So many, NOT careing is the reason our country is on the path it's on!

DM

In prior dialog on this thread, you may find what is "perhaps" the reasoning Miller used a history of military service. Until this dialog was presented, I doubt many were aware of what "may" be the situation.
In the State of California business concessions are allowed to veterans not unlike MWBE's (Minority, woman owned businesses). His company in Paso Robles would fall into that category (If he owned 51% and was actively involved in the company as a veteran). If that is the case and he perhaps used that platform for Tax abatements or other financial incentives then I would suspect it would invite prosecution from the State; not sure about the Feds?? Generally speaking the States complete a pretty thorough due diligence prior to awarding these certifications.
If that is the case he has a lot more to worry about than our personal sentiments. Tax fraud??

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
How does any of this rhetoric effect any of us? How many complaining were in the Marines and have a beef? I do not think that subject is pertenint to the rest of us.
How many here lost money investing with Miller?
Who has a gun on order with Miller that has not been delivered?
Is answering any of these questions on this forum going to fix their issues? NO!

Discussing this certainly does not enlighten us further to typical informative dialog on this forum.

Who cares???

EZ

I simply can't believe the post above! Has everyone in this country lost all sense of right and wrong? Those citations where given to honor the winner for an act of valor, it doesn't bother you that some piss ant walks around claiming to be a hero? It makes no difference if you have been in the marines, or in fact any branch of the service the theft of valor is a crime, and the bastard who steals it should be prosecuted.

Well said Mac. And the reason we have someone like Obama as President.

Let me ask some of you about WHO Cares!!!
How many of you own a Toyota or foreign owned vehicle; sending jobs and profits over seas?
How many of you shop at Walmart and buy 95% of their goods from China. How many of you actually look at what they buy to see where it is made?
Let me tell some of you self rightous bloggers a thing or two.
There is not one foreign car in my garage, I will NOT set foot in a Walmart, There is not one tool in my garage that says forged in China on it, not one bench grinder, drill press, table saw that does not say made in the USA. My lawn mower was made in the USA! I own Polaris 4 wheelers (not Hondas, Yamahas or Suzukis'). I own two John Deer tractors, one made in Illinois; the other in Augusta Georgia. The barb wire on the fences at my farm is domestically produced. Not one stick of furniture in my home was not made on shore in this country, not one fireplace screen. Not one picture frame says made in China; Not one candle or candle stick!
So you know the difference between you and me? I give our men and women a opportunity to have a good job after they get out of the service rather than having a minimum wage job at Walmart or Macdonalds.
It is one thing to walk the walk for our country ,it is another to spew rhetoric over the internet about how patriotic you are while driving your Nissan to Wally world.
I learned a very hard lesson many years ago when I bought a ACURA car. My father being a WWII veteran of the Pacific refused to ride in that car. It hit me very hard the expression on his face, the first time I drove it up to his home. He told me his heart felt sentiments about that acquisition . I sold that car the next day and remember his words as if they were yesterday. He instilled in me my buy American mind set and I have not veered since nor will I!
For those on a international level. I would expect the same of you for your country.
Do not come to me and say I do not care and if anyone in Dallas would like to discuss this with me face to face; just tell me when and where! Better yet I will be more than happy to meet you at my farm and put a 15 lb chain saw in your hands and show you how to do work the old American way while we have our discussion!
You guys can talk all the politics you want, but what DO YOU DO as an individual to help our county; politics aside.
Take a good look in the mirror!

This thread has gone way far away from double rifles. It truth it never was about double rifles. It is either a personal beef with Geoff Miller and attempt to use Craig Boddington against Geoff Miller, or a personal beef with Craig Boddington using Geoff Miller as a means to attack Craig. Either way it is a pissing match that doesn't have any thing to do with double rifles or any of the rest of us. I suggest we simply tell Mintyman to take his issue up with the guy with whom he has his beef and leave the rest of us out of it.

Terry Reese

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Let me ask some of you about WHO Cares!!!
How many of you own a Toyota or foreign owned vehicle; sending jobs and profits over seas?
How many of you shop at Walmart and buy 95% of their goods from China. How many of you actually look at what they buy to see where it is made?
Let me tell some of you self rightous bloggers a thing or two.
There is not one foreign car in my garage, I will NOT set foot in a Walmart, There is not one tool in my garage that says forged in China on it, not one bench grinder, drill press, table saw that does not say made in the USA. My lawn mower was made in the USA! I own Polaris 4 wheelers (not Hondas, Yamahas or Suzukis'). I own two John Deer tractors, one made in Illinois; the other in Augusta Georgia. The barb wire on the fences at my farm is domestically produced. Not one stick of furniture in my home was not made on shore in this country, not one fireplace screen. Not one picture frame says made in China; Not one candle or candle stick!
So you know the difference between you and me? I give our men and women a opportunity to have a good job after they get out of the service rather than having a minimum wage job at Walmart or Macdonalds.
It is one thing to walk the walk for our country ,it is another to spew rhetoric over the internet about how patriotic you are while driving to Wally world.
I learned a very hard lesson many years ago when I bought a ACURA car. My father being a WWII veteran of the Pacific refused to ride in that car. It hit me very hard the expression on his face, the first time I drove it up to his home. He told me his heart felt sentiments about that acquisition . I sold that car the next day and remember his words as if they were yesterday. He instilled in me my buy American mind set and I have not veered since nor will I!
For those on a international level. I would expect the same of you for your country.
Do not come to me and say I do not care and if anyone in Dallas would like to discuss this with me face to face; just tell me when and where! Better yet I will be more than happy to meet you at my farm and put a 15 lb chain saw in your hands and show you how to do work the old American way while we have our discussion!
You guys can talk all the politics you want, but what DO YOU DO as an individual to help our county; politics aside.
Take a good look in the mirror!

Damn that struck a nerve! Now just one question, do you have a double rifle? If you do where was it made if you don't mind my asking such a fine American who doesn't feel his
gut wrenching to hear of a little coward piss ant claiming the be a Navy Cross winner, when he was never even in the Marines!
This discussion has absolutely nothing to do with buying American, if it did we wouldn’t be discussing double rifles in general! But Navy Cross winners, and cowardly Navy Cross thieves are as American as it gets HOSS. I don’t care where or what you buy, but if you don’t care about the preservation of the honor of our service men, then the wheels on your Harley are spinning in a cow pie.
PS: From your other post???????? Why would a fine upstanding American like yourself go along with lieing about military service to get a tax abatement, that again is thievry, and even if that were his reason for lieing that has nothing to do with claiming to be a Navy Cross winner.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
This thread has gone way far away from double rifles. It truth it never was about double rifles. It is either a personal beef with Geoff Miller and attempt to use Craig Boddington against Geoff Miller, or a personal beef with Craig Boddington using Geoff Miller as a means to attack Craig. Either way it is a pissing match that doesn't have any thing to do with double rifles or any of the rest of us. I suggest we simply tell Mintyman to take his issue up with the guy with whom he has his beef and leave the rest of us out of it.

Terry Reese

For those who don't know it, Geoff Miller is the managing Director of Rigby's in CA and Craig Boddington is on the B.O.D. This is one of 3 companies in the US that are building DOUBLE RIFLES although they are made by converting German shotguns!!!

Mac,

I hardly require a person from a military back ground to have any medals of valor to gain their admiration. I am humbled to be in their presence just seeing them in uniform. I am the first to extend my hand and thanks them for duty to country where ever I see them. My simple way of gratitude is doing my part is to help provide good jobs for those after they leave their duty and it strengthens our country.

To answer your question regarding double rifles. I own a Heym (German). I looked pretty hard at the Searcy rifles and actually liked what I saw. I discussed their offerings with Butch Searcy in years past.
I was told by numerous parties to get non bias opinions across the board and I did by what many consider the best resources in the USA. In sincerity all suggested alternatives. An area I had no expertise;
I do not recall any additional alternatives being offered domestically. If I was conscience that Rigby was being Mfg in the USA, I would have looked at them as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommyhawk:

For those who don't know it, Geoff Miller is the managing Director of Rigby's in CA and Craig Boddington is on the B.O.D. This is one of 3 companies in the US that are building DOUBLE RIFLES although they are made by converting German shotguns!!!

What companies are you saying are converting German shotguns?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
[

What companies are you saying are converting German shotguns?

Excuse my poor writing. Only Rigby's uses German shotguns on a regular basis to build double rifles.

The big 3 represent everything that is wrong with businesses in America. Hmmmm....buy an "American" car whose parts where manufactured in Mexico and put together in Mexico, Canada, or the US or buy a "Japaneese" car whose parts were manufactured in Mexico or Japan and assembled in Mexico, Canada, or the US and lasts twice as long as the "American" car. Hmmmmm....yeah I own a Tundra and wouldn't trade it for all the Silverados, Rams, Sierras, and F150s in the world. Supporting the monument to inefficiency and waste that is the big 3 is a personal choice not a patriotic act. Let Mr. Miller get his and let's get back to double rifles!

Brett

[/QUOTE]

then the wheels on your Harley are spinning in a cow pie.
[/QUOTE]
Harley mag wheels are made in Australia by the way.

About the non-gun products, considering modern U.S. demographics and decades of unfettered immigration both legal and illegal, the question is, even if made here, then by whom?

As for double rifles I did my part by buying a Searcy.

Silly boys!

My ole 99 Harley has 80 spoke wire wheels that were made by American Wire wheel company that at the time were mfg around Gainsville, Texas (2000). I believe since moved to the midwest.
They were not cheap!

quote:

Originally posted by Tommyhawk:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
[

What companies are you saying are converting German shotguns?

Excuse my poor writing. Only Rigby's uses German shotguns on a regular basis to build double rifles.

Sorry to say sir the California Rigby, is not a converted German shotgun either! They are built on a MERKEL 20 ga SIZE RIFLE action. Merkel only makes two actions in the side be side configuration, and both are rifle actions. One sized like a 20 Ga, and the other sized like a 28 ga, but are true rifle actions. So it is the Merkel "SHOTGUNS" that are built on RIFLE actions, rather than the other way round. The non-sense that Merkel double rifles are built on shotgun actions has been spread around in gun magazines, and the public repeats this misconception. I tell you now, there is no problem with a double rifle built on a Merkel action, it will outlast you and your grand children, if cared for properly.

Rigby uses only the body of the action, and fits their own mono-blocked and Pac-nor barrels to the Merkel action. IMO, the best feature on California double rifle is the fact that it is built on a Merkel action body. Merkel builds all their actions to handle rifle pressures, and utilizes the same action to build their shotguns as well. These actions are sized like shotgun actions. With the largest being the 20 Ga size and the smallest being the 28 ga size, but are rifle actions.
......................

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Let me ask some of you about WHO Cares!!!
How many of you own a Toyota or foreign owned vehicle; sending jobs and profits over seas?
How many of you shop at Walmart and buy 95% of their goods from China. How many of you actually look at what they buy to see where it is made?
Let me tell some of you self rightous bloggers a thing or two.
There is not one foreign car in my garage, I will NOT set foot in a Walmart, There is not one tool in my garage that says forged in China on it, not one bench grinder, drill press, table saw that does not say made in the USA. My lawn mower was made in the USA! I own Polaris 4 wheelers (not Hondas, Yamahas or Suzukis'). I own two John Deer tractors, one made in Illinois; the other in Augusta Georgia. The barb wire on the fences at my farm is domestically produced. Not one stick of furniture in my home was not made on shore in this country, not one fireplace screen. Not one picture frame says made in China; Not one candle or candle stick!
So you know the difference between you and me? I give our men and women a opportunity to have a good job after they get out of the service rather than having a minimum wage job at Walmart or Macdonalds.
It is one thing to walk the walk for our country ,it is another to spew rhetoric over the internet about how patriotic you are while driving your Nissan to Wally world.
I learned a very hard lesson many years ago when I bought a ACURA car. My father being a WWII veteran of the Pacific refused to ride in that car. It hit me very hard the expression on his face, the first time I drove it up to his home. He told me his heart felt sentiments about that acquisition . I sold that car the next day and remember his words as if they were yesterday. He instilled in me my buy American mind set and I have not veered since nor will I!
For those on a international level. I would expect the same of you for your country.
Do not come to me and say I do not care and if anyone in Dallas would like to discuss this with me face to face; just tell me when and where! Better yet I will be more than happy to meet you at my farm and put a 15 lb chain saw in your hands and show you how to do work the old American way while we have our discussion!
You guys can talk all the politics you want, but what DO YOU DO as an individual to help our county; politics aside.
Take a good look in the mirror!

Where was the PC made that you typed all of that on???

EXACTLY what models are your john deere's??? Deere doesn't ------> "build" a tractor in Georgia, they do a FINAL ASSEMBLY there, as the parts come from Japan, Mexico, India, and yes even China! Deere bought a tractor/car plant in China, and more and more of their parts are coming from it. Some of the new deere loaders are made completely in china!!!

DM

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
[

Sorry to say sir the California Rigby, is not a converted German shotgun either! They are built on a MERKEL 20 ga SIZE RIFLE action. Merkel only makes two actions in the side be side configuration, and both are rifle actions. One sized like a 20 Ga, and the other sized like a 28 ga, but are true rifle actions. So it is the Merkel "SHOTGUNS" that are built on RIFLE actions, rather than the other way round. The non-sense that Merkel double rifles are built on shotgun actions has been spread around in gun magazines, and the public repeats this misconception. I tell you now, there is no problem with a double rifle built on a Merkel action, it will outlast you and your grand children, if cared for properly.

Rigby uses only the body of the action, and fits their own mono-blocked and Pac-nor barrels to the Merkel action. IMO, the best feature on California double rifle is the fact that it is built on a Merkel action body. Merkel builds all their actions to handle rifle pressures, and utilizes the same action to build their shotguns as well. These actions are sized like shotgun actions. With the largest being the 20 Ga size and the smallest being the 28 ga size, but are rifle actions.
......................

There is a reason for the 'rumor' that Rigby's uses Merkle shotguns to build their rifles. It's because it's true! I quote from the Nov/Dec '09 issue of SCI magazine. Page 153. Helsley writes..."It's German,for God's sake. And, it's a shotgun action." Do you think Helsley made this up out of the blue? They also use shotgun barrels as mono-blocs as was clearly pointed out in the "John Rigby re-opening for business" thread by 400NE. They are also using the top lever, triggers, and trigger guard. That's visible on the outside. If they are going to use all of that on the outside, then why not use the internal parts as well? Most of the ones I saw at SCI were obviously built using the 12ga. standing breech. If anyone doubts any of this, they have only to measure the length of the action flats and the side-wall thickness of the bar. The length of the bar is less than 1 7/8" and they use a rifle type bolster on the side of the bar to strengthen the juncture between the bar and the standing breech because the side walls are thin. These ARE shotgun actions. They are castings. And, they are strong. They are Not rifle actions. A bit of research shows that Miller/Rigby's use of these shotguns for rifles pre-dates Merkle using the same frame for double rifles.
You sir, seem to be a knowledgeable fellow. I've read quite a number of your posts. This only shows how many in the public have been misled.

DM,

You completely miss the point! Many actually "try" and make the effort to purchase domestically made goods. JOBS!!!!
To answer your questions;
The computer is a Mac; The tractors are a 5400 made probably in the early 90's (Georgia) and the other is a 7530 made in Illinois. BTW: I would say the JD employees people in Georgia to assemble those tractors; Now silly boy go do your little internet search and try and shoot holes in this story.
While you are at why don't you do a little more research and tell how many people JD employees at those facilities in Moline, Ill and Augusta Georgia? Also call those towns Chamber of Commerce and ask them how important those plants are to their community and perhaps the local impact if they were shut down and the plants moved off shore? Give us a report!
Doubtful you have ever been on a tractor!

There are two types of people in this world; Those that have a can do attitude and make a effort to make a difference in their lives and those of others and then there are those that always make excuses that they cannot achieve goals or make a difference and always complain about why they cannot get ahead.
If people would just try and buy 10% more of what they purchase from a domestic source that employees their counties citizens we would make a huge dent in our individual domestic issues both from employment and tax revenues.
It is unrealistic to be able to buy all your requirements domestically however if you do not realize the long term effects of your decisions, you most likely are going to have your grandchildren living with you! The service sector will not support our middle class.

quote:

Originally posted by DM:

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Let me ask some of you about WHO Cares!!!
How many of you own a Toyota or foreign owned vehicle; sending jobs and profits over seas?
How many of you shop at Walmart and buy 95% of their goods from China. How many of you actually look at what they buy to see where it is made?
Let me tell some of you self rightous bloggers a thing or two.
There is not one foreign car in my garage, I will NOT set foot in a Walmart, There is not one tool in my garage that says forged in China on it, not one bench grinder, drill press, table saw that does not say made in the USA. My lawn mower was made in the USA! I own Polaris 4 wheelers (not Hondas, Yamahas or Suzukis'). I own two John Deer tractors, one made in Illinois; the other in Augusta Georgia. The barb wire on the fences at my farm is domestically produced. Not one stick of furniture in my home was not made on shore in this country, not one fireplace screen. Not one picture frame says made in China; Not one candle or candle stick!
So you know the difference between you and me? I give our men and women a opportunity to have a good job after they get out of the service rather than having a minimum wage job at Walmart or Macdonalds.
It is one thing to walk the walk for our country ,it is another to spew rhetoric over the internet about how patriotic you are while driving your Nissan to Wally world.
I learned a very hard lesson many years ago when I bought a ACURA car. My father being a WWII veteran of the Pacific refused to ride in that car. It hit me very hard the expression on his face, the first time I drove it up to his home. He told me his heart felt sentiments about that acquisition . I sold that car the next day and remember his words as if they were yesterday. He instilled in me my buy American mind set and I have not veered since nor will I!
For those on a international level. I would expect the same of you for your country.
Do not come to me and say I do not care and if anyone in Dallas would like to discuss this with me face to face; just tell me when and where! Better yet I will be more than happy to meet you at my farm and put a 15 lb chain saw in your hands and show you how to do work the old American way while we have our discussion!
You guys can talk all the politics you want, but what DO YOU DO as an individual to help our county; politics aside.
Take a good look in the mirror!

Where was the PC made that you typed all of that on???

EXACTLY what models are your john deere's??? Deere doesn't ------> "build" a tractor in Georgia, they do a FINAL ASSEMBLY there, as the parts come from Japan, Mexico, India, and yes even China! Deere bought a tractor/car plant in China, and more and more of their parts are coming from it. Some of the new deere loaders are made completely in china!!!

DM

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
DM,

You completely miss the point! Many actually "try" and make the effort to purchase domestically made goods. JOBS!!!!
To answer your questions;
The computer is a Mac; The tractors are a 5400 made probably in the early 90's (Georgia) and the other is a 7530 made in Illinois. BTW: I would say the JD employees people in Georgia to assemble those tractors; Now silly boy go do your little internet search and try and shoot holes in this story.
While you are at why don't you do a little more research and tell how many people JD employees at those facilities in Moline, Ill and Augusta Georgia? Also call those towns Chamber of Commerce and ask them how important those plants are to their community and perhaps the local impact if they were shut down and the plants moved off shore? Give us a report!
Doubtful you have ever been on a tractor!

There are two types of people in this world; Those that have a can do attitude and make a effort to make a difference in their lives and those of others and then there are those that always make excuses that they cannot achieve goals or make a difference and always complain about why they cannot get ahead.
If people would just try and buy 10% more of what they purchase from a domestic source that employees their counties citizens we would make a huge dent in our individual domestic issues both from employment and tax revenues.
It is unrealistic to be able to buy all your requirements domestically however if you do not realize the long term effects of your decisions, you most likely are going to have your grandchildren living with you! The service sector will not support our middle class.

quote:

Originally posted by DM:

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Let me ask some of you about WHO Cares!!!
How many of you own a Toyota or foreign owned vehicle; sending jobs and profits over seas?
How many of you shop at Walmart and buy 95% of their goods from China. How many of you actually look at what they buy to see where it is made?
Let me tell some of you self rightous bloggers a thing or two.
There is not one foreign car in my garage, I will NOT set foot in a Walmart, There is not one tool in my garage that says forged in China on it, not one bench grinder, drill press, table saw that does not say made in the USA. My lawn mower was made in the USA! I own Polaris 4 wheelers (not Hondas, Yamahas or Suzukis'). I own two John Deer tractors, one made in Illinois; the other in Augusta Georgia. The barb wire on the fences at my farm is domestically produced. Not one stick of furniture in my home was not made on shore in this country, not one fireplace screen. Not one picture frame says made in China; Not one candle or candle stick!
So you know the difference between you and me? I give our men and women a opportunity to have a good job after they get out of the service rather than having a minimum wage job at Walmart or Macdonalds.
It is one thing to walk the walk for our country ,it is another to spew rhetoric over the internet about how patriotic you are while driving your Nissan to Wally world.
I learned a very hard lesson many years ago when I bought a ACURA car. My father being a WWII veteran of the Pacific refused to ride in that car. It hit me very hard the expression on his face, the first time I drove it up to his home. He told me his heart felt sentiments about that acquisition . I sold that car the next day and remember his words as if they were yesterday. He instilled in me my buy American mind set and I have not veered since nor will I!
For those on a international level. I would expect the same of you for your country.
Do not come to me and say I do not care and if anyone in Dallas would like to discuss this with me face to face; just tell me when and where! Better yet I will be more than happy to meet you at my farm and put a 15 lb chain saw in your hands and show you how to do work the old American way while we have our discussion!
You guys can talk all the politics you want, but what DO YOU DO as an individual to help our county; politics aside.
Take a good look in the mirror!

Where was the PC made that you typed all of that on???

EXACTLY what models are your john deere's??? Deere doesn't ------> "build" a tractor in Georgia, they do a FINAL ASSEMBLY there, as the parts come from Japan, Mexico, India, and yes even China! Deere bought a tractor/car plant in China, and more and more of their parts are coming from it. Some of the new deere loaders are made completely in china!!!

DM

As a full time farmer, i think i've got at least a few hours on tractors.

Many Honda's and Toyota's are made in the USA, doesn't that make them AT LEAST as good as that forein john deere you own, that is full of forein parts? Those deere's are just assembled in Georgia, not mfg'd there.

That was my point from the start, you aren't buying at much "American made" as you thought you were.

And NO i don't own a Honda or Toyota car/truck.

DM

Hey Minty!

Are you going to stop by the Paso Robles Rigby booth at SCI? Surely, you will not pass up such an opportunity to confront those guys?

That could be enough to get me out to the show!



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Hey Minty!

Are you going to stop by the Paso Robles Rigby booth at SCI? Surely, you will not pass up such an opportunity to confront those guys?

quote:

Originally posted by Tommyhawk:
There is a reason for the 'rumor' that Rigby's uses Merkle shotguns to build their rifles. It's because it's true! I quote from the Nov/Dec '09 issue of SCI magazine. Page 153. Helsley writes..."It's German,for God's sake. And, it's a shotgun action." Do you think Helsley made this up out of the blue? They also use shotgun barrels as mono-blocs as was clearly pointed out in the "John Rigby re-opening for business" thread by 400NE.

What I think is,YES! I think it is "made up" but I'm sure Helsley thinks that it is true,as you seemingly do as well, but my information says otherwise!

quote:

They are also using the top lever, triggers, and trigger guard. That's visible on the outside. If they are going to use all of that on the outside, then why not use the internal parts as well?

They do use the internal parts. I said in my post that the Rigby utilized the action body, but not the barrels. I meant by "ACTION BODY" the complete action body, from wood to fore-end hanger, to barrel flats. The action body is unit with everything from the top of the standing breech to the ends of top, and bottom tangs, including all internal parts. I never dreamed anyone who knew more than which end to point would not be aware of that.Not just the casting!

That is what I said, but it is evident you didn't read what I was saying, or I didn't make what I was saying clear! Probably a little of both I think, and most likely the latter.

quote:

Most of the ones I saw at SCI were obviously built using the 12ga. standing breech. If anyone doubts any of this, they have only to measure the length of the action flats and the side-wall thickness of the bar. The length of the bar is less than 1 7/8"

The length of the bar is not what you measured. the length of the bar from breech to bearing surface forend hanger bar is 2 and 24/32nds inches. The flat is just a few thousands under 2 inches to the center of henge pin from the breech face. That measures within thousands of an inch the same as my Westley Richards 500/450 and it wasn't made on a shotgun action I assure you. As far as I know only the Webley actions had long bars.

quote:

and they use a rifle type bolster on the side of the bar to strengthen the juncture between the bar and the standing breech because the side walls are thin. These ARE shotgun actions.

The bolsters are on all side-by-side Merkel actions, and has been since, I suspect long before you were born. The actions are almost exact copies of the Anson & Deeley actions of England, but made from stronger steel than most of the older action from the UK.

quote:

They are castings. And, they are strong. They are Not rifle actions. A bit of research shows that Miller/Rigby's use of these shotguns for rifles pre-dates Merkle using the same frame for double rifles.

........ and that frame is the 20ga size action. A 12 ga size action is not needed till you get to the 577NE. The 20 ga size is fine for up to 500NE.

Merkel's use of those actions, in verious forms, on double rifles predates Miller's grandfather's birth. The use of Merkel actions for rifles predates anything about the California Rigby, except Merkel's importing double rifles to the USA.

You seem to forget that Merkel was behind the iron curtain for 40-50 years, and building firearms before Miller's Grandfather was born and there products were made for only the eastern bloc during that 40-50 yrs there was no need to make double rifles because nobody in the eastern bloc was allowed to own rifles. However Merkel built rifles long before anyone here ever heard of Suhl, Germany. So shotguns were the bulk of their production only during the WALL.

Sir in today's case, the big difference between the shotgun action and rifle action is the heat treating of the steel. This is not the case with Merkel, however.Merkel actions are treated for pressures much higher than any shotgun would require.

Certainly, as I have stated many times, this is a cost saving thing on Merkels part. It is far easier to heat treat all actions the same so any one can be used for either shotgun or rifles, without having to have separate inventories for each. This allows a person who buys a shotgun to have rifle barrels letter installed on the same action with no changes in the action, bringing down line business from an earlier sale.

There is nothing wrong with castings. That is a science that has been perfected by the space program so that control is almost perfect today. Still I can understand why someone would be put off when told that the Rigby was built around a $2K Merkel action to build their $40K pimped up double rifle, and that is true they do, but when they are told that they just paid $40K for converted shotgun would really set their head spinning. Even though the same action is used simply doesn’t mean that the action is only a shotgun action. It is the standard A&D type used to make all side by side rifles, and shotguns from Merkel. It is rifle strong, which makes a Merkel shotgun almost indestructible, and any double rifle built on the action is OK in that part of its make-up. As I said the best part of the California Rigby is the Merkel action, and the action they use is that same action used for the Safari class rifle from Merkel. That is the 20 ga size platform. They are the 20 ga size and are heat treated for rifles use, whether in a shotgun or a rifle, SAME ACTION! A copy of an A&D hammerless action used in double rifles by most makers.

quote:

You sir, seem to be a knowledgeable fellow. I've read quite a number of your posts. This only shows how many in the public have been misled.

I'm sorry you feel that way, and if I have misled anyone it was not intentional, I assure you. I can tell you for sure if your post above is the be totally taken as fact in all respects it is a real toss-up as to which, of us, is the leading them down the yellow brick road here!

I'm not saying that I never make mistakes, I do, but unlike some here I don't claim to be an expert on anything, and infallible. I can guarantee you, if Miller had been chopping off shotgun barrels, and screwing in rifle barrels I would have heard from someplace more reliable that MAGAZINE! Some of the crap you read in magazines, regarding double rifles, is almost funny it is so ill-conceived.

Received my Feb/Mar volume of Grays Sporting Journal today.
There is an article on the new London Rigby and their rising bite action authored by none other than Mr Terry Wieland.
He takes a few swipes at the California Rigby owner in the context of the article.

On another note? Could it be that Mr Wieland may have a bit of an issue with Mr Boddington posting their second editions of dangerous game rifles at about the same time?
I can hardly believe it would bother the other as both text probably have something to offer.
Professional jealousy? Someone trying to drag CB through the dirt?
Sorry for the assumptions! I never Met Mr Wieland so ???

I continue to post this question on various threads, not receiving much if anything in the way of responses. So, I'll try again:

Would those who actually own and/or have hunted with a CA Rigby please tell us about their firearms, and their experiences with them? Theory is fine, practical experience something else entirely.

Thank you.

Does it seem as if the short pants, can't shoot
a 700, crowd, is trying to shaft each other. Ed

Personal Opinion: Weiland is a puke. So is Geoff Miller. I asked Miller if it was true that all of his DRs were made from German shotgun actions. He wouldn't answer me, just told me there were a lot of rumors floating around by persons trying to discredit him. I also asked him if he had a Navy Cross. That was when he asked me to leave his booth... But, he got all red in the face and blustery first. Made my day kids!

Rich

WTG, Rich!

LMAO Rich!

You've gotta mean streak in you! Talk about rubbing salt in the wound! hehehehe

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Personal Opinion: Weiland is a puke. So is Geoff Miller. I asked Miller if it was true that all of his DRs were made from German shotgun actions. He wouldn't answer me, just told me there were a lot of rumors floating around by persons trying to discredit him. I also asked him if he had a Navy Cross. That was when he asked me to leave his booth... But, he got all red in the face and blustery first. Made my day kids!

Rich

Well that just about sums it up.

Rich, good to meet you, hope we can do it again sometime over a drink with more time to chat.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Personal Opinion: Weiland is a puke. So is Geoff Miller. I asked Miller if it was true that all of his DRs were made from German shotgun actions. He wouldn't answer me, just told me there were a lot of rumors floating around by persons trying to discredit him. I also asked him if he had a Navy Cross. That was when he asked me to leave his booth... But, he got all red in the face and blustery first. Made my day kids!

Rich

Rich:

I've kind of been there and done that, but with a duce or two in my hand compared to your four aces. I certainly don't have the horsepower to have asked that question, but would have bought you a Oban to have been there to see you do it.

More power to you.

It was the icing on the cake! I amaze myself somedays...

Rich

I did it for all the boys and girls at AR!

Idaho, bless your heart. Apparently, in answer to my (much) earlier question, Terry Wieland did shoot your dog.

if it is possible to get everyone's hot blood cooled down, even temporarily, let me repeat my earnest plea:

Will someone who actually owns, and has used, a CA Rigby let us know his or her observations and opinions?

Please?

quote:

Originally posted by mauser93:
Idaho, bless your heart. Apparently, in answer to my (much) earlier question, Terry Wieland did shoot your dog.

if it is possible to get everyone's hot blood cooled down, even temporarily, let me repeat my earnest plea:

Will someone who actually owns, and has used, a CA Rigby let us know his or her observations and opinions?

Please?

Mauser

In all my time on AR, I can't remember anyone admitting to owning a Mexican Rigby so don't hold your breath.

I probably wouldn't ask Craig!

Rich

I have shot a California Rigby 500NE. The Rigby looks nice, shoots nice, is extremely accurate and has not failed its owner in any way that I know of in the last 10 years.

I used to own a Merkel 470 and we looked at both rifles side by side one day and concluded that the Rigby action looked like a Merkel.

I would have no problem owning or using a Ca Rigby - that is except they are priced out of my range and I have determined I am a bolt action guy.

BigB

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Personal Opinion: Weiland is a puke. So is Geoff Miller. I asked Miller if it was true that all of his DRs were made from German shotgun actions. He wouldn't answer me, just told me there were a lot of rumors floating around by persons trying to discredit him. I also asked him if he had a Navy Cross. That was when he asked me to leave his booth... But, he got all red in the face and blustery first. Made my day kids!

Rich

You are lucky the fat bastard didnt eat you for upsetting him. Geoff is a douchbag "par excellence" Notice how he is one of the only gunmakers that has signs that say "do not touch" on his rifles at the show.......He dosent want anyone to pick them up and have time to examine them without someone there to lie to you about the merkel SG action you are looking at......

I very much enjoyed meeting Idaho Sharpshooter and some of the other guys at SCI. It was a crazy show; I did drop by the Giraffe Bar, saw ISS and others, but my incredibly brutal boss and manager Ms. Donna insisted I return to my appointed place of duty (my booth)! I saw the person who I am certain is Ms. Mintyman a couple of times, but he wouldn't look me in the eye (surprise, surprise!), or ask his questions, so I'd just as soon not take further part in this discussion!
Wishing you all straight shooting and great hunting, Craig

Craig is such a gentleman...

Me, I got no problem calling dung dung.

Rich

Craig,

It was a pleasure to meet you as well. I was the young gentleman asking about Boddington on Lion and you were trying to find out who hunts the Lemco for me. Thanks for the help.

Brett

I was NOT impressed with Cal Rigby rifles for the money they were asking. WAAAYYYY over priced! The Holland's, Westley's, and other makes of assorted pre war English doubles at the Champlin and Westley boothes FAR outclassed the Cal Rigby's and in some cases cost MUCH less.

Brett