Trax, I respectfully take issue with 2 points you made.

First, the 'tests' of action strength. No, I've conducted no empirical tests of the Ruger, but almost 50 years of Number One production have established that there have been NO repeat NO catastrophic action failures yet. No other action of any type except the Remington 700 has proven as strong, or even close.

Think about it. Almost 50 years of reloading accidents, barrel obstructions, weak brass, stupid reloaders, etc, and NOT ONE incident of catastrophic failure! No, maybe not ironclad conclusive, but plenty good enough for me!

Secondly, the contention that a properly- or even improperly-hardened Mauser will shatter under load like a pre-64 is, IMO, simply wrong. The Mauser steel is, by design, a low-carbon steel that's been surface-hardened but with a softer core to absorb shocks. The pre-64 is a higher-carbon steel that by design is hardened clear through. You'd hafta add some carbon to the composition of the Mauser steel to get it hard enough to shatter.
Regards, Joe

added later: the above remarks don't apply to the later FN and postwar Mausers.

The #1 may have indeed earned a sound reputation for high strength, but that does not neccesarily mean it is unsurpassed or superior in strength.

A mauser may not shatter like a brittle P64, but with sufficient excess load, it can still tear apart, sending bits flying in several directions.

In 43+ year of ownership and hard mountain use of plus max. handloading for P-64s, with 42 of these fine working rifles owned and many more loaded for and shot, plus hundreds examined, I have never seen one cracked or damaged by any of this usage/loading. I had one cracked by a "gunsmith", a careless guy who was a Remington fancier and not a hunter and it was HIS fault, not that of Winchester's manufacturing processes.

I am not aware of any difference in manufacturing processes/quality control in the Brno 21/22 rifles-actions and the polished-frosted receiver finishes in ZGs are probably due to different orders from different jobbers in different countries.

This difference exists in actions manufactured "early" and "late" in the production run of these superb rifles and I have never seen a difference in actual quality between them.

I have both types and find them both to be superb rifles and prefer them to almost anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
In 43+ year of ownership and hard mountain use of plus max. handloading for P-64s, with 42 of these fine working rifles owned and many more loaded for and shot, plus hundreds examined, I have never seen one cracked or damaged by any of this usage/loading. I had one cracked by a "gunsmith", a careless guy who was a Remington fancier and not a hunter and it was HIS fault, not that of Winchester's manufacturing processes.

Check out the photo in Ackley's Handbook, it'll give you food for thought.

I too have never seen a cracked M70 but a friend has, in deliberate & planned testing, blown up almost every bolt action available in the 1960s and he gave us some mighty good info about their relative strengths. These DoD tests were in search of ultra-high velocity and the actions were merely test mules, with pressures eventually exceeding 150K psi.

The Remington 600 Magnum was the ultimate winner by a LONG way, the only other thing that ultimately stood the gaff better was a bench-made screw-breech affair.

The Winchesters, sadly, were no better than the Weatherby or the Sako. The Mausers didn't even get close to 100K psi before stretching too much.

So, the Winchesters are OK for normal pressures.

IMO for strength it's Remington and for gas-handling it's Mauser.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

As good as the old commercial Brno m98s are, they still do vary in quality, some samples can still require a fair amount of truing up & final finishing, in order to be a befitting component of an fine high end custom.

Production methods of the ZG47 varied between early and late production models.
as a result,there are both the regular and cost cutting versions floating around out there.

The Brno small ring also had cost cutting methods employed in manufacture.

I dont know of any custom action builders[of Authentic M98], that have used the compromised-cheaper-shortcut manufacturing methods employed by Brno.

Would you mind detailing these? I have been looking at a Brno action in 9.3 that is at a very tempting price. I would be very interested to know what about them varied.

Feel free to PM or email me, no need to post here.

thanks

not my rifle...just info I found when researching Mauser actions

Judging from the photo, it would not surprise me to learn that the Mauser blowup was initially caused by a catastrophic barrel failure of some sort. The presence of all or almost all the pieces of the ring indicate to me that they were not thrown very far by the blowup, otherwise some would probably be missing. Hard to tell since the rest of the barrel isn't there.

A catastrophic barrel failure with failure lines extending longitudinally in line with the bore will almost always fracture the receiver ring in a manner identical to this.

I remember a few years ago a photo of a blown-up Sako appeared on the net, astonishing everyone who saw it. IIRC the shooter was using factory loads and the blowup remains were substantially identical to the Mauser shown.

The ultimate cause was eventually proven to be a faulty batch of barrel steel, allowing the barrel to fracture longitudinally. The longitudinal barrel fractures, in turn, cracked & spread the front of the ring and caused its failure.

Not saying that the blowup above was caused by anything in particular, just saying that it looks VERY similar to that of the Sako.
Regards, Joe

Fal Grunt,

First let me say, the Brno commercial mausers like the model 21,22,zg47 are good well made gear.
The features I'm about to point out shouldn't deter someone from owning one, as they are still fine functioning actions.

Some Brno small rings[round top] are made without the guide rib on the bolt.[I would still own one]

This photo shows were the guide rib is machined using technique that results in grooves in the bolt body.
Other samples of zg47s will not have those grooves.
Would anyone be impressed if their new custom made m98 action arrived machined like that?




Brno zg47s as they are, are a little removed from being in the class of a high grade custom M98 Like the sample H&W magnum mauser with Echols BM, you see below it.

I have never seen a ZG-47 without the Mauser guide rib as illustrated and the ...grooves... are merely how it was dimensioned. The receiver treatment can be EITHER polished blue or a matte much like that of late '50s Mod. 70s, however, the quality is the same....uniformly excellent, IME.

SOME of the earlier B-21/22 actions were made without guide ribs and the bolts fitted so well that these were not necessary and others were made with the guide ribs. Some had vestigial clip slots and others did not and still others, most of them, had the "double flattops" so beloved of gunrag hacks. There was considerable variation among these rifles from when they began to make them circa 1947 to the sad day in about 1956, when they were discontinued.

Yes, actions CAN be made as well and even finished a bit better by contemporary custom makers, such as Stuart Satterlee....one can still find a donnor ZG or 21/22 for $800.00 to $1000.00 here in Canada....need I say more?

quote:

SOME of the earlier B-21/22 actions were made without guide ribs and the bolts fitted so well that these were not necessary

New custom actions can have very well fitted bolts also, yet they don't delete the guide rib- simply because it is an integral part of the M98 design. Most people want an authentic featured mauser when spending high dollars.
Some say the C-ring is not necessary, but who would order a new production custom M98 receiver without one?

Oh, I agree and I much prefer the 21/22 actions with the rib as my rifles are all built to work and hunt with and this feature allows a looser bolt fit which allows better function in sandy conditions. The "C" ring, well, I also agree, but, I am not about to "toss" my Safari Grades, P-64s, HVAs and so forth because they all lack this aspect of the "Patterne 98" design.

All of this notwithstanding, and I would LOVE to have a fullhouse custom wilderness rifle based on a Satterlee or H&W action, there is nothing I have ever seen that is better than a ZG or 21/22 action with minimal mods, good barrel and sights and a good "plastic" handle for a serious BC rifle. I have had around 125 big game rifles since 1964 and this is what I have found.

Is that H&W yours or some other lucky bugger's?

What do you guys think about the Brno Zkk-601 actions? I was looking at one the other day for $250 and was trying to decide whether it was worth it.

Certianly not as nice as a ZG-47... looked at one of those in texas. Very beautiful!

I have now owned two ZKK-601s, three ZKK-600s and one ZKK-602 and the EARLY ones, with the pop-up peep sight in the reciever bridge are damn good actions/rifles. I wish I had one or two in 9.3x62 and 7x64 as friends of mine do...and, will not sell them to me!

The later production was pretty hit and miss and some were just pathetic, but, from 1966-7 to about the mid-'70s, they were a good working rifle.

They are NOT ZGs or 21/22s, though and nothing can be done to make them compare.

The commercial Brno small ring receivers were made using tooling that was used to produced the vz33 & G33/40.

Brno commercial small ring[without bolt guide rib],was result of the decision to use up WW II factory inventory from the days of German occupation. Late '44 and 1945 bolt bodies for the Reich were made without the guide rib at many plants, including occupied Czechoslovakia.

Brno 21H,... The underside of the receiver milling is to German war time specs for the Mod '98 large ring.

Zg47 early production used identical receiver underside milling to wartime spec.

The Zg47 utilises many of the war time type bolt bodies[2 grooves at the joining of the guide rib with the bolt body]. Some precise cutter making and sharpening was eliminated.


There is little doubt that they used left over partial or started materials to make the commercial Brno M98 rifles.

How many have heard of the rare Brno Zg49....?

The way Brno sliced metal away from the zg47 front receiver ring, has always made me question how much wall thickness is really required.

J.D.,

It would appear you don't believe in Occam's Razor or res ipsa loquitur.

ZG 49 was a sniper rifle designed by Otakar Galas, pg 89 "Czech Firearms and Ammunition" Dolinek, Karlicky and Vacha.

Why would two guys, who each charge well north of $15,000 for their least expensive product, choose to use a modified current model 70 action to use in their product, when their talents and their customer base are such that they could probably manufacture their own actions to conform to these BRNO's and other currently manufactured mauser type actions?

'Cause it's cheaper and easier.

And, they can sell their clients on it. Anyone who can sell a 70 for that kind of money could sell iceboxes to Eskimos (VBG).
Regards, Joe

There are several reasons why Echol's and Miller use the 70 actions, among the most important is marketing. Americans, are the vast majority of their customers and Americans like to buy Winchesters and Colts, simple as that.

I suggest that you call Duane Weibe, D'Arcy Echols, Ralf Martini and other top gunmakers such as Heilman, etc. and ask them what they think of the Brnos I commented on here.......you might be surprised with the relies you receive.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Why would two guys, who each charge well north of $15,000 for their least expensive product, choose to use a modified current model 70 action to use in their product, when their talents and their customer base are such that they could probably manufacture their own actions to conform to these BRNO's and other currently manufactured mauser type actions?

Their rifles are not all exclusively built on M70 actions.
They dont have to bother build their own M98 receivers be-cause there are enough such manufacturers to satisfy & supply their needs.
Same reason they dont make their own barrels.
However, they do custom make certain other specific high grade components to the spec they require [such as mounting systems and bottom metal].

You guys are missing my point (becasue you are all fired up to win your argument, and I am just conversing and asking questions)

I am sure the BRNO's are great actions, as are the other currently made actions such as Granite Mountain, Satterlee, Vector, Peterson, and on and on into the night. So thats not my issue as to which is better because I don't think anyone can know or say which is better. All they can really do is say what they prefer and why.

What I am saying is that these two guys advertise that they make no compromises in building what they believe to be the finest rifles in the world. So, they must believe that the 70 classic action has enough going for it that they do not need to make their own actions or they do not need to go out and buy actions from some other maker other than winchester.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

You guys are missing my point...

...What I am saying is that these two guys advertise that they make no compromises in building what they believe to be the finest rifles in the world. So, they must believe that the 70 classic action has enough going for it that they do not need to make their own actions or they do not need to go out and buy actions from some other maker other than winchester.

As already pointed out to you, they do buy & use actions other than the M70.

When they build a rifle on an M70,they modify them to higher spec.
The factory M70 receiver as it stands, does not make the grade.

The special thing about an M70 from say Echols is, that he builds such rifles to the ultimate level of function/reliability.
Echols will dump Blackburn magnum mauser BM and winchester magboxes in favor of his own superior improved design custom unit.

On the other hand, one can have a custom high dollar mauser built by some another smith, that will jam a factory load after spending $15k for his special ACGG talents...

Id rather have an Echols Synthetic Legend M70 over an simlarly priced fancy walnut M98 headache.

Plenty of folks still love the M70 even though it's been proven to be slightly weaker and a good bit more more dangerous to the shooter under catastrophic conditions than the custom actions and many Mausers.

It's easy to obtain, reasonably reliable, VERY good-looking, reasonably accurate, quite inexpensive and very easy to stock.

All in all, a perfectly adequate choice.

It's also easy to sell to the client, the Winchester rep & mystique will carry it through any awkward questions most of the time. Plus as I said, some of these guys could sell iceboxes to Eskimos.

Nothing wrong with the M70, not at all, but OTOH not quite enough right with it either, at least not for me.

That's why they call 'em custom, we choose & change 'em to fit our desires and our desires are all individual. Personally I'd choose a ZG-47 for its looks and replace the bolt sleeve/safety for better function.
Regards, Joe

quote:

As already pointed out to you, they do buy & use actions other than the M70.

Trax

I can read. But I don't think they buy other actions for their "least expensive product", and won't use other actions for that product unless the client insists and supplies the action. OCICBW

D'Arcy posts here, why don't you guys just ask him why he chose the Model 70 to build his Legend around?

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
... I don't think they buy other actions for their "least expensive product", and won't use other actions for that product unless the client insists and supplies the action...

thats how most if not all smiths operate,aint it?
i.e.; You want Krieger over Douglas, Burgess over Talley,Echols over Blackburn,H&W magnum mauser over military surplus,extra figure walnut,..... you gots to pay for any price difference.

Echols Classic Sporter:

"I have found the following components ideal for a Classic Light Sporter. The current production long and medium, right and left handed Winchester Model 70 actions. As well as a few very carefully selected current production and original large ring or small ring 98 Mauser actions. Chambering choices are limited to those calibers for which factory ammunition is currently available. Popular favorites are the 270 Winchester, 7x57 Mauser, 7x64 Brenneke, 280 Remington, 7mm Remington Magnum, 30-06 Springfield, 300 H&H Magnum, 300 Winchester Magnum, 300 Weatherby Magnum, 8x68S, 338 Winchester magnum, 340 Weatherby Magnum and 9.3x62 Mauser."

Trax

You and I are talking about apples and oranges.
I have been talking about his "least expensive product", the Legend, which is $15,500. As far as I can tell, its available ONE WAY. Model 70 action in a Legend Stock with Echols bottom metal. Period.

You are talking about his Light Sporter, which is, I think, about $30,000.00.

DArcys least expensive Classic is $32k- you can go up from their, depending on what one wants.

I would say DArcy sticks to the M70 for his LEGEND,simply because the Syn. stock pattern he designed is not suitable to house the M98.
He could use the current McMillan M98 pattern, but I doubt its up to his refined geometric stocking standards.
If DArcy can settle on a pattern for M98 and get McMillan to produce it, id say there would be clients willing to order an "M98 LEGEND"rifle.
Im sure he could also successfully sell such syn. stocks on their own, in the same way he sells his M70 legend stocks to other smiths and the DIY crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I have been talking about his "least expensive product", the Legend, which is $15,500. As far as I can tell, its available ONE WAY. Model 70 action in a Legend Stock with Echols bottom metal. Period.

What other way would you like your Legend to be?

If one is buying a Legend for its typical trademark reliability,high accuracy,attention to detail and rugged construction, I can't imagine what one would want to change.

There are a couple optional extras available if someone wants them. i.e.; Checkered bolt release and some BH options.

When it comes to M70 clones theres the Dakota76, but DArcy for what ever reason, didn't sound too impressed with them.
Other than that, there are no other reliable sources of M70 design apart from the Win.
Noreen and WFH have failed to supply such products. Harre appears to no longer make his M49 version, John Bolliger once listed a new production M70 clone receiver from S7 tool steel,but not anymore.
I figure its too much hassle for DArcy to produce his own M70 type receiver,probably prefers to spend his valuable time producing actual rifles.
IIRC, Dave Miller had input in the design of the Win.Classic CRF M70 receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

The special thing about an M70 from say Echols is, that he builds such rifles to the ultimate level of function/reliability.

On the other hand, one can have a custom high dollar mauser built by some another smith, that will jam a factory load after spending $15k for his special ACGG talents...

Id rather have an Echols Synthetic Legend M70 over an simlarly priced fancy walnut M98 headache.

+1.

And don't forget you also get a high $ rifle with average at best/off the shelf accuracy, that is if you can get that fancy rifle to feed.

Is the synthetic stocked $15,500 Legend worth it? You bet!

Are 2 custom mausers worth one Legend. Fuck no!

If you want a rifle for show and tell, buy a used one. You can get a mauser custom for around 40% of its cost- and even then it is still overpriced for what you get.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
DArcys least expensive Classic is $32k- you can go up from their, depending on what one wants.

I would say DArcy sticks to the M70 for his LEGEND,simply because the Syn. stock pattern he designed is not suitable to house the M98.
He could use the current McMillan M98 pattern, but I doubt its up to his refined geometric stocking standards.
If DArcy can settle on a pattern for M98 and get McMillan to produce it, id say there would be clients willing to order an "M98 LEGEND"rifle.
Im sure he could also successfully sell such syn. stocks on their own, in the same way he sells his M70 legend stocks to other smiths and the DIY crowd.

While D'Arcy may kick my tail for doing this, this picture appears to have him, a Legend stock and an M98 all in the same frame! Tied together. I've rubbed my eyes twice but still see the same thing. AND, I don't think he's giving up on the Model 70 either!

I thought this was a post about Blackburn products????

quote:

I would say DArcy sticks to the M70 for his LEGEND,simply because the Syn. stock pattern he designed is not suitable to house the M98. He could use the current McMillan M98 pattern, but I doubt its up to his refined geometric stocking standards. If DArcy can settle on a pattern for M98 and get McMillan to produce it, id say there would be clients willing to order an "M98 LEGEND"rifle.

Bell & Carlson Medalist™ Classic Checkered Riflestocks are offered for ..... the Remington 700, Savage 110, Mauser 96/98, Browning A-Bolt, Winchester 70 SA WSM and the Weatherby Mk V with Aluminum Bedding blocks.

"With an aluminum skeleton running not just the length of the action but from the bottom of the grip to the forend tip (the forward swivel stud actually threads into it), these are possibly the finest aluminum-bedded hunting rifle stock on the market today, and certainly the best value. Reliable over a temperature range of -50ºF to + 140ºF and covered by a limited lifetime warranty. Warranty card is included in the box with your purchase. Drop-in fit for most sporters, minor barrel channel or other modification may be necessary in some cases."

" Timeless classic "CDL" styling with checkering panels on the sides of the forend and grip. As with all Medalists, Uncle Mikes™ swivel studs are included as is the beautifully fitted Pachmayr® brand Decelerator® recoil pad, arguably the best pad and studs money can buy."

Their stocks can be seen here: http://www.bellandcarlson.com/Our%20Products.htmL

Warrior

quote:

When it comes to M70 clones theres the Dakota76, but DArcy for what ever reason, didn't sound too impressed with them.

????????

Warrior

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http://forums.accuratereloadin...55?r=4791055#4791055

Here is an excerpt from an article in Rifle magazine [sorry, date unknown, but relatively recent I believe].

"The breeching system we use is very similar to the Mauser," says Allen. "The bolt face is squared off like the Mauser and we've pulled the barrel back further into the receiver... the bolt actually fits into the rear portion of the barrel, forming an inner ring around the bolt."

The Dakota action, like the M70, has a vent hole in the right side of the receiver ring. The bolt stop is a precise, finely fitted part that blocks the left raceway to deflect gases and brass particles away from the shooter. Other changes include a redesigned firing-pin, beefier safety, and what Dakota calls "reverse round feeding." This means that the first round in the magazine is held by the left feed rail instead of the right. The advantage is that it is easier and faster if the shooter ever has to load a round in a hurry.

The quality of materials and workmanship is equally important. Actions can be made in various ways, all of which produce good actions if the work is done well. Dakota Arms receivers are machined from high-grade, heat-treated steel. The advantage of this method is that there is no concern about warping, which can happen if the steel is machined and then hardened. Parts can be machined to extremely close tolerances. The disadvantage to this is that it is much more time-consuming and costly to machine steel after it has been heat-treated. As Don Allen says, "We start with a 10-pound block of steel and we end up with a 2pound receiver and 8 pounds of steel shavings on the floor."

Great pains are taken during manufacture to keep everything straight and concentric; bolts are matched to receivers and receiver threads are cut so that the barrel is properly centered and aligned. Currently there are a number of gunsmiths who cater to accuracy enthusiasts by specializing in "blueprinting" actions. They take standard actions of various makes, square and true them, fit barrels square to the action, and lap the locking lugs to bear evenly. Dakota Arms rifles are made with all these features right from the beginning and have always featured high-grade barrels, which are currently supplied by Lothar Walther.

Made To Order

The Dakota 76 action is made in four lengths and in either right- or left-handed versions at no extra cost. It is possible to purchase actions, barreled actions or complete rifles. The Classic Grade Model 76 is handsomely stocked in a good grade of English walnut, hand checkered and complete with sling swivel studs and recoil pad. It's an attractive, reliable and distinctive rifle. The majority of Dakota rifles are made to order, with additional features selected from a long list of options. These include upgraded wood, fancier checkering patterns, skeleton grip caps and butt-plates, special stock and barrel lengths, sight options such as quarter ribs and banded/hooded front sights. Many customers fly in from around the country or around the world to discuss options and to select a stock blank from the extensive supply on hand.

Touring the Dakota facility is a fascinating experience. The melding of technology and tradition can be disconcerting. At one point you can watch the most modern, computer numeric controlled machine tool at work, which fabricates components to precise tolerances. Step around a corner and its as though you've stepped back in time back to the world of hand craftsmanship of a century ago. Here, a worker - more accurately, an artist -is unhurriedly hand fitting and assembling components to make an action.

Jordan

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Copied from: For The Technical Types -- The News From Sturgis Winter 2002-2003 www.DakotaArms.com

By Don Allen (editor's comments found below are in italics)

One of the most frequently asked questions we answer is why we chose the action design we currently manufacture and how does it differ from the Model 70 Winchester design both past and present. Over the years, we learned that there are certain features that are considered essential to any hunting rifle intended for dangerous game. Other features have evolved because they work better, last longer or are simpler and easier to maintain. The pre-64 Model 70 design is considered one of the greatest hunting rifles of all times and the actions have long been a favorite candidate of custom gun makers as a basis for modification and customizing into works of art. There are several features of the Model 70 action that were incorporated into the Dakota 76 with only minor modifications.

Extractor – The controlled round feeding system is one of the essentials. This extractor system was borrowed from the Mauser design and controls the cartridge from the time bolt is moved forward until the cartridge case is ejected. On other design, the bolt does not hold or control the cartridge case until the cartridge is chambered and the bolt handle moved to the closed position. This system is commonly referred to as a push feed system and has a number of disadvantages. It is quite possible with the push feed system in the heat of the moment to chamber a round and not close the bolt handle sufficiently to engage the rim of the case. The bolt is then recycled picking up a second cartridge and attempting to chamber it as well. Obviously, two cartridges won’t fit into one chamber at the same time and a jam occurs. Push feed systems rely on gravity to hold the cartridge in position until the bolt is closed. A common demonstration of this is to turn the rifle upside down and the cartridges will fall to the ground. A friend of mine experienced this problem while chasing a wounded buffalo in Africa . He was attempting to reload his push feed rifle as he was running to an ant hill for a follow up shot. The rifle was jostled sufficiently to cause the cartridge to flip out unnoticed and the bolt was closed on the empty chamber.

Push feed systems by design force the cartridge case to the bottom of the chamber. There is a lot of forward pressure applied to the case as the extractor is forced to hop over the rim. If the rifle or the cartridge case exhibits any head s pace – misfires occur. The controlled round design holds the cartridge case back against the bolt face and helps prevent misfires.

One of the best features of the controlled round system is that the extractor can be easily replaced in the field if necessary. It was designed that way, of course, for military troops. This is not the case with the various push feed designs – a broken extractor disables the gun until the manufacturer can replace it.

Safety – The Model 70 Winchester three position safety is certainly one of the best safety designs. It is so well designed that it has been copied by a number of the custom makers and applied to other types of rifles as well. The Dakota uses the Model 70 safety design with one modification – the diameter of the axel or camming surface was increased to correct a common problem. The Model 70, after being used for some time, would tend to wear the camming surfaces and not provide adequate surface to move the striker rearward sufficiently. In other words, the safety could be “on”, the trigger pulled, which would allow the striker to slip past the sear and when the safety was pushed forward the gun would fire. By increasing the diameter of the axel, it was possible to achieve greater camming surface and move the striker farter insuring trigger and sear engagement.

The striker blocking safety is a unique design allowing the firearm to be unloaded by cycling cartridges from the magazine while the safety is “on”. The middle position of the safety also allows the bolt to be dissembled for cleaning or repair in a couple of minutes. The Dakota 76 safety lever is machined from bar stock and selectively heat treated. The Model 70 safety lever is casting or more specifically a part formed by a metal injection molding process.

Trigger – The Model 70 trigger design is considered one of the best triggers for hunting rifles. It is very simple and strong with only two main members each pinned directly into the receiver. Most trigger systems utilize a housing to encompass the various trigger components and the housing is in turn fastened to the receiver. The housings are fabricated from thin gauge aluminum or sheet metal and pins are fitted through the housing to hold the various trigger components in place. Obviously if the rifle is used a great deal or subjected to abuse, the pins will wear and the trigger will no longer function properly. Also, any housing type trigger is likely to fill up with dirt, mud, or moisture and obstruct the trigger movement. Another disadvantage of the housing is that it is bulky and it is necessary to remove a great deal of wood from an area of the stock that is already the weakest in order to accommodate the housing. All our trigger components are machined from bar stock, selectively heat treated and sear notches cut with a wire EDM.

So much for the similarities – let’s look at the differences. The first major difference is the manufacturing process to produce a Dakota 76 receiver. Each receiver is machined from aircraft quality, pre-hardened bar stock. The steel used is a 4140 series hardened to a Rockwell of 28-32. Pre-hardened material is more difficult to work but it allows us to machine the receiver to exact tolerances and not lose those tolerances in subsequent heat treating. The first operation is to drill and ream the hole that will eventually be the raceway for the bolt. All subsequent machining operations are done with a mandrel inserted into the hole and machined between centers to insure an even distribution of metal around the receiver. Receiver threads are milled rather than tapped to insure that the threads are exactly on the bore line of the action. Each bolt is turned between centers from bar stock. The handles are machined and welded in place and the entire bolt is then heat treated. Afterwards the bolt body is ground between centers on a cylindrical grinder to very exact sizes. The internal threads in the bolt body are also cut on machining centers. All camming surfaces are cut with helixes and all threads bear evenly. Each bolt is individually lapped to its respective receiver. “Blue printing” is not necessary if the action is manufactured properly and no amount of blue printing can resurrect a poorly made action.

A major design difference between the Dakota 76 and the Model 70 Winchester action is the breeching system. If the Model 70 has a weakness it is in the inability to effectively handle escaping gases. The (pre-'64) Model 70 like most other bolt rifles is designed to direct escaping gasses into the left raceway. These gases, seeking the path of least resistance are ejected out the rear of the action into the shooters face – there is absolutely nothing to stop it. (the current Model 70 Winchester has a steel lug on the bolt, opposite the extractor which blocks off the left raceway to deflect gases away from the shooter) The Dakota 76 breeching system is very similar to the Mauser. The bolt is squared off like the Mauser and the barrel is set farther back into the receiver and recessed so that the bolt fits into the rear portion of the barrel forming an inner ring around the bolt. The bolt stop has been designed to effectively seal off the left raceway preventing gas and debris from exiting the action to the rear.

Another design difference is the firing pin assembly. The Dakota design is stronger and will not blow out the back of the action. The Model 70 design utilizes a pin as an anti-blow back device and the firing pin is milled nearly in half to accommodate the pin creating a weak link at that point. Should the firing pin break at this point, the gun will fire regardless of the position of the safety. The Dakota 76 actions are now available in five different sizes – each available in either right or left hand versions. Several other modifications were incorporated into the Dakota 76 such as the reverse round follower, the one piece bottom metal in both classic and drop box versions, the blind guard crew on the rear tang, and the ejection port is finished off much like the Mauser.

Our goal at Dakota Arms is quite simple – build the highest quality sporting arms available. The design is classic, the craftsmanship traditional and the fit and finish unsurpassed. Our guns are designed for discriminating sportsmen and professional hunters worldwide, who will settle for nothing short of the best.

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Great pains are taken during manufacture to keep everything straight and concentric; bolts are matched to receivers and receiver threads are cut so that the barrel is properly centered and aligned. Currently there are a number of gunsmiths who cater to accuracy enthusiasts by specializing in "blueprinting" actions. They take standard actions of various makes, square and true them, fit barrels square to the action, and lap the locking lugs to bear evenly. Dakota Arms rifles are made with all these features right from the beginning.

Ask RIP about how well aligned his Dakota 76 receiver thread was.

Each receiver is machined from aircraft quality, pre-hardened bar stock. The steel used is a 4140 series hardened to a Rockwell of 28-32. Pre-hardened material is more difficult to work but it allows us to machine the receiver to exact tolerances and not lose those tolerances in subsequent heat treating.
..... “Blue printing” is not necessary if the action is manufactured properly and no amount of blue printing can resurrect a poorly made action.

seems that Pete Grisel not only made his pre hardened M98 receivers a little soft, but also did the same with the Dakota 76.
If one has to re-heatreat the receiver, then your likely to loose the exact tolerances one initially set out to create.

Our goal at Dakota Arms is quite simple – build the highest quality sporting arms available.

People are still waiting for that to happen.

The way Brno sliced metal away from the zg47 front receiver ring, has always made me question how much wall thickness is really required.

Me too, are we to assume that the front ring "reinforces" the barrel shank? Or is the barrel shank by itself strong enough to hold the pressure?

quote:

Originally posted by wyoske:
The way Brno sliced metal away from the zg47 front receiver ring, has always made me question how much wall thickness is really required.

Me too, are we to assume that the front ring "reinforces" the barrel shank? Or is the barrel shank by itself strong enough to hold the pressure?

The receiver walls don't add any appreciable hoop strength to the chamber area, the load is taken by the barrel itself. IOW if you could hold the base of the case firmly in the chamber when firing, even with no receiver ring at all, the firing would be perfectly normal. Imagine a tip-up single shot; an uncontained barrel shank of as little as 1" OD is quite ample for even a belted magnum.

The main function of the front receiver ring is to hold the barrel firmly against the bolt when firing. This requires strength in the logitudinal vector(direction) rather than any radial vector, so the deep longitudinal cuts of the ZG47 ring don't cause me any concern at all.
Regards, Joe

quote:

The main function of the front receiver ring is to hold the barrel firmly against the bolt when firing. This requires strength in the logitudinal vector(direction) rather than any radial vector, so the deep longitudinal cuts of the ZG47 ring don't cause me any concern at all.
Regards, Joe

I have not heard of any problems arising from the longitudinal cut atop the ZG47, nor have i heard any problems with the Mauser factory stepped front receiver ring.
Problems mostly arise from aftermarket modifications like; removing metal from behind stdM98 lug abutments to accommodate the long magnum rounds.

an orig. Oberndorf magnum mauser receiver with factory stepped front ring.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:The receiver walls don't add any appreciable hoop strength to the chamber area, the load is taken by the barrel itself. [...] Imagine a tip-up single shot; an uncontained barrel shank of as little as 1" OD is quite ample for even a belted magnum.

Remington's old "3 rings of steel" ads always made me wonder... As soon as I got a little ways through engineering school, I learned Santa wasn't real.