Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply |
One of Us |
I wouldnt say this is a good argument for "accuracy". A gun that shoots one ragged hole at X range was regulated to converge at said distance. A rifle that shoots spread-of- breach(snake eyes)was purposely regulated to do so. Id rather have a rifle that shot parallel at 50yds(or better yet closing just slightly), than one that converges at 50yds but crosses 1" at 100yds. There isnt black magic involved in regulating, no sacrificing redheaded virgins, and im pretty sure the moon phase has no effect; but I could be wrong on that one. http://www.facebook.com/profil...p?id=100001646464847 A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC 682-554-0044 Michael08TDK@yahoo.com | |||
|
One of Us |
Whatever your opinion or choice it is nice time to enjoy double rifles. We have Baikal rifles ranging from the $700 price range to H&H Royals that I've seen priced at about $250,000. New or vintage the choices are many and it is nice to see interest in double rifles increasing. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
|
One of Us |
Yeeaaahh ... that said, there is NO disputing which rifles were of outstanding quality and which were mediocre that particular day at the range. I'm a big proponent of doubles not being for short range only and I'll guarantee those vintage guns will outshoot any current production rifle at any given range, AND without crossing ... that includes a certain make of which many have been promised and deposits paid but VERY FEW delivered to date! What has it been, 3 or 4 rifles total in as many years? Seems as if we've been down THAT road before and history is repeating itself. I'd say the bloom is dangerously close to falling off that rose, regardless of the moon phase or redheads violated! | |||
|
One of Us |
What are you implying Todd? Was this about delivery speed on Bradshaw rifles or about regulation of double rifles as Aron commented about? Seemed kind of harsh and misplaced, or is there something substantial behind what you said? I am seeing posts implying Bradshaw is not deliveringand taking peoples money appearing lately and I must admidt it makes me as a deposit-payer a little nervous. Somehow I trust Bradshaw anyway from the impression I got from mail correspondence. As bayley and Aron are acive on this forum, I think it would be best to get all the facts on the table to avoid unfounded rumors spreading: Bailey and Aron, may I ask, how many rifles have bern sold so far? How many are waiting in line after paying deposits? What are the outlooks on production? If there are too many in line would it not be proper to reimburse deposits a certain way back in line so it will be possible to meet promised deadlines? Closing orders until capasity is increased... Deposits must be reserved for the customers project and not invested elsewhere, so reimbursing customers after not meeting deadlines (or knowing it will not be possible) should be possible. Or am I very naive? | |||
|
One of Us |
Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
Let's put it this way, opinions can vary without problem and I enjoy a good debate, but when I'm personally quoted, then a few condescending comments are added for flavor, ie sacrificing virgin redheads and moon phases to get regulation, I might have a little something to say in response, considering the source in this case! Beyond that, this discussion can go back underground into the realm of PMs! | |||
|
One of Us |
Does this work? If so, I'm game to try it. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
|
One of Us |
Didn't work for me Cal. I still have to eat prunes from time to time! | |||
|
One of Us |
Todd, the comments were added for comedic value, I'm sorry you felt attacked. the only reason I qouted you was because I disagree with you on what was said. I have no axe to grind with you, I would have qouted anybody who said what you did. I'm not going to discuss anything related to a business I don't own or share. Its not my place. I only wish to involved myself in discussions adding opinion from a gun maker. Lately I have come to befriend a large number of European gun makers whose work is exceptional. None of them take part in any public forum...I'm thinking they are pretty wise men. Maybe I should follow their reasoning. I'll add more later on my definition of accuracy, shootability, and regulation in relation to double rifles. It will be a little too long winded to type on a phone. http://www.facebook.com/profil...p?id=100001646464847 A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC 682-554-0044 Michael08TDK@yahoo.com | |||
|
One of Us |
Todd, good practice, or else you'd be full of s**t :-) Great hunt, by the way! | |||
|
One of Us |
That sounds like the voice of experience talking! NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
One of Us |
And yet another turd surfaces in the punchbowl :-) | |||
|
One of Us |
Did you just finish your daily ration of prunes? NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
One of Us |
Mike, I'd love to chat, but I have an emergency appointment in "the Loo" :-) | |||
|
One of Us |
Maybe that'll get rid of your 'chitty' attitude? NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
|
One of Us |
Heres my terms with corresponding short definitions: Accuracy-The rifles ability to put bullets close together in a group out of one single barrel. Each barrel on a double shoots its own group, and they can vary in size. Regulation- The average corresponding point-of-impact of each barrel in relation to the other. Regulation is altered by changing the spread of the muzzles bores, and is a fixed thing in most doubles. The bores near the breach are roughly .75-1" apart, to get bullets to hit to the same point-of-aim at 50yds the bores at the muzzle must be slightly closer together than at the breach. The closer the muzzles bores are together the sooner the bullets flights will cross, as the bores increase distance apart the distance the bullets flights cross is increased. In the ultra rare event of the bores being the perfect distance apart for a certain load the bullets can shoot parallel to eachother at any distance. In the event of the muzzles bores being too far apart the bullets will never cross, and the bullets flight will actually spread from eachother as soon as leaving the rifle. Shootability-A guage in measuring how well a human can shoot the rifle precisely. Stock dimensions, balance, handling, weight, feel, triggers, etc...All these play a part in how shootable a rifle is. Shootability can also change person-to-person. Earlier Todd you mentioned that the vintage doubles you shot were able to shoot one ragged hole at any distance AND without crossing. Knowing what we know about regulation, how is is physically possible for a rifle to converge at 50yds, but not cross at 75yds? http://www.facebook.com/profil...p?id=100001646464847 A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC 682-554-0044 Michael08TDK@yahoo.com | |||
|
One of Us |
WTF Todd Have I offended you in some way? Sure I've had delivery problems, which I am busting my ass to resolve and just becasue I don't post every rifle I build here doesn't mean I've only delivered 3 or 4 in as many years! What an asshole statement to make. It's as if you are implying I am a thief by taking deposits and not delivering, but you have no idea about the deliveries I've made or the fact that we have 4 rifles nearing completion now with another batch of 5 actions in progress. My FFL record book is well into the second page, so I'd say we are more like 6 to 8 rifles per year delivered. I'm sorry Aaron unintentionally offended your delicate ego but your reply was WAY out of line. And BTW, a rifle that is properly regulated SHOULD shoot the spread of the bores at the breech. That way they will shoot the same at 25, 50 or 230 which is where we test each of our rifles before they leave. Bailey Bradshaw www.bradshawgunandrifle.com I'm in the gun buildin bidness, and cousin....bidness is a boomin | |||
|
One of Us |
Bailey, I think your design for a Farquharson D/R is the best ever and I want one. That said you need to know that the customers and potential customers are the bosses. Above you said, "...just becasue[sic] I don't post every rifle I build here doesn't mean I've only delivered 3 or 4 in as many years!" UN- STOOD ! But I'd submit respectfully, that you may be well served to announce each and every succes- sful delivery just as fast as you can. You, and every business MUST have ongoing sales. As long as they are agreeable, announcing the names of those whom already have a firearm that you've built and delivered will help you get more orders. Those customers who don't want names announced MAY be OK with identifying themselves privately to guys whom YOU vouch for as potential customers of yours. Post pictures of completions and firearms in the midst of their being built. You gotta SELL your- self Man! Todd might well be a customer if he was confident that what you build can "best" a vintage Brit rifle in "feel", performance, beauty, and so on, at a price that he likes, and within a time-line that he likes. There are LOTS of guys rooting for you that you don't know about, but you gotta do your part! AN- NOUNCE YOUR VICTORIES, PAST AND PRESENT! Get OK'd to use names of past recipients of firearms ob- tained directly from you as the maker. BUILD CON- FIDENCE IN THE BUYING PUBLIC THAT YOU, ARE THE RIGHT GUY TO HAVE THEIR RIFLE OR SHOT- GUN BUILT BY !!! D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
one of us |
Let the guy run his business the way he thinks. There are plenty of asshole clients???? out there who need to be put in place. | |||
|
One of Us |
I don't see why Bradshaw owes this forum any thing. The witch hunts that start here drive gunmakers away. I have see many hero to zero fights start here and the gun builder always loses. | |||
|
One of Us |
Mr. Bradshaw, I for one have been rooting for you. I rarely post on this forum since I have little to know knowledge or little to offer in the way of comments/advice. Iam one of the lowly people that will probably never be able to afford one of your rifles but have a great deal of respect for your rifle building abilities. I have a deep desire to own a vintage/classic double and maybe one day I will get lucky. I am not without one though, when stationed in Germany I became friends with a guy that worked at Kettner's (a German hunting store) and he found an unsold Krieghoff Classic 'special order' in 9.3x74R that he sold to me for an unheard of price. So, I do have a DR and it allows me to dream of acquiring others someday. | |||
|
One of Us |
For everyone that says you cannot find a decently priced English double, check out the Classified section. There is a very nice Lawn and Alder listed for sale for $11,000 cased. That is an exceptional price. Mike | |||
|
One of Us |
I have recently purchased a Bradshaw DR in 9.3x74R. Am I completely satisfied? NO. Has Bailey agreed to fix my issues under full warranty? Yes. I will not go into full detail on my issues, as I understand Bailey has worked out all these issues under his updated design. However, I am pleased with how it regulates, although I will have to minimally adjust the leaf sights to my sight picture. The biggest issue I have is how the extracted cartridges hit the comb of the wood and make slight indentations on the wood. I am asking Bailey to make it a pure extractor, and not a positive extractor to avoid this. Positive extraction sounds great until the wood gets dented, then it becomes a hindrance. Not to worry, because, unlike the bigger builders, Bailey is working to perfect his guns, not just to sell numbers. I'll report back on this as the gun gets adjusted. Nevertheless, my Bradshaw is the best carrying, best balanced, and IMHO best designed DR ever. It handles like a dream, and is so easy to carry. Not sure if I'm going to add a scope with Tally rings???"? Mine is one of Bailey's early guns, and there were definitely quirks that needed to be worked out; and we are going to do so. I have owned and sold vintage English and Scottish vintage guns for the past 11 years; and in my area, I guess I'm considered the resident expert on them. I love English guns. The feel and handling is unmatched. But do they offer the longevity and durability of a German gun? Hell no. Merkels will last for 10 generations of normal hunting conditions. I currently own 3 British double shotguns; all are elegant, fit nicely, but would I use high velocity rounds from any; hell no? My David Murray 12 Bore Hammer Gun from 1886 is my favorite and I use only Rio 1oz loads at max. My Merkel 447SL will take anything in the 3" range I push into it. And it never malfunctions or has issue. Solid, forever. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
|
One of Us |
Bailey, I ain't jumpin' into anything, but I suspect I speak for more than a few who would appreciate you Posting completed rifles when you can, and have time and the inclination. For some of us it's porn "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
|
One of Us |
| |||
|
One of Us |
Bailey, I have NO interest in escalating this discussion since I'm not one of the guys waiting in line. I'll leave it to them to seek answers to some of the questions that are circulating the private message discussions and only commented in the first place as a result of the way I interpreted your apprentice's commentary to me personally. But despite my earlier comments, I actually am pulling for you and hope you enjoy tremendous success in your rifle business. I think it's a good design and may be a customer down the road. I do want to clarify one thing that was said; that being that none of my commentary was meant to insinuate that anything improper has occurred with deposits. I believe you to be a 100% honest man. Actually, I was referring to some of your own previous comments posted here on the forum concerning the capitalization struggle. That said, I'll certainly offer my apology and retraction concerning any implication of impropriety of deposits as that is certainly NOT what I meant to convey. I'll come speak with you at DSC. | |||
|
One of Us |
Yes it was!! ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
|
One of Us |
Classy Todd... D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
One of Us |
Good to put a hole in that blister, drained it a bit. I am perfectly fine waiting in line for a one of a kind rifle built to specs. The moose here will have to accept being downed with my mass produced Sauer 202 in 6.5x55 swede. Still some time until I can afford a good cape buffalo hunt so I can wait About regulation, I read different things about it but everyone seems to agree not crossing is the ideal as long as one does not get spread out. Problem is it seems easier to regulate for crossing at a certain distance than shooting paralell. Both my K-Guns (500/416 and .470) crossed at around 80 yards. Certainly good enough from the intended use of this type of rifle, but the ideal is different no? | |||
|
One of Us |
I would say the crossing at 80 yards could be properly dealt with by refining your load. If you are restricted to factory ammo, that could be an issue, but simplistically stated, if your load is crossing at 80 yards, the first thing to do would be to slow it down just a bit and see what that does for you. Aaron, just for the record regarding earlier comments and accuracy of double rifles, this target is just a bit wider than "one ragged hole" and if measured would be just a bit wider than the actual center of left barrel to center of right barrel of my rifle. If this spread were to be closed to exactly the distance between the two barrels' centerlines, it would be shooting exactly parallel, more than likely shoot accurately to any reasonable distance without crossing or splitting, AND produce on paper "ONE RAGGED HOLE"!! No black magic, or sacrificial redheads involved but I can't vouch for the moon phase! This target is from my 9.3x74R Chapuis double. Snake eyes and really pretty good matching of the load to the rifle's regulation. Last year I took a warthog at 150 yards with this rifle and I posted a video of same awhile back. At that range, the spread was just beginning to open a bit but for all practical matters, insignificantly. A couple of weeks ago, I took an Impala for leopard bait with this same rifle at 263 yards. I'll post that video when I get a chance to put it together with some other relevant footage. However at that range, the spread is really starting to open and you'll notice on the footage that the bullet struck a bit further right (right barrel) than would have been ideal. So closing the gap a bit more toward "one ragged hole" would certainly benefit this rifle's ability to stretch the range even further. However, it took 14 different loads to get to this point so it's about as good as it's going to get unless I were to have the rifle physically worked on. IMO, that would be foolish and seeking diminishing returns at this point as I really have no desire to shoot 260 yards, let alone further, on African game. But again, the "one ragged hole" statement can certainly be consistent with long range accuracy in a double rifle without necessarily implying the barrels will cross at any specific point down range. | |||
|
one of us |
Wasn`t this target shot with the VC at the time it wasnt regulated well? Stop SHAFTING people,Todd. | |||
|
One of Us |
No George, that target was shot AFTER I received the VC back from being re-regulated by JJ. Target shot at 50 yards off of sticks. Prior to that work, this is indicative of the targets I was getting at 25 yards. The 50 yard targets were almost twice this spread. | |||
|
one of us |
Thats better. BTW,did Jines bring his Searcy at the range when you were there? If so,how did it shoot and what is your opinion on the Searcy double? | |||
|
One of Us |
Yes, he did bring his 577NE Searcy double. My opinion of the rifle is that it is well made and a pleasure to shoot. I don't recall the exact group I shot with it and we didn't take any pictures of targets, at least none that I remember, but I do recall that it shot very well. I was getting a bit "punch drunk" by the time I got to that big boomer but I was impressed with it for sure. Butch builds a good quality rifle and they tend to be known for proper regulation as well. If finances allow, I'd like there to be a Searcy rifle or two in my future. Currently, I'm really dialed in on having him build one of his Stalking Rifles for me as I'm just about as hooked on falling block single shots as I am on doubles these days. George, I expect your Searcy double will be a fine weapon indeed. | |||
|
one of us |
That is good to know! | |||
|
One of Us |
I am one of those waiting for a rifle. I already own a Bailey Bradshaw/Aaron Little droplock 28 gauge shotgun. The little 28 gauge droplock is well made and a delight to shoot. I've known Bailey since he came to DSC Convention with a wooden model of one of his actions. I have always been treated with respect by Bailey. I believe Bailey to be a forthright and honest man! He has always been truthful with me. He has always taken the time to talk with me or return my calls and emails! He does make a fine rifle and shotgun! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
|
one of us |
Plus one! I was with Rusty the day Bailey came to DSC with his wooden model, and I was impressed with it's accuracy of shaping of the wood, and was looking forward to seeing his first double rifle built on that action. Bailey is a genius of design, and machining. I WILL sooner or later have him build me a very small double rifle for my personal cartridge designed wildcat The 6MM Coyote. It is a 256 Mag necked down to 6MM with no other changes in case shape. using 100 gr .243 bullets. I built one of these on a BSA Martini kadet rifle and it was a real coyote getter. I would love to have him build me a double for that round, in a very small .410 size action with 1 in 10 inch twist. ....................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
One of Us |
I am also is the que. Bailey has always been forthcoming regarding the status and progress of my rifle. I have received updated pictures yesterday and feel certain Bailey will produce all that he has promised and stand behind his work when needed. I will be certain to post photos once I receive my rifle in the coming weeks. Bailey is free to post my name and photos as he sees fit. | |||
|
One of Us |
Todd, I appreciate that and I consider the whole issue in the past with no record of it. I don't have a booth in Dallas this year as I'm taking orders faster than I can fill them and don't need the expense and time away from the shop. Shows are a three week process to prepare, attend and follow up once they are over. Anyway, still friends and I look forward to seeing you in the future. As for the regulation debate. We are getting down to splitting hairs based on the targets you showed of your VC. What I have found with rifles that will shoot one hole at 50 yds is that the trajectory takes the point of impact much wider than a rifle that is either SLIGHTLY closing, spreading or one that is shooting parallel. We start regulating at 25 yds. Get it to shoot spread of the bores at the breech and then move back to 50 and ensure it shoots the same. Then we go the 230 yds and ensure the rifle will put a kill shot on an 18" steel siloughet from each barrel. The last DR that left my shop put two shots from each barrel in a 3.5" group at 230. Rifles that were shooting to the same point at 50 would shoot past each end of the siloughet by crossing. I agree with you in part on the vintage doubles in that they are as a whole more shootable than newer doubles. I like to think my doubles are the exception to the rule here, but someone else will have to verify that as I am a bit biased. I will also point out the economic factor involved. If a rifle takes 500 hrs to build, you can buy that 500 hrs for less in a vintage double than you can in a new rifle. The problem with vintage doubles is finding one that fits you, in the right caliber, in good condition and at a reasonable price. With a new rifle you can have all of that built in and the trade off is the wait and the fact there will be less hand work involved where modern technology has gotten the job done. For me, I would look at both new and vintage rifles, find one that makes you knees quiver and work a deal for it. I recall a little J. Springer hammer double in .360 with damascus barrels that still has me fantasising. Felt like it was made with me in mind. Bailey Bradshaw www.bradshawgunandrifle.com I'm in the gun buildin bidness, and cousin....bidness is a boomin | |||
|
one of us |
Just got a call today from the company that is importing my rifle-a Searcy 500NE.It turns out that it is already in Canada and will soon be here.It looks like it took two weeks instead of the estimated two months and a half! That was some needed good news just before X-mas.I knew Santa had something for me in his sleigh! | |||
|
Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia