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What Matt said!      Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I for one now know it can take many years with little communication from the manufacture to receive a Satterlee action. | |||
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You and I and everyone on the forum now know that. If anyone fails to see the utility of this thread then you are simply blind. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Only if you trust the source of the information. I don't. -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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That is a huge problem with any of these internet smear campaigns. The thing that sets this one apart is Satterlee's silence. IWT he would, at the very least, drop in and post "due to circumstances out of my control refund of this Trax's order is not possible at this time." If that were in fact the case. I have no doubt that Satterlee is producing the finest updated Mauser actions ever produced, IMO(and I do hope he will continue to do so). When you run the numbers his actions are actually very reasonably priced. But the bottom line is that he has had too many accusations against him. How many small firearm businesses do you see have that have long term success following a rocky infancy?(Think Hein, A-Square, etc.) How many of the long term success stories had near spotless records?(Wiebe, Miller(the rifle building side), Echols, etc.) I wish I could believe that SA is clean and Trax is just some bastard spreading lies, but that just seems too far fetched. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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You are well within your rights to remain ignorant of Satterlees ongoing atrocious business practices. Satterlee in 2008 admitted to being a deceiver and a lair, when dealing with his AR customers. The source that confirms Satterlee is dishonest in business, is Satterlee himself.
Trax telling the truth about his dealings with Satterlee, is not what constitutes the nature of a smear campaign. Dikheads like FAST996 claiming there is a 'US Fed Gov OFAC Sanction' on Trax,...is an example of an attempted smear campaign. and an utterly dumb one at that. ..he has been unable to provide any Gov. document or Gov. database/source to indicate such a thing exists. And he remains too much of a coward to provide me his real name,...nuff said. Satterlees wife in a past PM to me, accused me of slandering them... When I asked her which part of my AR report was not true, the silence was deafening - she would not respond, ...nuff said. The reports by AR based customers of WFHein were not smear campaigns, Hein like Satterlee, would not provide a product, nor release customer money and refused to communicate with paid-up customers.
Satterlee has finally realized that his wide variety of past excuses for his growing list of business action failures - and his wife quoting Bible scripture,...does not cut it in the world of business. Now that a customer wont swallow such rubbish tactics, Stuart is clearly totally lost for words. Stuart cannot live in a world of self denial & distraction for ever,..He would have to be most nieve to think he can. Is Stuart deciding not to release a few thousand dollars of a customers money, really worth that much to him, compared to the long term grief & bad business reputation that it creates for Satterlee Arms? The ignorance & stupidity of some business owner/operators, never ceases to amaze me.
Satterlees debacle of his numerous 2006-2008 customer orders, are not mere accusations, they are are well proven incidents, involving numerous AR based customers of good repute. Satterlee acknowledged his errors and the blatant deception/lies he told to his customers and apologised to them on AR. ...with the additional pledge that he would have prompt delivery times and improve his level of customer service. Nothing of the pledge has taken place. To date; Stuart has not provided a completed action, nor the promised release of customer money [both being immensely overdue] and Satterlees reputation for poor communication, has reached the point where he just refuses to correspond to customers that he has financial obligation to. Stuart has used just about any excuse short of an 'alien invasion' as to why he can never do anything he promises to do. According to him,there has always been someone or something else to blame,..but himself of course. Now that he has run out of excuses, in his glib ignorance he simply refuses to communicate. He will not answer numerous PMs sent to over the last few months. His wife has hilariously quoted Bible scripture on numerous occasions,telling what a good man Stuart is, yet I see nothing Christian in the way Satterlee is ignoring his customer & business obligations. I can assure you that Satterlee blatantly refusing to face his well overdue business obligations, is not going to help his surmounting problems go away. It will only increase the level of grief and bad business reputation, that his name & shop will ultimately suffer. Satterlee Arms hangs precariously over the precipice and much the result of Stuarts own long term doing. | |||
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Theres nothing stopping Satterlee from posting on this thread,..except Satterlee himself. just as long as we dont get his bible quoting business partner wife posting and making no sense, as usual. | |||
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I will start on a titanium receiver project later this year. New Guy has a titanium receiver from Satterlee that is slick as a button. The secret is the coating on the titanium to keep it from being sticky. I called Stuart, talked to his wife briefly and then Stuart gave me the contact at Balzers and the person to talk to about it. I believe this was last week. I can't speak of other people, but he delivered my receiver promptly and the only time recently that I called him, he had time to visit with me. | |||
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I saw that FAST996 received his 2 barreled actions from Satterlee. Guess that's why he has been sticking up for Satterlee on this thread. When he was directly asked how long it took, he declined to answer. It would be interesting to know whether FAST996 or TRAX placed their order first. | |||
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You should go back and read this thread from the beginning. There's a lot more to it and I don't believe you're hearing the whole story from Trax whose character is very questionable. There are people who have confirmed Saterlee tried to return the funds as requested but couldn't. Saterlee has decided not to get into this publicly and I really don't blame him. Nothing good would come out of it either way. -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Having done wire transfers to and from Australia, I can tell you that they do not always go through the first time. Especially, if you use the smaller regional banks or a credit union. As I have read all or most of this thread, I know that Satterlee used a credit union. I personally switched to one of the large banks for international wire transfers because they have their own direct accts. Small banks do not. This thread was started Jan. 3rd, 2013. If Satterlee was serious about returning TRAX's money, he could have sent him a money order, a certified check or even a personal check by "Snail Mail". It would have arrived a long time ago! Businesses go through growing pains all of the time. Over extending and cash flow are big problems. They are not solved by lying or ignoring the problem. This debacle of Satterlee's is his own personal public relations nightmare. He brought it on himself and only he can fix it. His silence is deafening. | |||
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I guess ignorance is bliss....in a world where foreign nationals have their international bank ie Citibank, setup corresponding bank accounts in the U.S. and transfer money offshore with a keystroke. This whole do nothing tale of woe and intrigue is nothing but bullshit. You have a willing party who since Oct.16,17,18,19th 2012 has deposited funds to be transfered by Travelex...who is the largest transfer agent in the world and their compliance team cancelled the transfer. IT is NOW the foreign party's responsibility to set up a legal pathway to transfer funds. That CANNOT be done by Satterlee. http://www.travelex.com/us/ter...pliance-at-travelex/ http://www.fraudconference.com...tant-regulation.aspx http://www.fraudconference.com...7A-Dan-Tannebaum.pdf http://www.bankersonline.com/security/314-a_ofac.html http://www.citibank.com.au/aus...ansferring_money.htm You see there are plenty of options with out involving private third parties and is safe,secure,without liability for both parties involved. "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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Really?... what is questionable about my character..? I have done business with several people on AR and there have been no complaints voiced from them about doing business with Trax. However, the list of complaints about Satterlee are long & continuous.. and stretch back years. accordingly, it does not surprise that Stuart won't come to the AR forum. Theres nothing he could honestly say that would vindicate him. Stuart has already admitted to his customers that he has been deceptive and dishonest to them. If he cant stop being so dishonest its probably in his best interests just to say nothing.
That would be Duane.... [QUOTE]Originally posted by Duane Wiebe: I'm going to repect Stuart's request to NOT post copies of documents. But...take my word for it, I have seen these copies and refund was attempted but was somehow "refused" at a NSW bank in Australia. NO...I don't "get it"[QUOTE] Duane tells us Satterlee has shown him documents that the WT funds were rejected by a bank in the state of NSW. However, the fact remains I provided Satterlee on the 24th September[at his request] the details/location of my bank being; 'Collins Street,Docklands in the State of VICTORIA' ...where my account is officially registered. Considering the WT was apparently refused at a bank in the state of NSW, means it was not sent to the bank account address details, that I provided to Satterlee. Now if Satterlee was a reasonable,decent and co-operative business operator, he would reply to my messages to resolve the matter, of his long outstanding financial obligation to his customer. | |||
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Trax you are a liar! You have all the documents that have all the correct information. Shall I post them all?? Unredacted so all the world can see..... enough of this charade.....keep it up and feed the trolls but anybody who is familiar with transfers and international transactions know that you keep dodging the real question.....You can't do anything....your hands are tied and it is of your own doing. I'm out of here.....and those that aren't 2 bit trolls are too. "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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Yes do POST THEM. make sure you also post the document that Satterlee showed Duane Weibe, that indicates the WT was rejected at a NSW bank. because the bank where my account is held/registered, is not in the state of NSW. The bank details I gave Satterlee clearly indicate my account is registered with a bank in the state of VICTORIA. Also post the 'proof' you claim to have of the 'US Fed Gov. OFAC sanction'..against Trax. Id like to see such a US Fed.Gov. document. BY the way, why are you affraid to provide your real name to me? ..too much of a coward to stand behind your accusations toward me? Satterlee does not know how to run a business in a decent manner, ... and also makes the mistake of recruiting fools like you to defend him. as if Stuart hiding behind his wife while she hypocritically quotes the Bible was not silly enough.
my reply...
If the WT was rejected at a NSW bank as both Satterlee & Weibe claim, then it was clearly sent to the entirely wrong location. I cant be held responsible for that. | |||
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Mr. G....you have all the documents.... When I posted the denied transfer doc I redacted all your personal info including the reference to the agency that flagged the compliance team....out of respect for your privacy. You have them......if you want them posted you do it. Otherwise...... "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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You call me a liar and threaten to show documents to prove it....Which I have NO objection to... Now you are, too much of coward to post them, too much of coward to tell me your real name, ..and you are still unable to provide any official US gov. document that would indicate there is a 'US Fed Gov. OFAC sanction' on Trax,..that you claim prevents Satterlee from dealing with me. Is it Mr Bluff or is it Mr.Chickenshit that we should refer to you as? have you crawled back under your rock, or has Satterlee made room for you in the bunker he cowers in? | |||
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Good luck Mr. G "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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I think its very disturbing that Mr. Satterlee has not completed this transaction, either by providing the goods or by returning the money. However, after having read this entire thread, if I were him I wouldn't return the money either after having this whole sordid affair dragged out in public. I'd say to hell with it, as he apparently has, and wash my hands of it, as he apparently has. | |||
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Satterlee has had a mountain of time to do the right thing by his supportive customers over the yrs. He however chooses to maintain his legacy of craphouse business principles toward them. Satterlee had numerous negative posts [from his list of irate customers] about him in 2008. So he cant claim to be nieve as to what can happen when he chooses retain the craphouse business principles that result in AR members posting about his ongoing poor approach to business. Satterlee is free to maintain such an approach by way of ignoring his long overdue financial obligations, but he should be prepared to accept the long term grief that it will bring to his name and business. Satterlee begging Trax to stop posting and his wife quoting Bible and claiming victim status, and both of them blatantly failing to address the issues that cause their business to suffer, is not a sensible or mature way to solve the inherent problems in ones business model. Satterlees current poor reputation on AR is the least of his problems. For it appears he has opted for the very long,hard and costly road for himself,...so be it. | |||
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  "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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FAST996, You have so far failed to answer the following questions: When did you order your barreled actions from Satterlee? Why do you insist that TRAX's money has to be returned by wire transfer? If there is some sort of Gov't order against Satterlee contacting TRAX in any way, speak up. TRAX has asked you for that info. If all you can do is name calling and personal attacks then I might suggest that it is you that should climb back down under your bridge. | |||
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"A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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I thought it was TRAX that wanted his funds returned this way. I agree, a USPS international M/O would be the easiest way to solve this problem. -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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You can't believe anything Trax says. He had the gall to badmouth my Jaguar convertible a couple years ago. | |||
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Now Rich, Bad mouthing a Jag is easy to do. | |||
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A friend of mine had one back in the early eighties. I thought it was a pretty nice car...after they tore out the engine and installed a Chevy 350 in it with a turbo 350.  -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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It looks like Fast996 ordered his Satterlee actions sometime before he registered on AR. In his own words...
If Fast996 is satisfied with a 5-7 year delivery time, that's his business. I do think it's fair to point out the delivery time was said to be 10 months when the order was placed. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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The wire transfer has been sent? isn't that like saying the check is in the mail? No really its in the Mail. Here is my proof of mailing. Well so what. You owe me money its your responsibility to ensure it reaches me. Paperwork isn't payment. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trax: It is coming to 4yrs now that Satterlee has failed to fullfill a pre-paid order[august 2009] order that was estimated by him to take a few months to complete[Jan-April 2010] BY August 2011, I was feed up with Satterlees poor progress and poor communication, so a refund was requested and agreed to. After a list of excuses by Satterlee and a much ensued struggle, I managed to get Satterelee to act on his word. He eventually attempted a refund by wire transfer in Sept/Oct 2012. For some internal banking reason, the WT failed. following that, on October 20th and December 6th 2012, I sent PMs to Satterlee to suggest/request use of alternative methods to help facilitate the release of my money from Satterlee. I have heard nothing back. - Seems its all too hard for Satterlee to respond." The above quote is from the post that started this thread. 1. FAST996 seems to have ordered his barreled actions about 2 yrs. before TRAX. At this rate TRAX is not going to see anything until at least 2014! 2. TRAX obviously is not insisting on getting his money back by wire transfer. 3. Why does Satterlee's web-site quote two different prices for actions and some are listed as "In stock and available for quick delivery". Seem a bit deceptive? | |||
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I placed the order for my 450 Rigby in late 2007 and my 416 Rigby in the first quarter of 2008. The promised time was 3 years. I then asked Stuart how much longer,he did tell me to expect a while longer which was fine for me. I always wanted the barreled actions more than the money. Stuart and me worked out a time table at the beginning of 2012 and he was true to his word and worked on Sundays to get these done. I then placed another order with Stuart as these actions are the best I have seen. No excuses here,but I never really pressed Stuart,but we did have one heart 2 heart talk at the start of 2012. Stuart knew what I expected and he was a man of his word. "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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I'm happy for you but it seems to validate Trax's contentions regarding failures to keep delivery time promises. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Howard, I wanted the actions,I did not want a GMA,Prechtl,or H&W. I really didn't care how long it took and maybe I'm the one of the few. I just expected the delivery to take a long time. It did take longer yes,but Stuart understood and I made it clear that having the actions was most important to me. I trust Stuart, and he appreciates that I let him finish the actions. You have to love what your doing every day to go it alone in business. I had a mid sized company and enjoyed 70 + employees and hundreds of customers. The only time I'll enjoy solitude is when I'm in the ground. My hat's off to all the one man shops that have the talent to build a complete rifle from scratch. "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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true(maybe not everyday  ) | |||
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@FAST996 Have you ever wondered about how your customers in your company would have reacted, if you asked them to prepay the next 7 years of buying. To some ekstend i can follow that a custombuilder, want the customer to prepay parts and services that the smith has to buy externally. But the fact that a builder demands prepayment up to 7 years ahead, for work entirely done by the smith himselv, is completly lunacy. If a company gets into a position where they dont have further incomes for the next 7 years. Please tell me their motivation, or capability to survive. Bankloans to small companys would be werry uninteresting if someone could lure ther customers to finance all investments and labourcosts for the next 7 years, and also totally for free. | |||
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I have absolutely no real idea what all the hubbub is about with this thread. I have now read it may have something to do with an international wire transfer. Having had a little more than a passing knowledge in this area I can well speak that there can be myriad problems with them even when all precautions are taken. I have had LARGE problems with lost funds in both Botswana and Zimbabwe with all parties saying they were not at fault and me with no way to prove otherwise. This thread begins to appoach the title of one of William Faulkners Books, 'The Sound and the Fury' and really goes to Shakspeares original quotation in MacBeth - life is tale told by and idiot of the sound and the fury signifying absolutely nothing - or close enough. Nuff is anuff SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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If a person is happy to pay a deposit and wait years passed the promised delivery date great. Their choice and that is fine. If another person is not ok to wait that is fine and their choice also. In either case the personality, mindset, actions, inaction etc of the customer are irrelevant. The customer is always right and their behavior is irrelevant with respect to the proper actions of the businessperson. Doesn't matter how much the customer lies, blows out of proportion or overreacts. That is a reflection upon them as a person and has nothing to do with the business; their actions, statements and promises. Likewise it is irrelevant how patient or satisfied another customer is. Why should I be content to wait simply because someone else was? You can't assume that what is acceptable for you is acceptable for others. I would love to have a Satterlee action. In fact I would love to have two, a right and a left. However I am 47 years old. I assume I have 20 years of hunting ability left to me. If I order an action today and wait five plus years for it then the use I get from the action has be reduced by 25%. Most people won't look at it that way and I am sure that many will disagree with placing a time value on it. That is fine, however its my money and the time to use is a factor in how I spend it. Meeting delivery dates is important to me. Doesn't matter how Trax goes about anything, by any reasonable standard of business practices he is entitled to a refund. Satterlee agrees as evidenced by their attempts to provide one. At the start of the business relationship it was the customer, Trax's, responsibility to ensure that the business, Satterlee, received the deposit. Likewise it's the businesses responsibility to ensure that the customer receives the refund. Considering Satterlee's record of broken promises, failed delivery dates etc it is a reasonable assumption to make that all these "issues" are simply delaying and covering tactics. I really don't think it's a secret considering his failure to deliver that Satterlee has cash flow issues. I suspect they simply don't have the funds to refund. I get and understand cash flow problems. What I don't understand is how a one man shop consistently failures to produce a steady stream of product. I suspect that most of Satterlee's business problems would go away if he would just work an actual eight hour day on production. Either way none of my business but I hope Trax gets his refund and that Satterlee gets his affairs in order and can deliver a steady stream of product. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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It was not 7 years,I don't know where that came from. I first ordered these in Stuart's African action and then in 2008 changed to the Mauser magnum action. These 2 rifles are .750 bolt diameters and Stuart hadn't even made that action yet. Stuart told me 3 years for two actions,that would make delivery in 2011. I'm not going to quibble about 1 year on these Mausers built to my specs with full integral barrels. I hope Trax's problem is resolved. I would even help Trax with communication if that is possible. These internet pressure campaigns are a two edged sword. My feeling is I never want to crap in my own oatmeal. Stuart answers his phone,anybody with questions about his current backlog and availability should call him. It's been 5 years since all this blew up and things do change. Stuart has customers that are the premiere rifle builders in the country. Change is good and eyes have been opened on both sides. http://forums.accuratereloadin...1019521/m/4781065281 PHONE: 605.584.2189 EMAIL: stujac@hills.net SATTERLEE ARMS 21593 Pahkamaa Road Deadwood, SD 57732 "A long life, and the good sense to live it." ...Quintis Arrius 375H&H,404J,416DAK,458AFR,416RIG,450RIG,505GIB Avatar: Gregory Peck & Susan Hayward in Africa NRA member | |||
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I can answer that question.....I would no longer be building custom guns. Very few customers have any idea the amount of overhead that goes into running a shop. Without a down payment and payments along the way for progress, it would be impossible for me to keep the lights on. The only custom gunmakers that would be left would be the independently wealthy ones, and those are few and far between. Steve Bertram | |||
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No actually you would have to put up a year or two of your life savings as operating overhead to finance the business. With that kind of commitment I am sure you would be very careful with your time management. Holding on to a customer's money for inordinate lengths of time is the same as accepting an interest free loan. I understand that you must do some of that due to the weaselly nature of some customers. I know you cannot you cannot sell something that is custom for one guy to someone that thinks a custom is something else. | |||
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