The Accurate Reloading Forums
Best caliber below 30-06?
01 January 2020, 04:57
df06Best caliber below 30-06?
I voted 25/06, because 257 weatherby was not a choice.
Both are very flat shooters, reasonable recoil, deadly on game smaller than elk, and will kill any coyote in sight.
NRA Patron member
01 January 2020, 08:51
TimanI voted for the 6.5 Creedmoor, good overall balance in speed, accuracy, barrel life, recoil. A good one.
04 January 2020, 06:24
Alec TorresI have a small number of hunting rifles... .404 Jeffery (being built), 338-'06, 7mm RM, a 6.5 X 55 and two .257 Roberts. The pretty much cover the ground for me.
Accordingly, I would recommend the .257 Remington Roberts.
04 January 2020, 17:21
mdstewartI voted for the 6.5CM. Mine is in a Browning X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed with muzzle brake. Virtually no recoil and .5” MOA. Super lightweight stalking rifle topped with a Vortex 4-12. Just a perfect set up. Plus, my son loves shooting it. Trying to keep these young folks interested.
JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72
David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore
Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55
Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06
Walther PPQ H2 9mm
Walther PPS M2
Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus
And Too Many More
04 January 2020, 18:46
DuggaBoyemost durable candidates to this point and one would surmise into the next 30+ years for smaller would be:
243 and 270 (and not just in the USA)
i have all the ones listed and have shot them extensively , my current favorite being a 6,5
(it too will most likely be around, i think the other two just a bit more accessible)
DuggaBoye-O
NRA-Life
Whittington-Life
TSRA-Life
DRSS
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SCI
04 January 2020, 20:17
SliderI Voted 6.5mm. We have three. A Creed,260 and a 264 Win Mag.A 6.5/06 is also a good one.
04 January 2020, 21:04
44magLeoI chose the 25-06. Never had one but the longer range ballistics look good.
The 243, I can do anything it can do with my 250 Savage.
The rest I have.
Leo
The only way to know if you can do a thing is to do it.
04 January 2020, 22:22
Nathan ChambersI fully agree with Duane in his earlier post of the 270wCF being one of the few cartridges that sends different weights of bullets close to the same point of impact I was really shocked when I shot a very accurate 308 Winchester at the wide dispersal of the different weight of bullets.
05 January 2020, 02:27
smallfryVersatile? I’d pick the .243 except I’d make it a 6mm CM or if you do a 243 at least twist it right. You have everything else well covered with the 06 and 375 and really the 243/6mm would serve you just fine on deer, varmints, Black bear and elk if you wanted. The only other choice that would be better for me in that 3 gun would be a 223.
I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever.
Take care.
smallfry
05 January 2020, 04:16
dgr416The 260 rem is awesome .I use it with heavy weight bullets 155 ,156 and 160 grain bullets .It kills beyond belief and is super accurate .My savage 260 shoots under 1 inch groups at 200 yards and sometimes 300 if I do my part .It does not kick hard and my rifles are not heavy .I used the 338 win mag 33 years now I think the 260 rem with heavy bullets is my favorite .My rifle weighs 7.5 pounds with a 4x12 Nikon on it .Everyone that shot my rifles from kids to women to adults loved shooting them .I am building my last hunting rifle on a ruger 77 tang safety my favorite gun .Give the 260 a try with heavy bullets it's aweome !
05 January 2020, 04:37
kaytodThere are many that would do well as an understudy to the '06.
I really like the old 7x57, yet it still shoots bullet weights near that of the '06, so it has an overlap there of sorts.
However, years ago I got my first 6.5x55 and found it to be a great little round as an understudy to the '06. Bullet weights are from the 90 grain weight up to the 160 grain weight too. Pretty wide selection like the 7mm or the 30's . However the bullets in 120-140 grain are best when paring with the '06 ( IMHO ). Some bullets can be a bit tougher for the larger game or the later .264 mag. Yet there are still varmint bullets too. Not to mention a good selection of Match bullets, which is lacking in the only other caliber that fits the niche I perceive here, the .257.
Neither would be a bad choice, but I still give the nod to the 6.5 out of personal preference. There are plenty of good cartridges in that range. The classic 6.5x55 Swede, the 260 Rem or the newer 6.5 Creedmoor are seemingly the most prevalent. Not a lot of difference in overall performance in modern guns, but each has it's own merits. I don't think you'd go wrong with any of them.
Then again, if you find the .257 more to your liking the 250 Savage or Ackley version is a great little round, as is the 257 Roberts and it's Ackley variant are very efficient and are a delight. Then there is the 25 Souper (25-08) and the 25-06. The quarter bore '06 is a pretty hot little number too and not to be overlooked.
Good luck picking one.
06 January 2020, 03:05
Vol717223, or rather .223 Wylde. It will shoot .233 and 5.56 accurately. The external ballistics on the 165 grain .30/06 and the 55 grain 5.56 are so close out to 400 yds that they are practically the same. I have a Blaser R8 with these calibers. They have identical scopes. It simplifies hunting and shooting for me.
Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two
06 January 2020, 06:35
Beretta682Equote:
Originally posted by Vol717:
223, or rather .223 Wylde. It will shoot .233 and 5.56 accurately. The external ballistics on the 165 grain .30/06 and the 55 grain 5.56 are so close out to 400 yds that they are practically the same. I have a Blaser R8 with these calibers. They have identical scopes. It simplifies hunting and shooting for me.
very Interesting
I am setting up my blaser r8 to shoot 300 meters. It loves Hornady black 62 grain.
I will shoot my 30/06 barrel at same hold over points and see how they shoot.
Mike
06 January 2020, 08:42
SnellstromI used and still use at times a 30/06 for many years and the killing power of the 30/06 is world renowned. It covers a lot of medium game very well so a choice under it should be several calibers below the '06.
I'd pick the .243 as a first choice, 25/06 as a 3rd choice and ask that you consider the 257 Roberts.
I wouldn't go below the .243 because at least it is considered a game rifle everywhere (all 50 states I believe or at least the ones that allow rifles).
My opinion only....
07 January 2020, 09:56
10generationThis is great feedback.
I'm thinking the 6.5CM or the 7x57/7mm mauser might be next in the stable. Feels like enough difference from the 06, but still very capable.
22 January 2020, 22:48
AtkinsonOoops not feed back just fun bull shit..Every one of these calibers is equal within hunting specs, only the 6mms and hot 22 are questionable but Ive had good luck with them when used within reason...All have advantages and disadvantages, none of which mean a whole lot except on the internet..hating a caliber is time to take a couple of Aspirin and a long nap..your overworked. If you stick a bullet into the heart lungs brain spine of a bull elk at up to 200 or even 300 yards, maybe a bit more with any of these caliber you have made meat.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
22 January 2020, 22:56
Atkinsongood choice, Id go with the 7x57..it such a fine caliber and in a pinch will kill anything on earth with a properly placed shot, a major requirement with any caliber.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
27 July 2020, 22:28
JabaliHunterI think that as you have a nice .30-06 and assuming that you enjoy shooting and hunting with it, then I’d get a .243 to complement your battery.
If you don’t use the .30-06 much, then I’d consider one of the other options mentioned above, 6.5 Creedmoor, .270, 7x57 or .308
27 July 2020, 23:43
boom stickTo have an African theme, I went with 7x57.
If Africa is not in the equation, based on what you have, I would go 6.5 creedmoor but would be tempted by a 257 Roberts but that was not listed.
28 July 2020, 00:14
PeglegMy 270 shoots lights out. I can hold the ten ring at 300yds. with it and that instills great confidence.
I'm partial to the 140gr. pills.
My choice to the OP would be the 6.5 X 55 though.
The only easy day is yesterday!
28 July 2020, 02:46
358WCFCreedmoor, Creedmore, Creedmoor... only kidding.
I voted 25-06 for an all around cartridge because the 7mms & 270 aren't really all that much different than the old 06. The 243 is OK, but I've never really been all that wild about 6mms for other than varmints or targets. The 25-06 spans varmint to medium/big game without special twists or overly long bullets better than all the rest IMO. Either the 260 or 7x57 was a thought but the normal weight range 6.5 or 7mm varmint bullets aren't nearly as good ballistically as the 25s at 25-06 speeds.
28 July 2020, 03:55
crbutlerPersonally, none of the above.
A .30-06 will do everything and you don’t gain much with other big game guns.
One could make an argument for the .25-06 or .243 as a “heavy varmint” gun with some big game overlap.
The niche under the .30-06 is properly a varmint gun, and probably the best choice for a custom with ammo availability would be a .22-250.
.223 would also be usable, but they are so common as factory guns that a custom is kind of besides the point.
Some folks shoot deer and pronghorn with .22 CF’s if you really feel the need for some generalization, but the point (as I read it) is you have the 06 to shoot game with. The new gun is for something the 06 doesn’t address well, and you have heavier already addressed.
So a custom heavy varminter.
I like the .220 Swift and the homely .223 WSSM, but they are not commonly available ammo.
28 July 2020, 10:12
Heym SR20Think not so much calibre, but the type and style of rifle and the type of hunting you do. The 30-06 in a sporter weight is a very very versatile rifle, but a 7x57, 270, 7x64, 280 or 308 would do the same thing.
You could build a really nice lightweight smaller deer, walkabout rifle in 243. I have a little Heym SR20 with a 3-9x36 Swarovski and it just right for pottering about after a Roe Buck, but will still handle fallow or Red if required.
I am currently building a heavyish barrelled 223, as a cheap to run longer range plinking gun for the range, but would also do for foxing or Roe.
But I also have my eye on an old Rook rifle in 22 Hornet for the same sort of role.
28 July 2020, 11:28
boom stickThis one?
https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=101472789https://www.theexplora.com/wes...-rook-rabbit-rifles/quote:
Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Think not so much calibre, but the type and style of rifle and the type of hunting you do. The 30-06 in a sporter weight is a very very versatile rifle, but a 7x57, 270, 7x64, 280 or 308 would do the same thing.
You could build a really nice lightweight smaller deer, walkabout rifle in 243. I have a little Heym SR20 with a 3-9x36 Swarovski and it just right for pottering about after a Roe Buck, but will still handle fallow or Red if required.
I am currently building a heavyish barrelled 223, as a cheap to run longer range plinking gun for the range, but would also do for foxing or Roe.
But I also have my eye on an old Rook rifle in 22 Hornet for the same sort of role.
28 July 2020, 16:16
jeffeossoquote:
$6500 for a pest rifle? i reckon it could be o .. but, guys, the rook rifles are meant for rooks (crows) and hares .. in the back garden or off a food plot... ballistics of about a $50 import pellet rifle ...
but while we are on "rook rifles" - there was a thing called a park gun, which tend to be repeaters in small calibers, for about the same purpose .. which is why i built my 7,62x25 destroyer !!!
28 July 2020, 20:38
Haverluk6.5x55 covers a lot of territory and is my sub .30-06 choice.
28 July 2020, 21:28
Russ GouldThe 243 is an abomination .. and I have no use for a 30-06 either. The former because it is overbore and has a short neck; the latter because it's neither fish nor fowl. It's meant for killing men, too much for deer sized stuff, and not enough really for moose/eland etc.
There is also not much point in having a 404 and a 375. They are effectively the same thing, with the 404 having an edge on DG but not as good as the 375 for longer shots on plains game.
If it were me, I would go with a peep sighted 22 Hornet or a 25-20 for camp; a scoped bolt 250 Savage or 257 Robts for longer range work on everything up to kudu; and a double in 450-400 or 470 for serious work.
Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear
28 July 2020, 23:53
Russ Gouldseriously, if plentiful cheap ammo is the main criterion, then your choices have to be 22lr, 223, and 308.
Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear
31 July 2020, 10:15
lindy2You don't need a custom. Just find yourself a Winchester Classic Compact in .308, put a decent scope on it, and stock up on all of the various bullet weights offered. As you grow older you will appeciate the lightness and ease of carry of those little guns. The .308 is a very versatile caliber and very east to buy ammunition for if you don't want to reload anymore.
31 July 2020, 12:02
DCS Memberquote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
seriously, if plentiful cheap ammo is the main criterion, then your choices have to be 22lr, 223, and 308.
Those seem to be the most picked over calibers or with ridiculous prices now, based upon a recent trip to Academy. Pistol rounds such as 9mm, .40, and .45 are also in short supply.
I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.
Marcus Cady
DRSS
7MM-08 this cartage covers a lot of ground,
if you had a 708 you dont NEED a 260, 270, win .280 rem, 7x57 25-06 or 308.
but I do shoot a 260 and 308 I have 2 7MM-08s
01 August 2020, 19:53
SabretoothVERY good question, sir. I own all three: 280, 7x57 , and 30-06. Excluding the 30-06, here is my two cents.
280 is slightly better than a 270. Not as flat trajectory as a 270 and able to shoot higher velocities in a heavier bullet.
280 is capable of delivering energy nearly equal to the 30-06 but with a lighter bullet. 280 is suitable for hunting any north american game, with the exception of a grizzly bear.
Regarding the 7x57, Karamajo Bell was able to bag a TON of elephants with a 7mm mauser cartridge. I personally own a 7x57 and it is my "go to "hunting rifle". Flat shooting cartridge, not near as much recoil as a 270 or 280, but will get the job done.
If had to choose between two and it came down to the wire , you cannot go wrong with a 7x57 or 280.
Hard choice. I am more of an independent and lean to the side where others are not. Everyone owns a 270, but not all have a 280....
04 August 2020, 06:32
lee440Not on the list, but the 257 Roberts seems a natural and combines varmint/deer capabilities which seems to be the hole in your collection. I have shot a lot of Texas whitetails and hogs with both the 243 and the 257 and the 257 just works better to me. Just a sweetheart of a classic caliber.
DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.)
N.R.A (Life)
T.S.R.A (Life)
D.S.C.
07 August 2020, 03:51
ScrollcutterDuane,
I have to say that the .243 is one of my favorite cartridges! I've had at least one in my safe for over 40 yrs.
One of the best coyote cartridges made ...bigger game? Bump the caliber up. Experience has taught me that it's a bit light for big game.
Roger Kehr
Kehr Engraving Company
(360)456-0831
07 August 2020, 04:04
Mike_Dettorre270 - any 7mm is to close to the the 30-06 and anything smaller than 270 is just not versatile enough.
Mike
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
07 August 2020, 08:21
NormanConquestI still have to go with the 7X57.
Never mistake motion for action.
07 August 2020, 08:32
surefire7Well, the 270 and 7mm rounds are definitely more versatile than the 25-06 that I voted for, but the OP already has a 30-06, which is more versatile than either of the other two, with bullet weights from 55 to 250 gr.
We rifle nuts are as different as the many calibers at out disposals, so I guess it's all just personal preference...
07 August 2020, 12:10
jlabreck7316quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Another of my personal hunting rifle criteria is that I don't want something that someone else will have in the field. That is boring.
And I never take the same rifle twice; like women and shoes at parties.
Nor do I carry anything off the rack, except double rifles.
(I don't really have anything against the 270; just that it is common.) Please, no more hate mail.
Be unique.
I’m with you. I own two .270s, but both end in Weatherby, not Winchester, and I have them because I collect Weatherby rifles. I never have and probably never will own a .270 Win, because it’s just too boring, in my opinion, and nothing special in any department. Capable, sure, but the .275 Rigby/7x57mm is the better choice.
If the OP wants a sub-30 caliber that is highly flexible with bullet weights, a .257 Weatherby is hard to beat, especially for antelope or goats. If you can’t bring yourself to buy a Weatherby, then the .25-06 Rem and .25 WSSM are also interesting choices with good flexibility and power. Just not quite the reach or power of the .257. A Model 70 Featherweight in either caliber would be an excellent choice for a light packing rifle, and a lot more interesting. So is the .264 Win Mag, also available in the M70 FW.
But if it has to be on the list, .25-06. The .30-06 can do everything the .270 and 7x57mm can, but even better, especially with Superformance ammo.
07 August 2020, 22:22
JohnlyI have just about everything on the choice list, but I would choose the 25-06. A well place 110 gr. Nosler Accubond at 3200 fps or a 100 gr. Nosler BT at 3400 fps will put meat in the freezer.
If you had .338 rather than a 30-06, I would have picked a 280, or 280AI
John in Oregon
08 August 2020, 07:50
Use Enough Gun270 Winchester for all of the reasons that Duane gave.
