I was at a SCI dinner over the weekend and a Tufpak came up for auction. My table-mate said that he heard that TSA and/or airlines are no longer letting you pack cloths in the same case with a gun. Or letting you pack a gun case in a duffle or other bag. I have traveled for years with a Sauer 202 takedown in a small lockable hard case and then packed in a drop bottom duffle. I have also added a nice double rifle to my african battery. I now wish to get one of those short Tufpak to travel with. Is there any truth to this discussion.

No.

George

Like everthing else regarding travel to/fro Africa....things are never the same twice!

We normally travel on British Airways and have always put heavy clothing etc. in our Tuffpaks with our rifles. In 2010 BA at LAX made us take everything but the rifles out of our Tuffpaks. Their reasoning was they were complying with customs in Jo'burg.

We go to the airport prepared for a multitude of variables, we stay calm (I take a Zanax), and remain flexible.

Best regards, D. Nelson

Just another example of ignorant, untrained and power mad airline personnel. We can thank TSA for the airlines attitude regarding customers. It is not BA responsibility to enforce RSA customs, especially when they are incorrect.

I had a pimple faced TSA female tell me my Tuffpak was NOT a gun case. Her reason........

"It's not hard sided".


I hit the side of it as hard as I could and then asked to speak to her supervisor, who showed up told her to swipe the inside and leave me alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I had a pimple faced TSA female tell me my Tuffpak was NOT a gun case. Her reason........

"It's not hard sided".


I hit the side of it as hard as I could and then asked to speak to her supervisor, who showed up told her to swipe the inside and leave me alone.

LOL

A few weeks ago, as I removed the rifles from the soft case in the tuffpak, the Delta agent in Atlanta looked at me and said, "Oh, those have to be in a hard case!" I asked her what the big green thing was that I took them out of just a moment before. The dumb look turning to golly gee your right was priceless.

Makes you wonder where these TSA and US Customs "Einsteins" come from. . . .

Duckear
Did the LAX TSA guys let you pack anything else in the Tufpac with the soft side gun cases??
Sounds like it's still open for discussion.

I've been to Africa & back twice with my Tuffpak with any & everthing I could cram into it with zero problems.
I guess it just depends on how stupid or smart the agent is that your dealing with.

I'm taking one next year to either Zim or Moz and will be anxious to see the reaction. I will have the TSA and the official airlines rules and regulations on hand for the idiots at the airport.

quote:

Originally posted by mominer:
Duckear
Did the LAX TSA guys let you pack anything else in the Tufpac with the soft side gun cases??
Sounds like it's still open for discussion.

Yes.
It was Atlanta, not LAX.

I had a change of clothes for me and my son in addition to two rifles in Boyt cases in a Tuffsak in the Tuffpak.

That combo was one ounce shy of 50 pounds.

Only problem was with the Delta agent. TSA guy didn't seem to care. Swabbed the case, let me lock it back up and sent it on its way.



As an aside, on the return, when claiming the Tuffpak in Atlanta, there was a 50-50 mix of Tuffpaks vs 'traditional' rifle cases among the other cases. 4 tuffpaks, two browning/pelican looking cases, and two aluminum cases IIRC.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
As an aside, on the return, when claiming the Tuffpak in Atlanta, there was a 50-50 mix of Tuffpaks vs 'traditional' rifle cases among the other cases. 4 tuffpaks, two browning/pelican looking cases, and two aluminum cases IIRC.

Which demonstrates that 50% of african hunters understand the dynamics of international travel with firearms and current weight restrictions and are smart enough to use the TuffPak. The other 50%, not so much.

This sounds like a resent development. I don't head to Moz until September. So, I will pose the question again as the safari season kicks off here and progresses the next few weeks.

Well, call me stupid. I have had the same aluminum case for almost 20 years and have never had an issue. I pack only my guns in it.

I once had TSA guys cut my locks off while flying in from Canada. I wouldn't trust them to "pad" my guns properly in a Tuffpak. And when TSA inspects your rifle, they don't always let you touch it - or even see it.

As for the weight, I never come close to having a bag weigh 50 lbs. You don't need it for Africa and you have weight limits in bush planes.

They, as in nobody, can CUT the locks off of the Tuff Pak, period. Just another reason to use one as opposed to those other so called bullet proof metal cases. No need to worry about TSA or anyone else repacking you guns as they cannot get into it without YOUR key.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Well, call me stupid. I have had the same aluminum case for almost 20 years and have never had an issue. I pack only my guns in it.

I once had TSA guys cut my locks off while flying in from Canada. I wouldn't trust them to "pad" my guns properly in a Tuffpak. And when TSA inspects your rifle, they don't always let you touch it - or even see it.

As for the weight, I never come close to having a bag weigh 50 lbs. You don't need it for Africa and you have weight limits in bush planes.

Larry:

If TSA wants to get in your gun case, they will do one of two things if you don't respond to the page: they will cut it, or it won't fly.

Do you seriously think if they feel they need to get in it they will just shrug their shoulders and let it fly?

One lesson I have learned: put nothing in the case but guns and the odds of TSA needing to inspect it go down big time.

Last year I was paged after I checked my gun. I was told the TSA wanted to inspect my case. I was not allowed to go with the airline employee; instead, I had to give her the keys. She gave them back to me at the gate. My guns were fine. But I wouldn't trust TSA to pack my underwear around my guns as proper protection.

I know a lot of you guys love TuffPaks. What stuns me is no one else has created a competitive offering. What are you buying? Injection molded plastic and some wheels. How much should that cost? The profit margin on TuffPaks has got to be 75%.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Last year I was paged after I checked my gun. I was told the TSA wanted to inspect my case.

Are you saying you checked your gun at the ticket counter and did not personally take it to TSA?

IMHO that's not a good idea. You get called 100% of the time because TSA WILL inspect it and they can not open the lock since it's non-TSA. I take the case to the ticket counter have them affix the flight tag and then physically take it to TSA, unlock it for them to swipe, watch what they do, and relock it. I DO NOT hand my key to anyone and no one gets into my gun case without my presence.

If someone says anything different politely ask for the next in command.

AZ, Frosbit is correct. You should never leave the ticket counter until it has been confirmed by TSA right then and there that all is OK. Period. No paging, no misunderstandings, no need whatsoever for anyone to take the locks off your case by force. This is a simple proceedure that should always be followed no matter what type of case you have containg firearms. Have never had a single issue when using this method.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

My method of flying with firearms is as follows, and since I have followed it, it has always worked. Here in Las Vegas, when I check in with firearms, I of course go through the standard procedures required in identifying that I am flying with firearms, fill out the appropriate firearms declaration card, place it in the Tuff Pak, etc. I then request the ticket agent take my Tuff Pak key with him or her as they take the Tuff Pak back to the TSA location (behind closed doors), in order to determine if they will need to open the Tuff Pak to inspect my firearms. They almost always want to do so, and the ticket agent has the key right then and there to allow them to do their inspection. The ticket agent subsequently returns with my key and tells me that it has been inspected and everything is fine, or that TSA chose not to inspect the Tuff Pak. I then go on my merry way to the gate, relaxed and without worrying over a potential inspection of my firearms. This also prevents me from having to run back to the ticket counter if and when my name is paged in order to have my Tuff Pak inspected. I have had to do that on a couple of occasions before I wised up, and it wasn't much fun. I don't really care if they inspect it every time, and in fact, this procedure almost guarantees that they will do so. I do care, however, that my firearms fly with me on Safari. As an aside, when I have just stood there to wait to see what the outcome will be (inspection or no inspection), without handing the key to the ticket agent, invariably they come back and say that TSA needs my key to inspect the firearms. So, that is why I just give the key to the ticket agent right off the bat as they take the Tuff Pak back to the TSA location. This way, everyone remains happy and relaxed. By the way, here in Vegas you do not take your Tuff Pak directly to TSA. That is done by the ticket agent only. And you are not present during the inspection.

I do the same as you UEG. Give them the key and wait. It's also the same here in Omaha, TSA is behind closed doors.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Last year I was paged after I checked my gun. I was told the TSA wanted to inspect my case.

Are you saying you checked your gun at the ticket counter and did not personally take it to TSA?

IMHO that's not a good idea. You get called 100% of the time because TSA WILL inspect it and they can not open the lock since it's non-TSA. I take the case to the ticket counter have them affix the flight tag and then physically take it to TSA, unlock it for them to swipe, watch what they do, and relock it. I DO NOT hand my key to anyone and no one gets into my gun case without my presence.

If someone says anything different politely ask for the next in command.

'

Guys, trust me, I fly as much you do with guns.

In the episode where I was paged, they had already told me to go through security. I was then paged. There are lots of TSA inspection sites where you are not allowed to go, and even if you can watch, most do not allow you to touch the stuff they are inspecting. In this case, the public was not allowed. I think it was the new Panama City airport in FL.

Sometimes TSA will let you put the locks back on. But sometimes they insist you don't touch it.

The trip back from Canada was a bit different. You clear Customs in Canada in most Canadian cities. TSA is not there to inspect your guns. But they may want to see them when you land in your connecting city. If you don't hear the page, they will go in your gun case. In my case, they replaced my cut locks with TSA locks.

I now fly with four locks on my old fashioned aluminum case: two heavy duty private locks, and two TSA locks. That way if they cut my locks off, I still have the TSA locks. Try that with a TuffPak.

Finally, let me say this: since I started flying with nothing but my guns in my gun case, I almost am never asked to open the case. Again, you can't do that with a TuffPak.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:


As for the weight, I never come close to having a bag weigh 50 lbs. You don't need it for Africa and you have weight limits in bush planes.

Two scoped rifles in two soft cases in a hard case are over 40 lbs 95% of the time. Add a spare set of hunting clothes in case the main bag gets lost and you are bumping 50#. (Remember, this is two rifles and two sets of clothes for two hunters, not one.)

But I agree in that I can live a long long time on the road out of a 20-25# bag if packing for just myself.

A couple of things here that everybody should be aware of. First if you think you've got the traveling with guns thing figured out you have not. What D.Nelson said is only too true. "We go to the airport prepared for a multitude of variables, we stay calm (I take a Zanax), and remain flexible."

Another thing as AAW wrote there are airports where you never see the guns when they are being inspected. Hard telling how they are being repacked regardless of your type of case. Also now some airports are just x-raying the case and if all looks fine to the TSA folks you never see the guns until you arrive at your destination. This is what happened on my last domestic hunt coming and going.

Know the regs but be prepared for anything and never think you have all the scenarios memorized.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by BOWHUNR:
I do the same as you UEG. Give them the key and wait. It's also the same here in Omaha, TSA is behind closed doors.

Mike

Whenever I fly out of Omaha they take me in the back to inspect the case, keys never leave my hands.

Having flown to Jo'burg several times through both Washington Dulles and JFK, I know the routine pretty well - and never an issue with a my Tuffpak stuffed with two rifles in soft cases and lots of light but cushiony clothes (e.g., sweaters, socks, etc.), keeping the weight a tad below 44 pounds.

This summer I'll be flying out of, and returning to, Atlanta flying on Delta for the first time to South Africa. Any insights on how the airline/TSA inspection process works going out of there? Any issues clearing customs on the return? I can't imagine it's as easy as Dulles (where the TSA inspection point is about 50m from the ticketing counter and Customs is pretty laid back regarding firearms), but I'm hoping ...

KPete
My only issue with customs on return to Atl. is that just because you were there before someone else or a whole bunch of someone elses, they just seem to check you through at random.
Other than that, they've always been nice to me.

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with AnotherAZWriter on this. My brother had his bolt rifle broken in half inside a TuffPack on his first African safari. We suspect that the TSA inspector, when trying to shove his rifle back into the soft case inside the Tuffpack, twisted and put too much torque on the buttstock and broke it. We didn't know it until we arrived in ATL to overnight on our way to JoBurg.

OK, I understand the concept of a TuffPack - you can put your gun AND clothes inside the same case. But until TuffPack or someone else makes one that opens like a clamshell, I won't buy one (I don't know why they haven't done this yet). I don't like shoving my rifle and gear and clothes down a 12" diameter hole. I've taken many soft rifle cases and given them as gifts to several of my PH friends, so they always have plenty of them to lend me and I don't need to waste space taking one. I have always used a Redhead heavy duty aluminum 2 rifle case with wheels, and it has worked perfectly for me.

It has been my experience that TSA agents do NOT like TuffPacks, because the guns are a pain to get to. I just wish someone made a TuffPack-type case that opened like a clamshell instead of like a golf hardcase. Then I would probably buy one. I know that most of the guys here swear by their TuffPacks, but I'm not one of them.

Broke the stock trying to shove it in the Tuff Pack ?!? What were they using a forklift ???

I have to say, all the accolades for the TuffPack from so many people caught my attention awhile back. But the more I read about them, the less I wanted to go through the hassel of pulling everything out and stuffing it back in whenever the goons want to inspect my rifles. Even with the duffel bag that goes inside the shell. It just seems like a huge inconvenience to me. Add in the ambiguity of what can and cannot be placed in the same case as guns once you reach the airport and I'm out!

I'll stick with the standard aluminum two gun case that can be easily opened for inspection and closed without worry about how the TSA agent stuffed everything back in. Nothing but guns in the case makes for easy inspection and no questions as to compliance with the rules.

I know this is minority opinion here but I've given it a lot of thought. No TuffPack for me!

Todd, I am in the same place. Particularly if you take a double that needs to be broken down for packing. To have them pull out a short take down case and get everything back in, just too many variables to assume that goes without a hitch. My Kalispel case is something easy for them to get into and get everything back to where it belongs.