The Accurate Reloading Forums
My Searcy 500NE range report-Shootaway saves the day!
23 February 2014, 05:19
npd345My Searcy 500NE range report-Shootaway saves the day!
All kidding aside George, that last target was pretty impressive
shane
23 February 2014, 05:33
shootawayThanks Shane.
23 February 2014, 06:26
cal pappasquote:
I read somewhere, I'll try and find the link, that if you have thermometers in your house that read in C. you need to load with the metric press regardless of caliber.
You may think Frostbit is joking, but until I learned this my reloading for doubles was not that productive. Now that I have changed to a metric press (as my thermometer does read in C) all has smoothed out, more game is falling, accuracy has improved, and the quality of my doubles has risen.
Cal
_______________________________
Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.comwww.CalPappas.blogspot.com1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
23 February 2014, 06:54
MJinesCal, how do you address the right barrel/right twist, left barrel/left twist issue? Did you just swap out the finnegan pin?
Mike
23 February 2014, 07:36
BayouBobHey guys; does that metric/inch thing get more complicated if you are loading for a Russian rifle, or heaven forbid, a French rifle or does it just apply if you take an American rifle across the border for underage sex?
NRA Endowment Member
DRSS
23 February 2014, 07:52
cal pappasquote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Cal, how do you address the right barrel/right twist, left barrel/left twist issue? Did you just swap out the finnegan pin?
No, Mike. Where did you learn about double rifles? If you reverse the rifling it takes care of the problem. By that I mean measure the rifling twist from front to back rather than back to front. Works every time.
Cal
PS. However, my finnegan pin is a Westley single pin rather than the traditional double pin. John Taylor wrote of this often--either if fine, just keep it the same to avoid confusion.
_______________________________
Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.comwww.CalPappas.blogspot.com1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
23 February 2014, 08:15
MJinesI think for my hunt in June I am going to have JJ make me a replacement finnegan pin. You have one of those break on you while you are on safari and the rifle is toast until you get home.
Mike
23 February 2014, 08:41
a.tinkererI had mine plated then ground to a taper pattern Finnegan pin.
Works on all five double rifles this way - even the two pinfire rifles.
Elmer Keith had suggested this to my dad in the early 70's at a rendezvous.
_________________________________
Self appointed Colonel, DRSS
23 February 2014, 08:50
Todd Williamsquote:
Originally posted by npd345:
I wanna be sure I am reloading correctly here in the good old USA;
I am loading for a 22/6mm Ackley Improved. So I have a metric case and standard bullet.
Should I use a metric press for resizing, since it a metric designated case and the standard press for seating the bullet.....since I am in the USA....but if in Canada....would I use the metric press to seat the bullet and a standard press to resize?
George can you help me with this I don't think these other guys have a clue....
quote:
Originally posted by AK_Stick:
Well the results speak for themselves, you've obviously gotten yourself a metric press.
If you buy a standard press, your bullets would come out concentric to the bore, and with the bases perfectly perpendicular to the cartridge base. That away as long as your rifle is on face, everything would be perfect.
Your rifle is on face isn't it?
George should know that one. If reloading in Canada, you have to use a metric press, regardless of whether or not your caliber is designated as standard! You just can't use a .510 press in Canada. Won't work. Just like you can't use a 9.3 press in the USA ... you have to use .366! Surely George knows this!

23 February 2014, 09:03
Todd Williamsquote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Cal, how do you address the right barrel/right twist, left barrel/left twist issue? Did you just swap out the finnegan pin?
No, Mike. Where did you learn about double rifles? If you reverse the rifling it takes care of the problem. By that I mean measure the rifling twist from front to back rather than back to front. Works every time.
Cal
PS. However, my finnegan pin is a Westley single pin rather than the traditional double pin. John Taylor wrote of this often--either if fine, just keep it the same to avoid confusion.
I'm not so sure about the counter rotating rifling guys. That's usually reserved for DR beginners to help them sort out centrifugal regulation about the Y Axis. George would be well advanced beyond that and now ready to deal with the complexities of critical rotational forces of the right barrel, since that one is fired much more often than the left, assuming he knows to pull the front trigger first - always! That's one of the primary reasons firing the back trigger first is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Excess wear on the non critical barrel can cause all sorts of issues such as changing the point of impact with a change in point of aim! NOT GOOD! NOT GOOD at all!! Come to think of it though, this may be the root cause of the issue George had with the rifle from the start. I wonder if he inquired with Butch as to whether the rifle was built with counter rotating rifling or if Butch just assumed, rightly so, that George could handle critical rotational rifling? Hmmmm ... something to think about for sure! And to think, this COULD have avoided the entire sight filing, sight lock-tighting fiasco from the get go! Such a simple question to have asked before breaking out the files.

23 February 2014, 10:04
surestrikequote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Cal, how do you address the right barrel/right twist, left barrel/left twist issue? Did you just swap out the finnegan pin?
No, Mike. Where did you learn about double rifles? If you reverse the rifling it takes care of the problem. By that I mean measure the rifling twist from front to back rather than back to front. Works every time.
Cal
PS. However, my finnegan pin is a Westley single pin rather than the traditional double pin. John Taylor wrote of this often--either if fine, just keep it the same to avoid confusion.
I'm not so sure about the counter rotating rifling guys. That's usually reserved for DR beginners to help them sort out centrifugal regulation about the Y Axis. George would be well advanced beyond that and now ready to deal with the complexities of critical rotational forces of the right barrel, since that one is fired much more often than the left, assuming he knows to pull the front trigger first - always! That's one of the primary reasons firing the back trigger first is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Excess wear on the non critical barrel can cause all sorts of issues such as changing the point of impact with a change in point of aim! NOT GOOD! NOT GOOD at all!! Come to think of it though, this may be the root cause of the issue George had with the rifle from the start. I wonder if he inquired with Butch as to whether the rifle was built with counter rotating rifling or if Butch just assumed, rightly so, that George could handle critical rotational rifling? Hmmmm ... something to think about for sure! And to think, this COULD have avoided the entire sight filing, sight lock-tighting fiasco from the get go! Such a simple question to have asked before breaking out the files.
Todd,
Are you aware of the issue with Y axis misalignment in regards to isogonic force and hyper sonic compressor stall causing point of aim shift and point of impact irregularity right? This is a rare yet serious condition also caused by using the non critical barrel to often. But I thought both barrels were critical if they had counter rotating rifling? I guess I've got a lot to learn! What if the both counter rotate to the outside of the Y axis?
This would all be so simple if he would just use a metric press!!!
23 February 2014, 17:47
Todd Williamsquote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Cal, how do you address the right barrel/right twist, left barrel/left twist issue? Did you just swap out the finnegan pin?
No, Mike. Where did you learn about double rifles? If you reverse the rifling it takes care of the problem. By that I mean measure the rifling twist from front to back rather than back to front. Works every time.
Cal
PS. However, my finnegan pin is a Westley single pin rather than the traditional double pin. John Taylor wrote of this often--either if fine, just keep it the same to avoid confusion.
I'm not so sure about the counter rotating rifling guys. That's usually reserved for DR beginners to help them sort out centrifugal regulation about the Y Axis. George would be well advanced beyond that and now ready to deal with the complexities of critical rotational forces of the right barrel, since that one is fired much more often than the left, assuming he knows to pull the front trigger first - always! That's one of the primary reasons firing the back trigger first is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Excess wear on the non critical barrel can cause all sorts of issues such as changing the point of impact with a change in point of aim! NOT GOOD! NOT GOOD at all!! Come to think of it though, this may be the root cause of the issue George had with the rifle from the start. I wonder if he inquired with Butch as to whether the rifle was built with counter rotating rifling or if Butch just assumed, rightly so, that George could handle critical rotational rifling? Hmmmm ... something to think about for sure! And to think, this COULD have avoided the entire sight filing, sight lock-tighting fiasco from the get go! Such a simple question to have asked before breaking out the files.
Todd,
Are you aware of the issue with Y axis misalignment in regards to isogonic force and hyper sonic compressor stall causing point of aim shift and point of impact irregularity right? This is a rare yet serious condition also caused by using the non critical barrel to often. But I thought both barrels were critical if they had counter rotating rifling? I guess I've got a lot to learn! What if the both counter rotate to the outside of the Y axis?
This would all be so simple if he would just use a metric press!!!
No man, think Cessna 310 with that right engine being critical vs. Piper Seneca with counter rotating props, or in reality, counter rotating engines! Now of course, if the barrels were installed opposite to specs, you would indeed have twin critical rifling. I wonder if George checked for this prior to breaking out the files?
As to the issue of Y axis misalignment in regards to isogonic force and hyper sonic compressor stall and it's effects ... well of course I'm aware of that! Are you kidding? Only an idiot would venture into double rifles without a firm understanding of same! Geeeshh!

23 February 2014, 20:12
shootaway[URL=
]loctite[/URL]
A little insurance provided by using a little black max loctite just on the edge.I learned this from firing my big bores.Big bore recoil will knock sights around.This is the only way POI will stay unless you have those sights where you have to knock them in and there is a tight fit.
23 February 2014, 21:48
BayouBobWhen you adopt a puppy they inspect you to see if you are capable of providing it a proper home. Shouldn't that apply to Double Rifles?
NRA Endowment Member
DRSS
23 February 2014, 21:51
Mike BrooksJust drill and tap out for a bigger set/retaining screw. Say an inch and a half fine thread making sure that you continue using the handy tap handles that you already have. Ditch the glue. It's fugly.
NRA Life
ASSRA Life
DRSS
Today's Quote:
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
23 February 2014, 22:04
cal pappasDamn, this will make ten pages.
C
_______________________________
Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.comwww.CalPappas.blogspot.com1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
23 February 2014, 22:30
Matt MooreAll of you so called "experts" really make me mad when you talk about reverse rifle twists, metric presses, etc. It is components baby! That is where the accuracy is.
No one talked about the new metric primers and the new medium cut quick release powders that will be released in the 3rd quarter of 2014.
Matt
23 February 2014, 22:41
jwmThis thread is a fascinating exploration of the intricacies of rifling in doubles. I'm learning a lot. I've never totally understood isogonic force until now.
I've seen lots of Shootaway's target pictures. What makes you all think that he is using rifled barrels?
23 February 2014, 22:55
cjfosterquote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
[URL=
]loctite[/URL]
A little insurance provided by using a little black max loctite just on the edge.I learned this from firing my big bores.Big bore recoil will knock sights around.This is the only way POI will stay unless you have those sights where you have to knock them in and there is a tight fit.
Why not weld it on? It will damn sure not move then!
23 February 2014, 23:01
MJinesSome people miss their true calling in life. I am convinced God intended for George to be a custom gunsmith. You simply cannot learn how to use Super Glue and a bastard file like that, it is an innate ability. I am just thankful he shares his work with us.
Mike
23 February 2014, 23:24
Jefffivequote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Some people miss their true calling in life. I am convinced God intended for George to be a custom gunsmith. You simply cannot learn how to use Super Glue and a bastard file like that, it is an innate ability. I am just thankful he shares his work with us.
So, you ready to commission a custom Shootaway Special PH Grade double?
"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
24 February 2014, 00:04
MJinesquote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Some people miss their true calling in life. I am convinced God intended for George to be a custom gunsmith. You simply cannot learn how to use Super Glue and a bastard file like that, it is an innate ability. I am just thankful he shares his work with us.
So, you ready to commission a custom Shootaway Special PH Grade double?
No, but I think an good idea for one of the cable channels would be a new reality television show, Pimp My Peashooter. The story about a savant gunsmith in Canada that takes nice rifles and makes them "nicer" with some creative refinements on the work bench.
Mike
24 February 2014, 00:22
Safari JamesSilly me, I really thought you guys were picking on George until I saw the picture of the glue on the sight. A whole different level of consciousness to think that way and then take that exact action. Stunning.
Safari James
USMC
DRSS
24 February 2014, 00:36
460 wby shooterAgain all I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!

24 February 2014, 00:55
Todd WilliamsI just can't figure out WHY George has decided to cement his sight into place. Based on the targets he posted, obviously a bit more work with the files is in order! Newsflash! Extra, Extra, Extra ... It STILL ins't right!
Hey, new name for shootyourcow? ... Can'tGetRight?

24 February 2014, 01:09
Matt MooreIs no one else disturbed that Shoot a whey is taking pictures of his rifle partially under the covers in his bed? I would rather see photos of the rifle with cardboard in the background than sheets. Do you clean the rifle in bed as well George?
I think the next topic will be " My Precious" a retrospective of an accident that took place while hundreds watched an innocent rifle being butchered and did nothing.
Matt
24 February 2014, 01:21
RIPThis is too funny!

Thanks to all the comedians!

shootawhey ... That is brilliant!

I am stealing that joke and adding the emoticons whenever I refer to the "misanthropic member from Montreal,"

shootawhey

, thanks.
24 February 2014, 01:37
shootawayI am working a 17 hr three day shift to replace the fellow who replaced me so I could go to Vegas so I dont have that much energy to speak on the subject of rags for wiping.I will say that a pillow covering makes a good quality rag.
24 February 2014, 02:14
boom stickquote:
Originally posted by BayouBob:
When you adopt a puppy they inspect you to see if you are capable of providing it a proper home. Shouldn't that apply to Double Rifles?
I think there is much merit to this idea. Want a HH Royal Double? Fill out adoption papers, receive manditory education and training and when passed pay the fees. I would love to see the teachings on proper use of monocles and pith helmets not to mention the chapters on scotch and cigars on Safari.
24 February 2014, 02:58
Seasons44This is like a train wreck, you just have to look

All joking aside, and I may regret asking this question but here it is...
Why are you constantly cleaning your barrels, you realize some guns, shoot better with a fouled bore because it fills in any minor imperfections?
This just might be the fix to tighten your groups up.
Simply, Elegant but always approachable
24 February 2014, 03:11
shootawayThe rifle is extremely accurate with one barrel shooting into the same hole and another very close.The individual groups are just a couple of inches apart at 50yds which is very good and means they probably wont cross at 100yds.
On the subject of fouling,IMO no barrel shoots better when it is fouled.Just make sure all the lubrication is removed by rubbing the bore dry.
I wish I had a couple of more doubles in lighter chamberings as they are really fun and exciting.
24 February 2014, 03:46
SkylineAhhh! This thread is painful to read.

______________________________________________
The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift.
24 February 2014, 04:09
BayouBobThen why do match shooters take a "fouling shot?"
NRA Endowment Member
DRSS
24 February 2014, 04:19
shootawaybecause they dont know as much as me
24 February 2014, 04:25
Frostbitquote:
Originally posted by BayouBob:
Then why do match shooters take a "fouling shot?"
Because of the isooptic convergence continuum theory you silly man.
24 February 2014, 04:26
DoubleDonIs he a whack job or what?? Holy smokes!!

Deo Vindice,
Don
Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
24 February 2014, 04:30
Dutch44Jines, why do you insult Savants?
Dutch
24 February 2014, 04:37
drhall762It has reached 10 pages.
Dave
In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society!
Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you.
24 February 2014, 04:40
MJinesquote:
Originally posted by Dutch44:
Jines, why do you insult Savants?
Dutch
Perhaps I should have used pseudo-savant.
From Merriam Webster [as edited by me to reflect pseudo status]
Savant: a person who does not have normal intelligence but who [believes he] has very unusual mental abilities that other people do not have
Mike
24 February 2014, 05:19
BayouBobI hate the little tiny avatar photos but it looks like shootaway is posing with road kill in his.
NRA Endowment Member
DRSS