Those that have or had both, what was your experience like with them? Was the 450-400 more accurate if so how much more?

Neither is more accurate than the other. I think most folks shoot the .400 better due to less recoil.
Cal

Cal is dead on. Most folks shoot a lower recoil firearm better. I have had both and the accurate potential was put in by the manufacture the on how well they regulated the rifles. It will depend on if you will shoot your double enough to get proficient with the platform. Either caliber will take anything that walks on the planet.

Accuracy isn't dependent on caliber...shootaway should know this. For actual dangerous game hunting I would choose the .450ne, the weight of the rifle and recoil are at the limits of what I can comfortably control. Obviously I've shot larger, but shooting and controlling are different.

For anything less than DG I prefer the 450-400 package.

There are calibers that are inherently more accurate than others I am sure nearly everyone will agree.I can think of the benefits of owning each.I would rather go hunting buff and elephant or just be in the bush with a 450.On the other hand the 450-400 would be great for shooting plains game with open sights and for shooting at targets from time to time.

Since you and I have a 500 on the high end. I would choose the 450/400 to round out the battery. Slap a good scope with quick detach claw mounts on a solid 450/400. You will have an excellent 150 yard large plains game buffalo rifle.

When DG or thick stuff is all that is on your mind, you have the 500.

If I get a second double, years from now my wife says, it will be a 375FLM so set up.

Cal has owned, shot, published about doubles longer than I have been alive.

Mr Little builds rifles for a leaving. His work building accurate double rifles are documented on this forum. You asked a question a real exper answered. Why ask the question and piss in everyone's face?

If you do not want an answer do not ask the question. These are large bore, rimmed cartidges. Not the latest super shoulder, super short and fat target rounds designed to ring every bit of theoretical accuracy from case design.

My 500NE is shooting fine.I am so impressed by it that I would like another however I am getting older and therefore want to go a step down in recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
There are calibers that are inherently more accurate than others I am sure nearly everyone will agree.I can think of the benefits of owning each.I would rather go hunting buff and elephant or just be in the bush with a 450.On the other hand the 450-400 would be great for shooting plains game with open sights and for shooting at targets from time to time.

We are talking about open sighted large bore double rifles not tactical long range rigs.

The 450 NE is THE classic African hunting double.

I have both - a Verney- Carron in .450 3 ¼" NE, and a Krieghoff 450/400 3" NE. I also have a Searcy .470NE. All are very accurate, and I find no accuracy differences among them. I probably practice with the 450/400 more due to the low recoil, but I find the .450 easy on the shoulder as well, especially when compared to the 470. For hunting buffalo these days, I am more likely to carry the Krieghoff due to the inherent safety of the rifle's cocking system. If I was hunting elephant, I would take the 450 or 470.

I have both; they are equally accurate, but the 400 is much easier to shoot, (if you want tiny pairs), as it has a scope and weighs a ton, so has very little recoil. My Searcy 450 has no scope, although it is milled for one, a scope does not belong on a 450. It, too, is regulated very tightly.
What was your question? They both have their uses; but since I can't afford to hunt anything big enough to actually test them out anyway, it is a moot point to me.
If I were you, I would get a 400, since you already have a 500. It will be like shooting a .22.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I have both; they are equally accurate, but the 400 is much easier to shoot, (if you want tiny pairs), as it has a scope and weighs a ton, so has very little recoil. My Searcy 450 has no scope, although it is milled for one, a scope does not belong on a 450. It, too, is regulated very tightly.
What was your question? They both have their uses; but since I can't afford to hunt anything big enough to actually test them out anyway, it is a moot point to me.
If I were you, I would get a 400, since you already have a 500. It will be like shooting a .22.

Although the 500NE has undoubtedly heavy recoil I find I get more of a thrill shooting it especially if I hit what I am aiming at.I had it in Libby and I did good with it almost excellent in the course of events I used it in.I had never before shot it at 100yds and thought I might miss the steel 100yds buffalo but it came through and nailed it.I think I might go with a 450NE because I like my 500 so much.This way I will have two great guns if anything were to happen to my 500 and Butch were no longer building them.

I have not shot game but did shoot a bunch of DRs.

I smoked a clay bird on the mound with a 450/400 at 25 years while I missed a milk jug with the 500NE

A 600NE pushed me back a half step though I did hit the jug.

The 470 Chapuis did not fit me it it beat me up pretty bad.

The Webley 450/400 fit me like a glove and I shot it very well.

In Single barrel rifles there have been- noted over time some select caliber/cartridge case configurations considered by many more accurate than others;
as well as a number of other factors that contribute to an individual single barrel firearm's accuracy.

The true accuracy of a double rifle (of any caliber) has quite a larger contributing group of variables than does a singe barrel.

The accuracy of a double rifle is linked to the regulation of the rifle,
that is to harmonics, of weight and velocity of projectile and recoil impulse.

As with what others have stated above, typically lighter caliber doubles (that fit the shooter) are typically shot better by most users than the larger bores, however, that does not indicate they are inherently more accurate.

Typically in the regulation process smaller caliber, with thinner lighter barrels and higher pressure, faster loads are more difficult to get a DR to regulate to while being constructed than the larger caliber DR with slower and heavier bullets and heavier barrels.

In my experience, two of the most frustrating DR's that I have developed loads for were a 280FL and a 240FL,
while generally the rifles 450 and up load development is rather quickly sorted out.

From my perspective:
a load that is regulated for a quality built DR ,
in a rifle fitted to the shooter,
as well as proper weight for caliber,
with that weight between the hands for balance and"feel"
and
some good technique by the shooter
will result typically good DR accuracy without respect to caliber.

In response to the 450 vs 400 issue, I agree as I age the 400 is more pleasurable.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The 450 NE is THE classic African hunting double.

+450 ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The 450 NE is THE classic African hunting double.

+450 ;-)

If you reload? the 450 is all you need for anything anywhere

With the multitude of .458 projectiles available
the 450NE is a reloaders friend.
I have developed 4 loads of differing weights
that print in a reasonable group at 55 meters.
( The distance at when the rifle was originally regulated)

Even so
As I age the 450/400 and the 375FL are seemingly friendlier

The 450-3,25 and the 450-400-3" were my two favorite calibers. For elephant the 450 and for buffalo the 450-400, If I had to give one up and keep the other, Id have kept the 450-400-3" or 3.25 either one...I would have hated to have to make such a decision...but in the end I sold both..

Would the 450NE be more popular if not for the .45 ban or something similar? I don't recall the details, but there was some issue and it involved India.

Actually, it was the Sudan and India, but yes, some dopey bureaucrat (probably the Brit version of a democrat)banned all 45 cal rifles because of the 577/450 Martini-Henry might fall into Wog hands..

"Around 1907, however, political events
intervened. There was an uprising in India, and
unrest in the Sudan. There were still tens of
thousands of .450 Martini-Henry rifles floating
around. To prevenr insurgents obtaining
ammunidon, the British government banned all
.45}-calibre rifles in both regions"

I ordered A Searcy 450NE the other day.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I ordered A Searcy 450NE the other day.

Butch is willing to sell you another gun?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I ordered A Searcy 450NE the other day.

Butch is willing to sell you another gun?

Yes and he does not have good words for people like you.You have harassed me enough now buzz off.

I'm a 450 NE shooter living in North Central Vermont when you get your 450 come on down will have a shootem-up.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
I'm a 450 NE shooter living in North Central Vermont when you get your 450 come on down will have a shootem-up.

Or come on up!

George: What barrel length did you select for your 450?
Also, did you give any consideration to the 500/416? I know it is a recent creation but it seems a good compromise for plains game and dangerous game.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I ordered A Searcy 450NE the other day.

Butch is willing to sell you another gun?

I'm in a hunting camp in Zimbabwe (Gwayi) and was thinking the same thing.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
George: What barrel length did you select for your 450?
Also, did you give any consideration to the 500/416? I know it is a recent creation but it seems a good compromise for plains game and dangerous game.

I thought I'll let Butch decide for me.
I am sure the 500/416 would be good too.
I wanted something a little easier on the shoulder that is why I went down to the 450.
I might get a 450/400 in the future.

I traded a true magnum mod. 20 mauser custom rifle I built for a 450-400-3" with 20 inch barrels..

I had my doubts figured Id lost my mind, as all my previous doubles had 26 inch barrels and I like them for sure...but I knew this gun shot extremely well and was praised by the owner, and I had brokered the trade for it between him and the original owner. and I knew the owner who posted here at one time, as a righteous man of honor, so we traded..I sold the rifle some years later. That little rifle was the best balanced, handiest, super accurate and fast to point and balanced like a Boss .410 shotgun and I absolutely loved it..If I ever decide to get another double it will have 20 inch tubes..

That gun may be the only 20 inch carbine double in a DG rifle in exhistence?? It was an English gun cut off and apparently re-regulated..

I measured the ones on my 500 and they are 24 inches from muzzle to breach-if that is the correct way of measuring them on a double.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

That little rifle was the best balanced, handiest, super accurate and fast to point and balanced like a Boss .410 shotgun and I absolutely loved it..If I ever decide to get another double it will have 20 inch tubes..

With apologies to the current owner, it had to be ugly as sin. I cannot help but visual something like a Rossi coach gun. At least for me a double rifle is supposed to be the melding of function, craftsmanship and aesthetics. I think that means in terms of barrel length that 24" is okay, 25" is better, 26" is the absolute sweet spot. The barrel length thins the overall appearance of the rifle out to give it a svelte look. Again, at least for me, putting 24" barrels on a really large caliber like a .577 for example, makes most rifles start to look like the double rifle equivalent of an A-Square Hannibal. Same would be true putting really short barrels, like 20" barrels, on a smaller caliber double.

That was my original thinking, but I did a complete turn around after I received it..Sometimes the imagination plays tricks on us.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

That little rifle was the best balanced, handiest, super accurate and fast to point and balanced like a Boss .410 shotgun and I absolutely loved it..If I ever decide to get another double it will have 20 inch tubes..

With apologies to the current owner, it had to be ugly as sin. I cannot help but visual something like a Rossi coach gun. At least for me a double rifle is supposed to be the melding of function, craftsmanship and aesthetics. I think that means in terms of barrel length that 24" is okay, 25" is better, 26" is the absolute sweet spot. The barrel length thins the overall appearance of the rifle out to give it a svelte look. Again, at least for me, putting 24" barrels on a really large caliber like a .577 for example, makes most rifles start to look like the double rifle equivalent of an A-Square Hannibal. Same would be true putting really short barrels, like 20" barrels, on a smaller caliber double.

I agree...28" looks right to my eye and wouldn't go less than 26"

Wow! 28" barrels on a double rifle? Seriously?

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Wow! 28" barrels on a double rifle? Seriously?

28 is just my preference...probably because some of the earlier 450's from H&H wore 28's....but 26 is the proper length.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Wow! 28" barrels on a double rifle? Seriously?

My Army Navy 450 3 1/4 has 28 inch barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
That was my original thinking, but I did a complete turn around after I received it..Sometimes the imagination plays tricks on us.

+1
I have three big bore DR's,458 Lott 21" barrels,470NE 24" barrels,500/416NE 24" barrels,I also have two a step down in caliber,450/400NE 26 " barrels & a 375 H&H 24" barrels,the Lott balances & carries better than all the rest,it's hands down my favorite,I like all my guns but that one is my favorite,it probably would not win any beauty contests,but it sure feels good carrying it in heavy brush,most people have not had an oppurtunity to carry & handle anything shorter than a 24" gun & do not know what they are missing,if velocity can be achieved with a shorter barrel? that would be my choice in a big bore DR.

I'm going to stir the pot a little and say that you're all wrong....the .450 #2 NE is THE BEST......'course I'm just a WEE BIT prejudiced...LOL!!!

My 1905 Gibbs has 28" Barrels, handles like a shotgun...

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
My 1905 Gibbs has 28" Barrels, handles like a shotgun...

That must be a very nice rifle.I think a shorter rifle may be easier to hold and aim because most of the weight is near the body.I have a hard time holding a good aim with my 30 inch heavy barrelled 308.