IMO, Darcy Echols builds the best fiberglass stocked hunting rifles made anywhere in the world by anyone. They cannot be bested in any category, ie accuracy, function, reliability, feel or build quality. IF you are willing to spend what his rifles bring you will surely not be disappointed. That said, many others build fantastically good rifles of similar design that cost a lot less. Mark Penrod has done work for me and I can highly recommend his services. Kenny Jarrett has also been mentioned and I've had several of his rifles, all very well done. Les Webernick of Rifles, Inc. is another and I'm sure there are many more but all of these men have built guns for me so I know what they can turn out.

Id rank an Satterlee syn. mauser right up there with an Echols Legend.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Id rank an Satterlee syn. mauser right up there with an Echols Legend.

Sure....if a guy could get one in the next decade

quote:

IMO, Darcy Echols builds the best fiberglass stocked hunting rifles made anywhere in the world by anyone. They cannot be bested in any category, ie accuracy, function, reliability, feel or build quality.

This is going to get it started up!!! Jeff wish you competed and travelled around and we could shoot our sporters, but to make the statement “IMO, Darcy Echols builds the best fiberglass stocked hunting rifles made anywhere in the world by anyone. They cannot be bested in any category, ie accuracy, function, reliability, feel or build quality.” You are showing your rear end here. I am almost 100% sure and I would let you pick from several of mine that you would go home wondering where the truck came from in the accuracy department. The other things you have stated are for the most part subjective to a certain degree as a failure to feed may or may not be the fault of the rifle by using handloaded ammunition for example.

If there was 10k on the line with my builder (I will put it up for my guy) and Darcy shooting their respective sporter rifles 9lbs (or less just an example) with scope that they PERSONALLY built at any distance I can assure you that Darcy would not show up for the competition.

Darcy is a VERY TALENTED ARTISAN and I like his stuff but extreme accuracy is not what he is known for.

Like I said, "In My Opinion" the Legend is the best built fiberglass stocked hunting rifle made by anyone out there. I don't see how that's considered showing my rear end. Maybe I should have said "I doubt they can be bested." The guy asked for everyone's opinion/ideas and I gave mine based on the rifles I have owned/own for the past 20yrs. With his rifles there are no shortcomings...unless you consider consistent accuracy in the 1/4" to 1/2" range with hunting bullets somehow lacking. Who's your builder? What kind of accuracy do your rifles deliver with hunting bullets? I'm very curious because there's always room in the safe for another premium hunting rifle. Like I said, there are lots of good builders, and I've used many out there I did not mention, but I doubt any of them delivers the whole package any better than Echols does.

quote:

Originally posted by John S:
Like I said, "In My Opinion" the Legend is the best built fiberglass stocked hunting rifle made by anyone out there. I don't see how that's considered showing my rear end. Maybe I should have said "I doubt they can be bested." The guy asked for everyone's opinion/ideas and I gave mine based on the rifles I have owned/own for the past 20yrs. With is rifles there are no shortcomings...unless you consider consistent accuracy in the 2/10" to 3/10" range with hunting bullets somehow lacking. Who's your builder? What kind of accuracy do they deliver with hunting bullets? I'm very curious because there's always room in the safe for another premium hunting rifle.

Builds all of my non wood rifles and my competition rifles. Just having some fun with you keeping things lively. He is running this now http://www.nrablog.com/post/20...mithing-program.aspxand is building very few rifles but still does mine but then he is one of my best friends----I might put in a good word for you lol .

It bet it takes a bigger room to house John's trophies taken with his preferred synthetic stocked rifles.

Here are a few in process pics of my latest done this past New Years Eve Eve---notice he starts with chambering the barrel/cutting threads see the daylight in the window, making the dies complete with perfect knurling, making a seating gauge out of the end of the barrel we cut off with the finish reamer, making the stock absolutely perfect. After a lunch and talking to Chuck Grace who stopped by to give me a inlet job to take back to Texas prepped the action and barrel for bedding, no pictures of the nightmare fitting of the HS detachable box mag (I bead blasted it as well as the action, rings bases and applied the spider web finish) and the Jewell trigger.

All of this in 1 day! That’s right start to finish in 1 day and everything is absolutely perfect which is much more than I can say about my crap Picture taking. Very few people can build to the level of precision that Speedy can much less do it in 1 freaking day!

For those of you who say popo he has done this before but faster----I left the shop about 6:30 on a Friday night (this was in Texas) and we were shooting in a match the next day and I was picking him up at 6:00 the next morning. When I left was a un-inletted SGY F-Class Stock (Speedy glues his actions in), Barrel Blank un fluted, BAT Action, no brake made or ammo loaded…

Next morning ---- The Freaking Rifle is finished FLUTED polished spider webbed barrel, Brake, Ammo loaded and the SOB went to TAC-PRO and kicked but in the 400yd clay pigeon shoot out hell he even beat me! That is one thing that if I did not see it with my own eyes I would call BS without question.

Boss.....you should resize them pics, they are about 4 screens wide

I don't know Speedy, had a coupla- three conversations with him years ago. I used to collect Kleinguenthers, he worked with Mr. Kleinguenther way back when...........nice guy. Builds quality stuff.

I'm glad you "broke the ice" on this. the guy's looking for a functional shovel...no less no more!

www.customgunandrifle.com
duane@customgunandrifle.com
(253) 535-0066

I think everyone is looking for a funtional shovel, some like wood handles and some like fiberglass or carbon. Some want stainless and some like rust blue. But nobody like a disfunctional shovel!

quote:

Originally posted by jcjr:
Who builds the best custom rifle for hunting, nothing that has wooden stocks and all that engraving, but a rifle that is tough and can handle the elements.

little misguided question

Three reason why...

First...there are a multitude of great makers...there is no one better than all the others.

second...wood stocks are on guns that have been "handling the elements" for hundreds of years...and they will continue to do so.

third...engraving was for a reason...it helped/helps hold the oil on the metal...SO YOUR GUN can handle the elements.

Best is what works best for me. Sure, certain quantifiable objectives need to be met, but once that is accomplished the rest is subjective.

After owning a dozen or so production guns, often tuned by good smiths, I experienced some failure with each and every one. Some niggling, some potentially catastrophic.

In my search for a flawlessly functioning rifle, I finally chose a D’Arcy Echols Legend in .300 Win Mag. That met my needs.

If form follows function, my Legend is also beautiful (to me).

AR was the vehicle and Allan Day was was the portal. I still have photos he sent me those almost 20 years ago. The guy knew his stuff.

I never looked back. RIP Allan Day.

I remember Allen Day.. he shaped my views on a couple of things.

I remember he said all the time, build one or two perfect hunting rifles and go out and hunt.


I´ll rather spend $10.000 on two solid hunting rifles, then have 26 Rem 700, with cheap optics standing in the closet getting shot once in a blue moon.

Cost was always an issue with an Echols. When I ordered my Legend it was $6K and change. People on the forums were howling at the high price. Last I spoke with D'Arcy he was charging $15K. He fully explained his pricing strategy with regard to his present market and it made sense although he regretted he could no longer count carpenters and other working class guys among his new customers. The hedge fund guys took their place.

It’s even hard to sell one because those guys want new, not used.

Years ago, when I brought home the first of several Borzoi puppies, I decided I needed to find him a kennel mate to keep him company while I was away at work. I went to the Animal Shelter and was walking down a row of cages, when I was stopped short in front of a cage containing a dog who was staring at me intently as if to say, "TAKE ME HOME!" That was my first encounter with Daisy, a Basset bitch who had grown too big for her original owner's apartment. I obeyed her command, and never regretted it. She and Nick, the puppy, were inseparable from then on.

I had much the same reaction when confronted with this photograph:



I have had rifles custom made for me by some big name gunsmiths, but my reaction at seeing this rifle was, "I have to have this," and I parted with three other rifles to close the deal. It is simply love at first sight, and I didn't know that the rifle was a .416 Rigby on an original Oberndorf Magnum Mauser action made by Dennis Erhardt. All I knew was it was telling me, "Take me with you." I have never regretted my decision.

That is a beautiful rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
I remember Allen Day.. he shaped my views on a couple of things.

I remember he said all the time, build one or two perfect hunting rifles and go out and hunt.


I´ll rather spend $10.000 on two solid hunting rifles, then have 26 Rem 700, with cheap optics standing in the closet getting shot once in a blue moon.

Darn good advice there!

I don't know about Echols; never shot one of his rifles. Have had a lot of guns built over the years, all with the goal of accuracy. Here is what I have learned:

1. Builders that shoot competitively build more accurate rifles than those that don't.
2. Builders who hunt have a better knack for the best stock, contours, etc.
3. Builders who hunt and shoot competitively can build a great hunting rifle that is superbly accurate.

Just my observations, not a hard and fast rule.

ALL hunting rifles should be accurate - how accurate is up to you.

But the point of a custom rifle is about more than accuracy. It's about function, fit, and making something that suits the customer's preferences.

I expect a custom HUNTING rifle to be near flawless in function. It has to feed and eject rounds without a hiccup. It needs to be accurate (enough). It must be balanced and easy to handle and shoot in various positions.

It must fit the shooter... not just length of pull and drop at comb, but the grip and trigger geometry should fit the shooter's hands. It should point well - like a quality shotgun. The scope should be mounted so that it comes up without forcing the shooter to adjust his face on the comb to look through the scope. Ditto if the rifle is fitted with iron sights.

Lastly, it should suit the tastes of the shooter/customer. I like thin shell walnut and all my rifles (and shotguns) are stocked with TS walnut. I have dragged my rifles through some gruesome weather and cover without trashing the wooden stocks. Engraving, checkering, finish and details like sling swivel studs or pads, safety, magazine release, etc. must be considered for function and aesthetics.

Just my thoughts... make yours the way YOU want it and it will be 'custom'.

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:
Engraving, checkering, finish and details like sling swivel studs or pads, safety, magazine release, etc. must be considered for function and aesthetics.

Just my thoughts... make yours the way YOU want it and it will be 'custom'.

Well, there is no way wood is going to stable as a synthetic stock unless it is a laminate. It may not be an issue for you but I have been on hunts were it rained every single day and my gun was wet constantly. I just don't want the worry.

Function vs aesthetics? Synthetic stocks have molded in checkering that works fine. Swivel studs? If I can't mount a bipod on it, I don't care how attractive it looks.

I love wood too, especially on shotguns. But my go-to shotgun is an SX3 with a camo syn stock. For turkeys and coyotes, it is perfect...but it isn't displayed on the bookshelf gun rack in my TR. But then, neither are my most accurate rifles.

Well, to each their own, for sure.

The plastic stocks are made in molds. Wood stocks are cut to fit... better, I think if you want a gun that is optimized. I wonder how they managed without plastic stocks 'back in the day' or how WWII was fought with wooden stocked Garand rifles? Dunno.

My go to shotgun is a 1915 Fox 16 gauge intended for upland hunting. Been shooting it since 1991 when it was rebuilt to suit me.

My two big game rifles use McMillan stocks..

I can get three or four of them for the cost of one custom wood stock.

And they are 20x more durable and stable..


I could maybe see the point of having a nice walnut burl stock on a 22lr... but for a hunting rifle.. when there are better options? No!

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
My two big game rifles use McMillan stocks..

I can get three or four of them for the cost of one custom wood stock.

And they are 20x more durable and stable..


I could maybe see the point of having a nice walnut burl stock on a 22lr... but for a hunting rifle.. when there are better options? No!

Maybe 10-20 glass stocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
My two big game rifles use McMillan stocks..

I can get three or four of them for the cost of one custom wood stock.

And they are 20x more durable and stable..


I could maybe see the point of having a nice walnut burl stock on a 22lr... but for a hunting rifle.. when there are better options? No!

Where did you come up with "20X more durable abd stable"?

Play it an way you like, no problem. I don't have (or need) that many rifles and walnut works for me. Old school, I guess.

biggest problem with FG guns as they can be noisy when going through brush. Not a preferred material if you are stalking something in thick brush.
If you required something with that stability might try a laminate. They tend to be a little heavy.
I acquired a FG gun to take hunting in Mexico I could afford to lose.
It is a production gun that I bought used. I hate to think it is disposable now. Shoots as good as any rifle I have ever owned. Not pretty but a fine tool.
Nice to have options...

quote:

Originally posted by Alec Torres:

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
My two big game rifles use McMillan stocks..

I can get three or four of them for the cost of one custom wood stock.

And they are 20x more durable and stable..


I could maybe see the point of having a nice walnut burl stock on a 22lr... but for a hunting rifle.. when there are better options? No!

Where did you come up with "20X more durable abd stable"?

Play it an way you like, no problem. I don't have (or need) that many rifles and walnut works for me. Old school, I guess.

Hey, I have walnut stocks too. My .416 RM is wood. Ruger No 1? Wood. Lever actions? Wood. And who would ever put anything other than wood on a schuetzen style stock? But when I go moose hunting in a week in AK, I am bringing my tupperware .338 WM. I was thinking hard about a .375 HH but not my wood stocked Whitworth one, my synthetic Sako.

Once while on stand for hours in heavy rain I saw the wood perceptibly move at the muzzle of a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 1961 MCA.

I figured if could actually see that there was no telling what wood moved against metal in any other of my walnut stocked rifles.

That’s when I went to the dark side.

Turn about! While a Gander Mountain, I've observed plastic free floated stocks move in the hot sun at least 1/16" at the fore end. Every gunsmith there saw the same thing.

Enjoy your plastic,,I enjoy my wood and have faith in that wood Besides, every plastic stock saves on wood, which ain't a bad thing except adding to the load of environmental trash.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Turn about! While a Gander Mountain, I've observed plastic free floated stocks move in the hot sun at least 1/16" at the fore end. Every gunsmith there saw the same thing.

Enjoy your plastic,,I enjoy my wood and have faith in that wood Besides, every plastic stock saves on wood, which ain't a bad thing except adding to the load of environmental trash.

Wood does indeed have a very low coefficient of thermal expansion. Plastic is terrible. However, plastic blended with fiberglass is much less impacted. Graphite is as good as wood.

Even though my all around rifle has a tupperware stock, my long range ones are not injection molded.

My black McM stocks get too hot to touch when I am done with a shooting session in the summer; never saw them move zero. However, my latest is a lighter camo color (molded in) and that absorbs a lot less heat.

My tupperware stocks are bedded and floated. I will set one out tomorrow and report back; it is supposed to be 110 tomorrow.

I belong to the segment of society that cannot design picture or visualize bespoke products may they be custom homes, suites, guns ect.

I like the guns that Wayne at AHR has built for me. But i let him pick the wood features ect.

My double rifle was off the shelf. Same for my beretta shotgun.

I think blaser synethic stock r8 rifles are awesome and need zero additional work.

Blaser makes custom k95 for me. I am left handed. They send me wood pictures ect from Germany and I have little ability to pick wood. I just let them pick it. Choices complicate stuff for me.

I also like to buy houses already fixed up by someone.

I think Duane Wiebe makes beautiful rifles and I am glad to have his cz bottom in my ahr custom rifle.

Mike

There are many, but if I had to pick one that was above all, it would be the late Jack Hough, and that is just my personal opinion....

Alive today would be Duane Wiebe...again just my pick of the litter..