quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
"... whether or not you take your big bore double to the range with reduced loads to impress the "Tacticool" crowd as "the guy down there shooting the elephant gun..."

"...The best, mind you the BEST, any of us could manage was 3.5 inches at 25 yards with the average being more around the 4 to 4.5" range. Acceptable? Maybe marginally but when we moved out to 50 yards, the spread doubled with the BEST being around 6 inches but more often 8"..."

"... when paying the type of money one of these rifles commands..."

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
"... whether or not you take your big bore double to the range with reduced loads to impress the "Tacticool" crowd as "the guy down there shooting the elephant gun..."

"...The best, mind you the BEST, any of us could manage was 3.5 inches at 25 yards with the average being more around the 4 to 4.5" range. Acceptable? Maybe marginally but when we moved out to 50 yards, the spread doubled with the BEST being around 6 inches but more often 8"..."

"... when paying the type of money one of these rifles commands..."

Hello Tod Williams,

Thanks for your reply.

Contrary to your insinuation, I belong to a private club. We don't have a Tacticool croud. I consider my self a "learning shooter" - I don't impress anyone.

I would have a couple of questions about your experience: What did your groups measure "after" JJ re-regulated your rifle? At what range did you shoot your elephant(s) and/or your buffalo?

And you don't have to tell me about "the type of money one of these rifles commands" - I know that first hand. . . . http://forums.accuratereloadin...0101804/m/2031018312

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello All,

I just purchased my first Verney Carron Double rifle, a 600 NE. I've only been a VC owner for about a month.

I've resisted jumping in on this discussion, hoping that someone else might clear the air about double rifles and their regulation. No one has, so I'm going to chime in. I'll start with some background info about myself. I state these things not to brag, but to tell you that I'm not some kind of "Forum-Expert" that likes to throw around his opinions, without any actual shooting experience. God knows we have enough of them.

I'll start by saying I've never hunted dangerous game, I've only hunted in the U.S. and Canada. I'm a late bloomer when it comes to double rifles, buying my first Double less than 8 years ago. I've only owned 17 Double Rifles total, and still own 12 of them, having sold 5 over the years. The calibers of my Doubles cover a wide range from .30 cal to .80 cal. They are; 300 Savage - 8mm lebel - 8x57R - 35 Win - 9.3x74R (3) - 375x2-1/2 - 45-70 (2) - 500 bpe - 577-500 bpe (2) - 20-577 NE - 600 Express - 600 Nitro Express - 10 Bore.

I've fired over 1,700 rounds in my double rifles since I've owned them ( 90% of the shooting was over a chronograph ) and I have carefully documented the data for each rifle. This is a habit I developed from being a Reasearh & Developement Engineer trained in accurately recording data in Lab notebooks. I've even sent ammo to have it pressure tested, to keep my handloading within safe pressure limits. I shoot about 6,000 rounds a year, in competition and practice, with various rifles - mostly in vintage single-shot Schuetzen rifles. I'm also a self-trained gunsmith of over 40 years experience with my works being published in Gun Digest, Handloaders Digest, Guns Illustrated, Cartridges of the World, Handgunners Digest, an other shooting publications.

As far as my 17 double rifles go, I've only had the need to re-regulate "one" of them, that being an 1890's Lefaucheux in 8mm Lebel cal. It was shooting 16" crossed at 50 yards. It was sent to JJ and he did a marvelous job of re-regulating it with no sign that the 1890's patina had been altered. Of my other Double Rifles, my Dan'l Fraser 9.3x74R was the next to be troublesome. It was shooting 6" - 8" apart vertical at 50 yds. Although many told me to just send it to JJ, I used the opportunity to learn from this rifle. I learned that different powders, primers, bullets, seating depth, different fillers, and ambient temperature, all impacted the regulation - "even at the same measured velocity". It took over 4 dozen experiments to learn this, and now the rifle shoots point of aim at 50 yds into a 1-1/2" group. With iron sites, my satisfaction level is actually 2" because that's about as good as I can hold with my 64 year old eyes.

Now, here's my point. After all this experimentation, I had my friend shoot this rifle, and he could't achieve the same results I did. He was a good shooter and was experienced with shooting double rifles, but for him, it shot "high" and into 2 distinct groups of 1" each, right and left, about 4" apart. When he handed the rifle back to me, it again shot a 1-1/2" cluster. Yes, each session was about 20 minutes apart with adequate cooling time between 4 shot strings, and all shooting was done standing - with padded arm rests.

The reason for this variation is simple, "he" was not "me". He weighed different, he was a different height, he had a different muscular build, he had a different grip on the rifle, etc., etc., etc. Just to prove my point, next time at the range, try shooting your double rifle with a "loose" grip, and then shoot it with a "tight" grip, and see how it regulates.

I find it a little unsettling that one can be so critical about a Company's regulation of a brand new double rifle. Regulation that is done half way around the World, with who knows what ammo, by who knows what man, of who knows what physical features, at who knows what air density and temperature - all factors determinate in the regulation process. Yes, some say that given a bullet weight at a given velocity, regulation should be the same - not necessarily. I have documented identical velocities and identical bullet weights, shooting 6" different heights with a 0.50" change in bullet seating depth, and similarly with bullets of different shape.

It would be interesting to have VC's regulator, come here with "his" ammo, and have "him" shoot the rifle, to see how it regulates. I find it absolutely amazing that VC stands behind their product to the extent that they would pick-up the tab for re-regulation. Bully for them! That fact alone will make me a loyal VC customer.

quote:

Obviously this is a shot taken at me. First I have and do hunt a lot of dangerous game. So a rifle that crosses 3 inches at 50 yards is of no use to me for brain shooting an elephant in the jess.

I am glad you are so pleased with your VC. I am not. I wisely had it delivered to gunsmith JJ Peredeau rather than taking delivery of it. It was JJ who determined that it was crossing with Hornady DGX loads which were the same loads it was regulated with. JJ reregulated the gun for VC. Unfortunately for me the front sight fell off in transit to Zim and we had to make a little bush medicine to rig a sight. So back to JJ it is going. So I can forward you JJ's contact information if you care to critique his shooting. I don't care for your insinuations or your attitude.

Best,

Jeff

quote:

My comments were not directed at you.

Buck

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
[QUOTE] ...is that one cannot be expert at everything.

...I do not want to field stupid remarks.

I can't believe I'm reading this after the last few years of Shootaway's posts on double rifles and shooting in general. WOW!
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

You think they are trickier because you can't pull each trigger at a time? Or is it because they have two barrels?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one .

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

You think they are trickier because you can't pull each trigger at a time? Or is it because they have two barrels?

Because they are harder to put back together with a Leatherman once some idiot takes one apart.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

I will believe it when I see a picture or a video.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

I will believe it when I see a picture or a video.

quote:

I have always taught you people about rifles and shooting.I showed you which is the best double too.
People are starting to see things my way more and more but they refuse to give me credit or aknowledge where it all came from.I don't care about that and know that is just jealousy.I remember all the stupid things everyone on here believed a few years ago on shooting and cleaning their rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

I will believe it when I see a picture or a video.

I will send you an autographed copy of the video when T-Snake finishes it. You and Richie can discuss it it November. Do you want it signed "To my friend George"; or "To my friend Shootaway"?
Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

I will believe it when I see a picture or a video.

I will send you an autographed copy of the video when T-Snake finishes it. You and Richie can discuss it it November. Do you want it signed "To my friend George"; or "To my friend Shootaway"?
Jeff

If you were actually hunting with Richard and not staying in the truck while others searched I would like to see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When it comes to rifles shooting accurately the saying "It's not over till it's over" comes to mind. Let me remind you of what I said before and that is that one cannot be expert at everything.
It is possible and very likely that the rifle in question was regulated properly at VC but when it left the regulating room conditions changed.I will not say exactly what I believed happen because I do not want to field stupid remarks.I think JJ received a perfect rifle but did not test it in the same conditions that were used to regulate it.
I think JJ in a sense just took it apart put it back just as it was but then shot it under the conditions it was first regulated under and got the real results.Those whose rifles have alway shot well from the start,have always shot it under those conditions-mostly without knowing so,IMO.
Double rifles are not like bolt action rifles.They are trickier.

Maybe you could liaise and consult with JJ on doubles from time to time . . . he could undoubtedly learn a thing or two about doubles from you. I suspect he did not even realize they were trickier than bolt action rifles. Great point.

I was just going to let it slide Mike. But then there is that whole Searcy thing.

Explain what happened Shootaway.

Jeff

So Bwana did you get your ele in Dande? I thought I was the only unlucky one.

Two piped a bull and a tuskless proper in the jess.

Thanks for asking

Jeff

I will believe it when I see a picture or a video.

I will send you an autographed copy of the video when T-Snake finishes it. You and Richie can discuss it it November. Do you want it signed "To my friend George"; or "To my friend Shootaway"?
Jeff

If you were actually hunting with Richard and not staying in the truck while others searched I would like to see it.

Give me your address.