There was another post here a week or so ago concerning Blackburn.

Here is an email I received today from Swift. Lots of phone numbers to write down if you are interested.

To Kevin:



Effective June 17th, 2011, Swift acquired the Bottom Metal portion of Ted Blackburn-CNC Specialties Company. We purchased everything “Turn Key” necessary to manufacture the bottom metal and the Mauser triggers, in aluminum and steel, exactly the same way, on exactly the same equipment utilizing the same tooling, programs, etc., as Ted has used to make his parts over the years.



While small, this is an exciting opportunity for us and will be easily integrate into Swift without a lot of disruption from a physical or human resource standpoint. We have machinist, engineers, CNC operators, gunsmiths, and everything necessary to operate Blackburn effectively.



Currently, there is no inventory what so ever. Ted unfortunately didn’t have the means to keep up with the business. In fact, I believe had we not purchased Blackburn, it wouldn’t have been around much longer. Ted has agreed to work with us on a consulting basis as we move forward with manufacturing the product and has already been to our facility in Kansas.



Over the past four weeks we’ve moved everything from Utah to Kansas. We’ve re-installed all the equipment, brought electrical to it, and it’s up and running. We started making our first bottom metal parts on July 20th, 2011. It will take us some time to get familiar with all the procedures and processes, but I guarantee you will get bottom metal from us at least as good or better. We don’t plan on changing anything with the product, except you’ll be able to get it within a reasonable period of time when you order it.



The new name of the company will be Swift Blackburn, see enclosed Logo/Trademark. You can find us on the Swift website, www.swiftbullets.com, or go to the web and search up Blackburn and it will take you there as well. Our phone number is 785-754-3959, fax number is 785-754-2359, and our email address is contact@swiftbullets.com. Initially, we would prefer to talk to you directly in order to build a solid relationship and to be certain orders are placed correctly. We are a customer focused company; we value you as a customer and will do everything possible to accommodate your needs.



We will be at the Dallas Safari Show and will have booth there, if you plan to attend, we would like to invite you to our booth in order to make your acquaintance.



The only thing I ask is your being patient with us as we get up and running and build inventory and that you remain a customer an allow us to serve you with the finest Bottom Metal available.



Sincerely,

William D. Hober

At $400 for bottom metal, I think I will go with a blind magazine.

Funny, I have just never been in a hurry to unload my rifle.

Thanks for keeping us posted, but I kinda agree with Mike here. They say they won't be changing the price, only the delivery time.

whoopee, bfd, etc.
Regards, Joe

Quote "We started making our first bottom metal parts on July 20th, 2011." End Quote. Did they acquire the list of excuses along with the equipment. "Started" being past tense and July 20th is 7 days from now. Just curious. I always like Ted but his excuses were endless.

quote:

22WRF: It is an inate part of the human condition to down value what others have to offer you, and up value what you have to offer others.

That's for damn sure! Especially at gun shows!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

I suspect that 90 percent of all of the failures we have heard about here on AR have been due to undercapitalization.

Absolutely. Any idea how hard it is to get capital to start a custom gun business?

Rule of thumb when starting any business:

Plan for the first 2 years to work for nothing, IOW take NO MONEY out of the company for your own wages & expenses. Pay the expenses of actually doing business but take no wages and pay back no loans.

If you are not seeing a noticable brightening after 1 year, GET OUT! DO NOT FEED IT!
Regards, Joe

Custom bottom metal is not intended to be everybody's cup of tea, but a nice custom rifle with cheap aluminum trigger guard or floor plate is not appealing to me. I have Blackburn metal on a custom Remington 700 BDL and I'm very glad I have it. Most people who criticize nice custom features normally just can't afford them.

quote:

Most people who criticize nice custom features normally just can't afford them.

Some people can afford them but dont see value in them.

There are millionares/billionares who wont buy a new car or new clothes because they dont represent good value, regardless of the fact that they could easily afford to buy the factory that produces them.
Warren Buffet [Worlds 2nd Richest man $50+billion] owned a 2001 Lincoln Town car and still lives in the the original home be bought for $31,500 in 1958, current value around $500,000.

quote:

I have Blackburn metal on a custom Remington 700 BDL

I didn't know Blackburn ever made anything for a Remington 700; I've never seen any.

quote:

but they will spend $35000 on a pickup and beat the hell out of it.

Or hundreds of thousands on a wife and do the same thing!

I have found that when most people are informed that someone else disagrees with their marginal utility for a relatively high value item, they assume that the other person can't afford it.

0ften is the case, this same person seems to derive their self worth from the cost of the items they purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I have found that when most people are informed that someone else disagrees with their marginal utility for a relatively high value item, they assume that the other person can't afford it.

0ften is this case, this same person seems to derive their self worth from the cost of the items they purchase.

Truer words were never spoken!

This is The Doctrine of Conspicuous Consumption, where the ability to spend money lavishly is supposedly equated to the quality & worth of the spender.

Unfortunately cost does NOT necessarily indicate quality, much less VALUE, but some folks don't seem to have anything else to brag about.
Regards, Joe

That CAN be and oftimes IS the case, but, there are real benefits to "carriage trade" outdoor gear and these become more apparent with greater use in demanding environments.

I have found that properly fitted aftermarket steel bottom metal will improve an already good rifle to a "fine" rifle, as in my Browning Safari CRF .458WM, with a Weibe dropbox in steel, rather than the alloy pos it was sold with.

I have an FN Musketeer, in .308Norma, that a friend gave me and it is getting a Blackburn I bought from 22WRF to replace the crappy alloy unit from the factory. I believe in customising a given rifle so it will perform to it's ultimate potential in rough country and bad weather and do this to all of my guns.

So, for me it is not "braggin' rights", it is about function and reliability.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I have found that when most people are informed that someone else disagrees with their marginal utility for a relatively high value item, they assume that the other person can't afford it.

0ften is this case, this same person seems to derive their self worth from the cost of the items they purchase.

Truer words were never spoken!

This is The Doctrine of Conspicuous Consumption, where the ability to spend money lavishly is supposedly equated to the quality & worth of the spender.

Unfortunately cost does NOT necessarily indicate quality, much less VALUE, but some folks don't seem to have anything else to brag about.
Regards, Joe

Since when does a $400 item constitute "conspicuous consumption"? A $250K Lamborghini? maybe. A $400 gun part that does offer a very real benefit over the part it replaces? - hardly.

You two are far worse than the "conspicuous consumption" crowd in that you are making value judgments based on what OTHER people spend. Talk about some underlying insecurity issues..........

Toomany tools, The gunsmith that sold that bottom metal to me said it was made by Blackburn, and he's no longer with us. That was in the early 80's. Whoever made it did a beautiful job, that's all I know.

Oh CAS,

Please read ever so carefully. You will find that I spoke of my own personal assessment of the expenditure.

Others opined on what may be the cause of having such assessment may be. Perhaps they are clairvoyant.

I simply offered an alternative view of what may be the motivator of those that assessed the item to be worth the expenditure.

With respect to conspicuous consumption, it is relative. A complete FN Mauser action is what $450-500 from a JC Higgins rifle with perfectly functional bottom metal. Some people may find spending 80-90% of the cost of the action for a hinged floor plate and in the bow release excessive and conspicuous.

Likewise a $200 is not really a lot of money...unless you are talking about a rollerball pen.

I spoke to Swift earlier in the week. They are turning out a series of 98 bottom metal right now, with M70 metal 4-6 weeks out.

My order is in for a set for the latest M70 that's in the oven.

No offence to Mike intended, but, while I have and have had many FN actioned rifles and consider this an excellent basis for an inexpensive "working" custom rifle, I detest the bottom metal they came with and consider the expense of a Blackburn, Sunnyhill or Weibe to be money well spent.

I restock and change the bottom metal on Brno 21/22 rifles, as well and, while their drop plate setups are superbly finished and inletted, they are NOT as secure in use as good post-factory bottom metal. I am not one to spend money on a rifle to impress anyone, but, years of packing them in crappy conditions have taught me that some extra costs really work for me...and, everyone is different in this respect.

My good friend, RickF, is a seasoned and successful BC hunter and prefers a .358Norma for his "big" rifle, while I have been a .338WM nut since it was announced and would always choose one over anything else if I were restricted to one rifle.....ghastly thought...am I "right" or is Rick????? IMO, we both are and so is the guy who chooses custom parts for the rifle he uses and prefers....

Now, as to blondes, brunettes and redheads. welllll...........

From my view point as an amateur stock maker is that a custom bolt rifle is pointless with ugly bottom metal. Sorta like making a really nice hot rod out of a four door Impala. The price does seem high but I doubt anybody is getting rich making them (except maybe our resident millionaire gunsmith ) That's a joke in case my sense of humour is too dry. I just pay the price and move along. It's my hobby, it keeps me sane/stress relief and overall a small price to pay.

Give Swift a chance, why should they be hung prematurely?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:

With respect to conspicuous consumption, it is relative. A complete FN Mauser action is what $450-500 from a JC Higgins rifle with perfectly functional bottom metal. Some people may find spending 80-90% of the cost of the action for a hinged floor plate and in the bow release excessive and conspicuous.

As a guy who has a few JC Higgins rifles and several customized rifles on FN actions(with BB or Wiebe Bottom metal), I can say there is a real value in the after-market bottom metal.

If building a rifle with an 06 type case the original FN bottom-metal is great and I would not change it unless we are talking about a high dollar custom.

On the other hand, if you want to do a 375 based rifle you would do well to go with an aftermarket bottom metal as it will save you a ton of headaches.

If going with a 338 type magnum you could use the original FN type bottom metal, but there would be a real value in opting for the aftermarket as it is likely to save you some time and trouble as well producing a better overall rifle(as it will hold more rounds).

I do have a 458 Win that I am putting together that will most likely end up with a stock FN bottom metal. This is a cheap rifle that I don't want to have to worry about, but if I do run into any problems I will RUN to Wiebe.

quote:

0ften is the case, this same person seems to derive their self worth from the cost of the items they purchase.

or it could be said that some who dont see value in new BM, gets their self worth from their money.

Value the BM more or choose to cuddle your money,.... what ever floats ones boat.

No right or wrong really, just personal choice.

quote:

I restock and change the bottom metal on Brno 21/22 rifles, as well and, while their drop plate setups are superbly finished and inletted, they are NOT as secure in use as good post-factory bottom metal.

Dewey,

Could you please elaborate for us on this point.
Perhaps a picture would illustrate well.
Are you keeping them with the 2 triggers, or are you changing that as well?

Thanks
Warrior

I cannot do pix so will just explain.

Some Brno 21/2 series rifles have single triggers and fo those with the DSTs which I detest, I remove all bottom metal and the trigger and bolt shroud-safety. Then, I remove that abortion of a pressed steel follower and install a good 3-pos. Mod. 98 shroud safety, I have Dakota, Wisners, LaPour and Satterlee versions and a Mod. 98 trigger, I have several makes in use.

I then install good Mauser bottom metal, sometimes MKX stuff and sometimes ZG-47 pieces and a machined steel follower such as a FN. Now, I have a rifle that meets my criteria for a BC hunting rifle and I install a good synthetic stock.

I realize that 97 "purists" and "little old ladies" have had an infarction at my crass and utilitarian behaviour, well, fugit, my rifles are to hunt with and these mods work best for me.

I do the same mods to ZG-47s and I USE these rifles and in some very harsh country...which is what they were built for.......

22 WRF, This rifle is at the gunsmith being re-barreled right now. It's due back at the end of the month. I've never looked for anything identifying the maker, but sure will now as soon as it returns.

Dewey,

Thanks for your posting.

Having read your view, one might as well go for the VZ24 action that is more readily available, and just dolly it up with minimal changes of components, other than justing fitting an after-market trigger of which various choices can be made. It may not be as sleek looking and not having the intergral dovetails of the Brno mod 21, but the steel quality is good.

I have been looking for a ZG47 for the last decade, but to no avail - as scarce as hen's teeth. The Montanna 1999 action has my attention at the moment for another project I have in mind. More expensive than a Mauser VZ24 action, but at least I don't have to fall around to obtain a trigger, bottom metal and a safety replacement. Customisation is almost totally eliminated, other than just a final checking on 'trueing'.

The Montana actions are offered in a Short, Intermediate and Magnum magazine lengths, all available in right and left hand models on stainless steel or chrome moly (blue). They are manufactured to the same geometry of the original Winchester Pre-64 actions with the following improvements.

The Montana Rifle Company incorporated the following features:

1. Anti-Bind feature which utilized a dovetail left lug and race way (on right handed actions) which provides precise retention of the bolt within the receiver bore.

2. The bolt sleeve incorporates a Mauser style flange to gases issuing along the left bolt lug raceway, and away from the shooters face.

3. Retains the 3-position safety found on the Winchester Model 70.

4. Retains the claw extractor and controlled round feed capabilities.

5. Push button bolt release system that is cast integral with the action offering easy to use one hand operation.

6. The trigger assembly maintains the Model 70 geometry and is fully adjustable.

7. The action has been designed to incorporate the Mauser 98 style inner collaring that includes an extractor cut.

8. WemaintainedModel70geometryallowingcustomerstouseanystandardModel70 Mounts.

9. All actions include one piece, all steel bottom metal in either 11L17 or 416.

Warrior

No, having had a VZ-24 custom .280 with a stock from the Biesen's shop and the mods. as posted, I would disagree. The Brno actions cost little to modify as I do and are FAR superior to a VZ-24 in many important respects.

I put my efforts into building the finest, most functional hunting rifles possible and the Brnos as posted give me exactly that.

I don't like the Montana actions, at all and would not have one as a gift.They are not even remotely close to the fine old Brnos in any respect. There are Brnos available here and I now have three 21/22 rifles, two pristine 21 salvaged actions and three ZGs, as well as one waiting for me as the owner cleans up an estate.

One cannot buy a "better" action and I prefer to use the best gear I can obtain as it just works better for me. YMMV, of course.

quote:

I don't like the Montana actions, at all and would not have one as a gift.They are not even remotely close to the fine old Brnos in any respect. There are Brnos available here and I now have three 21/22 rifles, two pristine 21 salvaged actions and three ZGs, as well as one waiting for me as the owner cleans up an estate.

Dewey,

You have rather strong feelings about the Montanna and I was surprised to hear your opinion, as it is punted as so good. I am curious to know why you feel this way about them. Of course this is a rather 'new' action for us here in SA and we don't know it well.

Would you be selling the above Brno actions that you have modified to your taste? Perhaps you can PM me with the details and see if I can work a plan to import one. And can you tell me the componentry that you have added/modified to the original action and whether you do the truing yourself or have it done.

Much appreciated.
Thanks
Warrior

They are a cheap, poorly finished and cast action, the ones I handled were gritty, the bolt handle sucks, the cocking piece shroud is hideous and the bolt stop-release is going to clog with gunk in any rough usage, IMO. I just think they are a quickbuck attempt to cash in on the current trend to crf and the old Mod. 70, a fine action.

I have only added a FN single trigger,FN followers, Argy 1909 bottom metal and Mauser 98 ejector housings to the pair of Brno actions I have, they still need 3-pos. safeties and are totally stock except for these changes. They are minty, very hard to acquire and I am not yet quite ready to continue selling my rifles.

I have no idea about shipping to South Africa and this may be VERY difficult. I am not keen to do a lot of paperwork and it is VERY costly to have any gun shipping done from Canada, as we have the scourge of Commonwealth gun laws that left us so unprepared for WWII...and, it's worse now as people just seem to accept the curse of socialism and statist control of citizens....much like the acceptance of deadly drugs such as Cannabis Sativa, etc.

Soooooo, all in all, I tend to think it probably not worth it to you and I suggest buying something already built by a top smith and Ralf Martini here in BC would be one I would recommend.

Original 1909 argentine BM does not have a raized tab on the floorplate release lever.
I figure Paul Mauser, in the interests of ultimate reliability/no chance of accidently bumping the floorplate open in hectic battle conditions, saw no need for such feature.

New manufacture bow release BM with raized tab, generally poses no problem with std. rounds and the lesser magnums, however in the heavy bigbores they have been known to dump the contents of the magbox when one least desires it.

But original Mauser Portugal 1904 had that raised tab.
Otherwise being identical to the Argentine BM.

So I don´t think it depended more on the specifications of the army and not so much what Mauser had in mind.

quote:

They are a cheap, poorly finished and cast action, the ones I handled were gritty, the bolt handle sucks, the cocking piece shroud is hideous and the bolt stop-release is going to clog with gunk in any rough usage, IMO.

Dewey,


I did not know that the Montanna action was a cast action. Then it seems that the new Winchester M70 is still a better bet when tweaked by a gunsmith. This is what I found on the Winchester site:

"The forged steel receiver starts as a forged from a solid block of steel. (What could be stronger?) This is expensive to do, but the regal Model 70 is worth it. Each finished forging is precisely machined, creating a strong, stiff and solid receiver that resists flexing and delivers uncanny accuracy. The bottom profile of this receiver is flat to offer greater surface area for bedding."

Warrior

I consider a CZ-550 superior to either and that is what I would buy in your place, look at "American Hunting Rifles" site to see some FINE iron and go from there.

Forged versus cast is apples versus oranges. All depends upon just HOW the steel is A)alloyed, B)initially formed and C)finally heat-treated. AFAIK there is NO single shot rifle action as strong as a Ruger No 1, and the Rugers are cast.

AAMOF ALL steel is cast, in the initial smelting/alloying process.

120 years ago the term 'cast' referred to iron. 70 years ago 'cast' referred to last-ditch Japanese rifles or the first inadequate castings by others.

However nowadays 'cast' also refers to some of the finest and strongest steels in the world. Certainly finer and stronger than any forged steel of pre-WW2 vintage!
Regards, Joe

I am well aware of this and would just point out that the Brno actions I mention here are POST WWII and are the finest-made bolt actions of the Mauser type.

I would not put a Ruger No1 in quite the same category as a Hagn or one of a couple of other Euro. single shots and expect that the Soroka-Farqui is probably stronger. I am biased here as I do not like No.1s or Dakota Mod. 10s, so, this is just my subjective opinion....emanating from an ornery old geezer, as always!

Modern produced Mauser actions that are machined out of a solid piece of high-grade steel are obviously the best, but they are very expensive. These ones are the likes of Wells, H&W, Golmatic, Satterlee and Vektor.

The CZ550 rifle has also an investment casting action and they are durable.
Investment castings are for saving machining costs and wasted material.
Since factory output can be increased there it is a huge economic benefit for them.

Warrior

For simple strength, the Ruger is unsurpassed and IMO unequaled by any other single shot, anywhere. The Hagns and Sorokas may cost a lot more but they don't have NEARLY the Ruger's rep for strength.

I personally have never even heard of a Ruger blowing up, and would be astonished if it had ever occurred in an instance that did not first involve a catastrophic barrel failure of some sort.

And the Rugers are investment cast.

So much (dismissive snap of the fingers) for the 'forged or machined-from-billet is better' argument, it simply doesn't hold water. Modern technology has once again surpassed the older methods in at least some respects (grin).

And for those who still think that the forged pre-64 M70s are the be-all & end-all, I humbly direct your attention to the photo in Ackley's Handbook. It shows the shattered results of an overload in a pre-64; the receiver was so brittle that it literally shattered instead of deforming!
Regards, Joe

Well, this is a subjective commentary based on various personal attitudes and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I had three different Ruger No1 rifles from 1978 to 1982 and would not have another as a gift from an enemy.

My hands-on experience with the Hagn, much less than I would like, of course, leads me to think that it is far beyond the Ruger in almost all respects and it is one highend rifle I might yet try to find the $$$$ to buy. I expect that the lovely Soroka is it's equal, however, I have not had the privilege of examining one so far.

I have seen a number of the custom-machined Mauser actions made since WWII and I have yet to see one superior in quality to a Brno 21/22 or ZG action. If, these are so inferior, why do the best gunmakers now working with bolt rifles, such as Ralf Martini and Duane Weibe hold them in such high esteem?

For every issue with a P-64, I can show you many more with the Post-64, but, who cares, I have sufficient tested, customized and reliable rifles to do me for the rest of my life and do not give even a small shit what others may think of my guns.

Shoot WTF you want, leaave the fine old Brnos for we who know what they are and want them.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
For simple strength, the Ruger is unsurpassed and IMO unequaled by any other single shot, anywhere. The Hagns and Sorokas may cost a lot more but they don't have NEARLY the Ruger's rep for strength.

What credible tests or calcs have been conducted to acertain that the Ruger#1 is unequalled or unsurpassed in strength?

So much (dismissive snap of the fingers) for the 'forged or machined-from-billet is better' argument, it simply doesn't hold water. Modern technology has once again surpassed the older methods in at least some respects (grin).

Id be more than happy to have an M98 machined from investment cast chrome moly.
there are no concerns with strength.


And for those who still think that the forged pre-64 M70s are the be-all & end-all, I humbly direct your attention to the photo in Ackley's Handbook. It shows the shattered results of an overload in a pre-64; the receiver was so brittle that it literally shattered instead of deforming!

The issue with orig. P64s cracking or shattering is due to their reputation for dubious quality factory heat-treat.
Having said that,even a properly heat treated Mauser98 will explode into pieces if fed the wrong load.

[QUOTE]


The Hagn design provides equal support for the breech block.



The Ruger with the cut away receiver feature, does not.

quote:

I have seen a number of the custom-machined Mauser actions made since WWII and I have yet to see one superior in quality to a Brno 21/22 or ZG action. If, these are so inferior, why do the best gunmakers now working with bolt rifles, such as Ralf Martini and Duane Weibe hold them in such high esteem?

As good as the old commercial Brno m98s are, they still do vary in quality, some samples can still require a fair amount of truing up & final finishing, in order to be a befitting component of an fine high end custom.

Production methods of the ZG47 varied between early and late production models.
as a result,there are both the regular and cost cutting versions floating around out there.

The Brno small ring also had cost cutting methods employed in manufacture.

I dont know of any custom action builders[of Authentic M98], that have used the compromised-cheaper-shortcut manufacturing methods employed by Brno.