I have been going back and forth with regards to opting for a falling block or droplock rifle built by Bailey Bradshaw. Now leaning toward a falling block. Can't have .500+ caliber legally here in my district of Norway, so I am thinking about hotrodding .450 NE No2 to 2400 fps with 27 inch barrels.

Been discussed previously here and Quickload says a 450 NE #2 can get 2400 fps with a 500 grainer at 48,000 PSI with H4831SC.

I believe 2400 fps with modern bullets is the ideal velocity and will produce both shock and sufficient penetration from any angle with high quality 500 grain .458 diameter bullets. I asked Bailey if he would do .450 Rigby but he only builds for rimmed cases.

My problem is regulation fodder for Bailey. I live in Norway and exporting ammo to him will not be feasible.

So I am wondering if anyone living in the US would be interested in helping out loading regulation ammo running at these velocities for me (i will of course pay for or provide components)?

If this is possible I will discuss this further with Bailey. He was open to the idea when i mentioned it a year ago but of course reccomended going with regular ammo (450ne) for practicality. Another option may be to buy dies etc and let Bailey load in house... Not sure if he will do that though, but may ask..

I will be pleased to assist BUT sending ammo to the lower 48 states is very expensive as it can't be sent through Canada. The only way is to overnight air express via FEDEX.
I'm set up to load for the .450 no2 and have been shooting the cartridge for many years. I keep my velocity to less than 2150 as my double has 24-inch barrels.
Discuss the situation with BB and if I can help, contact me.
Cal

You might look into one of the custom ammo makers, this one is in Texas and loads the 450 No.2 (I have had no dealings with this company).

Norsk...I dont think the authorities can deny you a .500 NE.

This is pure ignorance from the local police that handeled your application. True, the .50 cal (12,7x99mm) is not allowed....but large caliber hunting rounds does not apply to this rule.

Have you tried a new appeal to the Departement of Justice on this one...?

I believe your chance is good if you explain the situation accordingly..

Forgot to say...the .450 No2 is a very good cartridge, but is there really a need to push the velocity up..?

The .450 No2 delivers 5000 + footpounds with a very low chamber pressure, a big + in a double rifle..

In practical terms I really dont see the need for a .500 over a .450 unless you plan to do a LOT of elephant hunting..

Tanks a lot cal! will discussion it with bb and get back to you. pondoro, my case manager was adviced directly from POD so there is nowhere to appeal..except a civil suit against POD which I can't afford. it's a falling block so the pressure will not be a problem. I would think 500@2400 is more potent than 570@2150... needes? of course not

you could allways move to my district in norway, =) live her for 1month, apply for the 500 to the nice lady we have in the police office, and move back again with your rifle =p

btw i shot my falling block, Ruger No 1 in 458Lott with a 500@2300 and its kicks, that is a factory load from Fusion safari (cheap ammo)
but i did reaload my self for a while and 500@2150 compare to 2300, big difference. dont see the need for 2400 hehe.

Maybe this can help. Play with quickload to see what loads you want at desired velocity and pressure and see what the same loads would do at 3/4 the charge for the 75% rule with powder but the same bullet and weight (500 grains). If you regulate your gun at the 75% less charge you may get lucky and have acceptable results at full tilt. It is a big gamble but could be the answer you are looking for.

Gents:
Make sure your bullet will hold up to 2400 fps. If made for the 2000 fps range it may not stay together on big game at a higher velocity.
Cal

Andreas, I bet the No1 kicked bad! The double barreled falling block will weigh about 2 pounds more so that will tame things down a little. I found 500@2150 in my 470 was pretty mild.

Cal: If I do this, I will only use monometals (barnes tsx and solids with driving bands) so they should take the punishment well enough.

I know the project is a little insane and the power is really not needed. I think I always have a tendency to want to optimize and in this case I can't get it out of my head that a falling block that can take high pressure should be fed rounds tailored to it (and not weaker break actions).

Boom stick; Interesting idea and could work but I think it would be too risky.

With regards to terminal ballistics, I would think 500gr@2400fps is noticably better buffalo medicine (my intended quarry) than 500@2150 or a 570@2150 for that matter.. Or is this wrong?

List of pros and cons:
Pro:
- More velocity equals better penetration (with solids)
- Unique and cool!
- Big intercontinental missile-looking cartriges!

Con:
- Expensive harder to acquire brass
- Ammo for regulation
- More barrel wear (not sure if significant)
- More recoil and slower follow up shot
- Will mostly be used for moose
- Can't hunt with woodleigh softs

Not very rational... But rationality is not always compatible with double rifle ownership`?

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Andreas, I bet the No1 kicked bad! The double barreled falling block will weigh about 2 pounds more so that will tame things down a little. I found 500@2150 in my 470 was pretty mild.

Cal: If I do this, I will only use monometals (barnes tsx and solids with driving bands) so they should take the punishment well enough.

I know the project is a little insane and the power is really not needed. I think I always have a tendency to want to optimize and in this case I can't get it out of my head that a falling block that can take high pressure should be fed rounds tailored to it (and not weaker break actions).

Boom stick; Interesting idea and could work but I think it would be too risky.

With regards to terminal ballistics, I would think 500gr@2400fps is noticably better buffalo medicine (my intended quarry) than 500@2150 or a 570@2150 for that matter.. Or is this wrong?

You can only kill any varmint dead, and once.

By regulating your rifle for an oddball, non-standard load like this you will severely reduce the resale value of it..no fitting ammo available etc..

Per today it is extremely hard to sell anything above .375H&H in Norway, bolt or double, a rifle with an oddball regulation like this will be virtually impossible to shift..

Agreed. Would not sell the rifle unless I by any chance should go completely broke.. Thanks for the input, will ask one more time if BB can do .450 Rigby but I am pretty sure he will not. Then the good old standard .450 31/4 inch will have to suffice (and I can live well with that too)...

The .450 3 1/4 is a very good round, both Hornady and Kynoch makes ammo. I have an old double rifle in .475 3 1/4 (Straight).

This cartridge is the same as .450 3 1/4 but necked up to .475 (actually .483), regulated for 75 grain cordite and a 480 grain bullet..ie almost identical to the .450.

My rifle weighs 11 pounds plus so recoil is pretty manageable..

I have a feeling than many modern doubles are really too light for caliber..

My advice is not going below say 10 1/2 pounds weight in these calibres to make the rifles manageable to shoot.

My advice is to stick with a easy to find & well known cartridge.
470 or 450 3.25....I personally like the 450 better as I feel the recoil is little less with all else being equal (proper stock fit, weight, etc).

Speaking as the owner of a Bradshaw falling block double, I consider myself a steward. It is a work of working art to be enjoyed by me, and by others in decades to come. I would be very hesitant to have it regulated for completely nonstandard ammunition which offers no real advantage over standard fodder.

Ok ok guys, I admit the error of my ways

Norsk, make it in 450 3 1/4 so we can outshoot this annoying 475 Pondoro guy ...

HA...!

That remains to be seen...

I love the 450NE 3.25" but if he likes the 450 No2 and regulates it to nominal loads and safely hot loads it later to see if he can get desired groups and velocity, why not? You are a winner either way.

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
Ok ok guys, I admit the error of my ways

There is no error here. There are many 458 cal bullets that will hold up to 2400 fps, the BB rifle is more than strong enough, and just because it is regulated for a 2300-2400 fps load doesn't mean it wouldn't also shoot factory ammo at 2050-2150 fps just fine, though it would probably need a sight adjustment.

I think something like regulating it so the barrels don't cross at 75 or 100 yds with factory ammo would be step one, then finding a hotter load that shot okay at 50 yds might be a workable solution. Of course, I'd like you to test all this out so when I get around to it, it will be easier and less expensive--that is if it will even work at all

If I was having a BB falling block double built--and I may one day; it would be in 450 NE 3.25" and I would want it regulated at 2200-2300 fps. And I wouldn't care that the double rifle purists didn't like that................

Going for 450 31/4 regulated for factory hornady loads. Will experiment a little with what regulates. Undecided on having 26-28 inch barrels. Bailey tapers the barrels but I am still worried about front heavy balance. I like the aesthetics of longer barrels and that they give s little more velocity however. I have mentioned this in previous posts but have not been convinced yet (about optimal barrel length). The traditional length is 28 or as much as 30 inches?

26" max