Hi. I know this has been discussed before but I'd like to see some ideas for peep sighting doubles. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Have a look at the one that Baily Bradshaw created in this thread.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...804/m/6391004461/p/4

I've seen two types over the years and they are very rare in vintage rifles. One has the peep sight mounted on the tang behind the top lever with the safety either farther back, to the side a bit, or on the side such as the Greener safety. Others have has the peep mounted to the top rib just ahead of the doll's head with the traditional leaf rear sight being removed or having all leaves folding.
Peep sights seem to be more accurate and get on target more quickly. I have often wondered why they were not more common in the vintage years. Countless thousands can be found on Winchesters, so why not doubles?
Cal
PS. Is this correct, Shootway, or did I speak too soon? Please correct me if I am in error.

Hi Mike and Cal. I am a big fan of peeps. I welcome any ideas. I have a good few pieces that would see use with the addition of such hardware. I prefer not to permanently alter my older rifles but would consider such on the newer ones. I have a Westley Richards with a spring loaded factory tang sight as you describe and it is wonderful.

Cal

What about those peeps inlet into the stock behind the tang. One particular maker did a
few like that, Fraser I think, as did H&H.

I agree, peep sights work well so am also surprised more were not made. Maybe younger
people didn't need them and by the time of
old age had stopped shooting.

If I needed one now, I'd get one fitted
to a rib as their are enough options out
there to do so, even with minor modification.

As my eyes started giving me problems I switched to peeps on my doubles. I love them and can get on target much faster than express sights. Here is one I made for my Heym double. This sight is non adjustable. It is made for the gun its on and load used in that gun.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I've seen two types over the years and they are very rare in vintage rifles. One has the peep sight mounted on the tang behind the top lever with the safety either farther back, to the side a bit, or on the side such as the Greener safety. Others have has the peep mounted to the top rib just ahead of the doll's head with the traditional leaf rear sight being removed or having all leaves folding.
Peep sights seem to be more accurate and get on target more quickly. I have often wondered why they were not more common in the vintage years. Countless thousands can be found on Winchesters, so why not doubles?
Cal
PS. Is this correct, Shootway, or did I speak too soon? Please correct me if I am in error.

IMO,one can shoot iron or open sights as accurate as anything it just takes alot of practice.I have not used a peep sight but I do not think it can be quickly adjusted for different distances.
I see people putting them on their rifles more and more.I think this could be because they do not have the neccesary experience to shoot with open sights or that there rifles were not built right.It could be because they cannot maintain a rifle properly so it can keep shooting where a good gun builder set it to shoot from the beginning.A well built rifle should have a good barrel and shoot dead on with all the leaf sights.

Good looking sight srose. For small caliber guns this could be altered with a dovetail for the aperture base and a vertical slot for elevation.

Hi shootaway. For my current eyesight I would have to place the rear sight too far forward requiring alteration to the rib and greatly reducing sight radius. Having used both open and peep sights for many years in hunting, competition and in the military it is apparent to me that the aperture sight is far more precise and can be very fast. Low light can be a problem but a removable aperture can often solve that. For the most part field peeps are set for one distance. You have to compensate for that. Some sights such as the Sako have a rotating aperture that allows for two different ranges. You could also use a flip up front sight like the old Beech with two different height posts. Ideally I would have a folding peep along with a folding rear express. Then I'd be set for distance and lighting. If the opens still work best for you, so be it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanker:
Hi shootaway. For my current eyesight I would have to place the rear sight too far forward requiring alteration to the rib and greatly reducing sight radius. Having used both open and peep sights for many years in hunting, competition and in the military it is apparent to me that the aperture sight is far more precise and can be very fast. Low light can be a problem but a removable aperture can often solve that. For the most part field peeps are set for one distance. You have to compensate for that. Some sights such as the Sako have a rotating aperture that allows for two different ranges. You could also use a flip up front sight like the old Beech with two different height posts. Ideally I would have a folding peep along with a folding rear express. Then I'd be set for distance and lighting. If the opens still work best for you, so be it.

Tanker,
whatever works best for you-if you have problems seeing the sights ... dont know why you need to see the rear sight clearly because it is the front bead that should be in focus and you could use a longer barrel to put it further

Sights are something I consider personal. What works well for one may not work for another. For example, I have shot competition smallbore for years. I used peep sights exclusively. However I have a problem with them... I have a astigmatism in my right eye and do not see a round hole! The view through a peep sight is an oval for me. This is fine in controled circumstances but not in the field. At least in my opinion. However if they work for you great.

Tanker,
Have you considered using a red dot sight on your rifle? There are several good ones available now. Burris Fastfire III, Trijicon RMR, Leupold Deltpoint, Doctor. There are also a few std mounts and I make QD mounts as well. Most people have no issues with a red dot and target acquisition is very fast.. However this in not for the traditionalist! But if it enables you to continue hunting and making clean kills then it is a good solution.
Thanks

I have a twin to the one Srose posted above. He had made an experimental one for his Sabatti and graciously gave it to me. It is wonderful and will add YEARS to my ability to see/use open sights! Thanks, Sam.
P.S. I hunt without the screw in aperature.

JCS271,

Glad you are enjoying your sight. I to hunt with the aperature removed. The aperature is just for load work.

Sam

Dirk: I have considered some of the smaller dot type devices you mentioned. I handled a Heym with I believe a Doctor on it that was unobtrusive and appeared to be practical. I could possibly see this application on the current guns but not the older pieces. I am somewhat the traditionalist with an uneasy feeling toward anything that relies on plastic or batteries. In low light the illuminated reticles can be an advantage so it may be worth pondering.
I prefer the sturdiness of iron sights. I have seen some that mounted on the top lever screw. I would think this to be a good idea if a new screw was used to mount the sight. For those guns that have had their ribs tapped, grooved, or claw mounted, it would seem something on the order of the one made by srose would be the ticket. That sight looks tough and elegant.

Tanker,
There are peep sights made to replace top lever screws. I have seen one in person and one that was posted on AR. I believe that both were custom made. I have to say that Sam's peep sight is extremely well made and looks very rugged. If I were looking for a peep that is the way I would go for sure. I believe that it would be a simple matter to attach Sam's sight onto any double.
You made a very good point about relying on plastic and batteries.. That is exactly why my red dot bases are all QD. You still have the irons in an emergency.
Thanks

Some examples

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=3#Post122311

http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...Number=114671&page=4

http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...Number=109037&page=2

http://forums.accuratereloadin...804/m/7351055231/p/1

Here's mine. Bailey made it.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...521026951#8521026951

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
Some examples

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=3#Post122311

http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...Number=114671&page=4

http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...Number=109037&page=2

http://forums.accuratereloadin...804/m/7351055231/p/1

That is a nice looking WR pictured in your first link.Not the best looking but still a nice looking rifle,IMO.
I wonder how it shoots?-That is much more important!

The below sight set-up looks unbeatable to me! (for those wanting an aperture sight)

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
That is a nice looking WR pictured in your first link.Not the best looking but still a nice looking rifle,IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
The below sight set-up looks unbeatable to me! (for those wanting an aperture sight)

Hi,

is this made by a gun smith or is it possible to buy this sight somewhere ?

By the way - is this mounted on a Merkel ? I am asking since I am looking at a Krieghoff or a Merkel, but have not decided yet.

Appreciate your answer DR

Shootaway... what bullshit you write, not sure if you got the sarcasm in Calpapas post or not..just as bad either way.. As usual, you are jabbering off without experience.. in this case with peep/ghost ring sights, even stating you have no experience with them, and then trashing off uninformed opinions as usual.

They can made adjustable as every other type of rear sight (had one made by recnagel that had adjustments). For most people they are faster than regular express sights and are made so you more easily focus on the front sight (therefor called "ghost ring" sights). Recnagel has sights that fit Merkel base, nothing that fits the one on K-Guns (I modified one to fit, but was a lot of work).

I have no clue why they are not commonly found on vintage doubles. Perhaps traditionalism as usual?

And again Shootaway... not the best looking WR? You also hava a lot of experience with those too???

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Shootaway... what bullshit you write, not sure if you got the sarcasm in Calpapas post or not..just as bad either way.. As usual, you are jabbering off without experience.. in this case with peep/ghost ring sights, even stating you have no experience with them, and then trashing off uninformed opinions as usual.

They can made adjustable as every other type of rear sight (had one made by recnagel that had adjustments). For most people they are faster than regular express sights and are made so you more easily focus on the front sight (therefor called "ghost ring" sights). Recnagel has sights that fit Merkel base, nothing that fits the one on K-Guns (I modified one to fit, but was a lot of work).

I have no clue why they are not commonly found on vintage doubles. Perhaps traditionalism as usual?

And again Shootaway... not the best looking WR? You also hava a lot of experience with those too???

I am just not a peep shooter kinda guy!

Hi Norwegian,

That is ledvm's rifle. He reported
that below is the peep sight's maker.
{ Link: B. Bradshaw }

That flip up peep is nice but I like one that can't be changed. What happens when the chips are down and you find out your peep is down?

You shoot instinctively.

or flip up your peep !

Yowee! A down peep when you need it most could be disastrous or at least embarrassing. Seriously though, you could use a fixed version. In most of my cases the rifles will be retro fitted. There will usually be existing back sights that will either need to be replaced with a filler, fold flat blades, or just ignored if not too high. I may need to replace front sights in order for the peep to clear existing back sights. The end result needs to be better sighting. With all sights folding there is the advantage of immediate options. Of course that also means immediate problems when "Murphy" shows up.

quote:

That flip up peep is nice but I like one that can't be changed. What happens when the chips are down and you find out your peep is down?

You and I think alike.

If you notice, there is an open rear besides the flipup.
Aim before pulling trigger is best......

Which is also a flip-up I believe.

A peep won't work if you leave the express sights on. If they flip down that's OK. I'd still want a lock of some kind to be sure peep sight stayed up.

quote:

Originally posted by Lanny from NY:
If you notice, there is an open rear besides the flipup.
Aim before pulling trigger is best......

If your DR fits you, you should be able to throw it up and have it on target without aiming.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
That flip up peep is nice but I like one that can't be changed. What happens when the chips are down and you find out your peep is down?

Sam, I totally agree. I can picture that rather wimpy (no offense intended) peep getting snagged in the mopane (sp?) scrub/bush. The one which you have created is much more substantial and will stand up to the unexpected. Well done!

For dangerous game rifles a fixed peep would be the way to go. It would be nice if it were easily lockable or removable. Most of the rifles that I have encountered with all folding sights were of lessor calibers. The Westley Richards that "mouse93" posted was I believe a .303.
In my original late '20s early '30s (it's not dated) WR catalog, peep sights are offered at extra cost with Lyman being mentioned as "best known." It is also stated that;
"We fit any pattern that the sportsman may prefer, but on Double Barrel Rifles they have to be fitted on the grip or hand of the stock, and many sportsmen find them unsightly, and they frequently prevent an easy grip of the stock."
They then go on within the same section on "PEEP SIGHTS"(the only option so capitalized) to extoll their great efforts expended in the manufacture of accurate rifles.
Seems a bit odd to me. WR installed other unobtrusive, effective peep sights that were on the tang or the breech but didn't mention that option. Peeps are shown on many bolt guns and prices are listed prominently. It may be that management viewed the option as untraditional on doubles or was it something else? From what I read between the lines, I get the impression that WR didn't encourage peeps for a reason. It could be they felt the customer ordering the peep might expect too much. Many peep users would no doubt have match experience. This would have been with target single shots and bolt guns. It would have been quite costly to regulate to those standards. Just surmising.

Pretty fair number of experienced DR hunters are very pleased with the old-style, very plain Williams ghost ring. It is, I believe, still manufactured. Match with square front sight...the front from the original H&K 91 May be the best ever.

Interesting, valuable topic. Thanks to the OPERATING for posting.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
A peep won't work if you leave the express sights on. If they flip down that's OK. I'd still want a lock of some kind to be sure peep sight stayed up.

Not necessarily accurate. There are some double rifles that are so well designed that one can line up both the ghost ring and the leaf sights at the same time without changing the point of aim. It takes talent, but it can be done.

Old English with fold up peeps behind the tang / safety left the leaf sights on.

quote:

Old English with fold up peeps behind the tang / safety left the leaf sights on

George Hoenig also puts a tang peep on some of his rifles along with the blade. It will 'crisp' up the sight picture a bit.

mdstewart, I didn't say it couldn't be done I said it dosen't work. No reason to have a peep and use express sights thru it. Use one or the other not both at same time. What's the purpose?

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
mdstewart, I didn't say it couldn't be done I said it dosen't work. No reason to have a peep and use express sights thru it. Use one or the other not both at same time. What's the purpose?

I don't have an answer yet. However, I should be receiving a Bradshaw 9.3x74 by Monday that will have both leaf sights and a ghost ring. I'll play around with them a bit and let you know if I think there's a potential advantage of an improved sight picture. You may be correct.

Mike