Now, can we please have a civil discussion about this..? I would like to hear from owners experiences..good or bad..

I know some have been sent back for additional work to function properly, but so have V-C´s, Merkels, Krieghoff´s, etc. etc..

And please...try to be objective and leave national pride out of the equation..shall we..?

Literally the best bang for the buck -
if you want tight group and regulation, say it, it will happen

order what you want -- there's ZERO comparison between a mass produced rifle and one that is built to your spec.

don't dawdle - get on it ..

I have had my share of issue with doubles .. ONE of them the maker cares.. ONE and that's Butch

I’ve owned two of them. One was a field grade in .470NE tbe other is PH model in .470NE. Here’s the good.

They were both extremely accurate, well regulated rifles. I have never seen another double that equals them in accuracy or regulation. Both were capable of shooting sub 1” groups at 50 yards with 4 shots, two from each barrel. I would get 4” groups at 100 yards all the time.

The first rifle had pretty average fit and finish. The second one was very good.

The bad. My first gun started opening on firing. To be fair I shot the hell out of that rifle. It was my first double and I went full tilt on learning to shoot a double. I fired over 2,000 rounds through it mostly in field conditions. It was my “truck” gun and I used it hard and put it away wet. But none the less it started to have issues. Butch being the guy that he is credited me my purchase price on that beat up rifle on a trade for the PH model.

The PH model had some issues from the start. It came to me with a knot in the wood right in the neck of the
pistol grip. And just as I suspected it cracked the stock right through that knot after about 50 rounds. Butch replaced the stock free of charge. Then the day before I was headed to Zimbabwe the rifle snapped a main spring on the right barrel! So I didn’t get to take it to Zim on that hunt. That was in 2008 and I haven’t had anymore issues since then. The rifle remains solid and accurate to this day. In fact it’s so accurate that one of my favorite stupid human tricks is to bang steel plates at 500 yards with it. Busting long range steel with an open sighted double impresses the unwashed masses and I get a kick out of it.

So in summary my take on Searcy Rifles is that they tend to be some of the most accurate double rifles on the market. They can be hit or miss in fit and finish but seem to have gotten better with time. They are not trouble free but none of them are. Searcy has turned out some very nice rifles and he’s let some turds out of his shop too.

If I was going to buy a new factory gun today, I’d look real hard at the newest English pattern Heym rifles. However I just heard of a new Heym that had to go back to the factory for multiple bad issue like it wouldn’t go bang when you pulled the trigger. There is no such thing as a trouble free rifle. They all have issues, some more than others. It seems to me that Searcy rifles have fewer problems than Merkle rifles overall, but that is based on nothing more than my observation.

Literally the best DR for the money; paraphrasing from above. I only have one, a 450, but it is better regulated than some others I have and is well built. I would have no qualms in another one for any purpose. And they are balanced with the weight between the hands and light muzzles. Unlike Kreighoffs, which are also good values, but some of them have balance issues, all being made on the same, very small frame.

Butch is a great guy.
That said -
Have had 2 both needed ribs redone.
Know of a few others as well
Each to their own

A Searcy .470 was my first DR, which I had made for my first ele hunt. I've since had 2 Chapuis, 2 Heym and 1 Sabatti.

The Searcy never saw Africa, and I'll never own one again. From day one the forearm took excessive time and force to remove once the rifle was assembled. After a couple months of practice, the safety would re-engage after the first shot, which made for an entertaining second - shot yank and flinch with no bang. Then the stock cracked, followed by a complete loss of regulation whereby neither barrel could hit a 12" target at 20 yards. It eventually became apparent that the barrels had separated (and to be clear, I never once shot more than 6 total rounds - 3 down each barrel - before allowing it to cool to ambient temp). After this return and "fix", which was the 3rd or 4th return, the barrels separated again after 12 total shots - which once again was limited to 3 down each barrel before allowing the barrels to cool to ambient temp. The rifle went back and a refund was returned. I now have 2 Heyms after experimenting with Chapuis (which were problem free) and Sabatti (I got a dremel - regulated double and Cabelas issued a refund).

There's a reason people know so much about Butch's "warranty", and its not a good reason.

For my personal taste...they are too heavy, bulky, and blocky to suit my tastes.

I owned one...no problems but did not shoot much either.

They are just not my style. I like petite splinter forends, sleek actions, not too thick of barrels at the chamber...generally fast handling doubles.

I have dealt with smiths/gunmakers on about five occasions-that is on what you can call high dollar guns.
The only person who kept his word as to when it would be ready was Butch(2X).
The only rifle that shot dead centre from the start is the Searcy.
The best pointing and fitting rifle is the Searcy.
The most accurate rifle is most likely the Searcy(and all my others are bolt rifles!).
The one with the best rear sight is the Searcy.
Butch is a gunmaker that I believe oversees every detail of the building process, regardless if he does the actual work himself.This means that there is an evolution taking place throughout the years in all areas of production.
Butch has shot rifles himself many times-I think competitively too.

quote:

the barrels had separated (and to be clear, I never once shot more than 6 total rounds - 3 down each barrel - before allowing it to cool to ambient temp). After this return and "fix", which was the 3rd or 4th return, the barrels separated again

Was this a visual separation or did they fail the "ring" test when you tapped them?

A gunsmith did the ring test and pointed out the different sound this one made. I looked it over closely outside in the sunlight and the separation was visible. The second time when it quit hitting paper I knew what to look for - it was visible the second time as well.

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
A Searcy .470 was my first DR, which I had made for my first ele hunt. I've since had 2 Chapuis, 2 Heym and 1 Sabatti.

The Searcy never saw Africa, and I'll never own one again. From day one the forearm took excessive time and force to remove once the rifle was assembled. After a couple months of practice, the safety would re-engage after the first shot, which made for an entertaining second - shot yank and flinch with no bang. Then the stock cracked, followed by a complete loss of regulation whereby neither barrel could hit a 12" target at 20 yards. It eventually became apparent that the barrels had separated (and to be clear, I never once shot more than 6 total rounds - 3 down each barrel - before allowing it to cool to ambient temp). After this return and "fix", which was the 3rd or 4th return, the barrels separated again after 12 total shots - which once again was limited to 3 down each barrel before allowing the barrels to cool to ambient temp. The rifle went back and a refund was returned. I now have 2 Heyms after experimenting with Chapuis (which were problem free) and Sabatti (I got a dremel - regulated double and Cabelas issued a refund).

There's a reason people know so much about Butch's "warranty", and its not a good reason.

What did Bruce have to say about all this?

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
A gunsmith did the ring test and pointed out the different sound this one made. I looked it over closely outside in the sunlight and the separation was visible. The second time when it quit hitting paper I knew what to look for - it was visible the second time as well.

Thanks. Y good friend Judge G has owned a bunch of them, and I shot one of them. He likes them very much and god knows he knows his stuff, but as for me, I found them exceedingly bulky.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have dealt with smiths/gunmakers on about five occasions-that is on what you can call high dollar guns.
The only person who kept his word as to when it would be ready was Butch(2X).
The only rifle that shot dead centre from the start is the Searcy.
The best pointing and fitting rifle is the Searcy.
The most accurate rifle is most likely the Searcy(and all my others are bolt rifles!).
The one with the best rear sight is the Searcy.
Butch is a gunmaker that I believe oversees every detail of the building process, regardless if he does the actual work himself.This means that there is an evolution taking place throughout the years in all areas of production.
Butch has shot rifles himself many times-I think competitively too.

What other doubles have you owned?

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have dealt with smiths/gunmakers on about five occasions-that is on what you can call high dollar guns.
The only person who kept his word as to when it would be ready was Butch(2X).
The only rifle that shot dead centre from the start is the Searcy.
The best pointing and fitting rifle is the Searcy.
The most accurate rifle is most likely the Searcy(and all my others are bolt rifles!).
The one with the best rear sight is the Searcy.
Butch is a gunmaker that I believe oversees every detail of the building process, regardless if he does the actual work himself.This means that there is an evolution taking place throughout the years in all areas of production.
Butch has shot rifles himself many times-I think competitively too.

What other doubles have you owned?

If you read my post carefully you wouldn't ask me that.
I hit a homer with the first pitch.I don't need to try again.
Libby is not that far from you.Show up and show me how good yours is!

This is a rather thoughtless topic. It could have been handled better and with more tact by way of a little research and some PM's (like everyone else does who is researching a new gun). This serves no reason other than to satisfy curiosity but in the process could damage someones ability to make a living. Silly

I'm not a Searcy fanboy. I've had a couple of his rifles and owned and shot many other doubles, I do feel compelled to point out a few things that seem to be overlooked in this thread.

Butch is a modern day pioneer for double rifles, re-engineering and manufacturing many types including the rising bite. No other maker can say that.

I don't know many other makers who have tackled 4 bores and 700's let alone manufacturing sidelocks, box locks, screw grips, long bars and rising bite's at the same time

I've been to his shop, he makes every piece but the barrel in-house from scratch, I've seen the blocks of steel he uses for the receivers, cut in his CNC. all the pin, bars, hammers, levers etc. handmade and hand fit

When you order a gun from him you talk to Butch, not some sales rep. Butch has had some health issues and is now fully recovered, he is currently building every gun himself, one at a time. Quality control is not an issue

Most of his orders are 50k plus guns, including back action sidelocks (i saw one with chopper lump barrels) i don't know where this clunky reference comes from, certainly not any of the ones I've owned. They balance and point beautifully.

He also does runs of 9k field grades with great wood, try and find a better double in that price range. Maybe those aren't finished to best standards...

I can be an annoying needy, discriminating client. Butch has taken care of me and backed his product up 100%. Everything mechanical and handmade can break, its how you deal with it that counts. I would buy another gun from him in a second if I could afford one.

quote:

i don't know where this clunky reference comes from,

Well Don, I was one of the ones (if not THE one) who mentioned that. As I alluded to in my post, Said nothing disparaging about the Searcy, if anything, I said if Ernest likes them that's ok by me as he's owned more doubles than anybody I personally know. On the "clunkiness" issue however, that is something that is personal( I also don't care for the big block letters SEARCY on the side, but that again is just a matter of tasts) and I've handled them and that is what I think. It is an OPINION and nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

i don't know where this clunky reference comes from,

Well Don, I was one of the ones (if not THE one) who mentioned that. As I alluded to in my post, Said nothing disparaging about the Searcy, if anything, I said if Ernest likes them that's ok by me as he's owned more doubles than anybody I personally know. On the "clunkiness" issue however, that is something that is personal( I also don't care for the big block letters SEARCY on the side, but that again is just a matter of tasts) and I've handled them and that is what I think. It is an OPINION and nothing more.

Jorge,

I wasn't specifically calling you out, I've heard it before in other places. I enjoy your posts regularly, apologies.

Those are only my opinions as well, and you know what opinions are like....

No need, sir. I should have been more specific. Cheers, J

Ive owned 4 Searcys, Butch knows I hated excess wood and I like the lines of a British double and he built mine based on that...three of them shot under two inches, The 470 wouldl shoot one hole every time, Butch called my up and wanted to borrow it for the National shoot, and he won the shoot with it hands down..I later traded him the 470 for a 450-400-3", my favorite caliber and by golly it was almost as accurate as the .470 in that it shot an inch at 75 yards.
I like Butchs guns for a hunting rifle, and I like to be able to shoot eyeballs out of a charging buffalo, and minute of grapefruit that's so famous is a junk gun IMO...Butches guns are the most accurate doubles ever made IMO..and Ive owned some good English doubles down the line including the famous "Sweet Thang," a super accurate Jefferys or Army Navy, forgot which...Sometimes it takes a little tinkering to make a double shoot in the inch category, all my Searcys did. They shoot better than English guns mostly because todays barrels like Krieger and Lothar Walthar are just better.

If something goes wrong on a Searcy double Butch always fixes it btw at no charge as far as I know..

Anyone know if you buy a used Searcy if they will back it up warranty wise? I'm guessing yes was just looking at one but wanted to know for sure

I currently own 2 of Butch's doubles, had 3 at one time. Am waiting on another 2 when my name is next on his list. He does beautiful work.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Anyone know if you buy a used Searcy if they will back it up warranty wise? I'm guessing yes was just looking at one but wanted to know for sure

Butch says his warranty is void is someone else gunsmiths one of his rifles. That said, if you organize with Butch, and the seller, to send the used rifle to him for a look, he may/may be willing to give you a warranty.

Regards, Tim

Thanks for the info yes I read that as well good point

Continuing on with the civil discussion. I currently own two of Butch's double rifles in 450-400 and 375 Flanged. They are indeed very accurate rifles. I bought the 450-400 used and I called Butch after I purchased it. Butch told me all about the prior owner who had it built to shoot pigs (go figure) and Butch informed me that the warranty would still be in effect, as long as it had not been worked on by a third party gunsmith. It has been to Africa numerous times, taking a number of cape buffalo. The 375 Flanged is a screw grip action that Butch built for me and it has made one trip and has taken giraffe, impala and eland. I have no complaints, in fact, both doubles have the quarter rib system that allows me to shoot them either iron sighted, with a scope, or with a Trijicon RMR. Butch has even loaded ammo for me (for a reasonable price), knowing the correct load to make each rifle accurate. I also own a custom stocked Merkel 470 that's seen Africa on one Safari. Once I got the 450-400, I soon discovered that that was the right double for me.

There are a few Searcy owners, myself included, that own more than one Butch's doubles.Some own a few.I doubt that would be the case if they had serious issues with them.
I believe that big bore bolt rifles need special attention compared to regular rifles and that big bore double rifles need even more attention.
I would make sure all the screws are tight, did not drop or bang the rifle,leave it cool down, did not dry fire it empty, kept the action clean and avoid shooting too many solids or hard bullets.

I read with interest the variety of experiences with Butch's guns.

I'm sure he does his utmost best to build the best rifle he can. It seems he's certainly prepared to back his product and I'm sure he's embarrassed by any failures with his rifles and is keen to rectify the problem.

"Clunkiness" can be cured by ordering the gun how you want it. Or having a second hand one reworked to fit.

I certainly would love to be in the situation to get hold of one and "shoot the sh*t out of it" and form my own opinion.

I have a very old 470, from the days Butch used BSS actions. I am not the original owner.
When I was a newbie with a million questions, he was amazingly generous with his time on multiple phone calls.
When an ejector began to function erratically he told me to send it in for adjustment. It was back in my hands in a week, no charge.

My first double is on the way, and it is a Searcy.

I will have an informed (though anecdotal) opinion soon!

Here it is http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100663008

I too am not crazy about the advertising banner on the side of the rifle, but I'll learn to live with it.

quote:

Originally posted by tarbe:
My first double is on the way, and it is a Searcy.

I will have an informed (though anecdotal) opinion soon!

Here it is http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100663008

I too am not crazy about the advertising banner on the side of the rifle, but I'll learn to live with it.

Congratulations.Nice rifle in a good chambering.
It looks solidly built and should shoot well too.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by tarbe:
My first double is on the way, and it is a Searcy.

I will have an informed (though anecdotal) opinion soon!

Here it is http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100663008

I too am not crazy about the advertising banner on the side of the rifle, but I'll learn to live with it.

Congratulations.Nice rifle in a good chambering.
It looks solidly built and should shoot well too.

Honestly, I was hoping to find a 450-400 as I already shoot and load for it, and have about 1,000 bullets on the bench!

But by the time I got done negotiating on this rifle, I could not resist!

So now I scour the internet looking for deals on 470 brass and bullets.

TARBE,
[/QUOTE]So now I scour the internet looking for deals on 470 brass and bullets. [/QUOTE]

Diamond K Brass
http://www.diamondkbrass.com/....itro-Express-50.html

The stuff is great, works fine, 5 reloads so far.
Don’t let the mention of the mark from the pressure test worry you.
- Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Redstone:
TARBE,

So now I scour the internet looking for deals on 470 brass and bullets. [/QUOTE]

Diamond K Brass
http://www.diamondkbrass.com/....itro-Express-50.html

The stuff is great, works fine, 5 reloads so far.
Don’t let the mention of the mark from the pressure test worry you.
- Mike[/QUOTE]

Haha...I have some on the way from DiamondK...ordered this weekend!

Thanks for the tip though..appreciate it!

I did just score 10 bags of 50ea, 500gr pull-downs for 30 cents apiece..

My first double rifle was/is a Searcy Classic in 470NE. Very accurate, has nice wood and probably the best value for the $.

My second double rifle was/is a H&H Royal....of course it is top shelf and it cost 4-5x more than the Searcy.

I would say the Searcy is like a Ford/Chevy truck and the British gun is more like a high end sports car.

I ordered my Searcy Classic in 470NE and by the time I received it I had developed bad shoulders that meant I shouldn't/couldn't shoot a heavy recoiling rifle, based on doctor's direction.
It's in the safe unfired, and is definitely a beautiful double.
I listed it in Classifieds and it's still there and available. I am open to any reasonable offer and will include the reloading items I bought from another AR member.

So Robertcat since you didn't get the rifle from me and claim it to be a new rifle, who did you get it from. If you would have gotten it from me you'd know that it wouldn't have cost you anything to correct any issues. Tell use the particulars about this rifle. I have an idea where you got it but I could be wrong.

I notice that he has all of a sudden developed laryngitis. I have 3 of Butch's doubles. He stands behind them and I wouldn't think of buying one from another maker. While Butch can be a surly bastard (his words, not mine), he does some nice work!

I have two. And Butch is there for me and my rifles. No questions asked.

Robertcat,
When I read your last post I said this is bullshit to myself. But then I remembered that 5 or 6 years ago I changed my email address because the company I was using (Searcy@ccis.com) shut down. Have you ever used the bls.doubles@gmail.com. one more question, are you in the US.
I don't remember treating anyone like you say here, it's just not my nature, even though by reputation I'm a surly old bastard.

I am not a doctor but does not appear to be laryngitis to me.

Cat send two emails and then gave up.
Pretty sure the whole world has more means of commo than that; anyone remember the actual paper letter carried by USPS? How about telephone? Telegraph. Carrier pigeon. Courier. UPS. Fed Ex. Personal visit. I can contact anyone on the planet. BLS would definitely have fixed your rifle.
How I see it.