I've seen several posts lately from hunters in the USA that are using British Air and going through London. I always thought this was a no/no due to the bunny huggers / anti gun attitudes resulting in lost or damaged guns more often than other travel options. I also thought there are numerous additional paperwork (read PERMIT) hassels involved with travel through London for the hunter carrying his own weapons.

Am I wrong on this? I've seen a few flight itineraries that would be easier than the Delta or SAA offerings on occasion but I always just brushed past them thinking it wasn't worth the hassel.

Opinions?

If you can check your gun from your US airport all the way through to Africa then going through London is no issue. If you have to recheck your firearm in London then there is more hassle. If you have to change airports in London (Heathrow to Gatwick, etc,) then it's an expensive nightmare,

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
If you can check your gun from your US airport all the way through to Africa then going through London is no issue. If you have to recheck your firearm in London then there is more hassle. If you have to change airports in London (Heathrow to Gatwick, etc,) then it's an expensive nightmare,

But even with checking the guns all the way through, I've heard of horror stories of guns turning up broken or missing due to bag handler anti's in London. Of course, this could be a bunch of untrue crap. That's the purpose of my post. Is this a real concern or no?

My experience flying with guns on British Airways from Texas to Zambia has been very positive, and the Zambian outfitter I work for recommends BA to its American clients. The important thing is to check all the way through, I think. BA does charge an extra fee for the third party gun handlers at Heathrow, but things tend to get handled the right way. Nothing is broken, and things are only very rarely delayed. Other than paying the fee, one merely has to properly notify BA of the intention to travel with firearms, at least 72 hrs before flying, and there is a simple form to fill out at the check-in counter. It's easy.

I think you're much more likely to have problems flying through Johannesburg--with any airline. I'd certainly rather have a nervous Brit (one whose specific contract is for handling guns) handling my stuff than the random thieves in the Jo-burg airport. Also, Terminal 5 at LHR is fairly nice, and I've always had good luck with BA's food and service in the air--and I fly economy class.

The same stories about anti-hunter baggage handlers damaging/misrouting firearms has been told about every major airport in Europe (Frankfort, Zurich, Amsterdam, etc., along with Dulles, Kennedy, et al.) When a gun gets damaged or doesn't show up on the flight it is supposed to, someone always blames some underground network of the Secret Brotherhood of Animal Rights Baggage Handlers.

The truth is that guns get misrouted or damaged at about the same rate as other luggage (or perhaps a little less since supervising authorities are more watchful for pilferage when firearms are potentially involved.) Baggage handlers are humping to make transfers on time and have little time to "play politics" as they toss tons of baggage from one conveyor belt to another.

The bottom line is I wouldn't worry any more about Heathrow than any other airport. In terms of pilferage, I don't think there is any question that JNB is terrible in this regard, but firearms are much less likely to be tampered with than ordinary baggage where the thief can sell a camera, computer, or binoculars on the street without so much as a sideways glance from police.

Sounds like nonsense to me.

Firearms are not handled by regular baggage handlers in the UK but by a small group of licensed firearms handlers.

I find it very unlikely that they would intentionally vandalise a firearm as the likelyhood of comeback would be pretty high as there are very few of them and their signature would be all over the paperwork.

They are still useless though! One of them knocked my case over before I had even left the firearm area.

Done it twice without the slighest problem

Todd,

The vast majority of people who have used BA for their safaris have had a very positive experience. I've used them about a dozen times myself and recommend them to clients. I have seen no evidence of a anti gun anti hunting attitaude with BA or in Gatwick or Heathrow.

Call Shawn Kennedy at Gracy Travel and see what airline she recommends for the best chance of a seamless trip to Africa.

BA actually puts guns and ammo in a hold in the plane seperate from the other luggage and a designated person puts the guns on the plane and takes them off. With this procedure it is highly unlikely you'll arrive without your guns and luggage.

There is no way on any airline to avoid that uninformed counter person that is nervous about procedures with guns. I think that nervousness gets wrongly interpreted as a anti gun or hunting attitude.

Mark

On my trip in 2010 on BA we had 1st class mileage tickets and after we boarded in Heathrow and I put my Jammies on a man in an orange vest came up to me and asked if I was traveling with guns. I answered that I had a "sporting arm". He asked me to come with him in my jammies and slippers and we went out a security door onto the tarmack below the 747. There sat my Tuffpak and ammo case. He asked me to identify them which I did. He thanked me and loaded them in front of me then took me back to 1 st class.

The counter person in Seattle had put a dozen staples through the bar code and he scanner would not read it.

BA is very good with firearms.

quote:

BA is very good with firearms.

Yes they are not bad but charge you £50 per flight per firearm

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Todd,

The vast majority of people who have used BA for their safaris have had a very positive experience. I've used them about a dozen times myself and recommend them to clients. I have seen no evidence of a anti gun anti hunting attitaude with BA or in Gatwick or Heathrow.

Call Shawn Kennedy at Gracy Travel and see what airline she recommends for the best chance of a seamless trip to Africa.

BA actually puts guns and ammo in a hold in the plane seperate from the other luggage and a designated person puts the guns on the plane and takes them off. With this procedure it is highly unlikely you'll arrive without your guns and luggage.

There is no way on any airline to avoid that uninformed counter person that is nervous about procedures with guns. I think that nervousness gets wrongly interpreted as a anti gun or hunting attitude.

Mark

Well this is all good to know. I've always taken SAA or Delta (preferred) and so far have had no issues as my guns have always arrived both going and coming (touch wood). Mark, I've used Shawn at Gracy 3 times now and she has specifically told me to avoid BA. It's one of the reasons I started this thread as I've heard so many horror stories about BA and London. Being a former Airline Pilot who flew international routes extensively, I heard most of these stories through the industry.

But one of the good things about AR is there are fellows with the actual experience, not just rumors. So I appreciate the input and may give BA a second look this October as I haven't purchased my flight tickets yet.

Todd,

That's interesting because Shawn and I have agreed many times that if you want to get there with your guns and luggage that BA does a great job. There is always a fairly long layover in London but other than that Ican't think of anything that might be a problem.

Mark

I have flown once through Heathrow enroute to S Africa, no problems. 2 years ago, I discovered that you cannot book your firearms all the way through to Mozambique because of an embargo they have imposed. Had to change my travel plans and re route. I personally called Customs and the Law enforcement agencies in London to make sure and they told me that if the weapons were marked with a final destination of Moz, they would be confiscated and I would be placed in the crossbar hotel at their convenience. That is the only downside I saw.

Todd,

I spoke to Shawn this AM. She didn't recall talking to you specifically about BA but thought if she said anything negative about BA it would have been that they require you to physically check your bags onto the BA flight. You can't check you bags all the way through to Africa from your city of origin. I actually think this is a great idea as I think receiving your bags in O.R. Tembo and rechecking them to Zim is a great idea. This allows you to know where your luggage is all the time.

BA has more regulations as far as guns go but rather than these regs being in place to make travel with guns more difficult they actually increase the chance of you arriving with all your kit.

Mark

I have never had any issues with BA's handling of my firearms.

That includes when I've gone to and through London and other UK airports, whether for hunting in the UK or transiting through the UK to African destinations.

In fact, BA have always gone out of their way to assure me that all would be well with my firearms, and they have always been as good as their word.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Todd,

I spoke to Shawn this AM. She didn't recall talking to you specifically about BA but thought if she said anything negative about BA it would have been that they require you to physically check your bags onto the BA flight. You can't check you bags all the way through to Africa from your city of origin. I actually think this is a great idea as I think receiving your bags in O.R. Tembo and rechecking them to Zim is a great idea. This allows you to know where your luggage is all the time.

BA has more regulations as far as guns go but rather than these regs being in place to make travel with guns more difficult they actually increase the chance of you arriving with all your kit.

Mark

Mark, it's possible the conversation was centered on not using BA because of the final destination being Zim and the issue of checking bags all the way through. That would make sense. I agree with you about receiving the bags and rifles in JNB and then rechecking them on to Zim. Shawn has recommended I overnight at the JNB airport hotel, receive the weapons, then recheck and proceed to HRE the following morning. That's the way she set it up for me in Oct. 10 and Jun. 11 and as previously stated, everything made it. In all honesty, by that time, I'm ready to be off a plane for a good sleep anyway and arriving in Zim the next morning isn't a bad way to go.

But it is good to know that BA is a viable option. As stated, in the past, I always disregarded them automatically. It's good to learn something new.

My clients have only had positive things to say about BA.

Don't whatever you do book a flight with American Airlines that transits through a UK airport:

quote:

Firearms of any type are not accepted as checked or carry-on baggage for travel to / from / connecting / transiting through the U.K. The only exception to this is for military / government personnel with proper documentation.

American Airlines

As far as damage to firearms goes, sitting watching the little "baggage trains" charging round Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta last month was an education: On five occasions that I personally witnessed, these "baggage trains" shed several pieces of luggage onto the concrete due to poor loading &/or excessive speed whilst cornering.
This kind of careless handling appears to be routine by going by the response of the handlers & their throwing of these items back onto the trailers.

I am scheduled to go to RSA August 12 -
BA going Phx to London, London to JHB.
BUT return JHB to London, BA, London home, AA.
May just forget taking the rifle I was planning on.

I would think this is an issue SCI could be/should be a help with to clarify these issues. Many bucks spent on these flights.
I may contact a board member...

Gracy Travel hooked me up with a flight through BA into Joberg. We stop in London on the way through. I have confidence Gracy knows what is the best way or they would not have booked me with them.

on the other end of things if you do get screwedis there any compensation from the booking agency?

quote:

Originally posted by nube:
Gracy Travel hooked me up with a flight through BA into Joberg. We stop in London on the way through. I have confidence Gracy knows what is the best way or they would not have booked me with them.

on the other end of things if you do get screwedis there any compensation from the booking agency?

yes- you get a nice condolences card