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Fairly new to the Double scene, I sat down today for the first real shoot of the new .470NE. Shot 500 grn TSX off the bench at 50 yards. Open sites on the Searcy. What do you consider a good group for an open site double at 50yds? | ||
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I claim no expertise with doubles, but of the three I've owned - all 500NE - I only shoot them seriously at 25 yards. At that range with open sights and old eyes, I expect to put 4 rounds into a 4" bullseye. That equals minute of Elephant. In my case, I would prefer my shots on DG, regardless of the rifle or handgun, to be under 25 yards whenever possible. Last years Ele was taken at 15 yards (measured) and the year before the Ele was shot at 25 yards. My longest shot on Ele was 25-30 yards. My longest on Buff was under 50 yards and most closer to 25 yards. My large cats were all at 50 yards or slightly less. Croc and Hippos averaged less than 50 yards. Rhino was 35 yards. Hope that is helpful, and best of luck with your Searcy. I'm sure those more experienced with DRs than I will provide additional info for you. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Butch Searcy builds his rifles to place two shots within two inches at 50 yards. My 450/400 and 470NE Searcy rifles have no trouble doing just that. I find that my accuracy in shooting my doubles is most dependent on my ability to see (and align) the sights. At my age (60), going to an RMR sight has really improved my ability to place those 2 shots from my double the width of the barrels apart at 50 yards. I also agree with Lionhunter. Most of my practice with a double is offhand at 25 yards because that is the most realistic hunting practice. | |||
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With iron sights, good eyes and a proper target a properly regulated double should shoot two groups overlapped in a 2 to 2 1/2 group. I've had guns that will do better than that and some wosre. I'd say if the two barrels aren't keeping all shots in a 4 inch group at 50 yds that the load needs to be tweaked. That is if the person shooting the gun can hold a good group at 50 yds with irons. All that being said most shots with a double are closer than 25 yards hopefully. If you can find a load that puts both barrels within 1 to 2 inches at 25 yards you should be fine. The guns with a proper load will most of the time out shoot what the shooter is capable of. Sam | |||
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Thanks guys. Here is a group of 8 from the bench at 50yds...  And the last two of the day, fast as I could, freehand from 50yds...  After 14 rounds my shoulder was getting a bit tender! | |||
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That's minute of Cape Buffalo for sure! I might make a rear sight adjustment to center your group, but other than that, I would say your rifle is definitely shooting up to standards. | |||
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For the old boat anchors I shoot I'm happy with a target that looks like a shotgun pattern. Cheers all, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Those are horrible groups. It's completely unsafe! Please, send me the rifle before something bad happens. I'll dispose of it for you. Then ill run down to cabelas and get you a safe Sabatti. Then we know you will be ok!  Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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Here are two groups, one for a double in .303 British at 100 yards from bench. The other is for a .500/.450 at 50 yards from bench. Have since moved the .303 rear sight to center the group. Regards, Tim   | |||
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 Verney-Carron, 450gr CEBs 50yds, 2145 fps USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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4 rounds with my Searcy PH model in .470 NE, 50 yards from a standing rest with elbow support. 500 gr WLSP over 106 gr of IMR 4831. Norma Brass Fed 215 Primer. Stock iron sights. O O O O L2L1R2R1 Both of the Searcy rifles I've owned have been perfectly capable of this if I was up to the task on the given day.  | |||
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Like I said yesterday, will be loading the 106 of 4831 next and see what Dave's Chapuis does with it first. We'll get 'em dialed in. BTW, were you holding whole bead at 6 o'clock? | |||
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Sat down today with a better rest at the bench... 6 rounds at 50yds. Will make a move left and leave it.  | |||
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That is some fine shooting there sir!! | |||
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A rifle builder has to be a shooter himself.That way he knows what is acceptable,good,very good... Furthermore,I feel that he should be a very good shooter.I read somewhere that Holland of Holland and Holland was a shooter to begin with. | |||
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 I finally get it. Taking this statement of yours and looking at your target here: http://forums.accuratereloadin...871069581#9871069581 it all becomes clear now. You can't shoot worth a damn and therefor don't know what the hell you speak of. I get it! I get it!  | |||
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I dont know what you find wrong with that group.I am going out there again today to shoot another one-hopefully.If the sights were more precise and I could stand on solid ground instead of 3 feet of snow perhaps it would be tighter. | |||
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EXACTLY my point. But please do ... keep digging!  | |||
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My Merkel .500 NE at 25 yards with 570 gr CEB BBW #13 over 96 gr of R 15. Edit: not that it matters...but that group was shot off sticks at ~35 yds...checked my notes. Those that say L1 NF and R1 NF were some old North Forks I had loaded and shot them for fouling shots as I was shooting a pristinely cleaned barrel set that day.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Even a broken rifle groups at 25yds.They should be one holers at 25yds. | |||
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 I am just not quite up to your level Shootaway. Maybe...one day I will get there.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Shot this one this morning, two CEBs and two Woodleighs, 50 yds:  USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Then why do you shoot patterns instead of groups?? | |||
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Surestrike, You probably just need to send me that Searcy so I can see if it was a fluke or......... Nice shooting guys. | |||
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Has anyone ever posted a target that was not 5 star on AR? I sometimes wonder if half are true. I caught Todd shooting them a foot wide at 50yds in the video. | |||
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Yes, some fellow that goes by the moniker shootaway. To quote Churchill, the fellow is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Mike | |||
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Shootaway: I have not figured out how to use photobucket and put pics on AR but I can tell you my 4-bore double prints a one shot, one inch group every time at any distance. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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 Well said Cal! | |||
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He still won't get it... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Four shots with my Searcy 450-400 at 50 yards:  | |||
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It evident you weren't shooting in Canada, UEG ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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George, There's really no getting around the fact that you are just a pratt, is there? That video was shot to show the speed and technique of using a rifle with extractors compared to ejectors, not regulation of the rifle. In that type of demo, I was shooting for center mass, not holding a tight 6 O'Clock sight picture. But to get technical, the black circle target was 10" in diameter, meaning that one of the wide shots was 4" right and the other was 4.5" right. Hardly a foot wide. Ever heard of the practice technique of hitting a pie plate when speed shooting. That demo would certainly qualify. One of these days, maybe you'll actually show us a target that backs up your trash talk of how great you are with open sights. So far, your targets look more like something shot with a shotgun using Improved Cylinder chokes! We long ago gave up on your ability to show us a decent video demonstration. Your skills with a camera are only slightly bested by your onscreen speaking abilities!! Case in point, your Honey Badger video!!! What an onscreen personality you are! Just in case anyone missed it:  | |||
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Todd, I thought you were my friend. To suggest I watch that video was simply ...  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Ole Shooter is good, ain't he!!  Just ask him, he'll tell ya!!!  He damn sure can't show ya!!!  | |||
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Ignoring the shootaway issues, which I am trying my damnedest to do - and yes, I know it's difficult to ignore such idiocy - I wonder when shooting DR became a game of accuracy akin to benchrest rifles? Anything within 4" at 25 yards on DG is DRT. Having said that, I just measured Fridays range session and find the following first 5 rounds from my 500NE shooting Federal Premium Safari 570gr Barnes Solids at 25 yards: R-L-R = 1.25" 1 10X R-L = .75" 1 10X I shoot R-L-R as a reloading drill once each session. The Federal loads are NOT the most accurate from my DR. It really likes the CEB 570gr solids over 93.5gr/RL15. That's the load Todd developed for my rifle when it was his. HEY TODD: Watching that vid of the idiot from the north should be mandatory for everyone prior to replying to any of his posts. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Each time I read posts of you gents shooting this time of year I get a bit jealous as up here in Alaska I put my rifles away and don't shoot for seven months. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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jjbull: You're right. Vegas is a better place to be shooting at this time of the year! LOL!  LionHunter: I can't help it! Blame Butch for the accuracy!  | |||
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I hate to tell you Cal but it was 70 degrees here today!! I spent about 3 hours at the ranch shooting some "Tacti-Cool" weapons this afternoon. Did a little work with the new 454 Casull as well that I'll be toting as back up while up your way this fall. You should come down and join us for some winter shooting in Texas. Shorts, T-shirts, and flip flops are the uniform of the day in February!!!  | |||
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