Can anyone help with the following questions?

How does the action on the Chapuis 9.3X74 compare with the Merkel? Are they both based on the 20 or 28 gauge frame? I have heard that the Chapuis action design is..."too French, and a little "complicated" for a double rifle". Thoughts?

I know JJ (highly respected) thinks the Chapuis is a good double, but he is a dealer....... comments?

It has been a while since I have seen a used Chapuis (9.3X74) on any of the sites. Not selling many or just not for sale?

Thanks in advance :>

I had a Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74r and was very pleased with every aspect of it. I'm sorry I sold it but always want something new. I have owned a Merkel 470NE and currently own a Merkel 141 in 8x57JRS. I also cannot fault th Merkel in any manner. The 141 and the UGEX seem to be about the same size to me but I'm depending on memory. I like the Chapuis action,barrels and forearm better than the Merkel but prefer the merkel buttstock. I have the weird european humpback and have to say it's the best fitting over the counter double I've found. The Merkel is a double underlug w/greener crossbolt and the Chapuis is a single WIDE underlug. I think theyare of equal strength. The Chapuis was easily capable of shooting 1 1/2" groups all day long. Have not shot the Merkel as yet ,waiting to have claw mounts fitted. Had scope on the Chapuis and it was perfect combination. Pick em up and make your choice, you are getting an excellent gun in any case. Have only met JJ once but feel he would not tell you an untruth about a gun just to sell it. In discussing Chapuis with him he seemed to answer all my questions truthfully.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
Can anyone help with the following questions?

How does the action on the Chapuis 9.3X74 compare with the Merkel? Are they both based on the 20 or 28 gauge frame? I have heard that the Chapuis action design is..."too French, and a little "complicated" for a double rifle". Thoughts?

In 9.3, the Chapuis and the Merkel 140 are similar in size. You'll get a lot of opinions on this issue. I consider the actions of both too small and feel that both guns are underweight for caliber, especially so the Chapuis. The Chapuis is usually 7.25 lbs bare, which is at least a pound too light for a 9.3 in my view. The Merkel 141 is an even smaller frame (28 gauge), has shorter barrels, and comes in under 7 pounds I'm told. I've handled several and don't care for them in 9.3. The Chapuis action is a less traditional design, but is a sound, strong action.

quote:

I know JJ (highly respected) thinks the Chapuis is a good double, but he is a dealer....... comments?

I've actually found J. J. to be pretty free with criticism of the stuff that he likes too. I think his opinions are more honest than you'll get from most.

quote:

It has been a while since I have seen a used Chapuis (9.3X74) on any of the sites. Not selling many or just not for sale?

My impression is that they sell quite a few, but they just don't come up on the used market very often. I know a number of guys that own them, and that like them a lot.

In the small and medium bores, I prefer the Chapuis to the Merkel. I actually like the Chapuis 9.3 a lot, but wish it was a bit heavier and available with longer barrels.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 & Zim,

Thanks for your input, going to do it, just not sure which direction to go in.

400, on the weight question, would adding some weight to the butt cause some balance issues? I added a Mercury tube to the but of my Kreighoff and it really helped its balance.

Jim:

I think both balance reasonably well, they're just light for caliber. Yeah, I think adding weight to the butt would cause a balance problem. Scoping them would certainly bring the weight up and put it in the middle at least.

Yeah, the larger caliber Merkel and K-guns are muzzle heavy, and adding weight to the butt helps.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Jim,
I recently started shooting the Chapuis 9.3 and I am very happy with it. Mine is scoped and feels great in my hands. The gun points very well and I expect to do a lot of hunting with it in the future. Recoil is not bad to me and I don't have a recoil pad on my rifle. I have yet to get my hands on the new 28g Merkel however I heard great reviews of it by Tony at the last DRSS event. He seemed quite impressed.

I think you will find this a Ford or Chevy question, both Chapuis and Merkel make good guns and neither will disappoint you. Try and look at both and buy the one that fits or that you like best.

Its interesting that several posters felt both were light for the 9.3x74 caliber, I have used a Merkel 160 in 9.3x74R (20ga frame size) and recently switched to a Merkel 141 (28ga frame size) because I liked the lighter weight of the smaller gun better and felt the 20ga frame size guns were heavier than needed.

To me, the 141 is about the right size and weight for a .22 Hornet, 6.5X53R, or other miniature cartridge. I've handled them in .30-06 and 9.3. Quite frankly, I really disliked it. Too light for 9.3 and too light to swing well on moving game. Much too much of a good thing. If Merkel really has discontinued the 140 in the medium bores in favor of the 141 as I've heard, I feel strongly that they've made a bad mistake.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
To me, the 141 is about the right size and weight for a .22 Hornet, 6.5X53R, or other miniature cartridge. I've handled them in .30-06 and 9.3. Quite frankly, I really disliked it. Too light for 9.3 and too light to swing well on moving game. Much too much of a good thing. If Merkel really has discontinued the 140 in the medium bores in favor of the 141 as I've heard, I feel strongly that they've made a bad mistake.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I absolutely agree! I have a 140E.1 and it weighs 8.3 pounds, and is just about right, and with a set of claws, and a light scope, it would just top 9 lbs, IMO a better weight for a the 9.3X74R S/S double rifle!

I truley like some of the features od the 141, but it's weight isn't one of them. It is about the same weight as the Chapuis, whic I think is a little light as well, but is improved by the addtion of a scope as well. All three are good hunting guns, I simply like a little more weight. It's a personal thing!

Well, like MacD said...it's a personal thing.... what feels good and works for one person does not mean it will feel good and work for others. Not sure what GSI is importing now but the 140 in 9.3 is still available in Europe.

the new merkel on 28 ga frame is as perfect a 9,3 as has been developed. they are the hot item for driven boar hunting. fast and easy handling.

the guys who like heavy rifles can stick to them -it makes them happy

I have been using a 9,3 Chapuis for several years. It is my favorite hunting rifle under 40 cal. I have carried it quite a few miles in Texas, Montana, and Zimbabwe [3 safaris], and I killed a black bear with it in Canada [did not have to walk very far] .

I think is is a great hunting rifle, one of the beat on the Planet. I do not think it is too light.

I liked the 28ga Merkel I shot at the last DRSS shoot/hunt. It had 21" bbls if I remember correctly. It was light short and handy.

But I also like light weight short bolt rifles as well as short AR's and M1-A's.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
the new merkel on 28 ga frame is as perfect a 9,3 as has been developed. they are the hot item for driven boar hunting. fast and easy handling.

Tomo, you wouldn't know what the "hot item for driven boar hunting" was if it ran up and bit you on the ass.

quote:

the guys who like heavy rifles can stick to them -it makes them happy

Yeah, you've previously made it pretty clear that you like ultra-light rifles - like the .577 you had built to weight 10.5 lbs, so light for caliber that you couldn't sell it because you couldn't find anybody else as dumb as you.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Mark,
Care to share your true feelings on the subject?

400

thanks for the personal attacks.

just goes to show that despite some good knowledge of double rifles you are still a texas bubba unwilling to look at what is happening today.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
400

thanks for the personal attacks.

No problem, Bubba. Always willing to return the favor.

quote:

just goes to show that despite some good knowledge of double rifles you are still a texas bubba unwilling to look at what is happening today.

That's rich. You don't seem to have a clue what's happening today. You make no attempt to hold up your end of informed discussion here, and amuse yourself by being a tosser instead. You peddle bullshit and then cry foul when you get some on you.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400

so tell me oh wise one, what is happening with driven boar shooting in europe today ?

and when was the last time you were there,, what country and what rifle did you use ?

and most importantly, how many did you shoot ?

Tom,
What do you use on driven boar hunts?

Do you really have a 577 for sale?

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
400

so tell me oh wise one, what is happening with driven boar shooting in europe today ?

and when was the last time you were there,, what country and what rifle did you use ?

and most importantly, how many did you shoot ?

Uh-huh. YOU made the statement Bubba. Back it up. While you're at it, here's another from the Dakota thread on the Big Bore board you can explain:

quote:

originally posted by tomo577:
just like paul roberts ruined Rigby and had to sell it these guys will spin it off and keep on trucking.

What is the basis for this statement? Do you know Paul Roberts? Do you have knowledge of the Rigby transaction? Have his peers in the London trade indicated this to you? What was your motivation for making this statement? I can't figure out if this statement just indicates profound ignorance, or a desire to make a splash by saying something outrageous, so I'm interested to hear your explanation.

Then there's the jewel from Roscoe's string on his first range report:

quote:

originally posted by tomo577:
they make the trigger pull heavier on the rear trigger so newbies to double rifles won't accidentally set them off during recoil. (and think the rifle is doubling)

Jeffe has already called you on that one, and you didn't respond, so here's another chance for you to do so.

Oh, by the way, you never answered JPK's question on Showbart's last string either.

quote:

originally posted by Jeffeosso:
tom acts like an internet bully, constantly poking the sleeping dog then wanting to act like "but I didn't do anything"...sorry if my reply came over rough, but he finally woke the dog up.

Jeffe got it right between the eyes.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
just goes to show that despite some good knowledge of double rifles you are still a texas bubba unwilling to look at what is happening today.

TOM, I have tried to stay out of you two guys little name calling tirades, but when you bring TEXAS into it, in a negative way, then you are seriously pokeing a sleeping dragon, with a sharp stick!

Your takeing of this BUBBA thing is wrong. Your assigning a negative conotation to it, seems a little elitest to me,when the meaning of BUBBA is simply short for Brother, and in Texas is a term of edearment!

My sugestion to you is, if you guys want to get personal, then keep it personal, and leave Texas out of it! If you bring Texas into it, you are including a lot of people, who couldn't care less about this little contest, and would take offence to your slurrs, me included! I and the rest of Texas have no bone to pick with anyone, so please leave us out of your personal shit fests!

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
...you are still a texas bubba ....

guilyy as charged. And bubba's with quite a few of the guys you are attempting to (and making an utterly fantastic failure at) have a battle of wits with.

in fact, tom, we spent some time informing you of the word.. but that doesn't appear to sink in, as you immediately took that from "stupid" to "racist" in your little yankee dialect.


on the battle field of wit, tommyboy, you come poorly dressed

want to hear a funny?

little tommy starts this crap all ove rthe place, buy has chosen to pick a fight with ME...

then, before I knew he has done so, turned off his PMs from me.


i reckon he's afraid to hear in PMs what is not fit for public consumption


it's rare that you see a "man" in such a need of either
1: needes to have supervision to make sure he takes his meds
2: needs a horsewhippin

jeez Jefffe, don't sugarcoat it man; tell what you really think!

Rich
DRSS

PS: Tomo, "...don't mess with Texas...".

Jeez guys, sorry I started this thread.

To those of you who helped me out on my original question, thank you

JBoutFisn,

Sorry but I can't stand hypocrites so I;ll have to continue the hijacking.

Tomo,

Here you are commenting in support of heavy rifles:
Posted 15 February 2007 08:20 Hide Post
too much emphasis is placed on so called
" correct weights for double rifles "

"the correct weight is what you can handle quickly and get the second shot off quickly and accurately.

this will be more weight for some and less weight for others , because recoil is a very personal thing. and that is what weight effects most.

the "gurus" who read something and believe the lord wrote it there are not prone to be confused by the realities.

they saw it in writing - it MUST be true.

so they postulate this truth for all others, without thinking. maybe that is where the problem really lies. the ability to think, or not.

get a rifle that feels good and that you can shoot . don't worry about what it weighs !"


Here you are commenting in support of light rifles:
Posted 20 February 2007 10:27 Hide Post
the new merkel on 28 ga frame is as perfect a 9,3 as has been developed. they are the hot item for driven boar hunting. fast and easy handling.

the guys who like heavy rifles can stick to them -it makes them happy"

And:
"jpk when i hunted elephants i always had a gunbearer - 1 1/2 steps in front of me.

no one who carries his own rifle will ever be fresher when the action starts.

esp at the end of the day"

So which is it? Can't be both.

Still waiting for the photos of your bun bearer carrying your rifle on safari.

JPK

jpk - both my comments are in support of light rifles, you read the first other than intended.

those that enjoy heavy rifles - good for them

for me, when carrying my own rifle i prefer a lighter one

i don't take pictures when hunting - i hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
PS: Tomo, "...don't mess with Texas...".

quote:

originally posted by Jeffeosso:
tom acts like an internet bully, constantly poking the sleeping dog then wanting to act like "but I didn't do anything"...sorry if my reply came over rough, but he finally woke the dog up.

Heh, Rich, I thought I gave him far warning... then he goes and picks a fight with Texas...

Ever read up on the battle of San Jacinto?

know what a texan calls a battle 10,850 to 967 Texans?

a fair fight!!!

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
i don't take pictures when hunting - i hunt

Famous words of one of our trolls, on his rifles...

What do you do AFTER the hunt... while the gun bearer is toting your rifle back to the truck?

400 and rusty

the last driven boar hunt i was on was in estonia and i used a borrowed merkel 9,3 double
on the 20 ga frame. i got two. don't ask how many got away that group of hunters has embraced the new 9,3 from merkel .there are 5 guys that traded in their bolt guns for them.

yes i do know paul and all about how his love of african hunting that kept him from tending the store. if it wasn't for his girlfriend i doubt he would have had anything left to sell.

Tomo,

Fair enough, how 'bout posting some trophy photos, guns included, you included? Or even some camp photos?

JPK

re: roscoe's string range report
don't you guys have any tongue in cheek humor ?

re- read it

i don't know how to post photos but i can send them to someone who can do it for me. may have to wait till after the louisville show

i never called jesseoso a dog !

but if that is his self description, what can i say ???

400

still waiting for your reply to the driven boar hunt questions

Tomo,

You can email them to me and I will post them for you.

I will send you a PM with my office email adress.

JPK

Edit: PM sent.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
i don't know how to post photos but i can send them to someone who can do it for me. may have to wait till after the louisville show

nor did you ever try to search for it
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/951100671

well, which is it? did you lie HERE

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
i don't know how to post photos but i can send them to someone who can do it for me. may have to wait till after the louisville show

or HERE

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
i don't take pictures when hunting - i hunt

What is the deal with the great state of PA. It seems that the Troll Way must run right through the middle of it.

Tomo577? Cats? Wynwood? Carmello?

WTF over?

jeffe

i learned early on that you cannot hunt and take pictures at the same time. you do one or the other, not both.

so when i hunt, i hunt.

pictures of trophies come later .. then it is picture taking time.

surestrike.... i wonder what you are trying to say..... but haven't the foggiest. is it something to do with a rocky mountain high ?