And the other one. R.

[URL= ][IMG]

Well, you can at least get monoblock measurements off that "barrels on a 1/2 shell"

LOL

Yeoww! That monoblock is a bit skimpy!!! Got the book on building DRs on Shotgun actions, was a little dissapointed that specific actions weren't listed for use with different calibers, and some inconsistent advise about welding vs soldering seems to be in there, but at least I know more than I did yesterday. For me, 45-90 seems to be a good compromise- the 45-70 factory loads should be shootable. And I see some 457 barrels on sale.....

Rodney, is Derek A. doing the smithing on your project?

Keith

Hogkiller, yes and no on the smithing. Derek has been very kind to me in letting me use his facilities. There has been alot of input on this especially in a step by step process. I have obtained advice from others who have done this, one whom owns a rifle company here. These are way too labor and time intensive for most smiths, so it's really not profitable to them until a manufactureing process can be developed. So I'm doing most of the work with the needed help of Derek and others. Rodney.

Rodney, is the owner of the rifle co. Dave H?

Keith

Hogkiller, it's getting to be a real small world around here if that answers any questions. Anyhow moving along on the projects and will post more pics. Rodney.

Got my ribs, 45/120 brass, and dies..

so, this is HEAVY brass, almost exactly the same as my couple pieces of 450 NE .. sure, its a bit smaller, about .050 or so... but not hugely smaller..

remember, I want 400gr at 2050 ish, which should be very easy in this brass
jeffe

xs HEADSPACE,

You only thought it was a "skimpy" mono block. How about this, it was only glued together. R.

OUCH .. skimpy

why I am building a 45/120 double, not 45/70..

a picture is worth 1000 words

quote:

remember, I want 400gr at 2050 ish, which should be very easy in this brass

Did you ever see one of the doubles Butch Searcy made in 45-120? Hallowell had one for a while but sold it just about the time I asked about it. It was on a BSS action so it was one of the older ones.

If I recall correctly it was regulated with the 400 grain Barnes X moving at a fairly good clip, but I think I lost the information in a hard drive melt down.

why the 45-120 and not the 450NE

busy whittling chunks off the block of 4140!

Jeffeosso, have you decided on any starting loads for the beast yet. Will you be using any blackpowder loadings? Was wondering what your opinion of duplex loads would be? Doesn't hurt to have maybe a few grains or so of SR 4759 between a good charge of FFg and the primer. Very interested, because this is new to me. Rodney.

Rodney
no BP loads ... i'll start with some load 450 NE loads .. and use the heck out of quickload to make certain I am keeping a lid on it.. 2100 at about 30K psi with a 400gr (or rem 405( is easily doable... if one can get to 2100 with a 45/70, well, i've got 50% more case!

all that being said, I haven't received my barrels yet, so if its over 9.5#, i am going to see what we can get out of 500 gr bullets ... 2000FPS with 500grs or 2100 with 405s ...

jeffe

Awesome Jeffeosso, I'm staying with blackpowder due to much weaker action. Will bring it March 9th and show you. Thanks, Rodney. p.s. just hope I'm finished!

Okay, I've removed 90% of the metal on the lumps and greener... headed to home depot to buy some sand paper, and believe it or not, chainsaw files... i am about 50% of the way to closing the action on the new monoblock

Rodney, I did a 550 flanged, a 577/500 blown out to basically a gibbs case, necked to 550, on a jana shotgun, and I "only" monoblocked the old barrels (the gun was f'ed and wouldn't shoot as a 12ga) ... I'll redo that one this fall, mebbe... anyway, I am going the math for presure and bolt thrust... i can go to 35,000PSI NO PROBLEM with the 45/120, but I want to keep it at 28K or so..

Remember, mine is a "sauer royal grade" which I am told is actually a merkel, and the action is harder than a lawyers heart

I am TICKLED with the progress...

I have
ribs
monoblock (15% done, reallY)
reamer
dies
brass
drill bits
7/8-24 tap
7/824 die
boring head

time
cnc mill (doesn't help as much as you would think it would) to take .001 cuts at a time, bc 4140 hardens more or less INSTANTLY

i hope to have it on face and ready to bore barrel holes in a week...

HEY KEITH!!!
jeffe

okay, mebbe 50% of the way on fitting the mono block to the action... time to go slow and serious

Wanted to show a comparison of the 50-90 Sharpes to 45-70 and 458 Win Mag. Left to right 50-90 Sharpes, 45-70 Govt. with 405 grain remmy, 50-90 Sharpes with 700 grain cast lead bullet, and 458 Win Mag with 510 grain Winchester soft point. Background is actions being converted. Rodney.

first open knuckle, hammer gun i've ever seen...

man, the 50-90 aint much impressive.. got a 50/110 reamer?

The hammer-gun is an LC Smith #2 grade from 1909 and was/ is a 12 guage before destruction. The other is a Laurona "Spanish gun". The Smith will become the 50-90 and the Laurona somthing lesser. Rodney.

450 #2 as it builds less pressure with that big ole case..besides its a great double rifle caliber..

All calibers mentioned recoil too much for the calibers listed IMO..but you guys are tougher than normal homosapiens..

hey Ray.. 400gr at 2100fps is a maiden's kiss, man!!

400 grain at 2100 fps should be about 3912 #'s energy if my calculation was good. Darn good for just about anything. My little project will be much slower about 1300 fps and at 2600 #'s energy at the muzzle for starting loads with a 700 grain cast lead bullet. And to think this cartridge has possibly taken more meat off the range than any other with the slaughter of the American bison. Kind of sad to think about that way. But in my opinion it will make a fun big bore plinker toy. Rodney.

I am just trying to make a decent range pig gun, that can hit a deer at 150, and smack a pig or water jug as close as I can stalk to it!

smoke, fit, wittle, smoke...

shesh

Steady, Man, Steady

One forkfull at a time. That's how you eat an elephant.

Carry on !

Elmo

A hardened Browning BSS is one of the best actions to build a double rifle on IMO..They make a really nice double..I built one in a .470 with the help of Rick Stickley, he did most of the metal and I did the stock. He let me help on the metal a little bit, and it was an interesting experience, especially the regulating..It was a .470 and I did a fantastic trigger job on it..The first firing doubled and near killed me, so he fixed it..3 Lb. triggers are not for a double in .470..10 crisp is better!

400 grs. at 2100 is a maidens kiss, and a maidens kiss ain't half bad, if you keep shooting!

OK, 2 barrels in hand(bargain A&B 458 from Midway-$68 ea on sale this mo.) Sauer 12 ga 1950 proof on order. My cartridge book lists 45-90 as only 5 gr less cap than a 458Win, and the 33K loads for the 458 are listed at 2000+ fps, so I'm going with the 45-90. PS Midway has the 45-120 reamer on sale, too, on their website, for you masochist types.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodney H.{500Jeffery}:
And the other one. R.

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Rodney, I'm just wondering why you cut the barrels the way you did?

I think a good chambering would be a rimmed 416 Rem mag ish. Get cheap A/B barrels, trim the chamber end to get rid of the belt area, you might have to cut the neck and throat longer depending on which 45-?? brass you use and end up with a 2.7" ish case.
Quickload shows the 416 Rem can push a 400@ 2150 with 35k pressure.

Isn't Starline makeing 45-90 cases? Or are they only 2.6"? They'd be cheaper anyway. If the 2.6" 45-90, then start with a 416 Taylor barrel and either make a longer neck or cut the chamber deaper with a 416 Rem reamer. Then cut down 416 Rem dies to load with, or use 416 Taylor dies turned out abit.

Here's some thoughts with different length cases and aproximate figures.

Bolt thrust pressure base pounds thrust Bore Bullet Velocity powder-charge

416 Taylor with 45-110 case, 2.5" -92 gns 40 0.505 2550 0.416 400 2040 RL-19 69gns 340-2290, 67gn RL-15
416 Rem with 45 basic 2.85"- 107 gns 40 0.505 2550 0.416 340-2400, RL-25 400-2200 RL-22 82gns 450-2130, RL-25
416 Rem x 3.25 45 Basic 130gns =416 Rigby 40 0.505 2550 0.416 340-2530 400-2340 450-2240, RL-25 450-2200, RL-22

Some 45 cal stuff
45-120 3.25", 113gn H2O 40 0.505 2550 0.458 400-2290 500-2020
45-100 2.6", 87gn H2O 40 0.505 2550 0.458 405-2100 500-1800
45-70 +P, 79gn H2O 40 0.505 2550 0.458 400-2030 500-1755

And 50-90
50-90 32k 32 0.565 2554 0.510 440-2100 535-1850

Some pics of my 470 on a Belgian 12 ga. Some of the pics aren't the best, sorry.



Pac-Nor blanks. Ended up ruining one and went with a Bauska for the replacement.

NECG sights mounted on the rib.



Repair job when the stock started cracking. Reinforced with epoxied screws and a steel recoil block.

How does she shoot, what does she weigh, etc.etc. Please do tell.

xs - go 45-120, lower pressure for the same vel, and cheap cheap norma brass

Glenn, still looks awesome.. did you solder those in?
jeffe

Actually it's still about 90% done. Was in a rear end accident 3 years ago that put life on hold, but things are looking better now.

Each barrel will hold around 2" at 50 yds. I got the right barrel to shoot to the sights, then soldered it in.
Tapered last 12" of barrel but left last 1" full diameter of 12 ga barrel. Filed one side down and shimmed with strip of brass to push the barrel the direction I wanted the bullets to go. Then silver soldered to hold and started on the left barrel.
I had both barrels within 3" at 50 yds, but was trying to get them right on top of each other and went too far with last fileing and adjustment. So I thought I'd just weld the end back up and go again in smaller steps, but blistered the bore of the barrel. Should have just shimmed it back. So I got a Bauska to replace it. Currently they are about 4-5" apart, I just need more time at the range.

With both barrels in, it weighed about 8.5lbs. I drilled a hole in the butt and made a 1 lb lead slug. The recoil isn't bad at all. What hurts the most is the middle finger of my right hand that gets bashed by the trigger gaurd. I got a finger recoil pad from Brownells and it works great.

I have around 200 rounds through it and it still won't close on a piece of printer paper.
I've been shooting 500gn cast, but loaded Barnes XLC to the same velocity and they both shoot to the same point.

I made up some dummies
rem 405 at 3.8 and 4.03
barnes TSX 450 at 4.15 (could be way longer)
Hornady 500 at 4.7

Looks like, at 23.5" barrels and 30k MAX psi
rem405 can go just over 2100
TSX at 1850-1900
Hornady 500 at 1900....

Bet I regulate for rem 405s at 2100 ??

jeffe

Lar45, I basically cut the chambers out of the one you were referring too, to get to the piece in the middle with the locking lugs on it. On an earlier post of mine where I was showing cartridges, the same action is on the left with center piece only in place. That action will get full diameter barrels of which I will tig weld into place. The action on the right is an LC Smith with bueatifull chain damascus shotgun tubes which will only be sleeved. There are many more details to both of them. Just trying to finish the LC Smith "hillbilly double" before the shoot. It will be a 50-90 Sharps, did that to help keep the weight and pressures down. Rodney.

Rodney
Okay, now i get it.. I wouldv make certain i had tigged the 1/2shells together BEFORE i tigged the barrels in.. or just make a new monoblock... i just wouldn't trust that compromised 100 year old brazing...

jeffe

the "crack head" bigbore (handirifle in 45/70) is now a 45/120.. a 6.25# 45-120 ....
we'll see how it shoots next week

6.25# ouch. You know there is a hole in the butt stock that could be filled with lead.

I think the NEF action might hold more abuse than your shoulder will.

A 405 at 2100 sounds pretty reasonable. The article on the 475 Turnbull showed Cape Buff on the ground with similar numbers.

I'm no expert though.

more 45-120 norma brass on the way... it seems nearly everyone wants a dummy!