Many know me here and this happened to me this past weekend...I was debating whether or not to say something about this experience..
I have been shooting bigbores since 1999 and moved up to a double rifle in 2005 having shot a 375 and 458 Lott... I am no expert on doubles but have been able to control recoil very well and practice what I preach.. I have shot 450#2, 450/400, 500NE, and a 577NE and have never had any problem..
Well I was shooting with 577NE and Doc 52 when this occured.. Shooting the 577 I did not hold it properly for a front trigger pull and I doubled the 577NE... I was wearing ear protection with the circuit breakers in and only heard one shot... Now here is the scary part... Upon doubling the 14 pound rifle flew out of my hands like I was not holding on...Did a full 180degree turn and struck 577N.E. in the chest...then fell to the ground...I was afraid of a discharge not knowing the rifle had fired both barrels... Then if the rifle had hit 577NE, Paul Jr. in the face the front sight would have caused a serious facial wound...
I now feel better after examining over and over in my mind what happened and lead up to the double discharge...
A safety recommendation is to stand to the left or right of the shooter and not directly behind...
A humbling experience...

Mike

Mike:

I'll shoot with you again any day; I know you can handle the .577.

So...when are we going shooting again?

Hey Mike, let me know what range you shoot at. I'll try not to be there.

All kidding aside, I know these things can happen, reference the video a couple of months ago where someone was shooting a 4 bore double and clunked an elderly gentleman over the head with the barrels. The older man was standing slightly behind and to the right of the shooter!

Geronimo

Mike, that makes two men still alive who have doubled the .577 and lived to tell the tale. Glad you survived the event as well, Paul!

Well, Mike, you have now joined an august group of double shooters - the double doublers. I have to note that that mean Bitch of the Pauls has been responsible for more than one person joining your ranks. She is indeed a handful with full power loads. I shot her with some new Knyoch 577's I brought along, and Jerry Lee Lewis' song, "Great Balls of Fire" came to mind - she shakes your nerves and rattles your brain.

Perhaps she is in a jealous rage right now, and lept out of your hands to strike the man who is bringing a new concubine into his double harem, a Belgian mistress no less. That has to be it.

Glad everyone is OK.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, how's the rifle?

Mike, it is very good news that there were no injuries...or worse. Thanks for sharing this with us, as even the most experienced shooters will have events similar to this. This is a good reminder not to let your guard down, when at the range with friends.

It does happen.

I doubled a Chapuis 9,3 yesterday and it rung my bell!!!

I'll bet that's why they say to pull the rear trigger first on those bad boys!

Doubling is bad enough when it's done with a shotgun. I can't imagine it in a big rifle. Glad nobody was hurt.

Put the video of this event on YouTube.

I'm glad no one was seriously hurt to start with... BUT
The burning question that I have is did you hit the target with the first shot?

It's a very good lesson for us all! So many of us have come to know each other in person,

and have had the chance to shoot with one another. Mike is a very, very good shooter/hunter.

He is very safety oriented. If this can happen to him during one micro short instant, it can

happen to ANY shooter. I thank you Mike for posting it. It just shows us all that be-

ing extremely "tuned-in" to every detail while shooting is NOT optional. Something

"took" Mikes attention to detail for that split second, and we have this story as a result.

It's good the injury was not too bad. I hope the rifle is not too much different after it's

unexpected "flight". I am glad Mike did not let false pride stop him from helping the rest

of us at his own expense. I'd hunt/shoot with him any day, he's a good man. The HAWKS, father

and son team like wise are TOPS. If you've ever met one or both you know that. I've shot a
500 NE and the 577 NE that they've owned. To Mike P. and Paul Sr. and Paul Jr.

WOW!

Glad to hear that everyone is OK. Damn scary event for sure.

Good to hear all OK.

A mate of mine has a photo of a Jeffrey 600 Nitro
in Mid air above and behind the shooter and then
another one as it sruck the ground. So you are not alone in letting them go.

Wow is right glad everyone is ok. I have never doubled anything that big Just a 12 with slugs. I can’t imagine……
Bill

Mike, Paul: Glad everything turned out OK. Now, a question: please describe the proper hold for a big double when shooting the front trigger first. I'll soon (probably be done in about six months) be getting a Searcy .577, & your coaching & advice would be appreciated. Thanks, and I'm getting anxious to see everyone in January at the DSC show. FRANK

Frank:

The double discharge was probalby caused by Retreever accidently "struming" the rear trigger when he pulled the first trigger. (My .577 is fitted with intercepting sears so the rear trigger had to be depressed.)

(And after the incident, we loaded one live round in one of the barrels and a spent case in the other, pulled the trigger, shot the rifle, opened the gun and ejected the case. Only the barrel that was actually fired ejected the case as my gun is fitted with ejectors. We did the numerous times with live rounds in both barrels and spent cases in the other one. Each time the same thing happened.)

Now, when this incident happened, I was behind Retreever, slightly off to his right. I was looking through binoculars so I didn't see anything before the rifle hit me.

Now, one thing I know about shooting DRs; when placing your finger on the front trigger, I put only the very, very tip of my finger on the trigger. I have seen lots of guys place more of their finger (such as onto their first knuckel) onto the front trigger. I personally think that doing this makes the rest of the finger lay closer to the rear trigger. With recoil in a large bore rifle, placing your finger like this, I think, may cause you to strum the rear trigger with your trigger finger during recoil.

Now, I have no idea if this happened to Retreever or not, but it is possible.

That would not have happened with my 577BME bolt action rifle!!!
You better play it safe and send me that thing for a complete safety evaluation...and about 100 rounds to do a complete double blind test!

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
Mike, Paul: Glad everything turned out OK. Now, a question: please describe the proper hold for a big double when shooting the front trigger first. I'll soon (probably be done in about six months) be getting a Searcy .577, & your coaching & advice would be appreciated. Thanks, and I'm getting anxious to see everyone in January at the DSC show. FRANK

Frank

To answer your question you should wrap your front fingers around the forend and the barrels. Leave only enough gap to see the sights through.

If you have a good grip the rifle will not jump out of your hands, even when doubling.

I would guess that Retriever didn't have a good enough grip around the forend and when the rifle recoil started the rifle jumped up and into his trigger finger.

I have always found a full finger on the trigger is best. Put the first joint on the trigger and it will not slip off and hit the rear when the rifle recoils.

There is a big jump in recoil between a 470/500 to a 577.

Good Luck with your new rifle.

quote:

There is a big jump in recoil between a 470/500 to a 577.

True, but I will shoot the Hawk's 577 NE/Searcy, over a 500NE/Merkel. I would rather have the big shove over the sharper jab.

Glad to hear things turned out alright in the end. Mike, I will be looking forward to hearing the "account" first hand in Dallas. (Paul and Paul Jr, too)

Keith

Glad it all turned out OK.

I doubled my Merkel 470 once. Quite a surprise. Would not want to do it again, especially with something bigger like a 577.

Tim

I agree with Gator.

You should wrap your fingers around the bbls.

Your trigger finger should contact the trigger at the first joint. Your trigger pulling hand should grip the stock Hard. When you pull the trigger, pull it all the way through and hold it back. [See M1 Garand, M1-A/M14 techqnique below]

Try not to release your trigger finger until you are comming down from the recoil, THEN shift to the rear trigger.

It is kind of like shooting a Match trigger on an M1 Garand/M1-A/M-14.

If you pull the trigger "gently" loke shooting a 2 lb Bolt rifle you wi;ll probably get a double, ie 2 shots fired.

I shot a Match triggered M1 Grand yesterday, and I can make it double at will, and on accident if I "gently" pull the trigger.

Proper technique calls for you to put a little more finger into it and pull straight baqck all the way to the triggers max rear travel stop.

These big bore doubles "ain't" dainty precision rifles. Do not handle and shoot them like they are.

Kinda like a Rattlesnake, If you ever pick up a 5 to 6 footer, you hold it HARD.

All,
I talked to Mike last night, and we went over the chain of events that lead up to the double discharge. First, he set up to use the rear trigger first, he took up the some of the travel in the trigger, it apparently has more travel than he is used to with his 450#2. He then broke the action to see if it was cocked, closed it back up and went to the front trigger for his first shot. I'm just guessing here, but by depressing the rear trigger to take up the creep, that may have caused the sear to be slightly disengaged, and when he pulled the front trigger instead, the recoil caused the rear sear to disengage at the same time. I'm not an expert here, but the chain of events make me believe that this is a possibility. Further shooting of the 577 showed no problem with further doubling. I must say that seeing your DR doing back flips is not a very happy moment, but it sure was comical after we figured out what had happened, and that everyone was alright. I just wish I had it on tape. The look on Mikes and my Sons face... PRICELESS!

To all I grip the double around the barrels very tightly, vice like grip... same in the pistol grip very tight loose trigger finger...I use my finger tip to fire, smooth pressure... What happened in a millisceond that rifle went out of my hand like I was not even hanging on...Felt no additional recoil and cant believe how is was torn from my the pistol grip hand and fingers not banged up by the trigger guard...

Mike

quote:

All,
I talked to Mike last night, and we went over the chain of events that lead up to the double discharge. First, he set up to use the rear trigger first, he took up the some of the travel in the trigger, it apparently has more travel than he is used to with his 450#2. He then broke the action to see if it was cocked, closed it back up and went to the front trigger for his first shot. I'm just guessing here, but by depressing the rear trigger to take up the creep, that may have caused the sear to be slightly disengaged, and when he pulled the front trigger instead, the recoil caused the rear sear to disengage at the same time. I'm not an expert here, but the chain of events make me believe that this is a possibility. Further shooting of the 577 showed no problem with further doubling. I must say that seeing your DR doing back flips is not a very happy moment, but it sure was comical after we figured out what had happened, and that everyone was alright. I just wish I had it on tape. The look on Mikes and my Sons face... PRICELESS!

I got $20 that says it took Doc 45 minutes to type that - he's a single finger man! Kinda like this:

That's too funny...

Was going to mention to Doc at DSC that he should look into getting a Man-zeer, but he was holding his 577 at the time.

That sounds kind of like being in a car wreck. I am also glad no one was hurt.........how did the rifle fare after the back-flips to the ground (...not that I'm insensitive, but given enough time most flesh wounds will heal)?

I had a similar thing happen to me but with a 7lb SXS 12-Ga. shotgun. Of course, it is no .577 Nitro, but a lightweight 12-Ga. can be pretty humbling when both barrels go at the same time!

It stunned me for a couple of seconds, and when I was again aware of what was going on, I found myself with the forend of the gun (it had "self-detached!") in my left hand, with the muzzles pointing straight up. The butt was still on my shoulder, which felt pretty numb! I was still standing, but about 4 feet to the rear of where I had been standing at the time the thing fired. Not an experience I'd care to repeat, for sure!

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
To all I grip the double around the barrels very tightly, vice like grip... same in the pistol grip very tight loose trigger finger...I use my finger tip to fire, smooth pressure... What happened in a millisceond that rifle went out of my hand like I was not even hanging on...Felt no additional recoil and cant believe how is was torn from my the pistol grip hand and fingers not banged up by the trigger guard...

Mike

quote:

...I use my finger tip to fire

Mike

I think this was your problem. Your finger is already almost parallel to the rear trigger and by just using the tip to control the squeeze you are asking for the recoil slip it off the front to the rear.

It doesn't take much for the finger to move and the recoil is plenty to set off the rear trigger on a 577.

Use the first joint on your finger and you will not have to worry about a Doubling that you cause.

Was the rifle damaged? I remember watching a 600 cartwheel through the air and land stock first on the concrete. It shattered the butt, broke the full tang and scraped the engraving on one side.

Major reconstruction

All,
In answer to all who asked how the 577 made it through the backward flip, not too bad at all.
She has a slight nick up at the muzzle, and the bottom edge of the stock has a small indentation that will problably steam out. I already repaired the leather covered recoil pad.
As soon as she gets a few more dings in her, I'll ship her back to Butch and have him touch her up.

I say cut your other three fingers off. Just kidding, and glad to hear no one was hurt. I too have doubled my 12 gauge but thats nothing compared to your experience. Having been a range official and president of our local rifle & pistol range, one things for sure, these occurences can happen to anyone regardless of experience and is good to share and learn from. Thanks for sharing this with everyone.

Glad no one was injured and as a bonus the .577 came through the ordeal fairly well.

If someone shoots enough something "unexpected" will (probably?, eventually?) happen. The key is having this event be a humbling learning experience and not one of terrible consequences.


John

No need to wet your pants over it. This is what makes shooting big bores fun.

Post a photo of the target! It will be interesting to see how close the holes are!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Mike, that makes two men still alive who have doubled the .577 and lived to tell the tale. Glad you survived the event as well, Paul!

I know a third, I was standing behind him when it happened... the gun doubled (one sound, not 2) and it is more or less exactly what you described....

he was bruised BLACK for about 32 sq inches (4x8) and held onto the rifle... both shots hit the pig....

I walked up behind him, took the rifle from his stunned hands, as the third stalking buddy helped him sit down....

do a recoil calc on a 577 load (750gr 2050, 126gr powder) in a 1# rifle... and that's the recoil that the second shot more or less presents, as intertia has already been overcome.
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
I got $20 that says it took Doc 45 minutes to type that - he's a single finger man!

Hey, I owe you 2 bucks over the spartan bet!
jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:...I use my finger tip to fire

Mike

I think this was your problem. Your finger is already almost parallel to the rear trigger and by just using the tip to control the squeeze you are asking for the recoil slip it off the front to the rear.

I agree. Classic route to a double discharge. The greater the recoil, the more likely that method will make it happen.
----------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

It is a common practice to pull the front trigger first because it has been rumoured for years that is the way doubles are regulated..

That, according to my many tests, is just bunk!! The guns will shoot the same either way, thank you Butch Searcy, who clued me in on this after I parted my scalp with a .470...

I always pull the rear trigger first and have had no doubleing since that time..

I had them double on more than one ocassion prior to that...

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
No need to wet your pants over it. This is what makes shooting big bores fun.

what a richard

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
It is a common practice to pull the front trigger first because it has been rumoured for years that is the way doubles are regulated..

That, according to my many tests, is just bunk!! The guns will shoot the same either way, thank you Butch Searcy, who clued me in on this after I parted my scalp with a .470...

I always pull the rear trigger first and have had no doubleing since that time..

I had them double on more than one ocassion prior to that...

It is common practice to pull the front trigger first because that is the way double rifles are designed. That is why the front trigger is on the right of the rear trigger.

You can shoot one anyway you want but learning to do it correctly is usually the best method.

If you squat to take a leak, you can use the rear trigger first. Those who stand to heed the call of nature use the front trigger first.