Speak your piece.

My thoughts are well known, I believe both to be fine rifles but believe the VCs feature more hand craftsmanship and attention to detail and offer better value for the money. I believe that Heym has priced itself out of the market when they offer a bare bones rifle called the PH for about the same money as one can buy a VC with ALL the bells and whistles.

In the interest of full disclosure I own a Verney-Carron .470NE double.

Dr. FM and .450 NE No.2, you all are up next. Let's hear it.

I'm not lucky enough to have owned either of these fine rifles. I have held a heym but after looking at all the posts here on AR the VC has it hands down for me.The finish and price seem to be fantastic for a bespoked rifle.I have spoken to a couple of owners and they couldn't be more pleased. I am trying to fund an over & under 450-400 for myself, hopefully I can start the process soon

I appreciate some of the features which make a Heym a very practice working double. Intercepting sear safety,articulated front trigger, and selectable ejectors are some really useful features.

As far as ascetics and class. The VC has it all over the Heym. I agree that Heym is priced high.

I can't afford a double but I have held and shot a Verney Carron and a Heym thanks to friends who have more money then me. The Heym seemed like a factory rifle compared to the Verney Carron which was more like a handmade work of art than a rifle. If I could afford a double it would be the Verney Carron for sure. I was really impressed by the one I handled and shot.

I would say, [again] shoot a few thousand rounds through your VC guns and get back to us.

A couple of questions to consider:

1. How many PHs use a VC versus a Heym and vice versa?
2. Which rifle is preferred by those that deal in double rifles for a living?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A couple of questions to consider:

1. How many PHs use a VC versus a Heym and vice versa?
2. Which rifle is preferred by those that deal in double rifles for a living?

Just because you are freshly arrived back home does not give you a pass! Do you know any PH that uses either one? I don't.

I'm sure when V-C start offering deals to PHs there will be plenty in the field.
I looked at both and went with the French one, which is always hard when one is of German decent .

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A couple of questions to consider:

1. How many PHs use a VC versus a Heym and vice versa?
2. Which rifle is preferred by those that deal in double rifles for a living?

Just because you are freshly arrived back home does not give you a pass! Do you know any PH that uses either one? I don't.

1. Ivan Carter, to just name one.
2. George Caswell, to just name one.

Adam, I too am of German decent. I have owned a bunch of Heym's which are very good guns. That being said, I too have gone over to the Verney-Carrons the past 3 years. I feel that they are the best value in the new gun DR market. Just my $.02

And we're off...

Didn't we go through this with the "Merkel vs. Verney-Carron" thread?

There will be nothing except opinion to distinguish between the two - which is fine but won't answer any question. In the Merkel vs. V-C thread there was a lot of anti-V-C misinformation about cast receivers vs. forged build technique, blah blah blah.

N E 450 No2 has it almost right - put some few thousand rounds through.

I say almost because to be valuable we would need several examples of each in the same caliber tested until failure to really determine which is "better". In that model. In that caliber. As long as the same artisan makes all that follow. Otherwise even that would not be a valuable test.

N E 450No2 - you said the following in the other thread:
Other Heym thread ...

" I have a Chapuis 9,3x74R.
For the money spent it had been a good double. I have shot and hunted with it quite a bit.
I have killed more different game with it that any other rifle I have ever owned.
It is a good gun...

But "it ain't no HEYM"."

Seems like you have put those thousands of rounds through your Chapuis.

Did it fail you in some way, shape or form?

If so, how?

And, of course, how would a Heym have fared better?

I like Heyms. I had one, sold it and bought a Verney-Carron. Sold that one to get a "Bespoke" double and could have bought another Heym but chose another Verney-Carron.

I have absolutely ZERO reason to believe one is built better or stronger than the other based upon my own personal experience with several examples of both doubles; reading about and speaking with representatives of both manufacturers; and watching the video's and looking at photos of both company's build process.



Here's mine yesterday. 12 shots and I couldn't be happier!

I think this is a Toyota VS Hyundai type situation. You can get all the bells and whistles that we find on the Toyota for thousands of dollars less when you buy a Hyundai. Yet people still buy a lot of Toyota's. For some, there is something to be said for a good reputation and proven reliability. Others choose to spend less and can also be quite happy. In the long run it is a personal choice.

I faced this question early this year. Wanting a new 500ne double, i decided to attend the SCI RENO 2011 and look at the options available as here in Oz we dont see many doublerifles that we can choose and compare.
I had rated my preference based on research as Heym 1 VC 2 .
once at the show and examining both, i went the VC because customising features on the gun was no problem.
The bespoke nature of the VC was most appealing. HEYM were not flexible apart from barrel length between 24-26 ", selectable ejectors and stock length. I too felt that although the HEYM is a wonderfully made firearm, i felt that its price was up there and the VC gave me a better all round package. I certainly dont intend to fire more than 100rnds per year , so to get to 5000 means i will need to post the results in 50 years time!!

cheers
nick

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
A couple of questions to consider:

1. How many PHs use a VC versus a Heym and vice versa?
2. Which rifle is preferred by those that deal in double rifles for a living?

Just because you are freshly arrived back home does not give you a pass! Do you know any PH that uses either one? I don't.

1. Ivan Carter, to just name one.
2. George Caswell, to just name one.

Maybe I should have qualified that question as to any PH's that used one that actually bought it? That would leave out Ivan and his Heym. Now Georgy Caswell is a PH? That's news to me.

I would prefer the VC but let's face it guys, the Blaser S2 is way more gun than either of these for a lot less money.... LOLOLOL

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Maybe I should have qualified that question as to any PH's that used one that actually bought it? That would leave out Ivan and his Heym.

Will - If you're referring to Ivan's 450, everyone knows that was a gift from a Spanish client.

Ivan paid for his HEYM 600 and 300.



Here is a list of Professional Hunters that all actually bought HEYM doubles.

http://www.heymusa.com/heym_phs.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

I believe that Heym has priced itself out of the market when they offer a bare bones rifle called the PH for about the same money as one can buy a VC with ALL the bells and whistles.

If the items below are "bare bones", please tell us what specifically is included with "all the bells and whistles."


HEYM "PH" grade:
> Intercepting Sears
> Automatic Ejectors
> Articulated Front Trigger
> Cocking Indicators
> Non-Automatic Safety
> Stocked to Fit (right or left-hand) LOP, Drop, Cast, Pitch, Grip Length
> Shoe-Lump barrels (not mono-block)
> Your choice of barrel lengths (up to 26")
> Your choice of forends (splinter or semi-beavertail)
> Your choice of cheekpieces or no cheekpiece at all
> Select your own stock blank (from photos)

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

If the items below are "bare bones", please tell us what specifically is included with "all the bells and whistles."

Upgraded wood with palm swell, shadowline cheekpiece, and teardrops
Moustache type reinforcements
Hand engraving
Full length top tang
Full length trigger guard
Steel grip cap with reservoir and spare firing pins

Like I said the standard features on a basic Heym make it a more desirable and usable working rifle than anything else out there for the price.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Maybe I should have qualified that question as to any PH's that used one that actually bought it? That would leave out Ivan and his Heym.

Will - If you're referring to Ivan's 450, everyone knows that was a gift from a Spanish client.

Ivan paid for his HEYM 600 and 300.



Here is a list of Professional Hunters that all actually bought HEYM doubles.

http://www.heymusa.com/heym_phs.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

I believe that Heym has priced itself out of the market when they offer a bare bones rifle called the PH for about the same money as one can buy a VC with ALL the bells and whistles.

If the items below are "bare bones", please tell us what specifically is included with "all the bells and whistles."


HEYM "PH" grade:
> Intercepting Sears
> Automatic Ejectors
> Articulated Front Trigger
> Cocking Indicators
> Non-Automatic Safety
> Stocked to Fit (right or left-hand) LOP, Drop, Cast, Pitch, Grip Length
> Shoe-Lump barrels (not mono-block)
> Your choice of barrel lengths (up to 26")
> Your choice of forends (splinter or semi-beavertail)
> Your choice of cheekpieces or no cheekpiece at all
> Select your own stock blank (from photos)

You left off Mark Sullivan

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
And we're off...

Didn't we go through this with the "Merkel vs. Verney-Carron" thread?

There will be nothing except opinion to distinguish between the two - which is fine but won't answer any question. In the Merkel vs. V-C thread there was a lot of anti-V-C misinformation about cast receivers vs. forged build technique, blah blah blah.

N E 450 No2 has it almost right - put some few thousand rounds through.

I say almost because to be valuable we would need several examples of each in the same caliber tested until failure to really determine which is "better". In that model. In that caliber. As long as the same artisan makes all that follow. Otherwise even that would not be a valuable test.

N E 450No2 - you said the following in the other thread:
Other Heym thread ...

" I have a Chapuis 9,3x74R.
For the money spent it had been a good double. I have shot and hunted with it quite a bit.
I have killed more different game with it that any other rifle I have ever owned.
It is a good gun...

But "it ain't no HEYM"."

Seems like you have put those thousands of rounds through your Chapuis.

Did it fail you in some way, shape or form?

If so, how?

And, of course, how would a Heym have fared better?

I like Heyms. I had one, sold it and bought a Verney-Carron. Sold that one to get a "Bespoke" double and could have bought another Heym but chose another Verney-Carron.

I have absolutely ZERO reason to believe one is built better or stronger than the other based upon my own personal experience with several examples of both doubles; reading about and speaking with representatives of both manufacturers; and watching the video's and looking at photos of both company's build process.



Here's mine yesterday. 12 shots and I couldn't be happier!

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
I think this is a Toyota VS Hyundai type situation. You can get all the bells and whistles that we find on the Toyota for thousands of dollars less when you buy a Hyundai. Yet people still buy a lot of Toyota's. For some, there is something to be said for a good reputation and proven reliability. Others choose to spend less and can also be quite happy. In the long run it is a personal choice.

I may be taking his post wrong, but I think Doc’s post here is a thinly veiled attempt to get a controversy going, and it will most likely work, though I see no reason for it, because I see absolutly nothing wrong with the Varney-Carron double rifles.

The "BLAH BLAH BLAH" he alludes to are mine from a post I did after the 2011 DRSS get together/ wild boar hunt down at 4K ranch near Brady, Texas the DRSS members were offered to put three of these V/C rifles through their paces. I thought that post was an honest assessment of the rifle, and I do not think it was anti V/C at all.

I found the rifles to be very well made, and if I wasn’t already double rifle poor I’d certainly be tempted to buy one. Would I rather have a Heym?, Hell yes I would, simply because of the Heym’s long run without a problem and the V/C’s unproven long term value.That long run with out problem is the "THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS NE 450No2 was talking about proving the Heym's quality!

If both were the same price I would still buy the Heym, but they are not the same price however, and with an unknown against a well known, even the four or five thousand dollars difference still makes my choice the Heym! It may turn out, over time, the V/C is a BETTER rifle than the Heym, but that is the UNKNOWN I'm talking about.

The “Blah Blah Blah “he speaks of is In regard to my comment that there was evidence that the action bodies were castings, no matter what V/C says! This is not a bad thing, and further “Blah Blah Blah” was about my comment that there is nothing wrong with castings today. That technology has come to be a quality process in the last 50 years, with proper stress relief is equal to any forging in firearms actions, and that cost savings IMO is one of the reasons the V/C is 4K or 5K less in price than the Heym. As I said it makes no difference anyway because there is nothing bad about a proper casting in this application.

It is true the V/C is pretty, but I never take “PRITTY” into an evaluation of a double rifle’s quality of manufacture, because it has nothing to do with the working quality of the rifle. It is, in many cases, simply lace on a pig, as in the case of the Sabattis, which simply OINKS!! I don’t think that is the case with the V/C as it is a perk there.

I think Roscoe has it down! There is nothing wrong with either of these rifles! Both are fine and though the V/C is a new kid on the block and has no long time history to go by, I find them to be a very well made rifle in a structure basis. I would have no problem hunting buffalo from no more than the three I have examined closely.

The V/C s I have shot worked well, and were very accurate, however even though they are very different in the way they are built, they both are very serviceable as hunting rifles for serious game animals, IMO. In that respect it is simply, as Roscoe says a personal choice.
...............................................................

quote:

The “Blah Blah Blah “he speaks of is In regard to my comment that there was evidence that the action bodies were castings, no matter what V/C says! This is not a bad thing, and further “Blah Blah Blah” was about my comment that there is nothing wrong with castings today. That technology has come to be a quality process in the last 50 years, with proper stress relief is equal to any forging in firearms actions, and that cost savings IMO is one of the reasons the V/C is 4K or 5K less in price than the Heym. As I said it makes no difference anyway because there is nothing bad about a proper casting in this application.

Mac,

VC uses no cast parts in their rifles. VC receivers are forged, not cast. The VC factory manager has said so, Ken at Kebco has said so, and VC says so right in first few pages of their catalogues. I'm not sure why you continue to try and paint VC rifles with this brush.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Maybe I should have qualified that question as to any PH's that used one that actually bought it? That would leave out Ivan and his Heym.

Will - If you're referring to Ivan's 450, everyone knows that was a gift from a Spanish client.

Ivan paid for his HEYM 600 and 300.



Here is a list of Professional Hunters that all actually bought HEYM doubles.

http://www.heymusa.com/heym_phs.htm

Poor Will - always one trigger shy of a load....

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
Upgraded wood with palm swell, shadowline cheekpiece, and teardrops

> UPGRADED WOOD: These are some photos of "PH" rifles on our website with what is considered "standard" wood.












They are all a little different, and I don't know if they qualify as "Upgraded Wood" or not.





HEYM does offer wood upgrades above what is shown above, but I think that any of those above compare favorably to your stock.



> PALM SWELL: That is very Teutonic of you. Palm swell is a no cost option on any HEYM double. Although they are more common in Europe.



> SHADOWLINE CHEEKPIECE: A Shadowline cheekpiece is also included on the "bare bones" PH grade.




As is your choice of cheekpiece styles. Note the two styles available and that both have a shadowline.




> TEARDROPS: HEYM does NOT have teardrops on the stock, but I've never seen a German gun with teardrops on the stock.



> MOUSTACHE TYPE REINFORCEMENTS:

I assume you're referring to the bolster. That's the reinforcement between the standing breech and water table.

Yes, even those are included on the "PH".


The "Moustache" shape is a copy of Holland's pattern.




The HEYM bolster is shaped more like the Purdey.






Both serve the same purpose, but the styling is obviously different.


> HAND ENGRAVING: You got me there! There is no engraving on the "PH" model.


> FULL LENGTH TOP TANG: HEYM has built Extended Top Tangs, but it (like the VC) is two separate pieces b/c of the draw-bolt stock.

This is for looks only, as a separate piece of steel inlet into the comb of your stock does not add any strength.

I'd have to get a cost on this option, but I will put it on your rifle at no cost.


> FULL LENGTH TRIGGER GUARD: Is standard on the higher grade "Safari", but the "PH" has a short trigger guard.

This is a $300 option on the "bare bones" PH grade.




> STEEL GRIP CAP WITH RESERVOIR: The "Trap Grip Cap" is NOT standard on the "PH" grade.

It is a $300 option on the "bare bones" PH grade.


> AND SPARE FIRING PINS: They are not included as a course of practice, but any HEYM rifle owner can have as many firing pins as they want... just give me a call and ask for them.

I am so confused....

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:

If the items below are "bare bones", please tell us what specifically is included with "all the bells and whistles."

Upgraded wood with palm swell, shadowline cheekpiece, and teardrops...

Hand engraving

I thought there were some folks here that did not view engraving as something desirable?

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
Nice rifle but what is it with the Germans and their damned fetish for carving, whether on wood or metal? I would prefer traditional engraving of the buff rather than his being carved into the metal and the same goes for the leaves on the rib. I can't tell you how many nice stocks on German rifles I have seen that were ruined by having damned leaves, berries, birds, stags, woodchoppers heading off to work, and everything else under the sun carved into the wood when simple checkering is all that is necessary. Some of them look like damn cuckoo clocks with barrels. Just my opinion, excuse my rant. Beautiful rifle but I would prefer a more understated, English style.

That was a comment on the thread for the Pictures of the Heym BB Deluxe.

Perhaps the preference is against stiffer wristed German engravers as opposed to their limper wristed European brethern?

Someone help me out here.....

No, my comment indicates a preference for traditional style engraving as opposed to the heavy handed style of the Germans. Nothing to do with anyone being limp wristed.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:

quote:

The “Blah Blah Blah “he speaks of is In regard to my comment that there was evidence that the action bodies were castings, no matter what V/C says! This is not a bad thing, and further “Blah Blah Blah” was about my comment that there is nothing wrong with castings today. That technology has come to be a quality process in the last 50 years, with proper stress relief is equal to any forging in firearms actions, and that cost savings IMO is one of the reasons the V/C is 4K or 5K less in price than the Heym. As I said it makes no difference anyway because there is nothing bad about a proper casting in this application.

Mac,

VC uses no cast parts in their rifles. VC receivers are forged, not cast. The VC factory manager has said so, Ken at Kebco has said so, and VC says so right in first few pages of their catalogues. I'm not sure why you continue to try and paint VC rifles with this brush.

Cane Rat, I see Doc's post did exactly what I predicted!

I'm not saying they ARE castings! What I am saying is the ones I examined showed "signs" of them being castings. That is the truth, and as I said further it makes no difference anyway whether they are or not, because there is nothing wrong with casting today. That is also true.

The fact that all those people told you they were not castings still may or may not be true, and they may not be lying,like you, just are repeating what they were told!

We had the same discussion about the Merkels a few years ago in regard to the type of lumps in them. The factory, and the importer said the rifle had DIMI-BLOC barrels, and they stated the word DINI-BLOC meant CHOPPER LUMP in Germany. This is not the case and was simply a mistake in terms. The word DIMI-BLOC is French and means "HALF BLOC" But the word BLOC can mean several different things. The BLOC can be any component of anything not lumps! The Merkels before the newer mono-block barrel sets are SHOE-LUMP barrels not chopper-lumps! The factory mistakenly place this misnomer in there catalogs, website, and was repeated by the importer, and earlier myself, based on the afore mentioned sources! They and I were all simply mistaken! Like you I took what I was told by the factory rep and catalog to be true, but later found it to not be true.

I'm not saying the three people made the same type of mistake, but the three rifles I looked inside showed sign of casting, but as I said back in that post, the pebbling on some un-machined surfaces could have been the result of electro reduction rather than from un-machined casting. All I know is I based my opinion on what I saw inside the action body. If I got it wrong then that is my mistake, however I don't see that opinion as anti V-C rifles! I think the V-C rifles are very nice rifles!
I knew I should have not come out of the lurking mode on this one, because can't disagree with anyone here, and live to tell the tale! ……… BYE!!!!!

.................. ....................

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
No, my comment indicates a preference for traditional style engraving as opposed to the heavy handed style of the Germans. Nothing to do with anyone being limp wristed.

So this is heavy handed?

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
No, my comment indicates a preference for traditional style engraving as opposed to the heavy handed style of the Germans. Nothing to do with anyone being limp wristed.

So this is heavy handed?

A bit much for my taste, mainly the leaves and the deeply engraved buff on the underside. If you go back and read my comments that I posted on that thread when the pics of the rose and scroll engraving on a Heym were posted you will see that I complimented it. My objection is to the deep relief carving of animals into the receiver, top levers shaped like elephant heads and so forth.

Seems like the VC guys defend the VC's and the Heym guys defend the Heym's. That's pretty unremarkable. I wonder how many people own both what their opinion is?

I think they are both good rifles.

I will admit I don't know enough about what goes into a VC rifle to make a good side by side comparison. We can all judge by looks, but what goes into the frifle is what counts.

For example, I know Heym uses forged Krupp steel and their barrels are cold hammer forged. The VC site says their double receivers are forged steel of forged Erbal. Erbal is essentially 7075 aluminum. Just says their barrels are steel, no information whether they are or are not cold hammer forged.

VC's are great looking doubles and from the reports of folks that have them are great shooters as well. Reliability/dependability and durability are important in a DG rifle. To do a side by side comparison, those points need to be considered as well.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Seems like the VC guys defend the VC's and the Heym guys defend the Heym's. That's pretty unremarkable. I wonder how many people own both what their opinion is?

I own both and gave my $.02 earlier.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I may be taking his post wrong, but I think Doc’s post here is a thinly veiled attempt to get a controversy going, and it will most likely work, though I see no reason for it, because I see absolutly nothing wrong with the Varney-Carron double rifles.

Obviously you have take it the wrong way. Re-read the the last paragraph that I wrote and you copied.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The "BLAH BLAH BLAH" he alludes to are mine ...

Actually no, that's incorrect, only the statement of cast vs.forged. The first statement in my post above alludes to my feelings of "not another this vs. that thread" the last one of which had quite a bit of nonsense by a few people.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Cane Rat, I see Doc's post did exactly what I predicted!

My biggest problem in life continues to be believing that most people are good, honest and honorable people who try to help.

And every day someone I believe to be so comes along to prove me wrong.

Someday I will learn that lesson and change my beliefs.

Maybe that day should be today.

quote:

The VC site says their double receivers are forged steel of forged Erbal. Erbal is essentially 7075 aluminum. Just says their barrels are steel, no information whether they are or are not cold hammer forged.

Need to make a few corrections.

The receivers of all SXS double rifles are made of 35 NCD 16 steel.

(Look at page 2 of the PDF catalog)
http://www.verney-carron.us/de...008-DEMAS-GB-web.pdf
From the catalog.....The Azur side by side, created by Paul Demas has a very
high strength forged steel receiver (35 NCD 16) with a
revolutionary design that helps to do away with :
- all shearing when firing thanks to its interior cross brace
and its receiver closed at the front,
- all elongation thanks to its double interior longitudinal
brace giving it considerable solidity.
The use of 35 NCD 16 steel makes it possible to manufacture
fine receivers that absorb very high pressure levels
(5,700 bars) thanks to their triple hooks, their triple recoil
face and their wide (24 mm) and thick (6 mm), flat lock.
It is the strongest type of steel currently used to make
double rifles receivers.

Barrels are button rifled.

Maybe we could have a duel between the dealers.

I looked at both, read up on them, and compared prices. To say that one is a Toyota and the other an Hyundai implying a difference in quality is nonsense. Like everything in life VALUE for monies spent is what I look at and of course what the gun looks like as a matter of personal taste. So I asked myself, and my decision was the VC. Given the rather large difference in base costs and what you get, it was a easy decision for me. jorge

I own both a VC 577 nitro and a heym 500. I like both guns they are both accurate and are well made. I think the heym 500 has more recoil than the VC 577 but it is lighter so easier to carry for distance. I don't know all the techical things being talked about but I like both and I think the VC is a little better looking(to me). I have 5 different doubles on the wall and the one most people pick out to feel is the VC and I can assure you not because it is better but they like the looks.My 577 has been shot quite abit and killed some nice buffalo and hippo and my 500 will soon. i think you should pick the one you like best. they are both great guns along with several others.

quote:

Originally posted by gerryb:
I own both a VC 577 nitro and a heym 500. I like both guns they are both accurate and are well made. I think the heym 500 has more recoil than the VC 577 but it is lighter so easier to carry for distance. I don't know all the techical things being talked about but I like both and I think the VC is a little better looking(to me). I have 5 different doubles on the wall and the one most people pick out to feel is the VC and I can assure you not because it is better but they like the looks.My 577 has been shot quite abit and killed some nice buffalo and hippo and my 500 will soon. i think you should pick the one you like best. they are both great guns along with several others.

Some sage advice right there. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Maybe we could have a duel between the dealers.

Every time you type something a little off color, I simply envision you sitting in front of your computer in that pink shirt with the cut-off sleeves...

And it makes me chuckle.

Thanks, Will!

Now duel is off color? Everyone here must get hosed down with Clorox every morning.

If only the Heym was available with a single trigger, you'd win the duel easy. If a followup shot was required.

I loved my Heyms BTW.