The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Any interest in a HEYM 577 2 & 3/4"?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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We've been tossing around the idea of building a few 577 2 & 3/4 rifles on our new larger boxlock frame.  The rifle would finish up too light for full-bore 3" loads, but it would make a nice 2 & 3/4. What do you guys think? Any market for the 2 & 3/4? | ||
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I love the idea...I would be in the market-- what would it be priced at...like the standard 88 and 88ph?? Ed DRSS Member | |||
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Chris, what kind of ballistics would you get with a 577 2 3/4"? I guess it would be a handload-only proposition. Sounds interesting. | |||
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IIRC, it's a 650gr at 1900. I think Kynoch still loads it... let me check. | |||
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Yes, Kynoch loads it. Energy is a bit less than 500 NE at about 5K ft/lbs. It would b more of a novelty, you think? | |||
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Somewhat subjective about too light but much easier to add weight than to take off. Better to make a lighter 3" and make something different. People complain about the weight carrying all day so this may be the alternative or just load down to lower levels. Perhaps call it the lighter PH model with no frills made to be carried a lot and not by a gun bearer. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Yes, that's the old NFB "Jungle" load. Might be kind of fun, in a limited production offering. | |||
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Chris, I would first ask what is your opinion of "too light for a full 3" version"? My VC 577NE is 12.5 lbs and it could easily go another pound less and be just fine. It came in at 14lbs when purchased but I took out the 1.5lbs of weight. I really didn't notice any appreciable increase in recoil. Several others here expressed the same sentiments. So, what would it finish out at, weight wise if you were to build it in a 3" version? | |||
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Chris, right now, Heym rifles go to 500 NE in the PH and Safari boxlocks, in the $17,000-$23,000 price range. If one has interest in a 577 (3"), Heym's only offering jumps into the Jumbo action sidelock at $40,000+. I think a PH and Safari 577 on a bigger boxlock would make more market sense than introducing another caliber that isn't even as strong as the 500 NE. | |||
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How about making it into not only a 577 but a 577/500 that Teddy and others loved so much. It might be a more suited weight for that. Maybe as a second barrel set? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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+1 on what Biebs said. It seems like a solution without a problem to me. I don't see any advantage in giving up my 500 3" for a 577 2 3/4"? Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Chris, Build a 11 to 11.5 lb 577 3 inch with 26 inch barrels on the new frame. This would be perfect. Sam | |||
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The 577 I shot was a tropical turned I to a 3" and I loved it. Question... At what PSI can the 2 3/4" match the 3"? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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We can do that today, and we've actually discussed it in-house. I (personally) would find the recoil to be abusive. If you want a boxlock in 577 3", you can have it... I would expect a small up-charge for the special ribs that would have to be made. | |||
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Chris, from my post above, I don't think it would be abusive at all. Sam was one of the fellows I was speaking of when discussing a desire for a lighter 577 than 12.5lbs. 12.5 is no problem at all. Sam and I have spoken about this before in that the makers don't see to understand that these are hunting rifles, not novelties! Considering how much more the rifle is carried than fired, I think an 11.5 lbs 577NE would be spot on! | |||
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A Heym 577 3" boxlock would be a GREAT addition to the line. | |||
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Is there a deposit coming with that Jon?  Thanks for the comments, Todd. I understand the prefrence for lighter rifles. One thing that makes HEYM unique is that we offer 5 different frame sizes for double rifles. I don't know of any other maker that offers that many. This enables us to accommodate just about any weight/caliber request that a customer has. We regularly make special barrel contours, lengths and special ribs for specific weight/caliber requests. No other maker in our price range does that either. An 11.5 lb 577 is personally not for me, but we can certainly build them. And it could be done at a reasonable price too. I will get an exact weight and pricing together to post. | |||
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Measure me up in Dallas :-) | |||
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NewGuy what is the standard rate of twist for the 577 2&3/4 with a 650 gr bullet? ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I have an old Greener double that started life as a 2 3/4 gun. It weighs 11.5lbs. The chambers were lengthen at some point in it's life. TSA in Houston took my ammo because " it to big" " this ain't no small arm ammunition" . Any way, wound up buying some ancient Kynock 3 inch ammo in Johannesburg and hunted with it... Hang fires and all! The short story is that I was able to harvest 3 pac Elephant and 2 buffalo cows and the 577 3 inch is wonderfully effective. An 11 pound gun is nice to hunt with but IMHO. it is a unbearable, nasty, two fisted, purple, double distilled, snot slinging son of a bitch to shoot.  The last buffalo I shot went right down but I had shot her at about 80 yards in cold blood sitting, off of sticks and I had had lots of time to think about it before pulling the trigger and since the ammo was hang firing you would feel the sear slip hear the click as the hammer fell and then grit your teeth and hang on to keep the sights lined up for that faction of a second before the WHAM! We ran up to the buffalo and may ph said give her another. I handed him the gun and said here you do it. He took the it, threw it up and hammered her between the shoulder blades. when he shot he turned 90 degrees and stood there for a minute. Then he slowly turned back to face me and handed me the rifle. His thumb had hit him in the nose so hard he had snot and tears running down his face. After that he quit referring to it as that nice old rifle and started using very colorful terms which I won't bore you with. Any way I think an 11 lbs 2 3/4 in 577 is a great idea. If you are going to make it in 3" though drop it down to 10.5lbs and shoot some full bore ammo that hang fires every once in a while. That will be a real adventure  If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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Well you guys can blame me for this.  I am the one that suggested to Chris that we make a 577 2 3/4" on the new 500 frame. My thoughts were, baised on the old African hunting books and old India hunting books I have read that it would make a great cape buff, and lion gun. It would have about the same energy and recoil of a 500 but a bigger and heavier bullet. Its original ballistics consisted of 90gr of Cordite with a 650gr bullet at 1950fps for 5500ftlbs, or a 750gr bullet at 1800fps for 5400ftlbs., in 28" barrels. I think these ballistics would work for elephants as well, especially with FP bullets like the North Fork or Cutting Edge Bullets. It would also be fun to use my 75% rule and shoot deer and pigs with it. Say a 525 to 550 gr bullet at 1650 to 1700fps [basically 577 BPE, Black Powder Express ballistics], for some good off season practice. Also I have shot a few 577 3" doubles and I want no part of a 577 3" under 13 pounds. I think a 10lb 470 is too light... I prefer it at 11 lbs. My 450 No2 has 28" barrels and weighs over 11.5 lbs, counting the ammo in the buttstock. I find it perfect in every way. It has mild recoil and I can shoot it like a 22LR. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Thanks for sharing,that was a great post  DRSS | |||
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I was affraid you'd say that! I'll talk to you in Dallas about it. As far as recoil goes I don't think an 11 lb 577 is too bad. You don't have to shoot full power loads for practice. I have a 450 grain load I shoot that is like shooting a 410 shotgun. Sam | |||
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Sam, we'll tag-team him at the DSC, if we can get someone to preoccupy Tony :-) | |||
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Guess my 13 pound 600NE and the (formerly mine) 12 pound 600OK aren't going to be lonely lightweight boomers too much longer.  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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If someone wants to order one fine, but I sure wouldn't have them in stock. It's like a nitro for black gun. Not enough for elephant. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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But Elephants are one animal on this planet and not everyone hunts them. I've seen what Marrakai's 577 Greener can do on Scrub Bulls and Big Buffalo and a few things smaller than that and it certainly packs a punch. And Marrakai is not a "speed freak" so imaging it could go a bit more if needed. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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.....or get a double in a suitable calibre....of which there are many.....for the same price that can do anything including elephant instead of pushing the envelope. Also resale will be less than spectacular. Plan on taking a bath if you ever try to sell it! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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The ol´Baker load of 6½dram black + a 648grain hardned solid lead bullet killed Elephants. I also believe Arthur Neumann used a .577Express and disregarded the 10bore because of recoil. He killed elephants. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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yep I'll bet that 650 grain woodliegh solid would just bounce off an Elephant's hide. Just like a 458 bullet at 1950 does  I have a little experience with elephants and I would not hesitate to use it, not for a moment.I think the cool and usable factor is off the charts. It is a 577. You can carry it all day. You can get a quick second (aimed) shot off with it and it is a "blow all 4 hub caps of at once" capable cartridge for most game on the planet. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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A long read through the terminal performance thread could be of some use here. Is there any harm in making both 2 3/4" and 3" on the same frame? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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As well as .30-06 or 7x57.........at the end of the day my comments were more of A. If I owned a business I wouldn't carry them in stock because I can't see a strong demand and B. I really see a BIG problem with resale for anyone who buys one and tries to sell it later. It will appeal to a small group and that's it. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Might be good in a short barrel version for the "pucker brush" as I read someone describe it. Chasing Bengal tigers in India gun in a lighter format is interesting to me at least but I still don't see why both 2 3/4" and 3"offerings could not be had. With the lighter action how much shorter can the barrels be and have a good balance? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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How about one in .577 Snider with 16" barrels so it fits better in my howdah? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Any interest in a HEYM 577 2 & 3/4"?
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