.....500/416 on the same day that he created the
so famous and respected 416 Rigby rimless, what
would be the standing of the 500/416 in the D/R
world today?

It would not have been created to begin with (the newer round, that is).

I don't care much about the “standing” of cartridges, or if a specific cartridge looks good. I know quite a few who prefer good looking cartridges; personally I prefer effective ones for the specific hunt and animal in question.

As for the 500/416, I think this is a great option to close the gap between 375 and 470 in double rifles. Sure, you have the 450/400, but for those who do not cast bullets themselves there are more accessible, premium quality, bullets for the 416 bore. The roomy case of the 500/416 yields a reasonable chamber pressure, unlike the DR’s which are chambered in the rimless 416 Rigby.

Personally I would choose the 500/416 over the 450/400 due to bullet availability (at least in Europe) and better ballistics if used for moose hunting in open terrain (domestic hunting) or plains game if this is the only rifle one brings to safari.

Edit: What I meant to say was that in 416 bore one has easy access to cheap bullets for practice, I do not think that’s the case for 410 or 411 bore. For hunting, one can get premium bullets for the 450/400 NE of course.

quote:

Originally posted by BrownMax:

Personally I would choose the 500/416 over the 450/400 due to bullet availability (at least in Europe) and better ballistics if used for moose hunting in open terrain (domestic hunting) or plains game if this is the only rifle one brings to safari.

This is REALLY what I am talking about. A double
rifle cartridge that has the trajectory of the
GREAT 416 Rigby, with the same bullet, MV, ME, etc.

It's like a Super-Duper 375 H&H Flng Mag. Cer-
tainly a better choice for elephant than say the
375 Fl Mag or either 450/400 I expect. True also
for hippo, buff, big bears and so on.

It would probably be THE ONE to bridge the gap between the .40's and the 470 if it had come out a couple years ahead of the Rigby in a HV loading like we have today.

The old classics are/were handicapped by the 2100-2200fps loading levels in doubles.

As is said here,IMHO, ymmv...

Rich

I don't consider 2100/2200 to be any handicap. They kill just fine.


Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
I don't consider 2100/2200 to be any handicap. They kill just fine.


Dutch

Well, some may consider them lacking when discussing knocking fillings loose, or detaching retinas.

Perhaps it would be THE double rifle round?

If you are a fan of the sweet 400s you have to love the .416. Long bullets that really penetrate well! No one ever complains that his .416 whatever doesn't penetrates!

The 500/416 is cool, a 500 size rimmed case.
It is NOT a "low pressure" round as is the 450/400 and ilk. You get get .416 velocity and 500 NE recoil. I you don't handle recoil well you won't like the 500/416.

BAILEY BRADSHAW states he can make a 375 Fl Mag
or a 500/416 D/R shoot to a grapefruit with both
barrels at 230 yards. That's sweet for a guy who
wants "to do it all" with one rifle. Measurably Flatter
Trajectory from these two rounds than from anything
with MV of 2050-2200 FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
You get get .416 velocity and 500 NE recoil. I you don't handle recoil well you won't like the 500/416.

How is that possible? The 500/416 typically launhes a 400 gr bullet just below 2400 fps, while the 500 NE typically launches a 570 gr bullet at 2150. On paper the 500/416 should have considerably less recoil than 500 NE, it should also be slightly below the 470 NE. Of course, recoil formulas can be misleading concerning felt recoil.

I have not shot the 500/416, but I’ve heard from people having the Krieghoff in 500/416 that it kicks less than a similar Krieghoff in 470 NE.

BrownMax, I think you ask a very valid question.

I have had a k-gun in 500/416 and in .470 SO I can compare the two. Very similar recoil. I loaded the 500/416 With 450 grain bullets running around 2250 fps at the max. BUllets crossed and it kicked a little more than a 500 gr at 2150. But very little difference. Easy to load too!

....then it would have been properly loaded at about 2200 fps, standard pressures for doubles, and would have been a larger and heavier rifle than a 450/400 due to case diameter ..

Jeffe,

What I am asking is, what if Rigby had created a
rimmed .416 that had a MV of at least 2300 FPS
using 24-26 inch barrels, that operated at a
pressure acceptable to break-open D/Rs, at the
same time as he created his rimless cartridge.
I'm betting that right now you can order a
Purdey, H&H, H&W and any other prestigious name
rifle maker D/R in 500/416. What I am imagining
is if the guys 100+ years ago could have had
Rigby build them a 500/416 Rigby Flanged Express
so to speak; a rimmed .416 that had a MV of at
least 2300 FPS using 24-26 inch barrels, that
operated at a pressure acceptable to break-open D/Rs.

i get it.. and i agree it would be a neat round.. i also state that acceptable vel and pressures would be in the 2150 range, as the 500/416 is, cooperatively, a higher pressure round then the 450/400 ..

and larger .. therefore, for the same wall thickness, the rifle would weigh more at the block, be larger and thicker, and if one tried for more than 2200, would have to weigh more than a 450/400

the low 40s are mediums, not stoppers, and making a hard kicking medium would be counter productive...


but a .416 at 2150 in a very mild recoiling round would have been very nice ....

Below is the link to the Krieghoff info on the 500/416 cartridge.
Click: http://www.claytargetsports.com/pdfs/500_416.pdf

Yes sir.. we are in violent agreement ..

I hear "what if" and take into account what else would be relevant - cordite and (compared to today) spotty steel

it is a GREAT round.. and would be even better at 2200 or so, to be safe with cordite powder .. this is why the 505 gibbs case has the same CLASSIC load as the 500 jeffery -- the former was loaded with cordite, the later with "german flake" and never cordite ..

the 500/416 is a larger diameter case.. and to have the SAME amount of steel around a larger case = more weight...

yes, its a GREAT round.. but ONLY relevant @2400 with modern powders ..

loaded with cordite, its a 2200 MAX load, in a heavier gun, due to the physical nature, than the 450/400 ..

Jeffe,
Nooowww I get your points!!!

Cool@