Prices are rounded to nearest $5.00

MODEL 141 - small caliber ejector rifle on 28 ga frame

141 arabesque engraved retail $7,500 dealer $6,000

141-ENG game scene engraved retail $8,700 dealer $6,960


BIG BORE SAFARI MODEL

MODEL 140-2 ARABESQUE ENGRAVED retail $11,000 dealer $8,800

140-2 ENG game scene engraved retail $12,200 dealer $9,760


DUE TO EXTREMELY HIGH DEMAND EXPECT SOME SHORTAGE OF SUPPLY !

THE PREVIOUS SMALL CALIBER MODEL THAT WAS BUILT ON A 20 GA FRAME IS NOT CURRENTLY IMPORTED.

MERKEL HAS A SURPRISE COMING IN THEIR DOUBLE RIFLES.

Perhaps ejectors in the 140-2 Safari, and a 450/400 3", and 375 Flanged Magnum chambering?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Perhaps ejectors in the 140-2 Safari, and a 450/400 3", and 375 Flanged Magnum chambering?

x2

Merkel will be going to ejectors on the big bore safari models. Retail will be $500 higher. Volume dealer price on the 140-2 was/is right at $8K. As per this topic I don't see how/why the retail would go up less than 5% but the cost is up 10%. Maybe TOMO577 is quoting regular dealer cost. Merkel took a price increase in Nov, that's the pricing I saw. This price increase, my dealer recalled was to be close to $300. I spoke with Pete Yates for a while Wed. They switched as many of their orders to ejector guns as they could, about 90 days worth from now. Eventually they will phase them out. No other features on the guns is changing, unlike what was said by someone here who posted about the rifle he ordered at SCI. Case color is special order. No other chamberings were mentioned. The embellished Africa series will continue in the same calibers.

Pete said that during his last rip to the factory Merkel was filling an order for another maker. They were making barrels for Chapuis!

It's been known for a while that Chapuis gets their barrels from Merkel. Here's some more news, Heym also gets their barrels from Merkel, (at least they use to a couple of years ago).

After watching the Chapuis video I was under the impression that they make their own barrels. Are you sure they purchase them from Merkel? Seems like Chapuis offers a lot more rifle options than Merkel, who seems to be more in the Shotgun business.

Those here know more than me. To clarify, what the sales manager at GSI said was that while at the Merkel factory he saw a Chapuis order being filled. I'm not sure if he said, or not, when that was. I've seen the Chapuis video but don't recall the barrel making. Maybe they make their own now, maybe they were shotgun barrels. This continues to give me more faith in Merkel DRs. Not to mention at least 2 gunmakers build on Merkel actions.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
It's been known for a while that Chapuis gets their barrels from Merkel. Here's some more news, Heym also gets their barrels from Merkel, (at least they use to a couple of years ago).

Try not to get any on you. Heym makes their own barrels, and is one of the primary suppliers of blanks to the Continental trade. I suppose it's possible, but somehow I doubt that Chapuis relies much on the Gerries.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Why wouldn't Chapuis rely on the Gerries? If Heym supplies blanks to the Continental trade why wouldn't Merkel? Continental Europe is becoming a corporate and industrial homogeny. It's good to know who makes what for whom. I really don't know for sure but I care. Don't see why the sales manager for GSI would lie outright, and about something that appears to be common knowledge. The MOST interesting thing about this is that George and JJ at Champlin's profess that big bore Merkels are crap and that Chapuis is the shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Showbart:
Why wouldn't Chapuis rely on the Gerries?

'Cause they're French.

quote:

If Heym supplies blanks to the Continental trade why wouldn't Merkel?

I didn't say they didn't.

quote:

Continental Europe is becoming a corporate and industrial homogeny.

Not really relevant, but yeah, they're getting started again, but it's nothing like it once was.

quote:

Don't see why the sales manager for GSI would lie outright,

You're kidding, right?

quote:

and about something that appears to be common knowledge.

There's lots of BS in any rumor mill, like the statement about Heym getting their barrels from Merkel.

quote:

The MOST interesting thing about this is that George and JJ at Champlin's profess that big bore Merkels are crap and that Chapuis is the shit.

Champlin has been around for a long time. Until very recent years, their inventory of double rifles was reliably the largest of any dealer in the world. They've sold everything under the sun, including plenty of Merkels and Chapuis, and have both in their inventory now. Maybe they know something you don't? Although he IS a salesman, George is one of the most knowledgable DR guys around. I don't always agree with him, but his instincts are good. J. J. is probably the best DR 'smith in the States. He plays no favorites, and I've heard him criticize the makers he likes the best. He just isn't very high on Merkel.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

The only maker I heard of buying anything Merkel was the Mexican Rigby company.

quote:

Don't see why the sales manager for GSI would lie outright, and about something that appears to be common knowledge. The MOST interesting thing about this is that George and JJ at Champlin's profess that big bore Merkels are crap and that Chapuis is the shit.

There is a pattern here. Not sure if "lying" is the right term, but a Merkel dealer is going to talk up his brand while a Chapuis dealer (like Champlins) is going to push their product.

In my personal view, negative selling is something that turns me off right away. To me it tells me that there are not enough good things about a product to make the sale.

With that said, it is a pretty common practice. You are not going to get a glowing report on the benefits of a Ford truck from a Chevy dealer.

Shops like Champlins do a ton of repair and modification work and see the warts on most makes. This is the first time I have ever heard anything about George or JJ painting Merkels as crap. They do push Chapuis, though. But keep in mind that (1) they are a big Chapuis dealer and (2) there is the "French Connection".

The truth be told, there are pros and cons with any make. On AR, you can get objective (mostly) input on it all and make up your own mind.

Unless it is a classic British double. A rifle that comes with matching tea cozies seems to take possession of the owners soul...

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
Unless it is a classic British double. A rifle that comes with matching tea cozies seems to take possession of the owners soul...

...and the Kraut shit comes with matching cuckoo-clock birds that pop out of the floor plate when you shoot. I also hear that they come with free lederhosen.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

...and the Kraut shit comes with matching cuckoo-clock birds that pop out of the floor plate when you shoot. I also hear that they come with free lederhosen.

Yeah. So? I'll have you know that's a $2500 upgrade on a Searcy!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

...and the Kraut shit comes with matching cuckoo-clock birds that pop out of the floor plate when you shoot. I also hear that they come with free lederhosen.

Yeah. So? I'll have you know that's a $2500 upgrade on a Searcy!

Mark you crack me up!

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
I also hear that they come with free lederhosen.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

None of the nine pairs of lederhosen I got with my nine German doubles fit me, so I simply gave them to a queer LIMEY to wear, so he could skip through the heather, with the other GREENIE Tree Huggers!

Gentlemen, there is nothing wrong with any of the makes, no matter what country they come from, if you buy what you want, and it serves your purpose, for the price you are willing to pay, then be happy, and leave everyone else alone with their choice. I've owned good and not so good from all the countries where doubles are made, and none are intirely the best in every way. All have their good, and bad points, just be glad someone is still makeing them, and you live in a country where you are allowed to own them!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
none of the nine pairs of lederhosen I go with my nine German doubles fit me, so I simply gave them to a queer LIMEY to wear!

I used 'em to line the cat's litterbox with. Then the little bitch went to pissing on the floor!
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
I used 'em to line the cat's litterbox with. Then the little bitch went to pissing on the floor!
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Good one Mark!

quote:

Gentlemen, there is nothing wrong with any of the makes, no matter what country they come from, if you buy what you want, and it serves your purpose, for the price you are willing to pay, then be happy, and leave everyone else alone with their choice. ...All have their good, and bad points, just be glad someone is still makeing them, and you live in a country where you are allowed to own them!

Amen!!!

Just as we all should support all LEGAL methods of enjoying our sport whether we personally agree with them or not.

If you disagree, work within the representative republic system we live under for change. Don't let them (the antis) divide us any further than they (the antis) already have.

Good luck.

btt

Ledderhosen could be useful in the thorn bush..

BTT

In my gunsafe I have a very nice 16x16x8x57 German drilling. It was made by a small no name maker in Suhl many years ago. Right next to it sits a 16x16 sxs boxlock Holland & Holland made in the 80's.
One of these guns has true quality and the other has a name.
For those of you who belive the brits build the best doubles because those are the ones pontificated in vintage litterature in the language you can read are missing the fact that at the same time other Europians were doing the same things with there respective national double guns.

Belgium, Italy, Spain and France are building some DRs that I think are surpassed by none, from any time. We just don't get them here like the others we do see. There's a buzz in the gun industry among dealers handling fine guns and that is that SxS DR are a category worth paying attention too. But this does not diminish the fact that many of these dealers don't have the money to buy in to significant inventory of used or new guns.

WHAT DOES ALL THIS RUBBISH & TRASH HAVE TO DO WITH THE LIST PRICES OF MERKELS ?

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
WHAT DOES ALL THIS RUBBISH & TRASH HAVE TO DO WITH THE LIST PRICES OF MERKELS ?

tommyboy,
you certainly don't seem to like other posters talking about anything you can't control.

perhaps you are at the wrong place..

you certainly don't have any complaints when they talk about YOUR single shot, but let someone talk about a ruger...

and people TALKING about double rifles, which naturally leads to other things.


Please turn off the caps. it is rude

AND YOU WIND UP LOOKING LIKE A RANGING JACKASS

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Right next to it sits a 16x16 sxs boxlock Holland & Holland made in the 80's.
One of these guns has true quality and the other has a name.

Holland didn't build it. All of their boxlocks have been built for them by someone else.

quote:

For those of you who belive the brits build the best doubles because those are the ones pontificated in vintage litterature in the language you can read are missing the fact that at the same time other Europians were doing the same things with there respective national double guns.

If you're having to rely only on what you read, you don't know much anyway. I believe the Brits built the best double rifles because I've handled and shot much of what is out there and know it to be true.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

please let me know when you get your next pair of lederhosen. i'm interested.

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
none of the nine pairs of lederhosen I go with my nine German doubles fit me, so I simply gave them to a queer LIMEY to wear!

I used 'em to line the cat's litterbox with. Then the little bitch went to pissing on the floor!
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Quote
Holland didn't build it. All of their boxlocks have been built for them by someone else.

Not really. Webley & Scott built boxlock guns for many of the other Brit makers and supplied recivers for them to build there own on. H&H bought the company and built there own guns from this facility.

Quote
If you're having to rely only on what you read, you don't know much anyway. I believe the Brits built the best double rifles because I've handled and shot much of what is out there and know it to be true.

I agree. If I relied on only what I read I'd probably think that the brits did make the best doubles.
I'm happy to have hunted four contiants in my life and fortunant to have used several double rifles on three of the four.
You can't compare a CNC made double to a fine Brit sidelock but don't think that fine handmade doubles arn't made outside of Britan.
I've learned that a truly fine double (or any other type of fine gun for that matter) Stands on it's own. If you want to compare somthing like a H&H royal to a continental gun then look at a Hartmann & Weiss or Marcel Thys Sidelock.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Not really. Webley & Scott built boxlock guns for many of the other Brit makers

Yes.

quote:

and supplied recivers for them to build there own on.

An old urban legend that isn't true. Recent research shows that the overwhelming majority of the output for the trade was delivered complete.

quote:

H&H bought the company and built there own guns from this facility.

No, Holland bought W & C Scott (Gunmakers) Ltd in 1985, not Webley & Scott. Scott continued to build its own guns in it's own factory in Birmingham, and also continued to build guns there for the trade, including Holland, as they had for over a century. Any Holland boxlock from the '80s was built by Scott, not Holland.

quote:

If you want to compare somthing like a H&H royal to a continental gun then look at a Hartmann & Weiss or Marcel Thys Sidelock.

Hartmann & Weiss make a fine DR. Not surprising since the company is half British. Last one I handled had "Hartmann & Weiss - London & Hamburg" engraved on the floorplate. Marcel Thys were exceptionally nice rifles too, but they weren't the equal of Holland or Purdey.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

what 400 Nitro Express said!
He does seem to know DR's.

Rich
DRSS

I stand corrected. Anyway if they own the company and guns are coming out the door with their name on it It's an H&H. They must have thought enough of the company to buy it.

Please explain what half of Hartmann & Weiss is British? After Gerhart Harmann ended his apprentiship in Ferlach back in the early sixtys he went back to Hamburg and partnered up with Otto Weiss togather they went to England for a while and studied with Peter Nelson. As you can see some people are open minded enough to know that everyone has something to offer.
I'm surprissed that the last H&W you saw was marked both london and Hamburg. I'ts been many years since they left there. You should check out some of their more current work.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
I stand corrected. Anyway if they own the company and guns are coming out the door with their name on it It's an H&H. They must have thought enough of the company to buy it.

Not quite. This relationship was common in the British trade. For example, the Webley brothers owned the London firm of Joseph Lang for 27 years. During this time, Lang's best guns were built by the London staff in house. Lang's second quality sidelocks and their boxlocks were built for them by Webley in Birmingham. All bore the Lang name, of course.

Holland bought guns from Scott for 100+ years. In their early days H & H was primarily a retailer, most of it's guns built for them by others. Many of these came from Scott. Holland's popular "Climax Safety Hammerless" model was the famous "7-Patent Scott". After Holland began building it's own best guns in house in the mid 1890s, they still bought their boxlocks from the trade, and this never changed. Holland's pre-war boxlock double rifles were exclusively Webley & Scott products.

quote:

I'm surprissed that the last H&W you saw was marked both london and Hamburg. I'ts been many years since they left there. You should check out some of their more current work.

This was a recent gun.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Yes the british gun trade is very convoluted. You have kept up with it much more than I care too.
They have outsourced much of their work over the years and I won't be the one to get on a bandwagen about some of the indiscretions some of the makers made by bringing in poor quality work from outside the UK. Anything bearing a Brit name that was built inside the country was good stuff.
Much of the same is done on the continent.It shoulden't surprise anyone that most of the guns from Ferlach look alike or the same can be said for Suhl.
I will say that the finest guns ever built in the UK are as good as anything the world has seen. I also say the same for the best guns built in Germany Austria and Belguim.

WHAT DOES ALL THIS RUBBISH AND TRASH HAVE TO DO WITH TEA COZIES AND LEDERHOSEN?

DAMN KIDS

400 nitro can help us with this one. I belive that the standard for the British double was to keep both barrels inside a tea cozie @ 80 yrds. I'm not quite sure of that.
Back during WWII the brits tried to keep both barrels inside the the lederhosen @ 100 meters

I was at the Heym factory a few years ago and they were making their own barrels while I was there. That is one noisy ass machine. Got a complete tour of the factory...wished I would have bought a Heym while I was stationed in Germany and the dollar was better. But I got a killer deal on a Krieghoff Classic in 9.3x74R that I couldn't pass up. If I remember correctly I paid around $1800 for it at Ketners.

quote:

Originally posted by Akshooter:
Quote
You can't compare a CNC made double to a fine Brit sidelock but don't think that fine handmade doubles arn't made outside of Britan.
I've learned that a truly fine double (or any other type of fine gun for that matter) Stands on it's own. If you want to compare somthing like a H&H royal to a continental gun then look at a Hartmann & Weiss or Marcel Thys Sidelock.

I agree,in part with the quote above, but not the part about CNC made double rifles! There is no such thing as a CNC made double rifle. The CNC is only used to do the hog work that historicly was done by shop swampers, with a chisel, and hammer. Make no mistake every maker today uses the CNC for the same purpose, but fitting that counts is still done by hand, by everyone!

Now go on with you little donnibrook!

...and they use modern powerful CAD software for research, design and engineering.

mac's right

all the cnc machies do is make the parts.
but they make them extremely accurately = provided all dimensions are correct. any error is repeated by the cnc. all the parts come out the same

proper parts save many hours of fitting- often only a polishing is needed !