Does anybody here have a contact # for Clayton Nelson in Trinidad, Co. His old phone # has recently been disconnected. Anybody here in Trinidad who could run him down?
Thanks.

Contact Nick Hughes in Okla. or Tommy Kaye in Texas. I think they stay in contact with him.

Same story from the 70s,80s.Hope you didnt send money!

Worse. He's got my rifle x 5 years now.

Butchlambert- contact #'s for either of the two mentioned??

Had to send someone to Enid to pick up my stuff.Got MOST of it back along with 3 minutes of phone cursing from Kirsten!!If you owe him money he'll eventually find you.GOOD LUCK

I'd call the local sheriff and report it as stolen.

JDA

I'd give Chuck Grace a call at Trinidad. Clayton helps out there and is at the school just about everyday.

John

I did call Trinidad and spoke with Victor Gutierrez per the website contact# and he said he did not know Clayton Nelson. I will call tomorrow and try to speak with Mr. Grace. I just want my parts back.

I would bet George Caswell at Champlin can tell you how to reach him. He worked at Champlin for a while.

He worked at Champlin late 60s?early 70s&was moonlighting there when he made my rifle(pics in 1974 Gun Digest).Got pretty bad vs creditors few yrs later.

Another good reason to go local... A customer darkening your doorway is more difficult to ignore than an email.

5 years is criminal and I too would recommend you report it stolen to stimulate a response.

It is not that I have not been contact with him through this time. Continuous reassurances that the agreed upon work would be done and I finally pulled the plug the first of the year and requested my parts be returned. Clayton stated it would be sent within two days and since that time no parts and now his phone is disconnected. His house is not listed on MLS either although there are other avenues of listing for sale.

Sameo,sameo.nothing new!Used to have his daughter call with excuse3.0,3.1,3.2

That same story is ages old, been happening for ions..These young smiths, mostly talented beyond belief think they can make a living building custom rifles without a real job on the side..A few make it, 99% do not...They take down payments, live on those down payments, feeding the kids, supporting a family, then they don't have the means to build the gun..so many have fallen by the wayside and left many a customer whistling who'e a thought it! Its a shame they can't make a living at their trade..I have no idea what could change it..

I can name about a half dozen just off hand that tried and failed..Some that work 20 hours a day, after 10 or more years seem to make it and they just get by..Some have other sources of income and they do well.

True ray but Clayton has been in the game for decades and actually had a reputation as a good builder at one time.
On the other side this thing should be resolved in the next day or two if what transpired this weekend holds water.

tell his contact that you are going to report it stolen in 24 hours.

I had that issue twelve years ago with a very well known builder who is still relocating ever other year in the 5-state NW area and taking orders and deposits.

I got the county sheriff to send a cruiser over to his shop. They had had several conversations along similar lines and were willing to escort him over to the USPS about ten minutes later with the complete rifle and accessories. That afternoon he M-F'ed me over the phone for about fifteen minutes, including threats of bodily harm if he ever saw me. I told him I could be there the next morning for breakfast. Then he threatened to have me arrested for criminal trespass if I set foot on his property.

You just wonder why the self-destructive behavior continues.

All of my parts were returned- arrived this past Monday. Once I get the issues figured out, this will likely go for sale as a project. Mini Farquharson, 7x57R.

Good for you!Hope everything was there& youre finally done with him.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
All of my parts were returned- arrived this past Monday. Once I get the issues figured out, this will likely go for sale as a project. Mini Farquharson, 7x57R.

Go on...

Hope you post it here first!

Clayton is in Colorado, but not with the gunsmithing school in Trinidad.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Can't but help stand up for the gunmaker that takes years to get around to your project. A custom gun customer must have two things...the ability to pay and the ability to wait..not sure which is more important.

I think most people can live with a wait, as well as some unanticipated delays, provided the estimate is somewhat accurate and communications are honest and open. Seems most of these horror stories involve being strung along, or not communicating at all.

Sorry to have to write this but I think someone should say something good about Clayton. I first met him the year he came to TSJC to school. I was in the class ahead of his. I read about him for years afterwards but never crossed paths with him. I met him for the second time at a TSJC reunion and at this time ordered the first custom rifle I have ever ordered (all I have ever owned were either built by me or actually by someone else for someone else) it was a 7x57 on a 1909 that he was to purchase at the bookstore for me. It was agreed that there was no hurry but I am not young and did want to take it to Africa. He built me an absolutely beautiful rifle with octagon to round barrel with integral rib in a nice very dark (specified as dark as he could find) piece board sawed walnut (which I think enhances the look of some pieces of walnut). It took a while and was absolutely a beautiful rifle - problem is it would not shoot - period. I had specified it was to handle 175gr Nosler Partitions. Returned it to him and we agreed since an Africa trip was coming up soon I would accept another NON-ribbed barrel as he did't think he had time to produce another. He completed the new barrel and in the exchange he built a custom rear island sight and a slick front ramped sight like none I have ever seen. When I shot it with my 175gr loads it would put 3 in well under a 1/2" before the very slim barrel started to climb. I took it to Africa and it acquitted itself well taking several head of plains game. I don't think one could ask for a better rifle so I think he was still a top class gunsmith in 2003. I last saw him at the last TSJC reunion and spent quite a bit of time with him both at the college and in his shop watching him finish checkering a just finished rifle and looking at some big Farquarsons he was finishing - I believe a couple of 2 or 4 bores. To say the workmanship was excellent would be an understatement. So as far as I am concerned his skill had not diminished in the least. I considered him a friend when I first knew him over 60 years ago and I considered him a friend when I met him at the TSJC reunion and I considered him a friend when I met him at the last Reunion. I STILL consider him a friend as of today. It amazes me today that there are as many top gunsmiths as there are. If they are truly top class and do absolutely all the work themselves (as Clay did) I cannot see how the wait time cannot be a problem for them and can easily see how they can accept an order and then be forever getting to it. I can easily say I have met more top gunsmiths who would LOSE a personality contest than would win one.

Custom guys are fantastic and true artists.

For me, I cannot wait years for a gun. I use Hill Country Rifles for my work and get it done very well, very quickly for a fair price.

These guys put out a product that shoots sub MOA and looks super.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Sorry man, putting Hill Country in the same thread as Clayton Nelson is comparing Walt Disney to Rembrandt

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Sorry man, putting Hill Country in the same thread as Clayton Nelson is comparing Walt Disney to Rembrandt

Duane,
With all due respect, the goal is a have a gun that shoots extremely well and accurately and feeds perfectly. If the goal is "art", you are partially correct.

Someone famous once said that "only accurate guns are interesting" and I happen to agree. Pretty guns that shoot 1MOA or more are not terribly interesting or valuable to me or most shooters.

I can send a rifle or order a rifle from HCR and get one back that shoots lights out, trigger is perfect, fits me, feeds perfectly and I get it in 2 to 4 months.

I struggle to even get on the waiting list for a true custom rifle aggregator.

Zimbabwe,

Can you post some color photos of your Nelson 7mm M09, including one of that front ramp?

Love to see your dark walnut and unique sight.

Thanks

Redoak8;
Here are a few pictures of my 7x57 built by Clayton Nelson some years ago. It is on a 1909 Argentine. It is the first of only 2 rifles I have had built. It performed flawlessly in Zimbabwe on Kudu and other plains game. [/IMG]

To be clear. This is not a Clayton Nelson bash.He is a likable guy and a good craftsman. I could not get in touch with him after it was agreed that my parts be returned and it had been a couple of weeks. Apparently his connectivity was lost- ph., internet. Don't know if he has a cell but I was not contacted in the interim. To make a long story short, he agreed to try to fix a problem on a rifle he had built years ago- gratis. A couple of parts have changed but the problem persists. I pulled the plug because it kept getting backburnered and not moving forward. In the end it cost me what we agreed to- nothing but time. I did not divulge this in the beginning because it was not relevant. I was more concerned that he had moved or worse. He's no springchicken! Thanks to all who have expressed an interest.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Can't but help stand up for the gunmaker that takes years to get around to your project. A custom gun customer must have two things...the ability to pay and the ability to wait..not sure which is more important.

And what, pray tell, must the gunmaker bring to the table?

When these type of complaints crop up (all too often) the erstwhile customer has often been waiting years beyond the promised completion date. Multiple lies and deceit have usually been foisted upon the customer. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, justifies such behavior.

By the way, why don't you get off the computer and get to work on a certain 300 H&H?

Zimbabwe,

I love your dark walnut and the shape of your stock, particularly the grip and the fluted comb.

The bolt handle work is exceptional, as well.

Beautiful rifle, great cartridge, thanks for posting the photos.

Anyone who takes deposits and waits YEARS to show progress and consistently LIES about the work gives all gunmakers a bad rap and this man is guilty of both, it's a shame that it seems to be the standard of the way he does business, he's the man doing the work it shouldn't be up to his wife or kids to get involved.

Zim
I consider Clayton Nelson's work in the same league of the very best out there. Yours is indeed a good example.

I met him 35 plus years ago at the Wichita Falls gun show. He was displaying some classic rifles he had built which reflected much talent way back then.

I still find it an odd thing that these issues in regard to a Custom Rifle Maker are so excusable, generally speaking, as compared to so many other one off custom items we desire.

Dempsey,
In my way of work and business, being extremely late, not keeping the client advised, wanting large deposits up front are not acceptable. You can build a 6000 sq foot house in 9 months which is a bit mor logistically complicated, and pay you go.

Hence my previous post on using Hill Country Rifles for most of my work. I do not fall in love with the "art" aspect of a rifle, so my desires are not as particular as some. Accuracy, feed, balance, overall functionality are keys to me.

I admire the skill of the fine craftsman, but am not willing to pay for nor wait for the end product with no delivery date that is firm.

Why is it that a lot of people on this forum, including some makers, seem to send the message that if you pay for something, that something is promised in a certain time frame (normal delays excluded), and that something is not delivered until the promised date is months, and even many YEARS past promised completion time, that that is good business and should be expected?
So if the person who takes on the project, sets the completion time, and has all the control as to when the work is completed, misses the mark by several months, or years, why do others defend them? I am pretty sure that most custom builds are very specific in their instructions as to what needs to be done, and most parts are probably provided. If something comes up there are some really new inventions that might help, such as Email, telephone, and a really amazing one called a letter. For the letter all you do is write a note on a piece of paper, put it in an envelope, address it to who you want to read that note, put a stamp (available at a number of different locations) on the upper right corner and put it in a mailbox.
If you are taking on so much work that you are 10 years behind, maybe think about your current customers and finish what you promised them before you make promises you cannot keep to new customers.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Ya know..I don't happen to like bananas. I really lile tomatoes, but I don't piss whine about bananas, I just don't eat bananas.

On the flip side I do not use every vague oppurtunity to babble virtues of tomatoes while condenming bananas .

Nobody here is condemning bananas, they are condemning the banana merchants who take money and don't deliver bananas...

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:
Worse. He's got my rifle x 5 years now.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Can't but help stand up for the gunmaker that takes years to get around to your project. A custom gun customer must have two things...the ability to pay and the ability to wait..not sure which is more important.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I am having trouble reconciling these two posts. Years, as in 2 years, to complete a custom rifle is a long wait but not unreasonable. 5 years for a repair is not acceptable. Is there any other service or product that requires a 5 year wait?

I am younger than 90% of the guys on this thread but I can't imagine waiting 5 years for a rifle to be returned. How many of you guys who are 50+ can be sure that you will be physically able to do much hunting beyond 5 years?(would you book a hunt 5 years in the future?)

Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight or run anyone down but I think the custom gun guys are doing a real disservice to their industry by sticking up for these guys who are failing to deliver anywhere near the expected completion date.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Ya know..I don't happen to like bananas. I really lile tomatoes, but I don't piss whine about bananas, I just don't eat bananas.

On the flip side I do not use every vague oppurtunity to babble virtues of tomatoes while condenming bananas .

Duane,
Your posts and PM make very little sense. My point is that I have no desire to buy a product that I cannot count on to be delivered on time when I can buy a similar less expensive product that does the exact same thing for less money and get it in 4 months or less.

As I have posted, your skill is greatly admired. Your quality is very good. Yet you,are defending a position that it is acceptable to promise a product to be "perfect" and then delivered at any time in the future all the while having been paid for a part or all of it well in advance.

As I posted, I can build a $600,000 house in 9 months, a Fine car is built quicker than that, but a rifle can require more than a year and then be late because the artist has a lot of work to do and cannot get it done on time?

I am not critical of you as you may deliver your guns on time and on budget. I assume you do as I do not know otherwise. However, there have been many posts on AR by customers who have the opposite experience.

BTW, I do not drive a Kia or a Yugo, per your PM. I drive a GMC that can be built in a few days, lasts 10 years, is very suited for the purpose. I could drive a BMW or a Ferrari but prefer not to. I buy, drive and shoot what I prefer to drive-buy-shoot , I am the guy paying for it and as the customer, I set the terms. If the terms are not to my liking, I go elsewhere.