quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

quote:

Regardless of whether you make each part or use ready made parts, the final product is still an assembly of parts.

If that's the case then why do anything to your rifles, why didn't you just buy factory ready and leave it that way?

I don't need millions of dollars of equipment to produce a better product, I just need time. I can produce better tolerances with smoke fitting by hand that even a cnc machine can't reproduce.

I don't know of any factory ready rifles that turn my crank.

Why would someone do custom work on his truck or car?

No one that I know of makes a car or truck to drive from scratch. They buy a ready made something then customize it.

With rifles, for example, there are many guys who want their factory rifles improved in various ways; probably a lot more of us than those who want a rifle made from scratch.

With all that I now know, if I wanted a bolt action rifle made from scratch, I would start with one of the Mod 700 clone actions, and direct the gunsmith from that starting point, assembling parts, hand fitted.

If I wanted a semi-auto, I would have an AR-15 or AR-10 custom assembled from parts.

At this point I have enough rifles.

KB

quote:

Let's not let my mistake of info distract from the point, which is Cowboy says he makes his custom guns from scratch, and the finished product is not an assembly of parts, which sets his product at a higher value, and his customers are willing to pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

I noticed you didn't respond to the rest of my post, how selective of you.

Colin

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH !!!
Will the moderators please step in and delete this entire thread for me.
David L Wesbrook

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But the fact that you keep comparing [custom vehicles to custom firearms] does give some glimpses into your mentality of the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

But the fact that you keep comparing [custom vehicles to custom firearms] does give some glimpses into your mentality of the subject.

Just curious....

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/4181006791

What mentality would that be?

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH !!!
Will the moderators please step in and delete this entire thread for me.
David L Wesbrook

quote:

After slogging through 4 pages of this, it pains me to say that I have to agree with KB; this is indeed a discussion forum, and if you're going to put it out there, then you are going to accept that it is open to criticism, as long as that criticism is at least somewhat valid.

KB's opening post on this thread enumerated what he considered to be valid criticisms; rather than engaging him on those criticisms, several chose to make personal attacks, which were what led to the downward spiral of the thread.

Believe me, it's not that I enjoy agreeing with him, but he's right. The mud-slinging did not start with him and the blame for the piss in the punchbowl resides with those who chose to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

But the fact that you keep comparing [custom vehicles to custom firearms] does give some glimpses into your mentality of the subject.

Just curious....

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/4181006791

What mentality would that be?

Sorry maybe I wasn't very clear about that statement, I was referring to his earlier post about the $7000 used pick-up and buying 5 of them.

It's true that a used pick-up and a fully restored classic or custom will both get you from point a to point b but there is a world of difference between the two. Of course if you live in the right area a Bus will get you from point a to point b, but I wouldn't get on one of those either.

Both of my Trucks were built in the 1950's(one that needs restored and one that is a custom chopped, lowered, SBC, etc.) so I prefer the classics/customs in trucks as well as my rifles.

Colin

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I suggest that you can't interpret my mentality, because you don't understand it.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

quote:

I suggest that you can't interpret my mentality, because you don't understand it.

I've read several thousand of your posts, so either...
A) you are honest and sincere in what you post on this forum and I do have a good understanding based on what you have posted.

OR

B) You've been dishonest in your posts here, in which case that shows it's own mentality.

Either you believe what you post and are honest or you are lying for one reason or another in the statements you make...I don't even need to know which it is, either one tells me about you.

BTW I didn't mine the ore but a blacksmith friend and I smelted raw ore that he had delivered then we hand forged an iron pistol barrel, it was a great collaboration for both of us. I learned the smelting and forging process and he learned barrel making. It was a fun project.

If it makes you feel like you have won some point or superior in some way go ahead call it just an assembly of parts. Just to make it easy on you I'll agree that every custom Gun Maker is just a parts assembler in the same way that every surgeon is just a glorified butcher.

Colin

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

Again, I say that you can't interpret my mentality because you don't understand me, and now additionally you embellish what I say with your own mentality.


BTW, thanks for reading my posts. I have a lot of catching up to do to read yours. I'm going for 10,000. Try to keep up.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

I've read several thousand of your posts

KB

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

BTW, post count means nothing to me. I've seen more than a few on here who had 20,000+ posts but everything they said was mindless regurgitated dribble.

Colin

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Originally posted by CowboyCS:

Enlighten me then, what did I embellish?

Colin

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Originally posted by CowboyCS:
Just to make it easy on you I'll agree that every custom Gun Maker is just a parts assembler in the same way that every surgeon is just a glorified butcher.

Colin

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Aren't all rifles an assembly of pieces? The difference in a factory rifle and a custom is merely the care, attention to detail, and skill, and personal hands on from a gunsmith.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Aren't all rifles an assembly of pieces?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:
NO, they aren't all assembled from pieces.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:
Just to make it easy on you I'll agree that every custom Gun Maker is just a parts assembler in the same way that every surgeon is just a glorified butcher.

Colin

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:

BTW, post count means nothing to me. I've seen more than a few on here who had 20,000+ posts but everything they said was mindless regurgitated dribble.

Colin

Well thanks for reading thousands of my posts. Either you have a lot of spare time or my posts mean something to you.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Awh crap, it's getting late and isolating all these quotes is mistake prone when I'm tired. I accidentally deleted one of my posts, which captured something you wrote, and which I think you have deleted.

Changed your mind? Did you get a taste of crow, and decide I was about to feed it to you?

But I did capture these quotes:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Aren't all rifles an assembly of pieces?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:
NO, they aren't all assembled from pieces.

quote:

Originally posted by CowboyCS:
Just to make it easy on you I'll agree that every custom Gun Maker is just a parts assembler in the same way that every surgeon is just a glorified butcher.

Colin

quote:

BTW I didn't mine the ore but a blacksmith friend and I smelted raw ore that he had delivered then we hand forged an iron pistol barrel, it was a great collaboration for both of us. I learned the smelting and forging process and he learned barrel making. It was a fun project.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

BTW I didn't mine the ore but a blacksmith friend and I smelted raw ore that he had delivered then we hand forged an iron pistol barrel, it was a great collaboration for both of us. I learned the smelting and forging process and he learned barrel making. It was a fun project.

all arguments aside, that's pretty cool!

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

BTW I didn't mine the ore but a blacksmith friend and I smelted raw ore that he had delivered then we hand forged an iron pistol barrel, it was a great collaboration for both of us. I learned the smelting and forging process and he learned barrel making. It was a fun project.

all arguments aside, that's pretty cool!

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I'm wondering; after making the gun part from scratch, was it actually used by assembling it, along with the rest of the necessary parts, into a complete working pistol?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by marley7x57:
No, the pistol was made, as many rifles are, by a labor of love.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I thought this thread was an appreciation of Dave's work, not your story on love.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

quote:

Originally posted by marley7x57:
No, the pistol was made, as many rifles are, by a labor of love.

That being the case, did the maker who assembled it sell it or keep it to stroke it lovingly from time to time?

If sold, did the buyer have sufficient cash to show appreciation for the intangible Labor of Love during the assembly, or did he merely buy the complete pistol assembly as a tangible unit?

Loving a firearm is something difficult to identify with, or the love of assembling it. Seems the OP firearm is for a sale for a price taking into account the transfer of loving care in the assembling of it. Does that love transform to cash?

All the love I'm familiar with has no price, except in the case of a prostitute analogy, which isn't really love, but the best some can get - for a price, and it's a poor substitute for the real thing.

Most of my "custom" rifles came into being through the enjoyment I experienced by collecting the parts over time, carefully selected with consideration of how they contributed to the assembly as a whole. when all the parts were obtained, then I would engage the services of a gunsmith to assemble them with skill and precision, which I paid for. Funny thing is that we didn't discuss the price of his labor of love. It just never came up. All my firearms are for sale for a price. Perhaps I can get more if I include love in the price.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I thought this thread was an appreciation of Dave's work, not your story on love.

quote:

Originally posted by marley7x57:
Assembly is like your prostitute story. You simple assemble the penis in the vagina. With your wife, it is a labor of love. I am sure if you think about it for a while you will understand the difference. You simply assembled a rifle while Dave's was a labor of love.

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Posting personal info in these forums is a huge no/no. I would strongly suggest deleating those posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Why don't you just drop it? ALl you are accomplishing is that you show the forum what a jerk you are and how impressed you are with yourself.

It would be really nice if the rest of the forum would just ignore your self-righteous comments, including me.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
No we don't--no breach of etiquette.

since when don't you believe in the First amendment?

If you want privacy--stay off the net.

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Originally posted by mlfguns:
Gentleman this post started with the good intention by Dave to display his wares. Which everyone of us addicts appreciates or we wouldn't be on this forum.
Insults were hurled and feelings were bent out of shape. Any wise man can see the water was muddied from the onset by continuing to mope it over and over, does not make it cleaner.
Let's start over with a clean slate and display respect and dignity to all our members who post their feelings and to the silent ones. None of us want to see it.
If anyone does not have something positive to say or at least critique with good intent, Then show maturity and hold your tongue.
What someone is willing to sell or buy is their business and theirs only. Who gave us permission to get in their pockets or to lay judgement.
We all are adults with different means and tastes. No one is coercing or twisting someone's arm to conduct business.
I have waited for three years to get my custom gun in the past. I did not like it but I put up with it and gladly. By the results I will not hesitate to do it again. I am sure with our state of mind , we all have a few rifles that can be used in the mean time.
I appreciate all gunsmiths with their varied talents. Some have pushed the bar and dedicated their body and soul in the pursuit of perfection. They don't need to be chastised but encouraged. Believe me this world would be a boring place without the likes of Dave Westbrook, Weibe, Echol's, Smithson, Fred Wells, Miller's, etc....
I am sure all of us prefer to be in a hunting camp talking guns than slinging mud on the internet. Stay focused be safe and enjoy the forum for what it is.
Charles