I fell that we were targeted for a bribe by this SAPS bitch because there were no other hunters in the SAPS office at the time.

quote:

Well the three of them (PH the saps women and her supervisor) went in a back room for quite some time. Eventually they came out and we got our permits without any bribe,

Really now ?

If spending money bothers you then don't use one. If uncertainty and standing in line bothers you, then use one. Totally worth the few bucks for me.

doubleboy

The PH had no reason to not disclose any bribes to me. I had already told him I'd reimburse him for any bribes he had to pay before they went into the back room but he insisted that we not going to pay any bribes. As I mentioned in my write up, he said he won't give them any $$ simply because they will expect the bribe every time he picks up a client.

They spent a long time in that private room. The PH told me the women who gave us such a hard time actually closed her eyes and took a nap while he was discussing the issue with her supervisor who finally relented and told her to issue the permits. My guess is he finally realized they weren't going to get paid and decided it just wasn't worth any more of his time.

I'm just posting this to show others what can happen. This was my 11th trip to Africa and I've never experienced anything like this before.

If I'm flying to somewhere other than RSA, I always take the early flight out of New York so I have time to make connections in Joberg and dont' have to deal with the SAPS corruption. If I ever hunt RSA again I'll use a permit service.

I use a meet and greet to get the pre-approved permits. I talked to a guy who was waiting at the SAPS office for his permit and he had already been there two hours while it took us 10 minutes.

It was huge for my trip. We were delayed about 4 hours in Dulles and missed out connection to Port Elizabeth. Our guy ( riflepermits.com), totally got our flight rebooked for the morning, had SAA comp our hotel and driver.

As it was my first time there, I did not want to chance anything. I can't imagine what they'd do to this "rich, white, American hunter" alone.

I've been thru Joburg 14 times and used a meet and greet (Air 2000) every time. I'm, pretty "thrifty" myself but consider this money well spent. I've seen first hand the misery dealt to two incoming hunters whose paperwork wasn't exactly right...I felt sorry for the guys and don't want to be on the receiving end of that sort of thing. If you have a connecting flight, most (if not all) of the services will take you to your connecting ticket agent and magically walk you around the ever present lines to the agent. Well worth the expense.

Been through J'Burg 3 times and used the service every time. Well worth it to me, and will use it again this August. OH, and Africa Sky rocks.

Thanks for all the great information. I may have to reconsider.

BH63

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
I've been thru Joburg 14 times and used a meet and greet (Air 2000) every time. I'm, pretty "thrifty" myself but consider this money well spent. I've seen first hand the misery dealt to two incoming hunters whose paperwork wasn't exactly right...I felt sorry for the guys and don't want to be on the receiving end of that sort of thing. If you have a connecting flight, most (if not all) of the services will take you to your connecting ticket agent and magically walk you around the ever present lines to the agent. Well worth the expense.

I agree, been there many times too and Air2000 has always done a great job.

My first and only trip so far, my PH met me coming out of customs with the permits in hand. Went into SAPS and within 10 minutes we were on our way. However, when hunt was over, we were dropped off outside terminal and left to fend for ourselves. Guy who hunted at lodge year before was with me and we managed to get through by ourselves. What I learned is to get someone there to help BOTH ways.
And for this and a lot of reasons, would not hunt with that PH again.

JudgeG points out if your bags don't make it, the service you arrange will get them there.

Ironically, my first trip to JNB was the first time I left North America; I didn't use that service, but COL Bill Williamson, god rest his soul, sent me a detailed letter telling me exactly what to do. Last time I used a service and will in June as well.

Labman, what you said makes sense.

Thanks.

Anything that makes your travelling through easier, is well worth the money.

Too bad we have to go through Jo'burg. I've been through there twice and did fine. But, I had paid for a transfer service. I saw others being hassled. Been through 30 countries and dislike the little I've seen in south Africa.

Did it the first two trips by myself (back in those days hunters routinely did so). The last 11 trips with a meet and greet. Well worth the money.

quote:

Anything that makes your travelling through easier, is well worth the money.

I also noticed SAA service went way down on my 2d trip back in 2003. The trip I made in 2002 had excellent service.

I wonder what SAAs service is like now?

BH63

We've flown SAA several times in past few years and they are a big step up from most airlines!

$250 is not a lot of money considering your overall investment.

I have been twice. Once with, once without.

If you have an Outfitter/PH that meets you at the airport, he should help you through this process. If they do not meet you (which I would avoid), I would use the service.

I have used them when I am doing something other than transiting. However, after my last trip to Zim, I am going to use them even if transiting.

We arrived in the RSA. Headed toward international transfers. I have done this many times without problems . However this time, there was an unbelievable line. I am talking a 2-3 hour wait. The meet and greet would have gotten us around that.

I am doing it every time from now on.

It is no longer 2003 or 2004. That was a lifetime ago for doing JNB with firearms. For 10 years I handled JNB on my own, but for the past 10 years plus I have used a service.

Can you still do it yourself...sure. Are you wise to do it yourself when a problem arises...no.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have used them when I am doing something other than transiting. However, after my last trip to Zim, I am going to use them even if transiting.

We arrived in the RSA. Headed toward international transfers. I have done this many times without problems . However this time, there was an unbelievable line. I am talking a 2-3 hour wait. The meet and greet would have gotten us around that.

I am doing it every time from now on.

I did not need anyone when transiting with baggage checked all the way to the final destination on a single ticket.I was wondering if you could still do this and if so why would you need anyone if you can?

On our last trip to Namibia (2014) we had to clear our rifles in Jo'berg before they got put on the flight to Windhoek. It was SAA to SAA with only a 3 hour layover.

Did they come out with a new rule where you have no choice but to claim your luggage upon entering SA even though you are transiting direct and your luggage would remain in transit?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I have used them when I am doing something other than transiting. However, after my last trip to Zim, I am going to use them even if transiting.

We arrived in the RSA. Headed toward international transfers. I have done this many times without problems . However this time, there was an unbelievable line. I am talking a 2-3 hour wait. The meet and greet would have gotten us around that.

I am doing it every time from now on.

I did not need anyone when transiting with baggage checked all the way to the final destination on a single ticket.I was wondering if you could still do this and if so why would you need anyone if you can?

George it is quite simple. There is a line one has to pass through before international transfers. They got around the line.

As has been said, the fee is well worth it in comparison to the cost of the trip.

Meet and greet is like a gun or a parachute. You don't need it until you need it. Then you REALLY need it. BTDT. Air 2000 stepped up big time for me in 2007. My Sharps rifle didn't arrive, and SAA said it wasn't in their system and they couldn't locate it. Air 2000 found it at the American Airlines terminal in Dallas where it had not been transferred to Delta for the flight to Atlanta in order to make the Atlanta/Joberg connection. Thanks to Air 2000, the rifle was located IN THE U.S. and delivered to me in Port Elizabeth. This absolutely saved my hunt, as using a loaner rifle was simply not an option.

Air 2000 gets my vote, and my money everytime.

Well, I guess I'm the only one that differs. 11 safaris and no meet and greet. I think it is easy. Any travel problems I have had have been resolved by my travel agent, Steve Turner. Once in country your PH or bed and board folks will run interference for you if neccessary.

Begno With your luck of not having any problems I would bet a lot of money on the super bowl Game

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Well, I guess I'm the only one that differs. 11 safaris and no meet and greet. I think it is easy. Any travel problems I have had have been resolved by my travel agent, Steve Turner. Once in country your PH or bed and board folks will run interference for you if neccessary.

I've done it both ways but will always use the service in the future. Compared to the rest of the money we spend on a trip it is hard to believe we are even having a discussion on it.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by DonW28:
Compared to the rest of the money we spend on a trip it is hard to believe we are even having a discussion on it.
Don

I personally have never understood that perspective.

IMO $250.00 dollars is still a lot of money, regardless of whether you are spending $10.00 or $100,000.00.

The value of $250.00 is totally independent of how much money you are spending on other things.

I have a few friends (very few ) who are multi-millionaires, one thing they all seem to have in common is that they don't spend a penny more then necessary.

BH63

If I was not into rifles and did not mind renting one or took a cheap one along I could not care less about such a service.However if you want to hunt with your rifle think of it as an insurance policy.