Update 11/17/11

Hello,

Well the trip was good.
We made several adjustments, but shooting conditions weren't great.
Snow wind and cold temps.

Here is the shooting setup.



This was one of the targets, but not the final.
We ran out of time daylight and ammo.



I need to get to my range and do some checks from a steady rest, with no wind.

Will post final results.

Nitro

You should also try the RUAG Laser + sabot when you can find some (they are currently in short supply). If you want to try reloading sabots look at http://www.slugsrus.com/
Note: Remington sabots in the 12ga are oversized and have been known to cause barrel damage, I have had no reports of damage from 20ga Rem. sabots.

Update 11/26/11

Well weather was 60 Deg. WOW.
I went to the range with the DR.
Shot 6 rounds at 25Yds from bench in led sled.
Lightfield 20ga 3" Magnum 7/8 oz Hybrid Exp.

25 yds.


50 yds.



Both targets overlaid.



Shot 100 yds also 3" x 1.5" 4 shot group.
Wind was blowing holes were not clean.
Maybe not stabilizing.

Nitro

Hey Nitro,
If you don't mind, send me a PM and tell me how much this should have cost and what the accual cost was.
I'm thinking it was almost double. At least that has been my experiance on almost everything.
Lovely gun, better leave it in the will or your relatives will be fighting for it.

Cheers, John

John.

The price is exactly what the smith and I agreed on when the project kicked off.
He has kept his word to the penny.
The only cost creep was my decision to re case color the action.

Nitro

Hi nitro have you bloodied it yet? clint

Clint

Had a bad season so far.
Started on opening morning with an 8 pt deer carcass 20 feet from my blind, my ahole neighbor with a crossbow.

Unseasonable warm weather has resulted in no traffic.

I have not seen a single deer.

And now I missed the last 3 days, trip to Mexico for work.

I will try for the late season.

Nitro

I got a big 6pt 15"wide on the 22nd up on Bois Blanc Island. Used my 458AccRel 325 cast at 2200 big hole in just a little bigger going out. But down state still have standing corn. On the 30th went all the way around the corn 6-8 set of tracks going in nothing going out. Good luck in the late season! Clint

Hunting with my kids, my son got a nice Gemsbok this morning at the White Sands Missle Range in New Mexico. Life is good.

Update 12/03/11

Bill73 and I went to the range on Saturday.
Temp was low 40's and snow on the ground, 90% humidity.

Shot from the bench at 50 yds. and 100.
Elbows on the bench forearm hand supported by a sandbag.
6 shots at 50yds and 4 at 100.
50 yd was no better or worse than before.
2 1/2" by 1 3/4" group.

First 2 had verticle spread but no Horizontal.
Next 4 had little verticle but made up the 2 1/2" group size.
2 R were R and 2 L were L
I will attach the target later.

I shot a left over target at 25 yds.
Offhand and relatively quick shots.
This would be exactly as ahot in the field.
See target below.


Bill73 feel free to chime in your thoughts.

Cheers Nitro

Edit: This is the 50 yd target.



Looks like I need to try some more ammo types.



This is the 100yd target first 2 shots, I felt good about them, pulled the next 2.
Second shots had less verticle but lots of horizontal, off frame of the pic.
But I knew i pulled them bad.

Nitro

All I can say is wow !!!!!!
The fit and finish on this rifle even though the barrels are in the white is incredible,the wood is beautiful,love the case coloring,it looks as if it already has some history on it,just seems to be perfectly matched to the gun,the scope mounting system is simple and easy to use,shouldering the rifle is a dream,the weight distribution is awesome,
I had no trouble at hitting bullseye at 25 yrds offhand,forget about recoil,I could shoot this gun all day long,this gun will be a dream to carry,this project has well been worth the wait,this gun is absolutely flawless in all detail needless to say that I am very impressed,there is just something about a custom rifle that sets it apart from production guns,this gun has it in spades,
I think the rifle is very accurate,the ammo might have to be improved upon,with more conventional type cast bullets versus the un aerodynamic shape of a lead slug this gun will shoot much better at 100 yrds,now I have to think,exactly what do I need in another DR? for I think I have found the smith that will build it for me

Hello,

Bought an H&R Ultra slug for load development.
I will work up some loads this week and head to the range on the weekend.

I will shoot the lightfields for accuracy out of this single shot.
This should tell me where I am on accuracy.

What do you think of this for a slug.

I think these will make nice full bore slugs.

Solid copper, hollow base, 325 grain, 0.628" can swedge them down to 0.626", grooves are 0.625"

What do you think ?



Nitro

Nitro
I used to do some shooting with .58 cal Minie bullets in Civil war era muzzle loaders. The Minie bullet, altho made of lead is sectionally very similar to your copper slug. I can recall seeing stop action photos of minie balls exiting the rifle muzzle with the skirt flared out dramatically. This was with fairly heavy black powder loads as I recall. The fix was to turn down the mold plug that creates the hollow base in order to strengthen the skirt.

I have no idea if the same thing will happen to your hollow base copper slug, but it might be worth trying to recover a fired slug. If they are flaring I would think that it would slow the bullet down very quickly.

Absolutely great rifle! I can't think of a more useful double to use in this country.

Those copper tips should work. Pressure will spread those thin walls I'm betting...how much is anyones guess. When I first saw the pic I thought "GREAT"...run in a tap if one fits or turn some grooves in on a lathe and fill it with lead and add another 75-150 grs of weight. Be worth a try. Copper can be brittle.

My NEF USH will be here the week before Christmas. I've worked up a nice looking 650-700 gr cast lead bullet and will get the mold ordered sometime after Christmas and I found "TURBO" and maybe could work out a deal to get the slugs cast, plus found a caster close by that I bought bullets from last year that might also work out.

All I can say is your 'smith is a REAL GUNSMITH of the turn of the century English master gunsmith par excellence persuasion...very few and far between. Not enough superlatives to even begin to describe this creation...magnificent art at it's finest.

Luck

Foobar PM me.
I remembered where I got the 720 gr modified 600 NE slugs from.
Nitro

Nitro,
I like to tinker with fire rifles as well. Everything from 8 bore Paradox to 20 bores.
For my son, I too bought an H&R single heavy barrel 20. The gun is sooo accurate it has made me rethink much of my hunting guns. In it he shoots the the Hornady SST. he can literally but two bullets in the same hole at 100 yards. I have followed your thread for the duration and have often thought the SST would be my slug of choice if I was to build another.
JZ

Originally posted by nitro450exp:
Surestrike,

I plan to share the gunsmiths name with everyone, I have discussed this with him.
However I am unable to state anything about his work, as he has not actually started yet.
The extent of his work, has been to provide me with some measurements, and an inspection report of the donor action.
He also provided me some references and pictures of past work.
I was able to confirm the references, but the pictures do not substitute for actual product.
I feel confident enough, to undertake this project with the smith, and his communication has only strengthened this decision.
However I will reserve judgment and final decleration of his identity, until I am suitably educated about his skills and abilities, in order to do justice to all.

He is a member here and may decide to tune in after seeing this post.

Cheers
Nitro


This post was written by you on June 30, 2010. I am sure that by now, the gunsmith has done his job. Right?
You said, you were able to confirm references, and that the pictures of past work are not a substitute for actual product.
Also, you said you will reserve judgment and final decleration of his identity, until you are suitably educated about his skills and abilities, in order to do justice to all.
After your return from the trip to visit smith, in your post of 11/17/11 you didnt mention anything about the smith. I have been following this story since the first day, and I was very surprised to see that.
I think that you were very fortunate in finding an individual with more than simple qualifications as "Gunsmith".
Please share your thoughts with the AR community . What was your your impression of the smith and how was your experience?
What is your judment and final declaration? Please share... who built this rifle???
Thank you.
SIDELOCK2010

Hello

Since the rifle is not complete.
I have not revealed the Gunsmith.
I have done this for two reasons, things can still go horribly wrong thought I highly doubt they will, I also doubt the smith will not make them right.
I have come to respect, admire and TRUST him completely.
Secondly since there is still work to be done, I don't want him getting inundated with work, selfish hell yes.

I will discuss it with him and report back.

Nitro.

Thanks! I've been shopping for a donor myself in anticipation.

UPDATE 01/16/12

Hello All,

Happy days are here.
My RMC Brass showed up today.
I ended up with 16 of each RB and Slug Cases.

The RB will be 0.625" and the case mouth is 0.624"
The slugs will be sized to 0.622" and case mouth 0.621"
The slugs are 1 0z and 720 Gr or 520 Gr.(720 made into HP)

The brass is headstamped No 20 RMC Ball and No 20 RMC.
Workmanship look very good.
Will get the calipers out and do detailed inspection.
Went with the 3" length to get the bullet close to the forcing cone.
Hope the std 10 Deg lead works.

Need to get some 209's What is the hottest 209 ?

Cheers Nitro

Nice Build!!! You should be Very Proud of it!!!

Hello,

Here is a pic of the RMC brass stoked with Trailboss and SWC Slug (450 Grain) and RB (350 Grain)



The RB shot really well, super accurate, maybe 1.5 x 1.5 " group. 6 shots at 50 yds.
The leading needs to be worked on.
The velocity was 1540 R barrel and 1484 Left IIRC.
32 grains Trailboss.
I tore the target removing it almost one ragged hole at 50 yds.
Since I am not done, and will size the balls to reduce leading, I will have another update on this.

The slugs had really bad leading and very wide group, pressure was high.
Flat primer, and one primer leaked a little.

I also tried more factory ammo.
This is the Brenneke silver slug 20ga 3".
All target 50 yds.



This was Federal Premium with Barnes Xpander.



This was Federal Fusion Sabot.



So far it shoots Lighfields, Brenneke and Buckhammers really well.
And ofcourse the round ball the best.

Nitro

I've been shooting the Brenneke 1OZ load through my new Shot and Ball rifle that I got from Russ Gould - It's a Kick-ass round! Regulates perfect and will be the Bomb for anything here in NA. I need to get more ordered from Russ and get some more shooting in!

Well, I got some time to persue my 20 Bore DR loading.

I loaded some 350 gr balls over Blue Dot with 20S1 wads and 1/8” nitro cards in Multi-hulls (8)

Also did some Hammerheads over Blue Dot (just 2)

Did some of the BPI DGS slugs over 800X (8)

I did some more of the 350 gr RB over Trailboss, in RMC Brass, added lube in the case neck. (8)

Did some RB on a wad column over Blue Dot, RMC brass lots of lube in the neck (2)

The idea is shoot 2 over the chrony, out of the H&R SB1, check for issues if OK

Shoot 3 Rights and 3 Lefts out of the DR for accuracy and regulation.

The afternoons labour.



The wad column combinations.



Will post targets after shooting.

Nitro .

Update 8/24/12

Well sent it back to the smith.
The sights will be added.
Chamber designation engraved, regulation load engraved.
Maker name engraved.
Wedge finished.
Rust blue.
Auto safety removed.
And general tune up.

Hope to have it back for the season.

Nitro

UPDATE 9/17/12

Sights are in, hi viz see through and traditional V notch.
Engraving font chosen.












Getting closer to blue.

Nitro

I like those sights

What company made the sights

Racknagel in Germany.
NECG is the dealer in the US.

Nitro

Update 9/22/12

Engraving done.



Nitro

Well I can safely say that I have ruled out " J White" as the builder!!

I plan on ordering a 577 from Mr. White.

Awesome!

quote:

Originally posted by nitro450exp:
Naki

Generally shotgun to NE DR conversions are frowned upon due to strength.
Are they done, YES.
To do them safely you usually have to use a large frame like 12ga or even 10ga. so they tend to be overly heavy and large.
Since I am staying within shotgun pressures I was not worried about the strength, thou I did use a 16ga donor gun to go to 20ga.
This had to do with the barrel profile I wanted to maintain.
There are a few companies here in the USA making DR's off of CZ shotgun actions, in all calibers up to 470, I believe.
I believe these are 20 or 16 ga actions.

Nitro

PS: I believe it has been said on here that Merkel DR's are based on there shotgun actions.

Hi, related question:

I have the ability to aquire at a VERY reasonable price a Greener 450NE that due to sill UK laws, was reamed out many years ago to 20ga. By reamed, I mean just exactly that. The 450NE barrels were bored straight out for 20ga shells. There is no choke at all. The action is still proofed for 450NE.

Question is: can I do something similar to yours with this gun?? I have never used slugs so I know very little about them really. My original plan was to put new barrels on it and make it a 450NE or 450/400. But, that is a HUGE amount of labor. I am curious if this gun could be made into something usefull by retaining the original barrels and using 20ga slugs??

Can a slug gun like this be reasonably used on dangerous game??
Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

Hello,

The main difference would be that you have a smooth bore.
This rifle has fully rifled barrels.
You might struggle to achieve any sort of accuracy.
But yes you can use slugs in your gun.
As to dangerous game, I would caution Hell NO.
Someone will be along to tell me how they killed hundreds of buff and elephant with a 22.
Can it be done yes, with a hard cast ball at 1800 fps this hits as hard or harder then most of the blackpowder gun of yesteryear.
Is it the responsible thing to do ?
Remember when you screw up the PH, Scout, Tracker and everyone in the hunting part gets put at risk.

You asked so here is my opinion, it is worth 10 X what you paid for it.

Nitro

quote:

Originally posted by nitro450exp:


You asked so here is my opinion, it is worth 10 X what you paid for it.

Nitro

Thank you for your input, I really do appreciate it. As I said before, I know ZERO about slugs so am very open to the answers, whatever the cost

I'm still looking at changing the barrels but I thought this might be a fun way to play with it as I don't have that kind of cash at the moment.

Cole.

Do you plan to roll your own ?
Will you be using brass or plastic ?
If not DG, what is your intended quarry ?

Nitro

Update 10/22/12
 
Well the progress continues.
 
The sights are done, both sets, traditional with night sight and fibre.
 

 

 

 

 

 
The front sight base is stippled.
 

 
The chamber designation on the flats hase beed changed from 16/70 to 20/76.
 

 

 

 
Ready for blueing.
 
Thanks Nitro

To me that now looks like the gun was proofed for 20/76 loads in Suhl. He left the proof stamps but changed the proof spec. I think he should have left the proof marks as they were so anyone getting the gun later would know it was proofed for 16/70 and then altered to a 20ga without undergoing proof. The gun is no longer in proof. It isn't a good idea to alter proof marks.


~

No, it was re-proved to 20/76.
Also since 20 and 16 bore have similar max pressure, it should not be an issue.
However the first comment overides all, in that proof loads were ordered from a commercial ammo supplier and used to prove the gun in it's 20/76 configuration.

Nitro.

PS, The proof mark is the crown S and crown W, S for shot barrel and W for choked barrel.
These remain unchanged the shell designation is just that. So by correcting the designation no attempt was made to imply proof, anyone looking at the barrels can see it is not for shot or choked.