quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
That rifle aint even a true lefty! It is a wannabe with the right trigger in front.
That is just inexcuseable I could never hunt with it.

Between the lousy wood and the fake southpaw treatment, I rarely take it out of the safe, I am really embarrassed at times in public with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Scotch Bonnet:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by Nicholosi:

quote:

But are they comparable? I'd teld to think not. Usually people don't give their product away. Most people don't give away 10-12k for 6k. That said I've not shot or held one, so just saying.

Brett

Fair enough. I'm not disparaging the merkle, heym or K guns, etc. I just (total know nothing neophyte, mind you) don't think of them as "best guns". In my mind the traditional British makers made/make Best Guns.

I don't doubt that they spend more on manufacturing. It's apparent when handling them even to me.

I don't feel like I got swindled on the Sabatti. I think it will kill what I shoot at. I suppose being the heathen that I am I can accept the lesser fit/finish to be able to have 2 instead of one.

I'll confess to lusting after the Searcy guns and if $10K going through the bank account wouldn't set off the spousal unit's alarms I'd probably have one and might yet.


Regards,

John

Nicholosi,

I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Most folks who have the inclination to buy a double rifle, also have the brains to clearly understand the difference between a Sabbati and a Merkel/Searcy/Heym, etc.

When you use the term "Best Gun", you need to understand that in traditional terms there are only a few best guns, whether it be DR or shotgun, and those are generally considered to be H&H, Purdey, McKay Brown, Dickson, Boss, and if we allow for a little slippage into continental Europe, a select few Italian and German guns.

There is a definition assigned to best guns, as indicated in Cyril Adams book, I think entitled Best Guns. I don't always agree with Cyril, but who am I to argue?

The term I like to use is "fine gun". I do not consider a Sabbati a fine gun, however, I think that it is what it is; a $5000 double rifle that has it's place in the market, and usually functions well. It is not even close in worksmanship to a Merkel, Chapuis, Heym, Searcy, VC.

Most of these guns are for the most part hand-made, pain-stakingly regulated, hand-engraved, etc. The only complaint about these guns in the past have been in selection of wood grade, although the Germans are getting better at this.

As I have said before, the biggest problem with Sabbati's are not the guns themselves as the entities who represent them; Cabelas and USSG. This is debatable to some, but neither are known for their outstanding customer service or taking care of customers when problems arise.

There are always exceptions to every story.

I think this is very well stated and in a way sort of gets to heart of the original poster's question which is why would one spend that kind of money for a double which most would not consider to be a "fine" gun when for the same money one could buy what most everyone could agree is a "fine" bolt gun. Perhaps the answer is merely "because a double isn't a bolt gun". For me personally, I like fine firearms and would not sink that kind of money into what is apparently a bottom tier double when I could buy a top-tier bolt action or single shot for about the same cost. That said, I think everyone should buy what makes them happy and I wish everyone the best of luck with their Sabattis. Just my $0.02.

Well, CMCdoc has a "fine" gun for sale, a Chapuis Ugex 9.3x74 with great wood, a nice Leupold scope, recknagle mounts, dies, etc. for only $4700. Why would anyone buy any caliber Sabbati when one could get a gun of this quality at that price. Just my random thoughts, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by Scotch Bonnet:

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:

quote:

Originally posted by Nicholosi:

quote:

But are they comparable? I'd teld to think not. Usually people don't give their product away. Most people don't give away 10-12k for 6k. That said I've not shot or held one, so just saying.

Brett

Fair enough. I'm not disparaging the merkle, heym or K guns, etc. I just (total know nothing neophyte, mind you) don't think of them as "best guns". In my mind the traditional British makers made/make Best Guns.

I don't doubt that they spend more on manufacturing. It's apparent when handling them even to me.

I don't feel like I got swindled on the Sabatti. I think it will kill what I shoot at. I suppose being the heathen that I am I can accept the lesser fit/finish to be able to have 2 instead of one.

I'll confess to lusting after the Searcy guns and if $10K going through the bank account wouldn't set off the spousal unit's alarms I'd probably have one and might yet.


Regards,

John

Nicholosi,

I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Most folks who have the inclination to buy a double rifle, also have the brains to clearly understand the difference between a Sabbati and a Merkel/Searcy/Heym, etc.

When you use the term "Best Gun", you need to understand that in traditional terms there are only a few best guns, whether it be DR or shotgun, and those are generally considered to be H&H, Purdey, McKay Brown, Dickson, Boss, and if we allow for a little slippage into continental Europe, a select few Italian and German guns.

There is a definition assigned to best guns, as indicated in Cyril Adams book, I think entitled Best Guns. I don't always agree with Cyril, but who am I to argue?

The term I like to use is "fine gun". I do not consider a Sabbati a fine gun, however, I think that it is what it is; a $5000 double rifle that has it's place in the market, and usually functions well. It is not even close in worksmanship to a Merkel, Chapuis, Heym, Searcy, VC.

Most of these guns are for the most part hand-made, pain-stakingly regulated, hand-engraved, etc. The only complaint about these guns in the past have been in selection of wood grade, although the Germans are getting better at this.

As I have said before, the biggest problem with Sabbati's are not the guns themselves as the entities who represent them; Cabelas and USSG. This is debatable to some, but neither are known for their outstanding customer service or taking care of customers when problems arise.

There are always exceptions to every story.

I think this is very well stated and in a way sort of gets to heart of the original poster's question which is why would one spend that kind of money for a double which most would not consider to be a "fine" gun when for the same money one could buy what most everyone could agree is a "fine" bolt gun. Perhaps the answer is merely "because a double isn't a bolt gun". For me personally, I like fine firearms and would not sink that kind of money into what is apparently a bottom tier double when I could buy a top-tier bolt action or single shot for about the same cost. That said, I think everyone should buy what makes them happy and I wish everyone the best of luck with their Sabattis. Just my $0.02.

Well, CMCdoc has a "fine" gun for sale, a Chapuis Ugex 9.3x74 with great wood, a nice Leupold scope, recknagle mounts, dies, etc. for only $4700. Why would anyone buy any caliber Sabbati when one could get a gun of this quality at that price. Just my random thoughts, Mike

I agree with you 100 percent.

You can buy Merkels in that caliber for close to that as well. The caliber is the key to the low price so I guess if you are asking whether to buy that gun in that caliber or a Sabbati is say, 450NE, I'd take the latter. And again I ask you, have you personally held a Merkel and a Sabbati inspected them closely, including the price delta? You might be surprised, then again I don't think y'all read my post above anyway. If Sabbatis walked on water, someone here would quip "yeah that's because the can't swim"...

quote:

I ask you, have you personally held a Merkel and a Sabbati inspected them closely, including the price delta?

Yes, I have actually, at Cabelas, and in my opinion the price difference is justified. The Merkel is a much nicer double but it should be, it costs a fair bit more money.

Well, let's just say my observations were somewhat different. cheers,

Finally people besides me and 500n agree on something but I put it in these words if you can afford the 5500 double today why not hold on to that and buy the 8500 double down the road

This all seems like much ado about nothing to me. Everyone understands that:

- A Baikal is better than nothing at all
- A Sabatti is better than a Baikal
- A Merkel is better than a Sabatti
- A Heym is better than a Merkel
- A Westley Richards is better than a Heym
- A Purdy is better than a Westley Richards

. . . and at every step along the way the ante goes up accordingly. No one in their right mind would say -- all others things being equal -- they would take the Sabatti over the Purdy.

. . . and to compare a double rifle at a given price point with a bolt action of a given price point makes about as much sense as comparing a recurve bow of a given price point with a compound bow of a given price point. In the case of the former, the only thing they have in common is that they are rifles; in the case of the latter, the only thing they have in common is that they are bows.

. . . and to think, I just wasted two precious minutes of my life taking the time to respond to this nonsense.

Good post Mike, albeit a caveat; A Mercedes Benz might be better than a Toyota, but not twice as good and certainly not twice the price.
And granted my opinion is "tainted" but I just couldn't see that much difference between a Merkel and a Sabbati, and certainky not twice as good and believe me, when I went to buy mine I went in with a ton of excuses to myself NOT to buy the Sabbati and drop the extra coin on the Merkel. jorge

As to the original post and question, it is a double thing, you either get it or you don't, and that is fine either way.

Nitro450exp

quote:

us it is hard enough to get that first $5k

Then dont you think African hunting and Rifles might not be a wise buy if its hard to come by the first 5 k ??

quote:

Originally posted by Nicholosi:
I don't feel like I got swindled on the Sabatti. I think it will kill what I shoot at. I suppose being the heathen that I am I can accept the lesser fit/finish to be able to have 2 instead of one.

Good show! I think that's a good take away.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:

quote:

us it is hard enough to get that first $5k

Then dont you think African hunting and Rifles might not be a wise buy if its hard to come by the first 5 k ??

Not at all. Have no intentions of going back to hunt Africa unless a lost realitve leaves me a couple of million. Not sure why people think doubles should only be used in Africa. Have not carried a bolt action rifle big game hunting since I bought my Chapuis.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
He told me if you can live with a gun that will shoot fair at 50 yards and no better, you may be happy with it. He also said that it is a 6 thousand dollar rifle for 6 thousand dollars.

I have yet to see a K or a Heym or a VC or God forbid a Searcy be delivered with a loose trigger guard or a trigger that does not work.

A guy like me that doesn't know shit about guns but likes to kill stuff with them relies on others to produce a product that will not let me down. When hunting I don't want to fiddle, worry fix or even talk to the PH about the damn thing.

It is meant to kill.

When I lived in Spain they were sold for $2000 for the over unders and $3000 for the side by sides.

I don't think they were ever worth $6000, only to Cabelas and those that bought them.

I bought a Blaser S-2 in 9.3x74 for $5000 in Spain. I sold it as it didn't really work either.

quote:

Originally posted by Express_Rifles:


Then dont you think African hunting and Rifles might not be a wise buy if its hard to come by the first 5 k ??

Please explain ...

steve

sabatti's are good guns for the price, they do some things differently than the traditionel way of making a double rifle, but it works because of the bulk they produce.

there is a lot of different makers around the globe that makes C-class or working doubles (call it what you will) they are generally quite compareble in quality and looks, we all ty to make ours differ from the competition in some way or another, but the start project are pretty much the same.

1:
Cnc made boxlock action, with modern steels there are not one action that is better (sturdier) than the next, so style is what you buy here.

2:
monoblocked barrels, here is where you will get into a lot of the price difference, AKA barrrel profiles and how well they are struck up to the finished product, look down the side of the barrels, the less they ripple the better they are struck up, this takes time and handwork, sadly you can not have a machine or a chimp do this for you, qualifiede time is a big cost factor these days.

3:
Stock. the wood quality and the profile is what sets most C-classes apart, as all gunmakers have a different idea about what a perfect stock profile is, you will see very different guns coming out, small secret is that they all work, but for different applications, some are better for fast instinctive shooting and some are better for the shooting sticks and the range. you can usually see the difference in how open the hand is, meaning that the bigger the opening the better for fast instinctive shooting.
4:
checkering is a bastard as you can have it machine cut or rolled on and it can work but you cant have it coming up around the hand where the checkering matters the most for control of the guns, a lot of trigger guard biting of the finger is because of the lack of proper checkering, but again handcut checkering cost man hours and that will bring up the prices.

5:
regulation and ribs. these days with the quality of the ammunition and barrels we have, you can actually preset the barrels for a given load and if you produce enough guns you simply brace the barrels and ribs together and most of the guns will come out shooting all right, especially if you do your shooting in a machine rest. this is not very traditionel but is works on about 80% of the guns for a decent regulation and then you just have to discharge the rest or hope that the client wont notice .
the traditionel way of bracing the barrels in the monoblock and setting the ribs in tin and regulating by hand demands manhours and raising the prices.

so a few small pointers is the usual, that you get what you pay for most of the time, but please look at the barrel assambly and the way the barrels are struck up, as these are the most time consuming parts of the C-class rifles.

also you might not have the need for your gun to be with all the bells and whistles in the handfitting department, and honestly the fit of the stock can be overcome by mounting techniques instead of the expensive idea that it have to be fitted to you perfectly(consider the fact that you use your guns in many different climates with very different clothes moving the stock closer or further away from you by up to an inch

the areas are becoming blurred with gunmakers setting the prices high without making the work demanding those prices, my first batch of C-classes went quite a bit higher in price than expected but i will just have to either raise the prices of the next batch or making a few shortcuts depending on how the markets react on this.

this business have a lot of hyperbole and we as gunmakers are responcible for a lot of it, as to profit on the lesser knowlegde out there, i dont agree with it, but have desided to just do my own thing, and let the market deside what to make of it

happy new year to you and your's

peter

All I can say is...I like my Merkel 140-2 .500 NE. I looked at a bunch before I settled on it. I was looking for a well-made "using rifle". But...I like "good (albeit practical) equipment"!!! Thus far...I really can't criticize. Am gonna put a ghost ring on it however!

Excellent post Peter. I wish I had someone like you over here that knows doubles so I could get a face-to-face assessment. Having said that, the gun has been given very good writeups by our Gun Test mag (I don't think they are experts on doubles by a long shot however) but none other than JJ Perodeau also gave it good marks. Happy New Year to you too sir! jorge

I bought a Merkel OVER a Heym. Could have had either. I like the
Merkel action better. And anyone that says wood-to-metal-fit is BETTER on a Heym vs. a Merkel...well...I can give you the name of a good optometrist!

Great post Peter!

It's always a matter of deciding how far to go to keep costs low enough without comprimising the rifle's function and to a lesser degree it's styling.

I envey the high end makers who have the luxury of sparing no expense to make the best rifles they are capable of. It would be more work, but far less stressful once the economics are removed from worry.

The bottom line is when you are approaching $10k+ in price, the rifles are judged on "Best" standards, and will always fall short somewhere. Best quality work really is expensive to do.

I own 2 Merkels and a Searcy but I am in no way an expert on DR's. I looked at the Sabatti's at the NRA convention and they are definitely no Merkel or Searcy. That said, based on what I have read from those that own them, I would consider buying one as an inexpensive working rifle for the farm for coyotes, deer and hogs.

jorge

thank you sir, but you do actually have people like me in the US, Mr. bradshaw and his work leaves me astounded most of the times, and he also has one quality that will make him one of the great ones in time, and that is that he is not shy to ask questions and seek inspiration outside of the beaten path, for that i envy him and i think he knows this by now

my assesment of the sabatti is that it actually is pretty good value for the price, is there things that i would change, off course there is, but i am a pretty conservative guy so this will proberly be to make it into the more english lines, but in my view i think you have the caliber that really shines over the rest as the weight is perfect and yours actually shoots, so my suggestions would proberly be to have somebody like bailey to redo the checkering and give it a decent oil finish, and slim the forend down to a splinter forend.

the reason for the forend is actually that in my oppinion the beaver forend is acceptble on medium bore or a small bore but not on a large caliber double. besides the look (i really hate and detest them) i am not sure that it will hold up to a lot of freehand shooting with you holding on to it without cracking.

just to add that i have actually handled the sabatti big bore as the factory dont lie far from my barrel maker in italy

with the very best regards

peter

Thank you very much again Peter. As a matter of fact, one of the things I intend to do is refinish the wood as you suggested. If you get the chance to handle a Sabatti agaim I would like your assessment on the crown and how they finish theirs. cheers, jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
In reply to the main question-"Why would anybody buy $6,000.00 on a Sabatti "budget" double?"

A couple of years ago I had an opportunity to get either a Searcy Field Grade or a off the shelf Merkle... But due to circumstances beyond my control, those options became out of the question because of the price.

So it was beteen the Pedersoli Kodiak double rifles in 45-70, or a Sabatti, and Sabatti won.

I will be the first person to say the wood finish and wood to metal fit is not the best.
I would be the first also to say that Sabattis are not to be compared to ANY "high grade" double, much less a Heym, V.C. Searcy or even a Merkle.
But as I can see, nobody is arguing that fact.


And in answer to the (percieved) underlying question.

I will say that I do (or did) not want a used Dakota/Kilimanjaro/Empire bolt action when compared to a double rifle of (almost) any stripe. I will lay myself a little open here and say a Sabatti is the only double rifle -in a proper dangerous game caliber- that I could reasonably afford.

As Mr. Bradshaw said "a bolt action ain't no double!"

P.S. by the way, Sabattis cost $5,499. for an ejector modle and 5,000. for an extactor modle... not $6,000.

Well said Nemo

Look, there are a lot of guys who would love to own a double but maybe can't afford a Merkel, Blaser, or a K-gun. I confess that I have never even seen a Sabatti but the guys that have them seem to like them. My only complaint about the Sabatti is that in the heavier calibers they seem to be quite light but if they work, I say "go for it"! It's not a question of why not buy a bolt? The guy who wants a double, wants a double.

P.S. I drive a 2010 TorRed Dodge Charger R/T. Yea, it's got a Hemi.

P.S.S. Have any of you guys tried Colorado Whiskey?

next time i go down there i will make it a point to check up on it, but remember that if your gun shoots, there is no reason to medel with it, you would be very suppriced as how little change you need to throw off the regulation, and with your gun reregulation is quite a bastard, and somewhat expencive.

best

peter

Peter,
Did you ever make it to Zambia? I never ran into you whilst there in November

Steve

steve

no not yet, trip delayed because of engraver not finishing his work yet, i am flying as soon as the work is done.

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
next time i go down there i will make it a point to check up on it, but remember that if your gun shoots, there is no reason to medel with it, you would be very suppriced as how little change you need to throw off the regulation, and with your gun reregulation is quite a bastard, and somewhat expencive.

best

peter

Thanks again Peter. Yeah I spoke with JJ and his price is 700 US plus 40 rounds. . I'm leaving mine alone!

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
In reply to the main question-"Why would anybody buy $6,000.00 on a Sabatti "budget" double?"

A couple of years ago I had an opportunity to get either a Searcy Field Grade or a off the shelf Merkle... But due to circumstances beyond my control, those options became out of the question because of the price.

So it was beteen the Pedersoli Kodiak double rifles in 45-70, or a Sabatti, and Sabatti won.

I will be the first person to say the wood finish and wood to metal fit is not the best.
I would be the first also to say that Sabattis are not to be compared to ANY "high grade" double, much less a Heym, V.C. Searcy or even a Merkle.
But as I can see, nobody is arguing that fact.


And in answer to the (percieved) underlying question.

I will say that I do (or did) not want a used Dakota/Kilimanjaro/Empire bolt action when compared to a double rifle of (almost) any stripe. I will lay myself a little open here and say a Sabatti is the only double rifle -in a proper dangerous game caliber- that I could reasonably afford.

As Mr. Bradshaw said "a bolt action ain't no double!"

P.S. by the way, Sabattis cost $5,499. for an ejector modle and 5,000. for an extactor modle... not $6,000.

I'm not so sure about that Nemo. By the time Jorge is done with "modifications" he will most likely be over 7k. With a used Chapious or Merk or K for 7k-9k the depreciation is done forever. You have an 8 thousand dollar used rifle that is worth 8 thousand dollars. With a Sabatti, Jorge will have around 7 thousand dollars in a 5,400.00 dollar rifle that is worth probably 4,000.00 used.

Steve

Sorry but the "mods" I had in mind were just a refinish and a grip cap, easily done here for under four hundred, so your figures are a little off. Also please point me to where I can find a used Chapuis or Merkel-in a real caliber, i.e, 450-400NE or bigger for seven grand. We get the picture, in your opinion Sabbatis are all garbage. jorge

A really nice almost like new Chapuis .470 just sold here in the classifieds here for $8K and here's a Merkel .500 Kebco has for a bit more, some bargaining with Ken and one could probably buy it for less than the advertised price. I have also recently seen new Merkel .470s on Guns International for $7.999. Not 7 grand but still not a lot more and these rifles will need nothing done to them.

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100137721

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
In reply to the main question-"Why would anybody buy $6,000.00 on a Sabatti "budget" double?"

A couple of years ago I had an opportunity to get either a Searcy Field Grade or a off the shelf Merkle... But due to circumstances beyond my control, those options became out of the question because of the price.

So it was beteen the Pedersoli Kodiak double rifles in 45-70, or a Sabatti, and Sabatti won.

I will be the first person to say the wood finish and wood to metal fit is not the best.
I would be the first also to say that Sabattis are not to be compared to ANY "high grade" double, much less a Heym, V.C. Searcy or even a Merkle.
But as I can see, nobody is arguing that fact.


And in answer to the (percieved) underlying question.

I will say that I do (or did) not want a used Dakota/Kilimanjaro/Empire bolt action when compared to a double rifle of (almost) any stripe. I will lay myself a little open here and say a Sabatti is the only double rifle -in a proper dangerous game caliber- that I could reasonably afford.

As Mr. Bradshaw said "a bolt action ain't no double!"

P.S. by the way, Sabattis cost $5,499. for an ejector modle and 5,000. for an extactor modle... not $6,000.

I'm not so sure about that Nemo. By the time Jorge is done with "modifications" he will most likely be over 7k. With a used Chapious or Merk or K for 7k-9k the depreciation is done forever. You have an 8 thousand dollar used rifle that is worth 8 thousand dollars. With a Sabatti, Jorge will have around 7 thousand dollars in a 5,400.00 dollar rifle that is worth probably 4,000.00 used.

Steve

Nganga,

I respect your opinion, you are entitled to it. I (and alot of others) do not agree at all.

When I said Sabattis are $5,500.00 tops, I meant the actual cost of the rifle.
It is not been long enough to judge how Sabattis will depreciate. Who knows whether or not such "mods" will improve the rifle or not (depends on who does it) and if the prospective buyer perfers a "standard" Sabatti. Or one with better wood finish (anything would be better than what's on them now) and a steel grip-cap, new recoil pad and possibly a recoil reducer, and or any other "mods".

I've done a little math, and I with all that I mentioned it still wouldn't be $2,000.00 worth of "mods". Even if it were, such "mods" would IMPROVE THE RIFLE! Getting a Sabatti "that needs mods" and modifying it as you go is a heap better than having no double rifle at all.

Just my opinion.

Nemo,

Having a good smith make the modifications Peter suggested; refinish with a hand rubbed oil finish, re-cut grip checkering, reshape the forearm and re-checker and oil finish, as well as other mods like putting on a decent recoil pad, working over the triggers, fitting a steel grip cap, installing a mercury stick, etc and you could easily be in for at least an additional $1,500 or more.

Scotch Bonnet,

$1,500.00 sure, a full $2,000.00, I don't think so.

Even if it was, like I said, starting with a Sabatti a modifying it when you have the cash, beats the dickens out of not having a double rifle.

So regardless of all the variables y'all want to throw out there my (our) point still stands.

In short, if I (we) wanted another bolt action we would have got one, and a Sabatti is better than no DR at all!


But that's just me...

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
Scotch Bonnet,

$1,500.00 sure, a full $2,000.00, I don't think so.

Even if it was, like I said, starting with a Sabatti a modifying it when you have the cash, beats the dickens out of not having a double rifle.

So regardless of all the variables y'all want to throw out there my (our) point still stands.

In short, if I (we) wanted another bolt action we would have got one, and a Sabatti is better than no DR at all!


But that's just me...

Nemo,
I don't think you understand where I am now, I get it.....a double. A used K or Merkel or a Chapious is about 7-9. that's where he will be with his Sabatti.

I really really am not trying to belabor this but at some point the rifle isn't worth it to get it up to standard. What ever standard is.

I do understand the DR thing, like I said I own three.

Just sayin

quote:

like I said, starting with a Sabatti a modifying it when you have the cash, beats the dickens out of not having a double rifle.

Sure, I understand this, completely understand wanting a double, but might it not make more sense to wait and save up a couple more thousand dollars and buy a rifle that won't need anything done to it, a rifle you will be thrilled with and proud to own, and that you know will hold its value?

Guys, I think I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down.


After all my trouble I'm begining to cool my jets on the Sabatti arguement.

I think in short I am just one unfortunate fellow, to have gotten 2 duds. MOST everybody else who has them think well of them, considering what they are (I am not bashing Sabatti now).

No, I'm not changing "sides", simply speaking as I find (at the moment).



I hear your point also, namely -why not save up and get something better-, again in short, I (or we) simply don't have that kind of money to spend on a gun!

If I had the money, I would NEVER take a Sabatti over a Merkle, Kreighoff, Chapuis, of equal caliber. Much less a Searcy, Heym, or V.C.!

Nemo,

Best wishes to you whatever you decide to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Scotch Bonnet:
Nemo,

Best wishes to you whatever you decide to do.

+1

Steve

quote:

hear your point also, namely -why not save up and get something better-, again in short, I (or we) simply don't have that kind of money to spend on a gun!

but you have 5500 plus 1500 + to upgrade it ?
That makes no logical sense what so ever