quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Keeping horses is VERY costly in most of BC and few resident hunters can afford to do so. However, WHY should a resident HAVE to compete with ANY foreigner, Yankees are not "equals" here and should NEVER be allowed to hunt, fish, or use OUR wilderness for ANY purpose.

Fuggit, I have to finish packing for our upcoming hunt in northern BC and the Kootenays and this is never going to be resolved, anyway.

Keeping horses WELL, is expensive anywhere.

Hunting is much more expensive EVERYWHERE that access is difficult.

Yet another attack-- where did I ever express "equals"?

(BTW, you may not realize, Texas has minimal public access hunting, almost exclusively it is private land. Access HERE is an issue in different ways.)

As to resolution, I appreciate your position, although ,I believe you and hunters everywhere face very similar access and cost restrictions; as well as populations and governments that do not respect nor appreciate our sport/heritage.


Hope you have a grand, safe and successful hunt, truly.

As I have said above, common sense and facts don't work when one is trying to "push a rope".

Hey Dewey enjoy your hunt and the beautiful country. Hope you can make it to S. Texas one of these days and I will show you some real Texas hunting. Heck, we might even have a moment to show you George W's ranch "from a distance"! Ya gotta luv that.

Along the lines of a competing group sponsored by locals for locals:

In researching the Guide requirements
I noticed this preemptive bureaucratic strategy---
in order to apply for a guide licence --

"the sole holder of, or the agent identified on guiding territory certificate#________"
must sign the guide application.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/pasb/.../guide_outfitter.pdf

It appears --no territory--no guide status--

So, is there a bid process for the "territory" choices---
or are the parceled out in backroom political style?

(This would seem to be the sticking point in getting started. Not the testing nor the fees.)


Other associated fees:

The Guide licence itself $525 plus --
" last years royalty fees" -- presumably collected from clients.


The required liability insurance cost appears not to be too significant--
about $200.00, through one source.

http://www.amga.com/resources/...ous/canada_ifmga.pdf

And of course your big costs would be-- equipment, transportation, personnel--etc.

But--
if you can't get a territory--

you can't hire air transportation or wrangler/packers
(from the implications of "guiding" without licence),

you are not a pilot yourself,

you don't have horse and pack animals,

sure looks tough to get out there on your own.


If this assessment is accurate---
you guys particularly need to find a way to change the requirements to be a guide from being tied to a single territory
and/or methods of effecting territory distribution.

At times, working within the system for incremental change often proves to be more effective than frontal assaults.

Dewey, as bwest stated above you are not "one of us" your negative attitude shows your true side, you could do everyone a big favor by just going away.

This site keeps our brains clear and our motivation strong and nobody needs or wants to listen to your negative shit.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

Originally posted by BBBruce:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
BBB,
I am still at a loss for precisely HOW the access is prevented-

It’s the dirty old government game of pretending you’re doing nothing so you can side with influential interests and resist doing anything. We are talking about the really remote bush, often up the Alaska Highway. There are only three ways in because it is so remote, private safari, GO (guide outfitter) or horseback.

Private safari is impractical. You couldn’t pay someone to take you in and set up your camp, because that would be called guide outfitting and is restricted to GO’s. You can’t drive in because there are no roads to the areas. When you get there you can’t move without help because there are no roads in there, just bush, swamps and mountainsides. There are no camps. There would only be the transportation you take in by air. Every trip in would have to reinvent every wheel, and at North American labour rates just is not possible.

So, any air charter can possibly be looked at as "GO' behaviour, thus requiring a GO licence?
And, I'm guessing the route to getting a licence is fraught with hurdles for any "non-connected" individuals?

What would an air charter get you? You would land on a lake in a roadless, pathless, trackless wilderness and no place to stay. It is one thing to say, "Well let them make a camp and hump it." Some people sometimes do. Most of us are getting too old for total immersion in a survivalist adventure. When you look at the African safaris those guys are driven to the hunts and return to comfortable camps. I suppose if you have the resources to buy that much help you will not sympathize. Most of us don’t, and we own the resource.

quote:

GO’s refuse to acknowledge or accept resident clients. You cannot go in with them, period. Not even to picnic. They refuse. I don’t know how US guys would feel if American GO’s refused to take American hunters into hunting territories in the US, but Canadians don’t like it. Because of the remoteness of the camps they exercise a practical monopoly yet they own nothing but a licence to guide. They have no tenure on the land, yet they effectively keep residents out.

Again, sounds like a business opportunity, especially for Dewey , with his afore mentioned experience and connections.

Might be. Got a couple of million to buy out a GO? They are awarded exclusive rights on huge territories.

quote:

Horseback is the third way. There are a few outfits. They fly you in half a day from places like Fort Nelson at Mile 300 on the Alaska Highway. You meet the horses at flight’s end and ride another day or more to the hunt. Because nobody but GO’s can provide “guiding” services, the government sends conservation officers on covert investigations pretending to be hunters. They try to get a cook or a wrangler to help with something that can be defined as a guiding or hunting activity. If they succeed the whole hunt can be shut down, and horses and gear confiscated. As a result you have paid a lot of money to go on a ride deep in the bush with fellow hunters, but the guy you are paying can only help the horses. You get situations where a large party is a ½ day’s flight and a day’s ride off the Alaska Highway, a freshly shot sheep is being humped into camp to be cooked, but the wrangler has to be careful not to help hump it even though he’s gonna eat the BBQ sheep along with everybody else.
The wrangler has to just wrangle, whatever that is.

I have used leased horses and at times had to hire a wrangler as part of the lease agreement, on my self guided hunts in the US, they only handled the horses and mules.

So it sounds as though, in BC, they cannot cook, make or break camp, spot game, carry or clean game ,etc.

I don’t know the parameters, but if they step over them the shit hits the fan. Its one of those areas where the CO’s second guess the wranglers and the lawyers second guess the CO’s until some substantial case law is established. That can take generations, because the government is more interested in spoiling hunts and swapping fines for guilty pleas after the charges are laid and the gear and horses are seized. One of those and the wrangler just folds his tent and goes home.

quote:

The net result is that GO’s have effected a strangle hold on all resident hunting any deeper off a highway than you can backpack. Guys who have gone on horseback “camping trips” talk about all day in the saddle with elk on every ridge on both sides bugling, but nobody can get to them to hunt.

Sounds like my hunts in Idaho wilderness areas (horseback or foot only.)
It's hard work, and often results in no game bagged. I understand the frustration.

Some guys who have done the private safari route get back to camp at night and find it burned out, food destroyed and five days to wait for their return flight. No witnesses. Nobody but the GO in a thousand square miles. Wonder who did it?

quote:

Originally posted by BBBruce:
Wonder who did it?

George Bush? thats your usual answer.

Well, it seems as though the inimitable and irrepressible BBB may be gone from AR and his foes have finally succeeded in having him banned from posting here. So, I doubt that the very well-reasoned and thought-provoking posts he has made on this thread will continue and any further posts will be of the invidious nature of that by "Zambeziman", an example of "the ugly American", whose behaviour makes Americans unpopular here and elsewhere.

While this IS the "Canadian" section of AR and we have been discussing Canadian hunting, it has largely centered on BC and our problems with GOs and foreign hunters, so, I find the few slurs posted to be more the behaviour of guttersnipe trailer trash than anything worth real concern. As my late father used to say, "what can you expect from a pig, but a grunt?" and he was so right.

My conclusions, after participating in BBB's thread and others on the same theme are very simple; I now am more in favour than ever of a total ban on Americans hunting, fishing or backcountry recreating here in BC and in Canada, generally.

Whether BBB is gone from AR or not, he has done all concerned with this issue a service by initiating this thread and posting in it as he has done. He may well be a bit of a "nutter" sometimes, but, he stands far above most of his detractors in that he retains his sense of humour and posts material that, while unorthodox, is usually genuinely funny....."lang may his lum reek".

Time to find somewhere else to collect "trophies", boys, we in BC WILL change our situation and banning foreign access to our rare wildlife is only one aspect of this.

Dewey,

The problem if your politicans ban hunting for Americans in BC with your support, they are just a stones throw from banning all hunting even for you residents. And with all politicans if you give them an inch they take 100 miles.

I want all foreign hunting here banned, not just Americans.

The next change I want is for the government to actively pursue a "pan-Canada" policy of access to BC hunting by other Canadian citizens. This would be done by a "hunter host" programme and limited to a specific percentage of each species.

The native-born Guide-Outfitters could still offer their services to any other Canadians who choose to employ them and a "draw" system here would be the best method of regulating this.

The result would be CANADIANS hunting in CANADA with reasonable access to OUR game and at prices within the reach of most people who really want to hunt BC, since the effects of big foreign money would be eliminated.

I estimate that, very quickly, we would sell twice as many hunting licences here to both BCers and other Canucks and that would certainly be a huge influence on government to protect hunting. At present, the "Western Premiers" are meeting to discuss more productive ways and means of strengthening our western Canadian economy and this is one change that would work to that end.

My suggestion to all is do not pay any attention to Dewey's posts. Do not respond.
I am sure most of us if we look hard enough, can find that our families came from somewhere else other than Canada.
Watson Lake

One's ethnic origins have NOTHING to do with this situation and your comment shows a certain "racist" tendency. You may not value Canadian citizenship, however, I dammed well DO and find your comments rather foolish and not worth further consideration.

Duggaboy makes points here, as did BBBruce, that really DO make me consider other options and, Dugga's point about incremental change is obviously spot on. However, this IS what we have been trying and, so far, the GOs have screwed us in every agreement. I suspect that a LOT of the non-Canadians here would feel EXACTLY as I do, if this was happening in their state, province or country.

Oh, would some kind Texican please tell me exactly what a "little badger doody" is? It seems a bit of an epithet and I have never heard this term before.

Dewey I got to say you sure don't act like a Canadian, in fact you completely embarrass the rest of us real Canadians. Dewey is a waste of energy I suggest ignoring him from now on , like a bad cold , with enough sleep it might go away.

kind of like Herpes?

and i can only hope and pray that BBB is permanently gone. he is a perfect example of wasted bandwidth.

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
Dewey I got to say you sure don't act like a Canadian, in fact you completely embarrass the rest of us real Canadians. Dewey is a waste of energy I suggest ignoring him from now on , like a bad cold , with enough sleep it might go away.

I'm not a ...real... Canadian? Well, I was born here, my direct family ancestors came to Canada and, as it happens, the USA, in the early 17th Century and here to BC circa Confederation.

Three men in my family served in Canadian uniform in WWI and my maternal grandfather was among them and died young as a result of his severe wounds at Courcelette and Passchendaele, where he was an officer with the 21st Batt.-C.E.F.

Five men in my immediate family volunteered for Canadian service in WWII and three were injured. ALL of these were BORN in B.C. and so, your comment that I am not a real Canadian is as false and offensive as the rest of your illiterate, ignorant and asinine rant.

Now, you may wish to tell me how many of YOUR immediate family volunteered to serve Canada in both wars and why you find it necessary to call people names such as ...buttmonkey...? You have now insulted me, my birth,my family and should perhaps think about what you are doing here before posting further drivel of this sort.

If, not, well, you can continue to behave as a "guide" and impress everyone with your scintillating wit and charming repartee. Anyone can make these comments from behind a keyboard and only a gutless, insecure and witless coward would.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
kind of like Herpes?

Tell me, would you come to Canada and say this to my face? Comments like this do nothing to assist the preservation of American hunting here and, quite frankly, I think that only an idiot would make them.

Dewy, you sound like someone who really, really needs to get laid.

You excepted, as an American I've never met a true Canadian xenophobe. (Well, there's always BBB but he's a special case and no longer with us.) Quite the contrary, the vast majority of Canadians I encounter have no pathological hatred of Americans. In my vagabond youth I traveled the world in the company of Canadian companions and remember it as one of the better times of my life. We were well aware of the differences in our respective countries but realized that the things we held in common outweighed any perceived injustices.

I continue to enjoy traveling in Canada and it will take much more than a malcontent like you to dissuade me of that persuit. Most recently I attended a large family wedding in Banff and the merchants there had no problem with our presence. I guess they forgot to ask you.

You have no particular familial monopoly on service in the Canadian Armed Forces. I had a great uncle, an American, who flew for Canada in WW1. Another perished as a homesteader in an Alberta blizzard.

As for myself, I've injected hundreds of thousands of American dollars in the Canadian economy in the purchase of Canadian farm equipment....as have thousands of other American farmers. Next time I get ready to buy something I'll mention your attitude. Canadian custom harvesters travel the length of the US on an annual basis and return with millions of American dollars to your economy. From now on I guess they need to ask your permission too.

In respect to your beef with the G/O operators, you're certainly not alone. As a non-resident of Wyoming (but still an American) I can't hunt big game in Federal wilderness areas in that state---without paying for a guide & outfitter. The same for bears and sheep in Alaska. Get over it.

As far as your hatred of Americans goes, I think it's a symptom of a deeper sickness in your life. Go ahead and blame all your problems on America, we don't care. We're used to being the world's whipping boy.

As for me, I previously had no plans to hunt in BC, but after your posts, I've decided to save my nickels and dimes and enjoy a guided hunt there as soon as possible. And I've never paid for a guided hunt before in my life.

Thanks Dewey, I plan to enjoy it.

Oh, well, just for you, I will ask my wife what she thinks on this diagnosis; she is a medical professional with a longtime interest and considerable clinical experience in psychology.

A vagabond, yes, that is quite obvious; I WORKED during MY youth and did not "hippy" around making a display of my ignorance, as you have done here.

We have a similar situation in the NWT here, where we pay taxes to support the government there and, yet, if I move there to work, I must wait two years to qualify for a resident's hunting licence, or, pay a GO an astronomical sum for his services. So, we agree on this issue, at least.

This is a very good time to come to BC to hunt as game pops. are not too bad and it seems some of the GOs in the best areas have been having a lot of cancellations and offering some pretty sweet deals. What do you want as I may even know where the best chances are for some species and advise you accordingly....I don't hate Americans and I miss Brucie, he always made me chuckle!

badger doody = weasel shit.

Its all about money. Don't get me wrong I love hunting. I'd love to kill a grizzley bear or a moose But that is to much money for me.

Yup, that is so true and "sportsmanship", "fair chase" and getting meat to feed your family has buggerall to do with it.

Now, for a pleasant and decent chap like you, I may be able to help as my concerns have damm little to do with Americans, as such, and I like to assist good folks.

Grizzlies ARE very expensive to hunt and that will only increase. We have a growing population and I would like to see more of them killed by hunters in some areas as there are too many of them in some of our best hunting regions, i.e., the Muskwa-Gatho-Tuchodi and the Flathead and White Swan areas. So, that is probably out of your reach in financial terms.

However, there ARE some decent Moose hunts, especially for two hunters using one guide, all you need if the guide is any good, and many of these hunts are vehicle accessible. So, the way to get into one is to first research who offers them and then ask to be put on various "cancellation lists".

Have your savings, guns, gear ready to go and drive here in a van with several large coolers in it. Then, you can shoot your Moose, have it cut, wrapped, frozen and drive home, changing your ice as you need to.

This takes a lot of careful research, planning and some "logistics", but, it can be done and quite a few GOs offer these special deals on late season and cancellation hunts. The meat alone is worth a lot of $$$$$, so, that may help convince your "boss" that it is a sound investment.


"Chilcotin Hillbilly", if he reads this, might be able to suggest GOs in his area that have hunts of this type. I would look into the Chilcotin or the Peace regions for the best opportunities.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

quote:

Originally posted by chilcotin hillbilly:
Dewey I got to say you sure don't act like a Canadian, in fact you completely embarrass the rest of us real Canadians. Dewey is a waste of energy I suggest ignoring him from now on , like a bad cold , with enough sleep it might go away.

I'm not a ...real... Canadian? Well, I was born here, my direct family ancestors came to Canada and, as it happens, the USA, in the early 17th Century and here to BC circa Confederation.

Three men in my family served in Canadian uniform in WWI and my maternal grandfather was among them and died young as a result of his severe wounds at Courcelette and Passchendaele, where he was an officer with the 21st Batt.-C.E.F.

Five men in my immediate family volunteered for Canadian service in WWII and three were injured. ALL of these were BORN in B.C. and so, your comment that I am not a real Canadian is as false and offensive as the rest of your illiterate, ignorant and asinine rant.

Now, you may wish to tell me how many of YOUR immediate family volunteered to serve Canada in both wars and why you find it necessary to call people names such as ...buttmonkey...? You have now insulted me, my birth,my family and should perhaps think about what you are doing here before posting further drivel of this sort.

If, not, well, you can continue to behave as a "guide" and impress everyone with your scintillating wit and charming repartee. Anyone can make these comments from behind a keyboard and only a gutless, insecure and witless coward would.

Dewey my family history reads virtually the same as yours, coming over on the boat in the late 1700's many family members fighting in both world wars. The one thing that separates us is the the respect given to ones that deserve it. You defiently do not deserve any respect from anyone. And just to let you know I have no problem saying anything to anyone face to face. Infact I quite enjoy putting deserving people in their place. For the record, I can only remember one arrogant prick which I guided who actually was from Vancouver not the states. As a rule most clients treat us with respect and friendship. The buttmonkey comment was probably uncalled for but you really sound like an antihunter the way you attack the hunting communnity in general. Next time you are up this way look me up and and we will discuss the witless coward momment, bring a straw you may need it.

Every now and then God makes a Stupid person to keep things stirred up. In this case it looks like Dewey is the Stupid one. God also made no cure for stupidity so Dewey I guess you will be like this forever.

Howdy, Dewey!

I've never been to Canada and it's been years since I hunted, but that said: I'm still trying to get my brain around this one.

Dewey, if you please;

1) in your view: has this mess with foreign hunters always been; or did it develop over time.
In other words: has it EVER been okay for americans to hunt in Canada, as you see it?

2) if it was okay in the past; where did things go astray?

3) Why can't we go back to that point?

CHB, my family came here with Sir William Alexander in 1627 and to the eastern US a few years later; I really do not CARE about this, other than to point out my "Canadianness", which you chose to deny.

Thus far, your attempts to supposedly put me in my ...place..., have consisted of misspelled, poorly written and non-factual slurs upon me and little else. You started the exchange of nasty comments and I merely returned some in kind; if, you wish ...respect..., then act with courtesy and I shall offer it to you.

The implied threat in your final comment is simply stupid and you and I BOTH KNOW that you will not attempt to injure my face or any other part of my body. You may be uncouth, ill-spoken and VERY defensive, however, this is not American TV and you are not as stupid as you appear....

So, maybe assist the gentleman here who is not welloff, but, would like to hunt a Moose here in BC? Is he not the kind of guy that both of us empathize with and would be happy to help?

Iowanic, thankyou for your courteous and thought provoking post, hope you will stick around.

1. No, this has largely developed as foreign "ownership: has increased from circa 1980 or so. The whole obsession with "trophies" has seriously "warped" traditional hunting here in BC and THAT really NEEDS to change.

My concern is with ALL foreign hunters-ownership, not merely Americans. It WAS usually "OK" for Yanks to hunt-fish here and most of the guys we used to meet were fine.

However, things have changed and NOT in a manner that is beneficial to BC citizens; my strong feeling is that things went ...astray... when foreigners began to pay ridiculous prices to shoot sheep, Grizzlies and now RM Goats and Elk....$40,000 USD for a ram.....that is just bizarre, IMHO!

I "think" that "we" may well be able TO ...go back", but, the GOS and the wealthy hunters who support them DO NOT want this....soooo, guys like me now are becoming totally opposed to ANY foreign involvement in BC hunting-fishing and I prefer to focus on this, as other Canadians may want a different situation in their provinces and have that right.

Now, I was supposed to leave this morning and my buddy had to work "graveyard" and his back was really bothering him, so, we have waited one day. We WILL leave tomorrow morning and I am going to do some serious thinking on this issue and then perhaps re-visit it in a couple of weeks when we return.

While this issue CAN arouse a lot of unpleasant feelings and thus inchoate remarks, it IS a very valid discussion and will certainly affect how I do what little I can to effect the changes in BC hunting that are so obviously necessary.

Take care all and, as "The Grateful Dead" used to sing, "keep on truckin"

quote:

A vagabond, yes, that is quite obvious; I WORKED during MY youth and did not "hippy" around making a display of my ignorance, as you have done here.

Sorry to disappoint you, Dewey, but I worked for two years to pay for that trip and basically gave up a chance for a 4 year college education because of it. Never regretted a minute of that time and have been self-employed for the last 37 years. You ain't the only working man on the block. As for "ignorance", well, you have no monopoly on that.

Gosh Dewey, now that I think about it, it looks like you and I have gotten off on the wrong foot here. You are apparently under the impression that I actually care what you think about me. I don't. But like you, I find it tiresome when another casts aspersions and condems my entire country and culture based on his perceived image of select members of that community. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I like Canada & Canadians...in general. I'll be willing to make an exception for you.

Part of the problem here is that as Americans, we have 10 times the population of Canada. That means we have 10 times the number of assholes. In the interest of being a good neighbor and desiring of continental equality, I'd be quite happy to offer you half of them. What say we start with Obama & Bush? No reciprocation necessary and you can keep Harper. He doesn't qualify as an asshole until he gets a majority government. Besides, we gave you a good start in the late 60's with our 50,000 draft dodgers.
All that aside, I hope you have a good expedition. I spent the day sighting in the 300 Win for my upcoming moose hunt. No guides, no outfitters, no concessions, no territories...you get the picture. If your trip doesn't work out for you, then come down and shoot an antelope or mule deer sometime. They'll charge you $350 for the license, but, no guides, no outfitters, no concessions no territories...you get the picture. I even have a little Canadian whisky on hand.

I still think you sound like a guy who really, really needs to get laid. Try buying her some flowers. Maybe whisper something naughty in French. Muli-cultural means multi-lingual, right? Or you could go the Ogden Nash route, you know..."Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker".

Anyway, good luck with that and good hunting too.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

Now, you may wish to tell me how many of YOUR immediate family volunteered to serve Canada in both wars and why you find it necessary to call people names such as ...buttmonkey...? You have now insulted me, my birth,my family and should perhaps think about what you are doing here before posting further drivel of this sort.

Since you asked, some of my family fought in the Expeditionary Forces in WWI which certainly helped preserve the Commonwealth in part if not in whole.

My father left the oilfields of South Texas in 1940 to join the RCAF and fought in Hurricanes in the skies of Britain until September 1942 when he was mustered into the Army Air Corps to continue the fight in P-38s (hence the avatar). My mother's brother died as a waist gunner in a B-17 over Germany and his body was never recovered.

I can assure you that they were not fighting to save the world for xenophobes like you.

You know, Dewey is trying so hard to sound like he perceives the British, the upper crust that is, talks. Not the Canadians I know. Dewey, old pip, I think you've been watching too much late night telly. What.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
kind of like Herpes?

Tell me, would you come to Canada and say this to my face? Comments like this do nothing to assist the preservation of American hunting here and, quite frankly, I think that only an idiot would make them.

i would love to do just that but i never intend to spend another dollar in Canada because of the atitude of jackasses like you!!!! i feel sorry for the friendly Canadians who post here having to put up with people like you and BBBruce-oops, that's right- he is long gone.

Despite his behaviour elsewhere ,BBB was quite courteous in this thread. I appreciate his input here.

Although, he , nor anyone has shed light on the inner workings of how territories get assigned.

Sounds like a key point of attack.
Particularly, if as suggested, foreign financiers are deeply involved.

Seems like Canadian investors would lobby to preempt such investment---that is, if big money is really being made.

As mentioned, the very same issues are arising in US hunting with respect to guides and costs;
BC is not "special" in this regard as to the "average' hunter's ability to afford such hunts.

Again, truthfully the escalating cost has been a fact since after WWII, when North American guided hunts began to flourish.
(as , well as other regions)

If, as stated , camps are being looted/destroyed, groups venturing on their own need to be three to four minimum and rotate time away.

As to "too old" for minimalist hunting, most alpine hunters agree that while age may be a factor, it rarely stops the dedicated hunter.

Also, it appears scrutiny and revision of what constitutes "guiding and or outfitting" is in order; with perhaps, aircharter being not considerred outfitting as well as perhaps a "wrangler" permit being created.

After reading through this thread, it becomes appearant that there are a few Canadians that have a 'real problem' with americans. I have never experienced this before as Canadians always seem to be very nice folks. I had thought to hunt Canada several times, but the border/ gun registration/ no handgun kept me from it. If there are more people like Dewey, perhaps it is a better idea to just skip BC in particular and just head to Alaska. I can't imagine BC would offer anything in the way of hunting that Alaska could not offer also?

Stop in between B.C. and Alaska

Hunt the Yukon

Watson Lake

The jist of this thread stinks. I agree, based on what I read, that residents are being denied what I think should be basic hunting rights...but to blame that on anyone than your own politicians / government is wrong.

I would not be happy with your resident restirictions either, but why blame an American, someone from Europe or any other country? Start voting people in office that like to hunt and over time hopefully changes will be made that give residents more access.

If I choose to hunt in the American Western states, I know upfront that I have to pay a premium for the tag (sometimes maybe 10x greater than a resident) and I don't like it. But I don't see any reason to suddenly express hatred for a resident of that state becuase I have to pay more.

Don't believe everything you hear. Dewey is a little bitter about something. I have hunted every part of BC as a resident and have never found any hostile outfitters in any area. Infact I have had a lot of usefull info past on from a number of the outfitters I met while hunting. There is lots of game to go around, and we have long generous seasons compared to the states. We have no quota on most of the big game trophy animals like the outfitters do. Any draws we have for sheep and such are usually for a small easy accessed area which the sheep would be wiped out with the weekend warriors. If areas are a little game poor you can put the blame on the wolves.

Dewey

Why don't you tell us what it is you would like to see as far as changes? Do you wish to have Zero outfitters?
Zero foreign folks hunting and fishing in BC?

All this back and forth crap with the cheap shots included seem rather childish to me.

Lets stop all that and have outline what exactly it is that you would like to see for the future of hunting in BC

Regards Greg

Chilcotin,
Thanks. You seem to be the typical folk I have met in BC. Like I've said before, every Canadian I've met has been more than friendly and never a hint of bitterness about me or anyone I was with hunting. That goes from the airports to the rental car agencies to the hotels to the restaurants (notice the cash flow?). Matter of fact, on my walkabouts in BC or the NWT (and soon Alberta), when I'm asked if I'm American it only helps to strike up more conversation. Heck, most want to know why we're turning more liberal since it hasn't worked there...
In turn I always behave as a guest should.
Dewage is the ONLY person I've come across with a chip on his shoulder. Therefore, he is the isolated case in BC.

Bluefin, Chicoltin - Thanks for your replies. I would really enjoy deer hunting in Canada, but not if I am going to be harassed because on nationality. "In turn I always behave as a guest should"...that is a great statement. I don't have the salary that affords me a lot of the hunting opportunities I read about. In general it is a shame that a lot of hunting for non-residents has become so expensive. No doubt though that costs have gone up too for every outfitter in remote places (i.e. fuel, food, horses, etc.).

agreed on your comments Bluefin, well said; I've been to Alberta/BC on 6 separate hunts, and am returning to AB this Nov for a muley/whitetail hunt... I too, always conduct myself as a guest should, and across the board have found that the Canadians I've met are salt-of-the-earth people....

Conversely I'd also agree that it stinks for residents of any Province, or State, to not receive some sort of preferrential treatment with respect to access to their own resources...

My business partner just returned from AB yesterday, arrowed a 165-170ish whitey, 8-point with double droppers just starting....Canada is truly God's country when it comes to the outdoors....

Best Regards,
Craig Nolan

quote:

Originally posted by Fasteel:
Dewey

Why don't you tell us what it is you would like to see as far as changes? Do you wish to have Zero outfitters?
Zero foreign folks hunting and fishing in BC?

All this back and forth crap with the cheap shots included seem rather childish to me.

Lets stop all that and have outline what exactly it is that you would like to see for the future of hunting in BC

Regards Greg

Good post and more in line with what I think the originator of this thread had in mind.

I would like to see a total five year moratorium on ALL "non-resident" hunting here in BC, starting in 2010. Then, I want to see an "audit" of the entire Ministry of Environment and the whole GO system PLUS serious population studies of our various game animals.

The BC Wildlife Federation is NOW calling publicly for just such an audit, partially to investigate the rapid growth of these internationally active, foreign-funded "hunting" companies that pose as BC Guide-Outfitters and now militate to obtain both larger quotas of our game and restrict resident's access to some of our finest hunting grounds.

When properly conducted, the population studies will give we BCers a better idea of just what game we have and thus how many of each species can be sustainably harvested per season. I tend to query the current MOE figures on population and have learned to never believe anything that a GO says about any aspect of game management, so, these studies are crucial, IMHO.

Once these are completed, I would like to see a system implemented whereby BC CITIZENS get a flat 85% of ALL game and this would be encoded in legislation, NOT left at the "discretion" of the Fish and Wildlife Branch Regional Managers. The other 15% would be, by STATUTE, reserved for CANADIAN CITIZENS living in our other provinces and territories, so that they would have some opportunity to hunt a Stone's Sheep, Roosevelt Elk and a Grizzly; this would be administered by a "preferential points" type of draw and ALL out-of-province hunters WOULD HAVE to hire a "certified" guide OR be accompanied by a BC resident, as is now the case.

I would prefer to see the entire system of GO tenures changed and GOs be licenced to hunt anywhere in BC, BUT, they would HAVE to be BC born, NO foreign investment in their operations would be allowed and the penalty for non-compliance would be SERIOUS gaol time in a "max" joint.

So, with better game-habitat management and a system like this designed for CANADIANS to utilize OUR resources, we would all benefit and I want to see ordinary, working Canucks from Belleville, St. John, Summerside and Twillingate be able to hunt in BC, rather than have fatass, loudmouthed and bush-inept foreign pricks slaughter our game....you know, the kind that threaten me on this forum when I dare to post that I will politely but firmly tell foreign hunters to leave here as they are not welcome......my reaction to this, in person, would be fast, brutal and merciless.

I have seen a lot of BC and was just in Alberta last Saturday, I see some similar problems of an environmental-hunting nature and hope to do my duty to my country to alleviate these. What do you think about trying to get the National Parks put on "draw" for all CANADIAN hunters, or, perhaps those over 60 and any handicapped, as in wheelchair bound?

There is a LOT more to this, we are now entering what promises to be another "war in the woods" here in BC due to the never-ending greed of industry and totally inept and morally deficient "management" of our current provincial government....this is going to be one hell of a conservation battle, but, I am confident that we BC conservationists and decent people will win.

This is a very basic description of what I want to see relevant to BC hunting; I want science-based management, a responsible and well-funded government service and BC hunting kept for CANADIAN citizens ONLY as we do not have the wildife to continue allowing the travesty of foreign "trophy" collecting and should ban this, forthwith.