DR "Gurus",

Just got my hands on a new .600 NE, Sidelock ejector gun. A Marcel Thys. Nice gun, but more of a shooter than anything else, thus I want to make it a real "meat gun".

Has 26" barrels....NOW, the question is...

To cut, or not cut the bbls down to 23.5 / 24"

It's a bit unwieldy at 26"...

Opinions, suggestions, hate-mail!

JW

try lifting weights instead, it will be a lot less expensive and frustrating in the long run.
Besides, one of those young hard bellies at the fitness center might be interested if you told her you had 26" barrels...

Rich

My two cents, a gun is only original once. But on the other hand you seem like you have some intellect behind you and would know that this is not a hacksaw job.

I would say if you are going to keep the gun for a while and use it like we are all use to seeing you use your doubles, I would cut it. However if you are just going to be the care taker for a couple of years and only use it on a couple of hunts keep it original....just my opinion, I don't konw chit on these high end guns.

Mac

oh ya.....where the hell is the pictures???

Mac

I would suggest that it's a bit unwieldy because it's a .600, not because of barrel length. Have owned and used 28" guns. I've never found handling affected positively in any way by reducing barrel length of doubles below 26". That length is already short on a double, and shorter provides no benefit.
----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I would not cut it down.

My favorite elephant double the 450 No2 has 28" barrels.
I have had no problems with it in thick bush.

Jeff what is the make of your 600 you were hunting with recently that has been airing on the outdoor channel in the past couple of weeks? What is the barrel legnth on it?

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Has 26" barrels....NOW, the question is...

To cut, or not cut the bbls down to 23.5 / 24"

JW

Pretty, please... with sugar on top... don't cut the barrels.

It will be YOUR rifle.
Make it the way YOU like or trade it for one more your fancy.
Since a 600 NE is for under 100 yards in the thick stuff and you only need 20" to burn enough powder I say make it so it is lively in the hands and has a good ballance. Why a big bore DR needs to be over 22" is beyond me.

How not to shoot a 4 bore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElmlIyOtf1Q

This is how!
notice the barrel length and that is SAFARIKID who posts here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...HWoI&feature=related

NO no no please noooooooooooo ! just practice with it,practice with it,practice with it

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Has 26" barrels....NOW, the question is...

To cut, or not cut the bbls down to 23.5 / 24"

JW

Pretty, please... with sugar on top... don't cut the barrels.

X2! I own and hunt with a Marcel Thys sidelock with 26+" barrels. It would be a crime to cut the barrels. I've handled Thys rifles in 577 and 600 that had 26" barrels and loved 'em, didn't find them unweildy. At least give the 26" barrels some time and try before hacking them.

BTW, if you throw a tape on the barrels, they will come up at about 26 1/4" since they are a metric standard length.

JPK

Jeff, first thing I would try is to put a ammo holder on the butt stock, maybe one for six rounds. That should change the point of balance for the better. You will always have six rounds with the gun for reloading and it will be less muzzle heavey.

I would not cut it. Cutting it might even change it's regulation, and it would not be original ever again/

Keith

Hell yea! Cut it and have the barrels deep fluted! Should make a great truck gun!

quote:

Originally posted by Mississippian:
Hell yea! Cut it and have the barrels deep fluted! Should make a great truck gun!

That isn't even funny! (OK, so maybe its hillarious instead!)

JPK

Whew! I figured this would spark controversy among the DR faithful....

If I cut'r down, JJ, or Schimmel will most likely do the job, complete with re-regulation, etc.

Nobody will ever know the difference - 'cept me!

If this were a Collector quality rifle such as a Purdey or H&H that would be a serious issue, but this is a Belgian gun, so not a crime to alter /modify....Kinda like when one tweaks a Remington 700, it's usually for the better.

Thanks for the input.

Here's the rifle by the way: http://www.ospreyarms.com/cate...tails.php?i=8&id=282

Will let you know how it goes.

JW

One thing about the longer barrels...

You might find as you get older it is easier to focus on the front sight as your eyes change...

Older, huh! My eyes have changed - I have developed Glaucoma (as a result of too much sex ). Eyedrops are working great, but there went my close-up vision!

My concept is to take advantage of the shorter plane a-la-pistol sight....We have a plan.....

JW

Jeff,
Why not have the best of both worlds. A second set of barrels at 23" now that would be interesting....

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
If I cut'r down, JJ, or Schimmel will most likely do the job, complete with re-regulation, etc.

If this were a Collector quality rifle such as a Purdey or H&H that would be a serious issue,

JW

If you ask JJ he will tell you that the quality approaches, is actrually comparable to an H&H and exceeds most other English rifles. At least if it was made during Thys's hay day.

But he is biased. He apprenticed under Marcel.

Might be tough to get him to do it even.

JPK

Cut them to 22" and have it ported. Then when no ne else with touch it I'll be able to pick it up alot cheaper. Would love to try that with my 500 but I'm not as brave as you.

quote:

If you ask JJ he will tell you that the quality approaches, is actrually comparable to an H&H and exceeds most other English rifles. At least if it was made during Thys's hay day.

But he is biased. He apprenticed under Marcel.

That last statement is spot on, but I hear good things about JJ - better things than I hear about the guns.

The Thys quality, good as it may be, is nowhere near H&H / Purdey. Had'em all past and present and there's not a Thys gun on earth that falls into the class of the H&H / Purdey game. They may shoot as well, I'll grant that , but when it comes to fit, finish and overall quality of execution....Not even in the same league. And then there's the funky case colors, goofy engraving, etc...Nope not even close!

The Thys is what it is, a mid-tier more afforadble version of an H&H. One step above a P & V. A great rifle no doubt, but let's not pretend here; there's no comparison. I bought this one as a design study gun for an upcoming project.

It was the cheapest big bore that could be found that was of a semi-traditional design. If pure performance was the mandate I would have bought a Hyem, no doubt about that!

And...with Schimmel getting ready to take it to another level, I'm all about getting it right! Gotta look good, work great and be instinctive on the mount, especially for the crap we're doing these days.

Back to the original intent of this thread....My 26" gun is just too "clubby" for the quick stuff.

JW

By all means, go ahead and chop the barrels. Just what every fine double needs. Even posting the question reveals more about you than you might think...

Ever fired another decent (ie, before 1939) English .600?

I'll take that as a big, fat "NO".

You asked for opinions - I wouldn't cut them.

Spray on cammo, fluted barrels, Red dot sight system, 18" barrels... Now THAT is a truck double... Shoot them pesky pachederms from the truck.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:

quote:

If you ask JJ he will tell you that the quality approaches, is actrually comparable to an H&H and exceeds most other English rifles. At least if it was made during Thys's hay day.

But he is biased. He apprenticed under Marcel.

That last statement is spot on, but I hear good things about JJ - better things than I hear about the guns.

The Thys quality, good as it may be, is nowhere near H&H / Purdey. Had'em all past and present and there's not a Thys gun on earth that falls into the class of the H&H / Purdey game. They may shoot as well, I'll grant that , but when it comes to fit, finish and overall quality of execution....Not even in the same league. And then there's the funky case colors, goofy engraving, etc...Nope not even close!

The Thys is what it is, a mid-tier more afforadble version of an H&H. One step above a P & V. A great rifle no doubt, but let's not pretend here; there's no comparison. I bought this one as a design study gun for an upcoming project.

It was the cheapest big bore that could be found that was of a semi-traditional design. If pure performance was the mandate I would have bought a Hyem, no doubt about that!

And...with Schimmel getting ready to take it to another level, I'm all about getting it right! Gotta look good, work great and be instinctive on the mount, especially for the crap we're doing these days.

Back to the original intent of this thread....My 26" gun is just too "clubby" for the quick stuff.

JW

I'm with you on the Thys vs the H&H, just pointing out that JJ isn't! As I said, he is biased! I would give most Thys guns and rifles a better grade than a whole lot of English product though - but certainly no H&H or Purdey.

I disagree with your Perguinni $ Vissini comparison. While I have seen some that were nice, most have been well, well below the average Thys I've seen, and in every way.

On the engraving, other than plain scoll, Royal or not, most of the non scoll or partial scroll H&H's aren't any better than the Thys, imo. The exception would be the most recent guns or rifles, but they are awfullt gawdy to me.

The case colors are what they are, as favored by the Europeans. Not better or worse, just different. I prefer a good St Ledger job over the Euro standard, or Turnbull as well over the Euro flavor.

Neither the 600 nor the 577 with 26" barrels that I played with were clubby. They were heavy, and so slow, but not clubby.

JPK

quote:

By all means, go ahead and chop the barrels. Just what every fine double needs. Even posting the question reveals more about you than you might think...

Ever fired another decent (ie, before 1939) English .600?

I'll take that as a big, fat "NO".

( Uh-oh, the "Fun Police" have invaded this thread) BTW, You don't mean those Jeffrey's rifles with the 24" barrels do you?

"You asked for opinions - I wouldn't cut them."

Thanks for the input "Antlers".

Spray on cammo, fluted barrels, Red dot sight system, 18" barrels... Now THAT is a truck double... Shoot them pesky pachederms from the truck.

Shame on you "Boom" - Ivan would never let me shoot from the cruiser!

As predicted those with a sense of humor played along.

And...the usual AR sore-heads hurtled insults safe from behind thier little cyber blankets.

Come on guys, don't let those weenies up there in DC ruin our fun...Lighten-up!

Schimmel's idea of building a shorter set might take the day...Maybe even in .577...Good call DS!

More please!

Cut them if you feel it will suit you better, personally I would leave it alone. Nice rifle btw.

quote:

disagree with your Perguinni $ Vissini comparison. While I have seen some that were nice, most have been well, well below the average Thys I've seen, and in every way.

I think it's a toss-up on this one...I've always thought the Italians put a little extra finish on thier guns and the engraving can be vastly superior to that of the Belgian stuff.

To point, I think a Thys engraved by Griffinee (a Belgian), Fracassi, or say a Brit like Stephen Kelley would be a monumental leap....Funny thing though, you never see that. Most likely it is because those guns(Thys) don't warrant such costly embellishments. Kinda like a Browning Superposed; a great shotgun and really nice with factory Midas, Diana, P4, etc....But even with the hundreds of thousands made, you'll not see one engraved by Ken Hunt, Griffinee, etc.

Again, to my point. A Thys is a working gun and I intend to make mine work better.

BTW, I'm with you on the colors - Doug's the man!

quote:

Cut them if you feel it will suit you better, personally I would leave it alone. Nice rifle btw.

Thanks Bro! You know how I am about that performance thaang!

Call me sometime!

JW

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:

quote:

disagree with your Perguinni $ Vissini comparison. While I have seen some that were nice, most have been well, well below the average Thys I've seen, and in every way.

I think it's a toss-up on this one...I've always thought the Italians put a little extra finish on thier guns and the engraving can be vastly superior to that of the Belgian stuff.

To point, I think a Thys engraved by Griffinee (a Belgian), Fracassi, or say a Brit like Stephen Kelley would be a monumental leap....Funny thing though, you never see that. Most likely it is because those guns(Thys) don't warrant such costly embellishments. Kinda like a Browning Superposed; a great shotgun and really nice with factory Midas, Diana, P4, etc....But even with the hundreds of thousands made, you'll not see one engraved by Ken Hunt, Griffinee, etc.

Again, to my point. A Thys is a working gun and I intend to make mine work better.

BTW, I'm with you on the colors - Doug's the man!

I believe I've seen a couple of Thys advertised as Griffnee engraved. Never seen one in person.

IMO, engraving is just what you fill the void with, and I prefer a variation of good 'ol English scoll, well done.

Don't forget that even an H&H is a working gun. That is what they were built for when they were built, a few show guns excepted, and why H&H expects them back for routine service, like reblacking, etc. I recall meeting a PH who had worked directly for H&H in Tanzania. They issued him a spanking new 465 Royal when he joined the firm. They serviced it every off season. About five years after he joined H&H they left the direct safari business and they offered it to him at a serious discount. He was newly married and couldn't or wouldn't swing the $'s. He still reminises about that rifle and hasn't stopped kicking himself after maybe 15 years. Can't recall his name offhand, works for H&K in Zim now.

As far as your Thys, or any comparable or better rifle or shotgun, I would and do take liberties with the trigger placement and trigger bend and twist, stock, anything that can be readily altered one way or another, like trigger pulls and sear engagment.
But never with the barrels, unless they are junked.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

I believe I've seen a couple of Thys advertised as Griffnee engraved. Never seen one in person.

JPK

Yes they exist, had one go thru Bonhams & Butterfields in 2005. Sorry no pic.


Lot 2222: A cased .470 Nitro Express Marcel Thys boxlock ejector double rifle Serial no. 0152. .470 Nitro Express

Auction House: Bonhams & Butterfields
Auction Location: USA
Auction Date: 2005

Description: A cased .470 Nitro Express Marcel Thys boxlock ejector double rifle Serial no. 0152. .470 24 inch barrels with a 2.75 inch ramped front sight. Red plastic front sight blade. Ramp engraved with a leaf pattern. 10.5 inch quarter rib with one fixed sight and two folding leaves. Maker's name in gold on rib balance a matted finish. Front of rib engraved as front sight ramp. Casehardened reinforced sculpted boxlock action with fine gold border bands and fine foliate scroll details. A gold inlay of a lion on the right side of the action and a leopard on the left side. A Cape Buffalo in a savannah scene on the gold bordered floorplate. Sculpted fences with oak leaves. Engraving signed by Griffnee. Long top tang extending over front part of comb. Hidden third-fastener. Ejectors. Non-automatic safety. Finely checkered pistolgrip stock of contrasting figured walnut with some fiddle-back. Carved drop-points. Black Decellerator recoil pad. Sling eye hole is plugged. Aluminum-framed Americase trunk case with green plush interior. Case with two key locks and a combination lock. Black canvas case cover fastened by Velcro. Gold-plated snap caps. Condition: Excellent, showing limited use. Barrels show 99 percent bluing. Action shows some wear to case colors on underside near hinge. Spotting at front of action under rear of fore-end. Wood shows very slight handling marks. Data: Proof: Belgian Nitro, 470 Nitro Express, 2400 bar. Pull: 14.75 inches. Weight: 10 pounds 2 ounces.

Jeff,
Here is another log for the fire. How about a set of .577 REWA barrels? This would be my choice right behind the camo fluted barrels...
DS

21" or 22"s would be really nice. But I would would play with it a while before I truly made a decission.

Jeff Wemmer,

Should have mentioned that the finish on my Thys sidelock didn't like the African heat and became somewhat tacky and soft. In the heat it was a dust magnet too.

A good London style refinish permanently fixed the issue.

JPK

I would take a damn deep breath before I ever considered cutting the barrels.

I find the 25 13/16" barrels delightful on my .577 Nitro.

Jeff

A little big thing that has not been brought up thus far is the issue of balance. I assume that the gun balances forward of the hinge pin. By cutting a couple inches off the muzzle, is this going to change the balance point to at or behind the hinge pin?

I didn't see how much the gun weighs. I believe a .600 should weigh 15#-16#. I have no doubt "others" on AR would prefer it at under 10#.

Back to the weight issue, if you cut a couple inches off the muzzle, find the gun balances behind the hinge pin, have to take weight out of the butt, how much less will the gun weigh at the end of the day?

Just food for thought before you start down that road.

Don

Don,

Good pick-up on that one! Thought that one through as well. At this time the gun balances like a heavy barreled Sporting Clays gun; (extremely barrel heavy)....That's fine if I were just sneaking up and shooting stuff from stealth, ot just target shooting.

Hovever, I need this rifle to be a bit less barrel positive and more neutral at the pin. Throwing Mercury filled recoil reducers in the stock to promote balance is not an option on this 15 pounder. Need the rifle to handle more like a good field gun, i.e. Quail gun that is fast to mount and quick to handle. It can be done, but those long barrels need to come down.

Need a shooter, not a looker.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Need the rifle to handle more like a good field gun, i.e. Quail gun that is fast to mount and quick to handle.

Damn, Jeff! If you're using a 600 for quail, I shudder to think what you use for deer!

Jeff, you might try a Murray leather butt stock shell carrier.

A few 600 Nitro shells on the but just might balance your 600 out.

I have handled "them" 24" barreled 600 Jeffery's, almost bought one once, they still feel stubby to me.

Funny thing is I like 18 and 20" barreled bolt rifles, but I prefer 450/475 doubles with 27 and 28" barrels.