After waiting a long time for my new VC, I finally got the call from Ken that it was ready and just in time as Larry Shores and I depart 8/29 for some elephant action. Assuming Zim is still open.

Ken wanted me to take delivery. I insisted on the advice of Cal, Mr. Shores, Mr. Jines, Mr. Williams and Double Don to send it on to JJ Perodeau.

Boy am I glad. The regulation was off by 3"and 2 and 3/4". Exactly how does that happen on a custom rifle? I am new to this but I think that is rather poor form.

JJ has already re-regulated the gun form me so it save having me send it back to France, but I have to say I am pretty damn disappointed.

On another hand this is the second job JJ has done for me and ll I can say is that he is the MAN.

Jeff

Yes, he is.

Glad you got it back in time Jeff, but I'm in 100% agreement with you on this being disappointing in the first place. My custom VC also had to be reregulated by JJ. I'm pleased that VC picked up the expense of having this done and getting it corrected in the proper manner and quickly, but the necessity of having to have these guns repaired upon initial delivery is unsatisfactory. Ken, Jerome, and all the others I've met in association with VC are great guys, but the factory needs to get this shit straightened out ASAP.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Glad you got it back in time Jeff, but I'm in 100% agreement with you on this being disappointing in the first place. My custom VC also had to be reregulated by JJ. I'm pleased that VC picked up the expense of having this done and getting it corrected in the proper manner and quickly, but the necessity of having to have these guns repaired upon initial delivery is unsatisfactory. Ken, Jerome, and all the others I've met in association with VC are great guys, but the factory needs to get this shit straightened out ASAP.

Todd,

You, me and Mr.Shores all took delivery of custom doubles that were unshootable.NOT a good track record.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Glad you got it back in time Jeff, but I'm in 100% agreement with you on this being disappointing in the first place. My custom VC also had to be reregulated by JJ. I'm pleased that VC picked up the expense of having this done and getting it corrected in the proper manner and quickly, but the necessity of having to have these guns repaired upon initial delivery is unsatisfactory. Ken, Jerome, and all the others I've met in association with VC are great guys, but the factory needs to get this shit straightened out ASAP.

Todd,

You, me and Mr.Shores all took delivery of custom doubles that were unshootable.NOT a good track record.

Jeff

Yep. They need to sort out this quality control issue YESTERDAY!

Hmmm. Was planning on ordering a 450.

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Hmmm. Was planning on ordering a 450.

I wouldn't recommend canceling that plan at this point. I've owned two VC's and only had an issue with one. I think Larry has owned a couple, maybe 3 and had an issue with one. Jeff had an issue now with his first and only 1. It's a small sample but troubling in that the three of us know each other and all experienced some issues with new rifles. The fact that we know each other makes the sample group even smaller in my opinion. In other words, are there similar issues amongst others that don't post here that we aren't hearing about?

On the positive side, VC corrected the mistakes without further expense to us as the new owners. And they corrected the issues quickly and professionally. No slight of hand backdoor procedures or extra expense born by the rifle owner ala Sabatti, but they damn sure need to address this QA issue quickly or else the damage is going to have been done.

I'll add one more comment and that is that at this point, I'm 100% satisfied with my VC rifle ... now.

Sad....you pay a good bit of money to send it off to be reregulated...VC needs to really get there stuff together...

Ed

I have purchased two V-C rifles to date, and both shoot exceptionally well. Ken Buch provides service second to none, and Jerome stands behind his products. Unless Ken and / or V-C stop standing by their rifles, I would not be too concerned. I also have a .375 flanged double on the way, and I have high confidence it will shoot well.

I did in fact have one with problems. It would not shoot. Emphasis on not as in not at all.

After 6 months of checking this, that and the other it ended up the problem was simple. One chamber was not cut deep enough.

I have been asked how they managed to check regulation from the factory with this issue? This becomes almost comical. Factory Hornady ammo had rims that were less than normal tolerance.

Once I got it fixed, it shot great. it was a serious elephant gun. I just bought a new one from Ken. It shoots fine.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Ken Buch provides service second to none, and Jerome stands behind his products.

I agree with Admiral Dave's statement here 100%.

Is their a problem in France with DR makers? My 8mm Chapuis came in last year shooting into 4 inches at 50 yards with the correct Norma Ammo and no hand load would do any better. After I had paid extra for 100 meter regulation.
It has been back there since last July; now over one year. I am not getting a good feeling about this one.

Wow. VC is now in the same category as Sabatti concerning quality issues. And how much more expensive is a VC than a Sabatti?

quote:

Originally posted by INTJ:
Wow. VC is now in the same category as Sabatti concerning quality issues. And how much more expensive is a VC than a Sabatti?

Yeah, you know guys this stuff wouldn't happen if you'd just buy a Merkel

Sorry, just couldn't resist...

Ok - so I can't resist either. Here are a few 50 yard targets from my V-C Imperial in 450 3 ¼ NE. The targets in the photo actually show up larger than actual size. All 2 shot sequences were ¾" center to center or better. I would say the regulation is pretty good.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Ok - so I can't resist either. Here are a few 50 yard targets from my V-C Imperial in 450 3 ¼ NE. The targets in the photo actually show up larger than actual size. All 2 shot sequences were ¾" center to center or better. I would say the regulation is pretty good.

Merkel?

Just grab a dremel.

Bwanna et al;

These issue of inaccurate new rifles are terrible to hear about. I am really surprised that a company with just broad acceptance of high quality is producing dangerous game rifles in such a condition.

I suggest that one of you chaps send an email to Verney-Carron with the link to this discussion. There email contact is: email@verneycarron.com

regards;
Transvaal

Correction: V-C email address is:email@verney-carron.com

Transvaal

My experiences with V-C is 100%.
Ken B. needs to chime in here and clear the air.
Cal

I received my VC 450 NE in December last year. The test target from factory was exceptional. Have just shot 4 rounds with it due to shoulder problems, but regulation was still very good taken into consideration that I am a rookie With regard to handle double rifles.

I will try to post photoes of test target from factory and field target of shot no 3 and 4.







Hmmm... got small photoes, but I hope you see the holes

The Field target has 4 shots - first two up right shot free hand by a friend of mine on 50 meters. The next two shot by me on 25 meters free hand. As you might see it was a 10 point center and a 9 point. Distance is about 1,5 inch. To be my first two shots I was pleased to see how it worked out.


Morten

I struggle to understand this regulation issue with doubles, there has to be some logical answer:

I assume that there is a test target supplied with each rifle with details of the ammunition used to regulate the rifle?

The test target may only show a left and a right shot but there must have been more shots fired by the maker during the regulation process so the gun must have been reasonably 'bedded' in terms of metal to metal and metal to wood contact during this process?

If the maker achieves the regulation shown on the test target then what changes in transit to the point that most of you guys are receiving at least one rifle out of the few some of you own that is not regulated on receipt from the maker?

Once you have the rifle regulated by the original maker or someone else, does it always stay in regulation?

If it does stay in regulation then why did it not when originally shipped from the maker?

When received from the maker does it show regulation with the first few shots you fire and then lose regulation? If so this would indicate a bedding in issue would it not i.e. final regulation should not be done until a rifle has fired quite a few shots?

Gee wizz, almost without exception today the cheapest mass produced plastic fantastic bolt gun will pretty much group minute of angle out of the box. How do you double guys put up with the crap service you get when paying the sort of dollars you do?

How long would you keep buying a Cadi, a Merc or a Beemer if it was parked up on the side of the road with the hood up just after you left the dealer?

In the past, I've noted that Chapuis (and most others, I'm sure) regulates his double rifles, benched, with forend resting in a fork (sometimes, they did it without forend in place, resting the barrels). This is all wrong of course, for the weapon reacts differently than when hand held. The right way to bench rest a double is by holding the rifle and resting hands, wrists, elbows, etc. but no part of the gun itself. As told before, British gunmakers use(d) a standing rest to approximate field conditions as close as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
My experiences with V-C is 100%.
Ken B. needs to chime in here and clear the air.
Cal

Ken has been 100% to deal with. My VC is on it's way to its loving new home. I in no way posted to run down VC as a company, but in all fairness this was my experience.

Jeff

quote:

Ken B. needs to chime in here and clear the air.

He's in the Caprivi with Karl Stumpfe, I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I struggle to understand this regulation issue with doubles, there has to be some logical answer:

There is a logical answer to each of your questions!

quote:

#1 I assume that there is a test target supplied with each rifle with details of the ammunition used to regulate the rifle?

#1 Most test targets indicate only the bullet weight but not velocity, or even which of the two holes came from which barrel.
Before we go farther let me say the targets supplied with a new double rifle are useless, and are nothing more than window dressing. They certainly do not indicate proper regulation and tell you nothing more than the fact that two shots hit the target!

quote:

#2 The test target may only show a left and a right shot but there must have been more shots fired by the maker during the regulation process so the gun must have been reasonably 'bedded' in terms of metal to metal and metal to wood contact during this process?

If the maker achieves the regulation shown on the test target then what changes in transit to the point that most of you guys are receiving at least one rifle out of the few some of you own that is not regulated on receipt from the maker?

#2 You are correct that there was certainly more than two shots fired during the regulation process. As stated above the test target is not a true indication of proper regulation. However even if the shots were labeled properly as to the barrels each came from, and if it listed the brand of ammo used to regulate there could still be a need for some fine tuning of the loads by the new owner to get it right. The ammo may have been from a old batch of ammo while the new owner is using new stock and the regulation is a little off. Most old hands in the double rifle world know that to get the best from your double rifle is with carefully worked up handloads!

quote:

#3 Once you have the rifle regulated by the original maker or someone else, does it always stay in regulation?

#3 Once the rifle is regulated properly it should remain regulated as long as the owner uses a regulating load. That is if the rifle is not fitted with adjustable regulation. Most quality double rifles especially when chambered for dangerous game cartridges are made with fixed regulation. However no matter how well a double is regulated it will not shoot to regulation with just any old round of the same caliber. The rifle depends on the proper ammo to shoot to the built in regulation.

quote:

#4 If it does stay in regulation then why did it not when originally shipped from the maker?

#4 Because the ones mentioned in this thread had to be physically re-regulated I would say the rifle didn’t become un-regulated but was not regulated properly by the maker and the test target not worth the paper it is printed on. In this case VC made the rifle GOOD for the customer, but I agree with Todd, they better get their act together or their reputation will go down the drain!

The VC doubles are beautifully made and fitted and if delivered with proper regulation are very nice double rifles and a bargain for the price paid!
I predict VC has a new regulator on staff as we speak!
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This reminds me of two things, the Tailhook Inquisition and the old adage of " you can build a thousand bridges, but you suck on little dick and will they call you a bridge builder?"....

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
This reminds me of two things, the Tailhook Inquisition and the old adage of " you can build a thousand bridges, but you suck on little dick and will they call you a bridge builder?"....

Jorge, that was funny.

Regulation is everything. I offer the following based upon working in the safari industry in South Africa for the past seven years and am also in the wildlife ranching business. Graduated from the SA National Professional Hunting School. Most clients with doubles arrive with a S/S. However, occasionally someone brings a O/U (primarily Heym or Blaser). Eventually the subject of regulation is broached. I have not heard one regulation difficulty from an O/U user. I have harvested cape buffalo and lion with .450 NE S/S. But as someone who uses a DR as a working tool, I would not hesitate to make my next DR (I already own 3 S/S) an O/U. No doubt the S/S has it for elegance. I shoot Vintager shotgun matches with S/S...but all my other competition guns and field guns are O/U. Perhaps the cure to regulation is the O/U? Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Eagle One:
Regulation is everything. I offer the following based upon working in the safari industry in South Africa for the past seven years and am also in the wildlife ranching business. Graduated from the SA National Professional Hunting School. Most clients with doubles arrive with a S/S. However, occasionally someone brings a O/U (primarily Heym or Blaser). Eventually the subject of regulation is broached. I have not heard one regulation difficulty from an O/U user. I have harvested cape buffalo and lion with .450 NE S/S. But as someone who uses a DR as a working tool, I would not hesitate to make my next DR (I already own 3 S/S) an O/U. No doubt the S/S has it for elegance. I shoot Vintager shotgun matches with S/S...but all my other competition guns and field guns are O/U. Perhaps the cure to regulation is the O/U? Just a thought.

O/U DR!

For DG no less!!

Heresy!!!

I believe Ken is out of the country for a couple of weeks. Hold your horses until he gets back.

Damn, that was funny Jorge...

Thanks Mac, very informative answers.

eagle one, I am not sure what is magical about an O/U except that the ones in a lighter caliber (I have one in 9.3x74R) can be "regulated" by adjusting the lower barrel. My O/U is a Tikka . Some may have an allen key adjustment at the end of the barrel. I have not seen this kind of adjustment available in an O/U in the heavier calibers ie. 450 NE on up. I have 3 double rifles in SxS configuration, an Owen, Kreighoff and a Blaser and not had any problems with finding a load that is up to specs. and provides excellent regulation.
You are correct in that most folks think that the SxS double rifle is more "traditional", so they look down on anything that isn't. Witness the religious burning at the stake of the Kreighoff combi-cocking mechanism!
Peter.

You pay HOW MUCH for a V-C double? … and only about 30% have problems? Say, that's some high quality firearm, gentlemen.

Why, my cheap Ruger #1 in the dreaded .375 Ruger caliber works ALL the time, can put as many bullets through touching holes as my old eyes can see, and will probably be running fine 50 years from now.

And, yes, I'vs been to Africa with it. Worked as advertised.

If you want a double that doesn't cost like an H&H, but is accurate and works - contact Butch Searcy - 760-762-6131 - and go shooting, not regulating.

quote:

Originally posted by poprivit:
You pay HOW MUCH for a V-C double? … and only about 30% have problems? Say, that's some high quality firearm, gentlemen.

Why, my cheap Ruger #1 in the dreaded .375 Ruger caliber works ALL the time, can put as many bullets through touching holes as my old eyes can see, and will probably be running fine 50 years from now.

And, yes, I'vs been to Africa with it. Worked as advertised.

If you want a double that doesn't cost like an H&H, but is accurate and works - contact Butch Searcy - 760-762-6131 - and go shooting, not regulating.

How many do you own?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:


O/U DR!

For DG no less!!

Heresy!!!

.................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by poprivit:
You pay HOW MUCH for a V-C double? … and only about 30% have problems? Say, that's some high quality firearm, gentlemen.

Why, my cheap Ruger #1 in the dreaded .375 Ruger caliber works ALL the time, can put as many bullets through touching holes as my old eyes can see, and will probably be running fine 50 years from now.

And, yes, I'vs been to Africa with it. Worked as advertised.

If you want a double that doesn't cost like an H&H, but is accurate and works - contact Butch Searcy - 760-762-6131 - and go shooting, not regulating.

Poprivit, I love Ruger No1s, and have several in different calibers. However, No1s are not without their own problems that often need a fix by the new owner. Many have accuracy issues that require a fix by installing a set screw under the forearm anchor to cause pressure on the bottom of the barrel to slow the harmonics down to tighten groups on the target.

So you were lucky to get one that didn't need work for a rifle that came from the factory needing to be fixed by the buyer!

The building of a double rifle is a far more complex undertaking than building a single shot falling block rifle with only one barrel. It is rare to find a single barreled rifle that can't be built entirely by machines, and simply put together in an assembly line fashion! A double rifle made the same way wouldn't be worth much more than scrap iron price.
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