Nice shooting. Can't wait to see the results with a full house load experiment.
One thing, though, is 34 degrees really cold?!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
.... One thing, though, is 34 degrees really cold?!
Cal

Hello Cal,

Thanks for the reply.

Not compared to where you live.

But its pretty cold for a shooting session when you're trying to carefully concentrate on each and every shot to test regulation.

Otherwise it would have been a great day for hunting.

It was in the high 70's today...frigid!

Hello Aaron,

Lucky You!

I'm going out again today to try higher velocity loads, and the high is expected to be 32 degrees, with a lot of snow.

At 32*f my wife has her lawn chair out
Nice job Aaron...
Great start to a great looking gun...

Nice regulation, keep those targets and images coming!!

Hello All,

Here's today's update. Not a very nice day at the range. Temperature was 30 degrees - Wind was in my face at 20mph - and it was snowing an inch per hour.

I had to cover the chronograph between strings to keep the light screens clear.

So .... I stayed with AA5744 powder to keep the powder weight down. (powder weight is a factor in gun recoil) Estimated data was obtained from AA last year and I also used some of my earlier measured velocities as a guide to "increasing the load" for the following.

I fired 4 shots with each load and recorded average velocity and group size. All were shot at 50 yards.

110g = 1680 ave vel - 2-1/4"
115g = 1780 ave vel - 2-3/8"
120g = 1840 ave vel - 1-1/4"
125g = 1940 ave vel - 1-5/8"

I used the 100yd folding leaf rear sight because yesterday the standing leaf printed low near the bottom edge of the target and I wanted to get the groups up higher for measuring. I'll dial-in the sights as needed once I settle on a load.

Let me start by saying this; I'm the first to admit that I'm not man enough to shoot a lot of these high velocity loads. I'll be saving them for when I'm in imminent danger of being eaten or stomped to death. They really kick the crap out of you.

As I recorded the data for each string, I made note of the increasing recoil level. However, after firing the first 2 brutal shots of the 125g load, the next 2 shots were drastically lower in recoil. I was a bit confued as to why that would be until I noted the low chronograph readings for those last 2 shots. They were in the 1500fps range. I had accidentally grabbed two of my regulating cartridges from yesterday that were loaded with only 95.5g of powder.

I then fired the last 2 of the 125g load into the same target so it had a 6 shot group instead of only 4. The first 3 targets were great, but the last target really tells it all. I think you'll have to agree.

I'm not sure if any time too soon I'm going to push that last load up by 3 grains just to squeeze out 2000fps. I think 1940fps with 8,360 ft/lbs of energy should do just fine for any dinosaur that might be encountered here in Wisconsin. If I do shoot a 2000fps load, (8,880 ft/lbs) I'll post the data here.

All things considered, I'm so very pleased with how this rifle build turned out. I don't think I could have expected more.

A big "Thank You" to Aaron Little. Aaron told me that this was his first 700NE - I'm sure he'll be building more.

Great project! If you ever see another one of the Larona 10 gauges pleas let me know. I would love to have one.

Hello Colin Masters,

Thanks for the reply.

I got lucky when I bought this Larona with it having been built by Pedro Gorosabel. Not many were. His quality is superb.

This 10ga was originally slated for a 600NE build, but it was so nice, I didn't do it. And then, I actually had a 900 grain 10ga slug mold made and used it like that for over 80 rounds. I sent a few of the loaded rounds to a balistic lab to check the pressures of my loads since I was in uncharted waters and didn't want to hurt the gun, or me. I really liked it.

Only when the 700NE project came about, did I sacrifice it. I've been looking for another Larona built by Pedro Gorosabel ever since. If I find "two", I'll let you know.

Hello All,

When I received the rifle back from Aaron on Tuesday April 7th, my daughter took some photos of my shooting. This was when I tested the 1500fps regulation loads that are posted on the previous page with the 3 targets. It was cold, damp, freezing drizzle, and miserable, but I couldn't resist shooing the rifle now that it was finally finished.

For those interested, I'll go through my shooting procedure. A short video at the end shows a 4 shot sequence being fired and the data being recorded. The ugly old man in the red hat is me. Keep in mind I'm shooting the "low velocity" regulation loads.

The set-up is rather simple. I place a stool on top of the shooting bench with spacers and a boat cushion to achieve the correct height for shooting from a standing position. I shoot the rifle supported with my left hand under the gun, resting the back of my hand on the cushion to keep steady. The chronograph is placed 15 feet in front of the muzzle, in-line with the targets at 50 yards.

Binoculars on the bench at the right are used to see the chronograph readings because my old eyes can't focus clearly at 15 feet anymore. The spotting scope on the left is on another stool and used to see the bullet holes on the target. The shot position and sequence with velocity readings are recorded on the note card. I also manually double check the chronograph readings by sequencing through the shots, and I also record the standard deviation. Then I walk down range to measure the groups. I do this procedure between shot strings and wait about 10 minutes for the rifle to cool before shooting the next shot string.










My daughter couldn't resist a "selfy" with her old man. Don't I look happy?



After shooting, I'm back in the warm club house, I look a bit haggered from the cold and the 16 shot pounding, but I'm happy as can be with my new toy.




Here is the link to the video. Feel free to comment. CLICK > > > > > > 700NE Shooting Video< < < < < CLICK

Way cool! I would love to find one of those 10 gauges.

I also love the shooting bench, another thing I will take away from this!

Great pics & video, Buck! I knew your regulation idea would work! After all, you simply regulated for the low end of the 75% rule for your starting point. All the DR company ( chapius, merkal, etc.) regulate with factory ammo so are already up there pressure wise. Any increase would lead to groups crossing and possible damage. Probably why they say not to use hand loads, etc. or it voids the warranty. By having Aaron do the build, you were able to "build in" the top load regulation. Pretty sure I understand your reasoning. Now, let's see the video of you shooting the big load! That lower velocity load in the video looked like it gave you a pretty good shove. C'mon,we gotta see it!!

Looks like a fun day with great results.
The 2/3 circle type targets that you are using did you make them or are they purchased.

Hello quartermain,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I'm very pleased with the results of my build / experiment. I'll check with my daughter's schedule to see if I can get her to do another video of me shooting the maximum velocity loads, although I don't relish the impending beating. Also, I had all to do to keep from losing control of the rifle with those maximum loads, and I don't think it will compliment me with a video documenting such. But, I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll add the 3 additional grains of powder to take it to a full 2000fps. I am planning on getting a pair of leather shooting gloves to help with the grip on the rifle.

Hello Zephyr,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes indeed, it was a fun day with really great results.

I've tried a lot of different targets over the years, and found this one to work the best for my iron sight shooting. I drew the original target myself with an Auto-Cad program, and printed it. I then had a few hundred copies made on 8-1/2" x 11" paper at a local print shop so as not to use up all the ink in my ink-jet printer. I try to keep it as close to scale as possible so that the squares are exactly 1" spacing. Inside diameter is 7-1/2" and outside diameter is 10-1/4". Its easy to see the circle up to 100 yards and the eye naturally centers the sights into the center of the circle for consistant aiming. You really don't need the bottom half of the circle because the bottom of the iron sights and the barrels block it out. I use a smaller full circle when I shoot my double rifles that have a scope.

Damn! And to think of all the years I've been using shooting sticks. When I depart for a Zim elephant hunt on July 7 I will leave the sticks behind and bring a 5-gallon bucket. Seems to work.
Good report.
Cal

Hello Cal,

Thanks for the reply.

Don't forget the boat cushion.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello quartermain, Yes, I'm very pleased with the results of my build / experiment. I'll check with my daughter's schedule to see if I can get her to do another video of me shooting the maximum velocity loads, although I don't relish the impending beating. Also, I had all to do to keep from losing control of the rifle with those maximum loads, and I don't think it will compliment me with a video documenting such. But, I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll add the 3 additional grains of powder to take it to a full 2000fps. I am planning on getting a pair of leather shooting gloves to help with the grip on the rifle.

Hello All,

Well, like I told quartermain, I made it out to the range today and my daughter video taped me firing Full House Loads in the 700NE. I can assure you it will be quite a while before I do that again. I'm not a glutton for punishment. But I did up the load to 128g AA5744 in hopes of obtaining 2000fps.

I couldn't find any place that sold shooting goves, so I puchased a "pair" of Golf Gloves for today's test. (they aren't really sold in "pairs", you have to buy a "right" and "left" separately - golphers?) The gloves really helped in hanging onto the rifle. They are made of very thin leather and really "grip" the stock. Only on shot number 3 did the gun slip control slightly. Only problem with the gloves is that they are "White" - so someday I'll have to dye them black or brown so they don't look so girly.

On this day's shooting I didn't interrupt my shooting cadence with record keeping. My daughter watched through the spotting scope and recorded the shot sequence, and I downloaded the chronograph velocities after I was done shooting.

WOW ..! You can see my face in the video - I'm not doing much smiling during the punishment phase, but when I walked down to retrieve the target, I grinned from ear to ear.


Here is the video link > > > > > > > Shooting the 700NE with Full Loads < < < < < < < Here is the video link


Today's target.

Most excellent shooting, Buck!!! To shoot a group like that, knowing what's coming each time you touch those triggers, well sir, you have earned our utmost respect! BTW, I learned your secret.... If'n I dont' cut my hair, can I shoot that good? Are ya listening, Shootaway?

I was really enjoying the video until both white gloves showed up at the very end

Looks like you'll be needing some physical therapy, a few grief counselor sessions and some shoulder surgery if you keep shooting full house loads.

Awesome regulation! I'm sure you're very pleased. What a great project, thanks again for sharing.

Hello quartermain,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm of the "hippie" generation. My parents used to make me wear a "flat top" when I was a kid - so I rebelled, and I'm stil rebelling. I hid my long hair under my coat this time.

I do a lot of off-hand competition shooting - 2 Winter leagues, one is National. I shoot over 2000 rounds a year standing on my hind legs. You have to have good trigger control to stay competitive. Each and every shot has to be a surprise. With this one .... comes a "BIG" surprize!

Hello mt Al,

Thanks for the reply.

Shoulder is OK, but I got a headache after the second shot. Nice thing is, it makes my 600NE seem more recreational.

Buckstix,

Thank you for posting, in great detail, the steps in making 700 Nitro brass from 50 BMG, the progress of your gun build and what turned out to be a very interesting lesson in double rifle regulation. Being a collector of, shooter of and avid hunter using European sporting arms I’ve had to form brass using that of one cartridge to make another but never anything as wild as the steps you have taken to make your 700 Nitro. I’ve also regulated my share of double rifles, have read Graeme Wright’s “Shooting the British Double Rifle” and others, understand the “75% Rule” but have never seen it applied in this manner.

Truly a job well done and thank you for the time you have taken to educate others.

Regards,

Mark

PS – Like others I’m sure, I’ve noticed your naysayers have been silenced. I’m figuring they’re still munching away on crow and hope that they’ll “man up” and admit they have learned something new. As to the “factory” folks, I’d like to think they too use this method but there is that possibility that tradition has them sentenced to a life of now seemingly senseless beatings from regulating the “Big Bores”.

PSS – Forgot to mention the videos are fun to watch. Be careful not to get your leather golf gloves wet. I learned a long time ago that when wet they can be as slippery as snail snot.

This is one of those cases where a splinter forend is a necessity. impressive shooting and regulation.

Hello Buchseman,

Thanks for the reply.

This has been one of my most fun projects / experiments. Tomorrow I take it Turkey Hunting. I wonder if I'll be the first to bag a Gobbler with a 700NE.

Hello Aaron.

Yes, a splinter forend would help with recoil control. Maybe when I get done licking the honey off it, I'll send it to you for "splinterizing".

Hello all,

Well, I've had my first disappointing failure. I really wanted to take this 700NE Turkey hunting tomorrow, so to test it I loaded up some shells with 2-1/4 ounces of #5 shot with my standard 1500fps charge of 95.5g AA5744 powder. The 2-1/4 ounce payload equals 382 pellets. I used a 16ga over the powder plastic wad, filled the case with shot, and put an over-the-shot card on top. Then I gave it a hard crimp.

That's a payload of 1000 grains - same weight as a .700 bullet.

I fired the first barrel from 25 yards. Recoil was about the same as using a bullet. However, I didn't see a lot of pellet holes. So, I moved closer and fired the left barrel from only 20 yards away. This was a complete and total failure.

Those 2 shots totalled 764 pellets. Of them, only 17 pellets hit the paper - and none of them were even close to the Turkey. You can see the 17 holes circled on the target. I would have thought that with such a large payload of shot, there woud have been more pellets that made it to the target, inspite of the twist of the rifling. Not so!



When I got back to the bench, I looked down the bores and found a lot of residual leading at about 10" ahead of the chamber in each barrel.

I grabbed a couple of my 1500fps loads with the 1000g Woodleigh Soft Points, and proceded to fire a pair of shots in hopes of "shooting-out" some of the leading. With nothing but the Turkey target set-up at 50 yards, I took careful aim and put the front bead right on his head.

Unfortunately, here in Wisconsin you can only hunt Turkeys with "shot" and not bullets. Darn! I'll have to take a shotgun tomorrow morning, and leave the 700NE at home. I likely be taking my antique 1885 Hopkins & Allen falling block shotgun in the morning. I've proven in the past that you can use a fine antique shotgun for Turkey hunting, and be just as unsuccesful as using a modern shotgun.




By the way, I used to say that most double rifle groups were typically measured by minute of "Pie Plate". This one seems to shoot minute of "Turkey-Face".

So neat to see. I will never complain about recoil again. I imagine we have the same taste in music.

Cheers!

Hello Colin Masters,

Thanks for the reply.

I have found that one can become more accustom to heavy recoil, with practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
So neat to see. I will never complain about recoil again. I imagine we have the same taste in music.

Cheers!

I heard clink, clink, boom, boom (multiple times). Did I miss something?

It's nice to see someone handle that big bore. A .375 even kissed me, but I claim user error.

Hello DCS Member,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm going through my big bore phase of life. I think I've reached my limit.

Wow! Better man than I, Gunga Din! Serious rifle, serious recoil!

Buck,

Old age and experience has obviously made you a much, much tougher man than I am!

And I LOVE the "damn these safety glasses. Better just toss them aside" move.

Hello Rusty,

Thanks for the reply.

Not really. I'll not likely be doing that again.



Hello rnovi,

Thanks for the reply.

Those weren't safety glasses. Those were my reading glasses. I only need them to see up close.

The very first time I shot this rifle with a MAX load, I had a problem. After the first shot, my eyes went "blurry" and I could hardley see the gun in my hands. When I closed my right eye, things looked better, but when I opened the right, and closed my left eye, things looked blurry and fuzzy again. My right eye was badly screwed up and out of focus. I really got afraid that I had messed up my vision from the heavy recoil. All those stories about a detachrd retina raced through my head. I wasn't sure what to do next, and I thought maybe I should call 911. I got out my cell phone, but I could hardly see the numbers on it to dial. And then ..... I stepped on the right lens that had beed knocked out of my reading glasses. When I picked it up the lens and snapped it back into the frame, everything was clear again.

So that's why I take off my reading glasees and toss them on the bench, before I shoot.

Awesome post!!!

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello all,

Well, I've had my first disappointing failure. I really wanted to take this 700NE Turkey hunting tomorrow, so to test it I loaded up some shells with 2-1/4 ounces of #5 shot with my standard 1500fps charge of 95.5g AA5744 powder. The 2-1/4 ounce payload equals 382 pellets. I used a 16ga over the powder plastic wad, filled the case with shot, and put an over-the-shot card on top. Then I gave it a hard crimp.

That's a payload of 1000 grains - same weight as a .700 bullet.

I fired the first barrel from 25 yards. Recoil was about the same as using a bullet. However, I didn't see a lot of pellet holes. So, I moved closer and fired the left barrel from only 20 yards away. This was a complete and total failure.

Those 2 shots totalled 764 pellets. Of them, only 17 pellets hit the paper - and none of them were even close to the Turkey. You can see the 17 holes circled on the target. I would have thought that with such a large payload of shot, there woud have been more pellets that made it to the target, inspite of the twist of the rifling. Not so!



When I got back to the bench, I looked down the bores and found a lot of residual leading at about 10" ahead of the chamber in each barrel.

I grabbed a couple of my 1500fps loads with the 1000g Woodleigh Soft Points, and proceded to fire a pair of shots in hopes of "shooting-out" some of the leading. With nothing but the Turkey target set-up at 50 yards, I took careful aim and put the front bead right on his head.

Unfortunately, here in Wisconsin you can only hunt Turkeys with "shot" and not bullets. Darn! I'll have to take a shotgun tomorrow morning, and leave the 700NE at home. I likely be taking my antique 1885 Hopkins & Allen falling block shotgun in the morning. I've proven in the past that you can use a fine antique shotgun for Turkey hunting, and be just as unsuccesful as using a modern shotgun.




By the way, I used to say that most double rifle groups were typically measured by minute of "Pie Plate". This one seem to shoot minute of "Turkey-Face".

The world needs more .700 turkey guns. I imagine the rifling sent the shot flying.
Cal

With the diameter of the bore on that rifle, would it be possible to just slide a sleeve down each tube in 20 ga and have a heavy shotgun?? Just a thought.

Take your shot column and pour melted wax into it.
That will keep the shot from spreading...

Watched the video . . . well done. If that were me I am afraid after four consecutive rounds my ability to count backwards from ten would have been severely impaired.

Hello Cal,

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm done trying to have this "double" as a shotgun. I just thought it would be neat to hunt something in the Spring, and not have to wait 7 months for the Wisconsin hunting season.


Hello matt salm,

Thanks for the reply. A very interesting thought. But I think a 20 pound shotgun wouldn't be for me.


Hello Huvius,

Thanks for the reply. That would make an interesting experiment someday.


Hello MJines,

Thanks for the reply. Even counting "up" from 10 was difficult.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello quartermain, Yes, I'm very pleased with the results of my build / experiment. I'll check with my daughter's schedule to see if I can get her to do another video of me shooting the maximum velocity loads, although I don't relish the impending beating. Also, I had all to do to keep from losing control of the rifle with those maximum loads, and I don't think it will compliment me with a video documenting such. But, I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll add the 3 additional grains of powder to take it to a full 2000fps. I am planning on getting a pair of leather shooting gloves to help with the grip on the rifle.

Hello All,

Well, like I told quartermain, I made it out to the range today and my daughter video taped me firing Full House Loads in the 700NE. I can assure you it will be quite a while before I do that again. I'm not a glutton for punishment. But I did up the load to 128g AA5744 in hopes of obtaining 2000fps.

I couldn't find any place that sold shooting goves, so I puchased a "pair" of Golf Gloves for today's test. (they aren't really sold in "pairs", you have to buy a "right" and "left" separately - golphers?) The gloves really helped in hanging onto the rifle. They are made of very thin leather and really "grip" the stock. Only on shot number 3 did the gun slip control slightly. Only problem with the gloves is that they are "White" - so someday I'll have to dye them black or brown so they don't look so girly.

On this day's shooting I didn't interrupt my shooting cadence with record keeping. My daughter watched through the spotting scope and recorded the shot sequence, and I downloaded the chronograph velocities after I was done shooting.

WOW ..! You can see my face in the video - I'm not doing much smiling during the punishment phase, but when I walked down to retrieve the target, I grinned from ear to ear.


Here is the video link > > > > > > > Shooting the 700NE with Full Loads < < < < < < < Here is the video link


Today's target.

Recoil doesn't seem too crazy. Not something I'd wanna shoot 100 rnds in a set, but not too bad.

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:
Recoil doesn't seem too crazy. Not something I'd wanna shoot 100 rnds in a set, but not too bad.

Hello DOPPELGANGSTER

Thanks for the reply.

That's exactly how I feel!