Hello

Can you tell me about older Jarrett Rifles built on actions other what he is producing now? What kind of accuracy can you expect really? Does their rifles live up to their claims?

Thank You!
Mark

He has a following on SCI, outside of that not any real following from the F-Class, Precision rifle folks (my niche).

He makes accurate rifles if you are a hunter, not if you are a competitor.

His prices are full throttle compared to the fact that hundreds of other smiths do the exact same thing.

He is of the school that thinks that gunsmithing is black magic, and every thing he does is a top secret method, only he does.

Kind of over smith's like this.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
He has a following on SCI, outside of that not any real following from the F-Class, Precision rifle folks (my niche).

He makes accurate rifles if you are a hunter, not if you are a competitor.

His prices are full throttle compared to the fact that hundreds of other smiths do the exact same thing.

He is of the school that thinks that gunsmithing is black magic, and every thing he does is a top secret method, only he does.

Kind of over smith's like this.

BWW, guess what? I agree with you.
Back in the day Harold Broughton told me how happy he was when he sold his barrel making equipment to Kenny. He chuckled and said he could now buy or build modern machines to make his barrels.

I don't get the allure of the "big name" smiths. Jarrett is one of them, but there are others, to include smaller companies focused on long range rifles that sell for 6-7K. Truthfully, you can buy a custom action, a good bbl, McM stock, Jewell trigger, et al, and be into it for about half that cost. I have always used 'smiths who are competitive long range shooters themselves and never regretted it.

It is hard to see how these long range rifle companies can come up with their prices when they've essential just assembled other companies parts together (maybe slightly more to it than that ). However, one benefit of choosing a big name might be the re-sale value of the rifle. Your local smith's name will likely not carry the same weight when you need to hawk the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by MNR:
It is hard to see how these long range rifle companies can come up with their prices when they've essential just assembled other companies parts together (maybe slightly more to it than that ). However, one benefit of choosing a big name might be the re-sale value of the rifle. Your local smith's name will likely not carry the same weight when you need to hawk the gun.

Names only if you are buying to sell. I can't think of hardly any that I would pay more for with a synthetic stock. A couple guys on the forum only.

I was there in the beginning,late eighties early nineties. Although he is a good machinist he missed his calling as a used car salesman. They WILL shoot accurately, but so will almost ANY rifle if you handload specifically for that gun. His old number one man is just down the road building just as good a gun. Can't blame a man for charging a lot if people are willing to stand in line to give it to you. For the money i'd call John.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
He has a following on SCI, outside of that not any real following from the F-Class, Precision rifle folks (my niche).

He makes accurate rifles if you are a hunter, not if you are a competitor.

His prices are full throttle compared to the fact that hundreds of other smiths do the exact same thing.

He is of the school that thinks that gunsmithing is black magic, and every thing he does is a top secret method, only he does.

Kind of over smith's like this.

BWW, guess what? I agree with you.
Back in the day Harold Broughton told me how happy he was when he sold his barrel making equipment to Kenny. He chuckled and said he could now buy or build modern machines to make his barrels.

Butch, we probably agree on a lot more than that. But I won't hold it against you!

Well..Colorado..now you have been given the info that he charges too much and he released potential in barrel making equipment that befuddled the previous owner.

Envy was vented and your question was unanswered..about normal

Well some may have been satisfied with those rifles but I know that I have I have worked on more than one that was pretty well phuqued up and discovered a lot of work that was charged for but not completed or attempted. Beanfield, my azz

Duane and Jim:

If one is going to spend the big bucks (north of $3500) to me it makes more sense to put it into the "art" than the "engineering." After all, the engineering part of building an accurate rifle is well understood by a variety of smiths, but just because you are a good machinist doesn't mean you are an artist.

I have used two smiths the past five years who build very accurate rifles (1.5 inch three shot groups at 500 yards is my standard) for around $3500. Both are competitive long range range shooters (one I get see shoot every Friday morning during our 500 yard practice sessions). They don't have the name, but they know what they are doing. Do they make rifles as beautiful as you two? No. None of my long range rifles sit in my trophy room bookshelf gun rack.

If you want a really accurate rifle, you don't have to pay $7K for it.

This kind of reminds me of a similar debate: are Perazzi shotguns worth the money? What if you took a solid action and had a custom stock fitted? Would that not be better for you?

Duane

You"r right! I am looking for real hands on experience with his builds. Like the one I had with your builds! I worked at Suters House of Guns in Colorado Springs and had the pleasure of handling the 416 rigby you built for the SCI raffle! A great well to do gentleman bought it and brought it in. I was sick when he told me that to sight it in he used a step ladder and the first shot it bounced back and forth between the steps!!! I will also add, Tom and Jack, who taught me some gunsmithing, had a favorite great saying about other smiths, "they know what their work is worth!" I never forgotten that! I'll pay for reputation as quality work usually come with it!

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Well..Colorado..now you have been given the info that he charges too much and he released potential in barrel making equipment that befuddled the previous owner.

Envy was vented and your question was unanswered..about normal

What envy? I am not a professional gunsmith. I used to be an armorer in the military, he is doing no black magic I am aware of.

I stated his rifles are not in the accuracy rifle circles among gunsmiths.

It is public record what the majority of PRS, F-Class, F-TR, Palma and whatnot guys are shooting. He isn't a major advertiser in Eastmans Journal, Hunting Fool or any other Western big game (and cross-over long range) magazine out there. Everything he does it centric to Safari Club and maybe DSC.

David Miller started long range hunting in the west (among others) phenominon, Kenny did what others did at the time, and copied him and sold it on the east coast.

Kenny makes $11,000 rifles that aren't much more than a 3 lug 700, slapped into a McMillan with freckle paint and a barrel. Last time I talked to him (about 7 or 8 years ago) he didn't even tell you the load he used to work up for the rifle. You had to buy your ammo from him.

http://www.jarrettrifles.com/gun-vault.html

Ridge Walker
$11,533.10

He can fucking die for $11,533.10 on a McMillan stocked rifle 700 clone gun.

He doesn't even use a decent mount, trigger and his barrels are so tight you can't shoot factory ammo out of them. I know several gun writers who have written this in print more than once.

You can buy a Gunwerks that is finished beautifuly for about $3000 less. This would include the best Nightforce ATACR or Schmidt Bender PMII 5-25.

You can build a rifle with better parts for less than $6500 with the best Nightforce ATACR or Schmidt Bender PMII 5-25.

Here's a ballpark for a 300 Win Mag:

Nesika, Surgeon, Stiller, Defiance, American Mausingfield, Bighorn whatever action $950-1650
Jewell, Huber, Timney, Shilen, Bix N'Andy trigger $100-550
McMillan or Manners stock $450-650 for a hunting one
Barrel installed by damn near anyone fluted, crowned, threaded with a muzzle break $850-1400
Cerakote you could use the same dogshit colors Kenny uses $200-450 tops
A Swarovski like he sells is $1600-2500 or a Swarovski Z8i is $3300.
Scope mounts with something like Near mounts or something better $150-500.
Most guys charge around $450 to do load development on a magnum, some will be less than $200.

My number is $4300 to $7700 scoped out the door, or if you wanted load development tacked on $4750-8150. Scope cost is the biggest variable, the rest will only slide the number $1000 up or down.

Fucking used car sales man. I can build a superior rifle from a wide variety of different vendors and do it for half.

Not sure what they are asking for it,

https://www.longriflesinc.com/cart

A Mausingfield long action (more expensive option $1600) for $4589 figuring a $350 barrel blank, fluted, muzzle brake, mausingfield rings, cerakote, McMillan glass and pilar bedded, and a Bix and Andy Trigger ($500).

Pretty top end build on every compontant $4589.

Even if you went whole hog and bought a $4500 Schmidt Bender 5-25 PM2 with a H59 reticle at full retail you would still only be at $9000.

A Mauserfeld is the ugliest receiver and bolt knob ever built!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Well some may have been satisfied with those rifles but I know that I have I have worked on more than one that was pretty well phuqued up and discovered a lot of work that was charged for but not completed or attempted. Beanfield, my azz

I'm almost certain there are gunsmiths that would say the same about your work.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Well some may have been satisfied with those rifles but I know that I have I have worked on more than one that was pretty well phuqued up and discovered a lot of work that was charged for but not completed or attempted. Beanfield, my azz

I'm almost certain there are gunsmiths that would say the same about your work.

Chuck, that certainly hasn't been my experience.

BWW:

I just looked at the invoice for my .338 Lapua built by Jeff Miles. Stiller action w 20 MOA rail, McM stock, Brux bbl, Badger bottom metal, Holland brake, Jewel trigger, and all labor to put it together: $3822. Last group I fired went 1.9 inches at 500 yards fired prone with a bipod, but I am still breaking in the barrel.

But hey, my Savage Lapua does 1.5 out of the box. My Rem Sendero in .300 RUM does that with only a Vais brake and custom bedding job from Gordy Gritters. The .338 Edge Gordy built me is also as accurate, albeit a bit more spendy.

The point being, you don't have to pay big bucks for accurate rifles. 11K?? Are you kidding me?

AZ Writer,Please post some photos of your 500yd groups. Witnessed of course.

I don't post pics but if someone wants to post it, I have one handy from my Edge - it is actually 1.25 inches. But I don't have a witness other the boys who shoot every Friday at the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club.

Frankly, Dave, you are obviously accusing me of lying, so why don't you just raise the bullshit flag?

You own a software company and you can't post pictures??

Just have your fellow shooters witness the targets next time you shoot.

I don't have a photobucket account, and I am not signing up for one. I am not on FB either, but I did buy 500 shares for $30/sh

Wow! This thread got heated quick!! I think you touched on something though AZWriter mentioning your Savage that shot incredibly well out of the box. Fact is some factory rifles shoot quite well and though (to the discriminating eye) they look crude and aren't built to the customer's specs, they can do the same job that a custom rifle accomplishes which costs 3 to 4 times as much. I believe part of every custom builders job is salesmanship. We need to convince people to pay a lot more for something that shoots the same piece of lead down range as the cheaply made factory gun. Obviously we see value in our own work and believe that our product is worth the extra cost, but we're salesman nonetheless. Some are much better salesman than others, Jarrett being one of them. As I mentioned before though, his salesmanship is of great benefit to his customers because he's created a brand that people are willing to pay for when rifles are re-sold.

I've had no first hand experience with them though, so like the others I haven't helped you Colorado Good luck though.

AZ,

Weak answer. You seem like you are squirming a little.

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
AZ,

Weak answer. You seem like you are squirming a little.

Dave:

Squirming about what? I am not sure what your point is, other than calling me a liar, but too "squeamish" to say so. If someone other than Dave W wants to shoot me a PM with their email, I will be happy to forward the picture. But I suppose since it isn't signed by Donald J Trump, it will seem a little weak to Dave.

MNR: I agree the Savage is a bit crude, but it shoots. At the same time, I don't mind spending money on custom guns. My point is, as is BWW's, you don't need to spend 7K let alone 11K to get an accurate rifle. Like I said, find a smith who competes at long range and I bet you will be happy. Spend the cash you saved for a custom walnut stock, metal work, etc.

One more thing: most LR rifles are barrel burners; not sure I would want to buy a used one unless I was okay with rebarreling it or could get a professional opinion by a competent smith with a borescope.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
A Mauserfeld is the ugliest receiver and bolt knob ever built!

It is ergonomically amazing. But I do agree!

Reminds me of the hunter who went to Africa with one box of ammo for his custom built Jarrett rifle, because he only wanted to shoot a handful of animals.

Apparently he fired most of the box on day trying to kill a warthog.

He forgot that an accurate rifle is only accurate in the right hands

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Well some may have been satisfied with those rifles but I know that I have I have worked on more than one that was pretty well phuqued up and discovered a lot of work that was charged for but not completed or attempted. Beanfield, my azz

I'm almost certain there are gunsmiths that would say the same about your work.

You may be correct there, all I ask is let me correct my mistakes before spreading all the discontent to the world.

Kenny Jarrett was one of the earlier assemblers of custom rifles which consisted of a Remington action and quality barrel bedded into a fiberglass stock and promoted very well. I envy his ability at self promotion which allowed him to turn a simple formula into real money. I have never been bright enough or had the balls to charge more than journeyman tradesman rates for my work. As to whether or not Jarrett rifles are worth the money, if someone pays a given price for something, it is obviously worth that much to at least one person.
Every maker will occasionally produce flawed work but once one has bragged himself up to where he's charging big bucks for simple jobs I would hope he would make few mistakes.
That Mausingfield action is, quite possibly, the ugliest action I have ever seen. If you want your Mosin Nagant to look good, you could park one of those next to it. Regards, Bill.

Over the years I have guided a number of hunters with rifles made by Jarrett. Every one of these hunters were very happy with their rifles and I can attest to the fact that they shot them well.

In the early and mid 90's I paid a lot of attention to Jarrett's marketing and the fact that he was pushing accuracy as a major part of the rifles equation. I cannot comment on any of the Classic rifles being built at that time in regard to their accuracy but all I typically heard from my Classic brethren when I inquired about the accuracy of a finished works of art was "Well I can hit that mail box across the street." Some streets are narrower than others.

Many of my peers moaned and wailed about the "Bean-field rifle" Bean-field ????? what the hell is a bean-field ??? But for some time Jarrett owned that part of the industry and sold a lot of rifles based on his rifles accuracy and promotion of shooting further than across the street. Yes, you can say that there were then and still are many gunsmiths that can provided a similar or even better rifle for less cost or more cost, we now slip back into the Chevy/Ford debate.

In the early years of Precision Shooting Magazine, the years that counted, Jarret wrote a number of very interesting procedural articles based on we he thought worked and what didn't for him. I always found his text worth the read.

Maybe he got shafted by buying bum barrel making equipment, I wouldn't know. Maybe he got burned with the 1st run of his Tri-loc actions, maybe this maybe that but he had the desire to try and build a better mouse trap and that boys and girls takes some guts.

I have never shaken Jarrett's hand at a convention but I have tried a time or two. We have never spoken over the phone or discussed which beans make the best fields. But I have always considered him a pioneer in this field and he made me want to build a more accurate big game rifle and did. Take it for whats its worth.

Well put D'Arcy! 1) Always something to be learned from the competition. 2) Never knock competition

It has been my experience when talking to true custom smiths they don't bash other smiths. They know they each have their own niche and style which different from one another. Again, they know what their work is worth!

My original inquiry was about accuracy. Since I have not gotten a viable answer I must assume this crowd does not know as they expressed an opinion on everything but the accuracy question. So I just bought one to find out myself! Thanks anyways! Good luck with your guys unrelated to thread argument!

Unless you are in the business, it is very hard to know what is salesmanship and what is truth. Sometimes the two overlap.

I read the biography and history of Weatherby and Nosler. Roy Weatherby was a salesman that made/represented pretty unique rifles. He had a following for sure. Nosler was a perfectionist that made unique bullets. He was detailed and micro managed the operation. I think that they were entrepenuers that filled a niche and made a reputation doing it.

In the case of Jarrett and others - he found a niche and sold people on it. The rifles are good. Just like the old Dakota rifles - they are good and accurate to a point. At the end of it, people like to be "sold" something that fulfills a dream or an ideal.

I have been a fan/observer of the custom rifle business for the last ten years. At the end of the day, I have had a variety of custom, semi-custom and off the shelf rifles. My most accurate rifle is a .300 WM that is an out of the box Winchester Model 70 in the Extreme conditions version. It shoots factory ammo (Federal) to 1/2" or less when I can hold it steady. Same goes for a Hill Country Rifles semi-custom in .300WM built on a Model 70 action.

I am not sure what Jarrett offers that is worth those prices, but if it is purely accuracy, there are less expensive ways to go.

If you want a pretty rifle that shoots accurately, go with a custom stock on a proven action in a proven caliber.

Jarrett fills a niche just as Weatherby did. So do the "custom" rifle aggregators.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Kenny Jarrett was one of the earlier assemblers of custom rifles which consisted of a Remington action and quality barrel bedded into a fiberglass stock and promoted very well. I envy his ability at self promotion which allowed him to turn a simple formula into real money. I have never been bright enough or had the balls to charge more than journeyman tradesman rates for my work. As to whether or not Jarrett rifles are worth the money, if someone pays a given price for something, it is obviously worth that much to at least one person.
Every maker will occasionally produce flawed work but once one has bragged himself up to where he's charging big bucks for simple jobs I would hope he would make few mistakes.
That Mausingfield action is, quite possibly, the ugliest action I have ever seen. If you want your Mosin Nagant to look good, you could park one of those next to it. Regards, Bill.

The man that designed it is an engineer, it is made to be a military rifle action. So pretty it isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by Coloradoyaler:
It has been my experience when talking to true custom smiths they don't bash other smiths. They know they each have their own niche and style which different from one another. Again, they know what their work is worth!

My original inquiry was about accuracy. Since I have not gotten a viable answer I must assume this crowd does not know as they expressed an opinion on everything but the accuracy question. So I just bought one to find out myself! Thanks anyways! Good luck with your guys unrelated to thread argument!

It is your money, let us know how it goes.

Got no dog in this fight, but I will tell you what Kenny told me about the price of his rifles. I am paraphrasing here, but he said his rifles cost so much because he searched for, and found, the price that his lead time would only be a year or less for a complete rifle with load development. There seamed to be no delusions of grandeur on his part, just the backlog of work he was comfortable with.

http://www.inrutrifles.com/
This outfit makes a rifle called the non-typical, interesting name for a model, What's even more interesting is it's based on a LRI blueprinted Stainless steel Rem. 700 action with a fluted bolt and the barrels are produced by K&P cut rifled barrels and are a stainless fluted barrel, from what I understand the K&P barrels are very good and really shoot. This model also features a Jewel trigger...Sweet!!
and a 20 MOA rail. This maker also guarantees 1/2 minute accuracy. for $2,900 It's the best deal in it's class, hands down no question about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:
http://www.inrutrifles.com/
This outfit makes a rifle called the non-typical, interesting name for a model, What's even more interesting is it's based on a LRI blueprinted Stainless steel Rem. 700 action with a fluted bolt and the barrels are produced by K&P cut rifled barrels and are a stainless fluted barrel, from what I understand the K&P barrels are very good and really shoot. This model also features a Jewel trigger...Sweet!!
and a 20 MOA rail. This maker also guarantees 1/2 minute accuracy. for $2,900 It's the best deal in it's class, hands down no question about it.

I'd never heard of them before. Very nice looking website. Seems like a bargain price.

Looks like he's taken a vow of poverty

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Kenny Jarrett was one of the earlier assemblers of custom rifles which consisted of a Remington action and quality barrel bedded into a fiberglass stock and promoted very well. I envy his ability at self promotion which allowed him to turn a simple formula into real money. I have never been bright enough or had the balls to charge more than journeyman tradesman rates for my work. As to whether or not Jarrett rifles are worth the money, if someone pays a given price for something, it is obviously worth that much to at least one person.
Every maker will occasionally produce flawed work but once one has bragged himself up to where he's charging big bucks for simple jobs I would hope he would make few mistakes.
That Mausingfield action is, quite possibly, the ugliest action I have ever seen. If you want your Mosin Nagant to look good, you could park one of those next to it. Regards, Bill.

The man that designed it is an engineer, it is made to be a military rifle action. So pretty it isn't.

I kinda keep up with that stuff. Do you know whose military uses them?