A while back I was looking for a reason to make my wife mad at me, so I stopped by the local gun shop. Every used Winchester 70 that I see on the rack gets a quick inspection. I don't even pick em up, I just reach around and feel for that "proper" extractor(and I don't mean that sarcastically). Then, there it was... An almost brand new Winchester 70 Classic Sporter in 7mm STW. Luckily this shop is full of Savage and Remington owners that have no appreciation for CRF rifles. I pretty much stole it. I paid less for this gun than what my farm truck insurance costs, although my wife acted like it was a years wages. Ha! Definately worth just the action.

I have absolutely zero interest in 7mm STW, my 280 Rem gives me my 7mm fix. What I do want, and have always wanted is a 300 H&H. Since I already have the dies and brass, I'm in too far to turn back now... Now for the questions....

Barrel Contour: I considered having the factory contour duplicated, but I'm not so sure that I'd be happy with that decision. It's currently a 26" barrel and I definately want to stick with that length, but I am wondering if a lighter/slimmer contour would be in order. Right now the muzzle diameter is .565". I really prefer slim profiles on barrels. For instance, my 35 Whelen has a 24" PO Ackley barrel that is .590 at muzzle. Super accurate and super easy to carry(light). What are your thoughts on a barrel contour for the 300 H&H? Oh, and yes I will be putting sights on the barrel.

Stock: If I stick with the factory contour, I'll probably just keep the factory stock. Nothing fancy about it but it could definately stand to be slimmed down here and there. I really like slim and trim. Only problem is that I have zero experience in stock work. Furthermore, if I decide to go with a slimmer profile barrel a completely new stock is almost in order as I think the "free floated" barrel look on a wood stock looks like hammered dog sh*t. Again, considering I have no stock making experience. I don't required a high grade stock with lots of figure. This is a working rifle and I don't want to panic when it gets that first scratch. For all I care, a strong American walnut stock with a slim build that fits the barrel contour properly will suit me just fine. Maybe an affordable semi-inlet out there? Any suggestions?

Currently the rifle feels pretty heavy/bulky. I hoping to remedy that pending your feedback on some of my ideas listed above. Also, keep in mind that I am not a wealthy individual that has thousands of dollars to spend on stock work. I feel fortunate that I have a desire to experience the classics. All of my shooting buddies my own age couldn't care less about a gun that isn't semi-auto or doesn't have a detachable magazine. I'm also fortunate in that I have kind members here with a wealth of knowledge they are willing to share. Thanks guys...

I got the feeling of u bought a rifle you dont want. To get a classic rifle look you need both new barrel and stock. Sell it (or keep it in the safe)and wait until you can buy what you want.

Sounds to me like you ought to tell your wife the cost of the insurance just went way up to justify your current wants!

A new barrel matched to your stock, stock slimmed up and finished. Could get pricey, just my two cents worth.

Jim

quote:

I'm a young fella that decided to go back to school while still working full time, and we have a baby due in August. Unfortunately my tastes in firearms far exceeds the capacity of my wallet, but I'm guessing that a lot of the members here know what I'm talking about from experience.

You're not going to want to hear this, but you need to concentrate on your studies, your wife, and your coming child. I think it is a VERY irresponsible decison on your part to buy a new gun, especially in a caliber you don't want/like, while the above factors are on the table.

The desire to "experience" the classics won't disappear, wait until you can afford it.

I think you should sell the gun, perhaps in the AR classifieds, and put the money in a college fund for your coming child.

Many young people these days can't get beyond the "me now, right now" stage. Try to do it, if you don't, your future and your marriage may well suffer.

I'm sure you're a nice guy, I'm just trying to give you a cheap and painless attitude adjustment. One of my favorite sayings is "Too soon old, too late smart.", try to get smarter sooner.

I've edited my post a little as I think some of it may have come off wrong. Easily understandable since my writing/typing skills are poor and things can easily be taken out of context. Apologies on my part.

Nordic2, You are spot on! I didn't get the rifle I wanted. I only bought it for the action. Less than the labor cost of opening up a Mauser action and definitely cheaper than buying a Montana 1999 action.

Gatogordo, I can't agree with you more on some points. When I say my tastes exceed my wallet, I was meaning that it would be nice to have one of those full custom builds or a nostalgic double rifle, but I never will. Why? Because, yes, I'm young still yet and have far greater priorities. But... If the day came to where I could afford such an item, I still probably wouldn't. I just can't justify the extra cost, I don't feel like it would make my hunt any better. Im pretty simple, I want my rifles to feel right, fit me right, and function right. Looking right is an added bonus, but I usually put a budget on that. It might be a distraction if it was hot pink, but you get the idea. High end firearms are great pieces of work, just like the craftsman that build such examples. Truly amazing... And I'm awestruck when I see and hold them in person. I'm even more awestruck when I see people hunting with them. To me it would feel like taking a Ferrari rock crawling. Eeek! But that's just me. I do, however, appreciate your willingness to lead me and others in the right direction. I respect that... Need more people willing to be the "unpopular one" in this world. I'm new here and no one knows me, so I'd probably be thinking the same thing as you. Though I have been a longtime reader. I'll shoot you a PM. I just didn't want people here to recommend some world class stock maker, or assume that money was no object. Like the saying, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." Well, excuse me for being frugal. I was hoping to find a source for a semi-inletted blank and learn to do the work myself, except the checkering.

Jim, Thanks for the input! My wife doesn't understand the whole "gun nut" concept. Though she won't blink twice when it comes to spending a small fortune on her barrel horses. Those creatures get expensive quick. She has her hobbies and I have mine. Lol. I'm really leaning towards a semi-inletted stock. Nothing fancy as far as the wood goes, just something strong and stable for the crappy conditions I hunt in. I want to get rid of the two piece trigger guard/floor plate and use a Williams with Oberndorf style trigger bow that I have in the safe. So either way, I'll have to attempt some inletting. If I do decide to do a new stock, what are your thoughts on barrel contour then?

Thanks for the replies.

I have always had the feeling (actually backed up by meagre statistics) that I actually shoot better with a nice looking gun. I certainly 'FEEL' better the nicer the gun I shoot. My favorite quail gun is a top grade Browning Lightening 28 ga with the nice gold birds on it. I always seem to take more quail with it than any other.

Duane- I agree with you on that. I won't own a gun that I don't plan on shooting. I'm just not at that point in life where I'm willing to spend 10k or more on a hunting rifle and feel fearless about banging it up. If money were no object, then I wouldn't think twice about it. On the other hand, a well used rifle looks just as grand. Phil(458Win) has a really cool, original 404J. Probably one of my favorites. I've got a nice action, a .423 barrel, and some of your 404 bottom metal setting in the back of the safe... The rifles you build are a great example of the perfect blend of function and looks. When I buy your products, is installation included in the price? No? Well, it was worth a shot...
And yes, I've got some books on order, but I'll get ahold of the books you mentioned, including Dave's. He does some great work and great photography.

zimbabwe- Don't get me wrong, it is a good feeling to have a nice rifle. I can see how it would instill more confidence in the shooter as well. Kids exhibit this psychology all the time. I grew up in a town of about 1,800 people. I remember when I played elementary football way, way back in the 90's(lol), that our game uniforms had to be at least 15yrs or more old. The school system had no money, it was almost embarrassing. Some parents got together and bought all us kids some new uniforms and presented them on game day. I remember how cool that felt. You'd thought we had put on a superman cape because we absolutely destroyed the opposing team, and we did so for the following games as well. We felt invincible. More than you wanted to know I'm sure, but yeah, I get where your coming from.

quote:

A while back I was looking for a reason to make my wife mad at me, so I stopped by the local gun shop.

quote:

I was hoping to find a source for a semi-inletted blank and learn to do the work myself, except the checkering.

It takes a lot of time, precision, and skill to shape a stock. If you have never done it and/or have no wood working skills, it will take even more time (I speak from experience). With work, school, and a baby on the way; time sounds like something you don't have a lot of.

I've got one full custom and several semi-customs. I enjoyed the process of customizing these rifles, but in every case I could have bought a used rifle with the specs I wanted for far less than I put in building it. Additionally, the used rifle is available now where a custom can take a long time.

Here is my suggestion, if you got a great deal on the 7mm, put it in the safe and save it until you have the extra money to build exactly what you want. If you find the 300 H&H you want, sell the 7mm STW to help pay for the 300.

The customization is part of the intellectual value of the project. I get to know what goes into my rifle and plus I'm fairly picky about barrels. I have to start somewhere. Yes it's cheaper to buy an assembled rifle, but it's not what I'm after. I've done 4 or 5 semi-customs to date. All with synthetic stocks. What I'm after is a simple rifle, much like the pre-64 300 H&H's were like. But without the pre-64 action. Time is also not an issue, as I am in no hurry. If it takes me 10 years and 5 blanks to shape a stock, so what. I don't need instant gratification. I've had many, many opportunities to buy a complete rifle, but passed because I like projects. It's seems that buying a rifle for just the action in the hopes of building myself a "simple" rifle with a simple stock is not a welcome idea. Oh well, I'll press on...

I see the reason to have a nostalgia cart as an excuse to make a nostalgia rifle to be built in the fashion of an original 300 made by Holland and Holland like this one.

That is pure sex...

Mod 70 "classic"stocks have extra wood in the wrist and do feel chunky.
PM me pics of all 4 sides of the wrist on your mod 70 stock. If the wood looks strong enough to slim down I'll be happy to do so for the cost of shipping only.
I talked to a well known Mod 70 smith who would also like to help.He will furnish,fit, chamber and turn a new barrel for you at under $400 total.
If this doesn't work for you we can always go to plan number two.
Not many young people are interest in wood and blued steel rifles of classic design. I figure that it is a stewardship obligation for us old farts to encourage that interest.
Dave Wesbrook

Amazon has reprints of Alvin Linden's books. I can highly recommend them as well as Mr. Wesbrook's work.

Very generous offer from him as well.

Please post photos of the finished product.

Jeremy

Tip of the cap to Dave. A very generous offer!

Jump in on Dave's offer with both feet!

I was going to suggest that you could also look for a takeoff barrel in 30-06 and have it rechambered and fit. On a 300 H&H I'd prefer a 23" or 24" barrel anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
I'll be happy to do so for the cost of shipping only.
Not many young people are interest in wood and blued steel rifles of classic design. I figure that it is a stewardship obligation for us old farts to encourage that interest.
Dave Wesbrook

Wow Dave, very generous offer.....

quote:

Originally posted by Sevens:

quote:

I was hoping to find a source for a semi-inletted blank and learn to do the work myself, except the checkering.

It takes a lot of time, precision, and skill to shape a stock. If you have never done it and/or have no wood working skills, it will take even more time (I speak from experience). With work, school, and a baby on the way; time sounds like something you don't have a lot of.

I've got one full custom and several semi-customs. I enjoyed the process of customizing these rifles, but in every case I could have bought a used rifle with the specs I wanted for far less than I put in building it. Additionally, the used rifle is available now where a custom can take a long time.

I agree with this very much. I'm another young guy and it's a challenge to do this stuff when you're short on time and cash... even with basic semi-inlets, if you're trying to do it right. In my opinion a rifle you've built up yourself is by farthe most satisfying to hunt with, but stockmaking isn't exactly a short-term, low-budget thing. It is best to bite the bullet and purchase quality tools from the start rather than waste more time and $$$ on cheap stuff- often you get what you pay for. Again, big challenge but with potentially bigger gains... and I guarantee if I can learn some stockmaking, you can too.

Dave Wesbrook's book is excellent, and I'd take a look at Les Brooks' stockmaking thread here and contact him for his thumb drive too. Both are invaluable to me. Get a copy of Steven Dodd Hughes' Custom Rifles in Black and White for more custom rifle inspiration if you need it (or just want more eye candy too).

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Mod 70 "classic"stocks have extra wood in the wrist and do feel chunky.
PM me pics of all 4 sides of the wrist on your mod 70 stock. If the wood looks strong enough to slim down I'll be happy to do so for the cost of shipping only.
I talked to a well known Mod 70 smith who would also like to help.He will furnish,fit, chamber and turn a new barrel for you at under $400 total.
If this doesn't work for you we can always go to plan number two.
Not many young people are interest in wood and blued steel rifles of classic design. I figure that it is a stewardship obligation for us old farts to encourage that interest.
Dave Wesbrook

Such a generous offer... and you guys do a hell of a job fostering that interest here.

Wow Dave! That is incredibly generous of you. More than generous actually. I would be honored to have you do some work on my rifle(at this point it's really more of the forums rifle and rightly so), but there has to be some way I can compensate you for your trouble. I'll PM you with some details.

I never dreamed this thread would be headed in this direction. I'm still interested in learning some of the trade. Some book purchases will definitely be in store for me. This forum is really making this a special build...

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Not many young people are interest in wood and blued steel rifles of classic design. I figure that it is a stewardship obligation for us old farts to encourage that interest.

Amen to that! I couldn't agree more, and Dave backs up his words with a very generous offer... I have newfound respect and admiration for the man.

Templar, don't let the naysayers discourage you - go for it!

quote:

In my opinion a rifle you've built up yourself is by farthe most satisfying to hunt with

And that first scratch on the stock will make you want to cry. The rifle pictured below I finished the stock on (with the exception of checkering). It got it's first scratch few weeks back.


A very generous offer by Dave as well. Please post pics if you take him up on his offer.

Hell take the best custom rifle you own and grab it by the barrel and switch it through the brush the first day..No more problems! It bothers me not, its still the same rifle with all the good and a few dings, so what..My old 300 H&H is a full custom, barrel looks like stainless steel from blue wear, stock has nicks and dings from many good and some bad hunts, they are memories..stock has been referred to as Circassian driftwood by some..It still shoots and inch all day long. All rifles are meant to be used, the more the better and like and old pair of boots they just get to where they fit and they are comfortable..Speaking for myself only..

Oh yeah, and they can always be refinished to new, but you lose the memories.

Ray, I am definitely not going to disagree with you. I have a couple of factory rifles that are well worn and I absolutely love em. I think they cost me about $500 bucks, new. It's all relative. The exposure I've had to the higher end firearms is very limited, so I tend to think of the man hours and coin involved in crafting them and it makes it hard for me to imagine dragging them through the brush. That being said, I absolutely love to see a well used firearm. I like to think about the story they could tell. Do you have any current pictures of your rifle? I'm sure there will be a day where a full custom with the bells and whistles will be on my shopping list, but for now I must insist on more humble choices. You guys do have my word, that if I had such a rifle, I would absolutely use it as the hunting tool it was meant to be.

On another note, I have had some time to think about Dave's offer. It is extremely generous for such an accomplished gentleman to take an interest in my project. The smart and easiest thing for me to do would be to let Dave trim up the wrist on the stock, but through the right encouragement/approval from the right people(including Dave) I have made the decision to take on the task of doing my own stock.

There is another contributing element that has influenced my decision. It turns out that a relative(Great Uncle) of mine has been watching this thread. From a young age I've had natural attraction to firearms and hunting. This man, who is like a father to me, nurtured and encouraged my interests. Without his guidance and help in my life, I would not be who I am today. He contacted me earlier today and expressed his willingness to help me in the stock making endeavor if I chose to do so. He has some experience in stock making, as he has stocked quite a few of his own firearms. My Uncle offered the use of his tools, resources, and time to aid me in this adventure. I absolutely cannot refuse this offer. I feel that this is going to be a very rewarding experience for the both of us. I am fortunate to have such a friend.

Once again, I want to express my thanks to Dave for his benevolence. He's a fine artisan and craftsman. Your work is an inspiration to me. Thank you Dave!

Dave,

noble gesture of you to help this young man out with the stock.

Your work is as good as any I have ever seen, with the exception of an Al Biesen I once owned.

Rich

Boom Stick,
Now that is a real rifle, everytime I see one of those Holland and Holland bolt handles I get chills, damn they are pretty..Better yet they work so well and don't cut the stock in half..Nice gun.

I can scope a rifle with that stock and it will suit me to a T, and according to the masses, it won't work at all, you could never kill a game animal with a scope and such a low comb.

Guess I am fortunate to have beed born when all combs were low, and Weaver invented the K4 and we all used them..We just didn't know better and I think the good Lord for that.

My 2 cents on the barrel, I have a model 70 STW rebarreled with a #3 pacnor match. I like the rifle, but if doing it again, I would either go with a #2 or maybe a 24# barrel.....

Here's 300 H&H done for me by Bijou Creek Customs, on a VZ-24 action bought here on AR. It has the old British look to it.