Graeme, Your leaving out some necessary facts that needs to be known. The problem was caused by your inexperience with a double rifle and the fact that you were using improperly prepared hand loads. I refer to the inexperience because when the top lever didn't return to the locked position you weren't aware that this needs to be checked especially with handloads.
So the most accurate double is in your safe, where it should be with a problem. If you had a problem with one of your other doubles what would you expect them to do to make you happy. Especially knowing that this was a second hand purchase. Oh yes, in your first post about the rifle you gave it raving reviews, after useing handloads and things go to shit.

SBB,

are you embarrassed to post your real name and PH company here?

Tell you what I'd do, just to help you out. I'll be in SA in forty-five days. I will find out what the paper trail is to get that klunker back home where it belongs.
I'll BUY it from you!! Is that clear enough?

I'LL BUY THAT SEARCY DOUBLE RIFLE FROM YOU!!!!!

Is that clear enough?

My PH would be willing to walk it through all the paper trail shuffle and get it here to me.

Money talks, and bullshit walks. You going to take me up on the deal or should I just buy you a new pair of tennis shoes?

As my Grandfather told me more than once: "Shit or get off the pot!".

regards,

Rich

quote:

when the top lever didn't return to the locked position

At the risk of a slight change in direction here, where is supposed to be the correct top lever position? Dead center or just to right?

An experienced gunsmith told me it was really supposed to be centered. That was on a shotgun, not a Searcy.

Oh, I also have a Searcy and would be happy to buy another if I could.

The top lever should be in the same position when the gun is loaded, as it is when it's empty... If it isn't, then something about that ammo is not right, and should be corrected.

DM

Thanks DM, but I was really thinking more generally when the loads are not a factor. It's where the lever is supposed to be otherwise I was interested in. But, I know it's probably a gunsmithing question...

shack

When a DR is brand new, some DR makers have the top lever VERY slightly to the right
and as it wears in in the first few shots, it goes to the centre. I have seen this on H&H's.

Now I am NOT commenting on how Searcy does it so best ask him.

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
BigB - I own three doubles - one Searcy , one Blaser and a Krighoff - only the Searcy needs repair - every PH I know who has a Searcy has had to have repairs done to it. In fact we see this all over these pages and these REPAIRS are used as a testimonial for the good service - I would prefer a DR that needed no after sales service - given my experience.
But stand aside watch the attack its allmost like the response I get when I post hunting support on the anti- hunters support pages.

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
I think it is great to hear that Searcy does such a good job standing behind their product.

My question is it typical to buy a new double rifle and then send it back for repairs. I have read on AR many times about a Searcy rifle going back for warranty repair. I have not heard about this as much with other makers.

Do other double rifle manufacturers need to repair theirs also?

I had a Merkel 470 that I took on 3 safaris and it worked fine. Sold it to another AR member and as far as I know it has not needed repair.

So do Searcy rifles have a higher need to get repaired as new compared to others or does it just seem that way in reading AR.

BigB

Safris Botswana Bound,

You are bringing up the point I was trying to ask in the question. Why so many repairs and why are these repairs regarded as a positive. I too would rather have a double that worked right from the manufacturer and requires no repairs. Your difficulty with getting a gun back from Africa highlights this.

BigB

BigB,
Why are you assuming that I have more repair recalls than Merkel of K rifles, or others. I would say that a third of my orders are from unhappy owner of other rifles. Did you ever stop to think that I sells to AR members by me are a much higher percentage than the others.
Did you notice my previous post. Graeme's problem was operater induced.

Butch,

I do not have an opinion one way or the other. I just mentioned that in reading AR it seems that you hear of Searcy double rifles being sent back for repair more often than others. I have heard fewer reports of other doubles needing repairs and assume ( maybe incorrectly) that they don't need as many repairs. I only had one double and it was a Merkel that worked fine. That you repair your doubles to make the customers so happy that they heap praise on you is commendable.

It may be highly possible that the AR universe is made up of a higher percentage of Searcy users and therefore make up for what I percieve is the higher number of Searcy returns. I do not know.

In that you say you repair lots others it may be the case that the repair rate of double rifles (bought new) is X rate. No one else selling any other brands or experienced with other brands has answered my question. I was just curious as to the repair rate for Merkel, Heym, Chapius, Kreighoff, Blaser etc .

I will say I am pretty much a bolt rifle person and do not own any bolts for long that do not have bedding, new triggers, new barrels etc. When I buy a bolt I assume I will make modifications. But my bolt guns even with modifications cost far less than an inexpensive double. So my assumption is if I were to buy a double it would not need repair or modifications. Although I did put a recoil pad on the Merkel I had.

Just a curious by-stander with no dog in this fight.

Thanks

BigB

BIGB, I think the reason you hear of warranty work on the Searcys is because everyone who is into double rifles knows Butch, at least casually, and if any little thing needs changing on one of his rifles, he takes care of it. Because of that folks have a need to express their thanks publicly. Most of these things seem to be minor changes to a different sight bead, or to slick up the finish on a rifle bought used. The fact is Butch rarely charges anything more than shipping for this service.

I think because these same things when needed on a Merkel, Heym, K-gun, chapuis or Blaser, it is a hassle to send the rifles back to the makers so these things are normally done by some gunsmith, and are paid for by the rifle's owner. If they mention it at all on the Internet, it is to say how good or bad the gunsmith did the work, and how little or how expensive it was to have the mods done.

So what I'm trying to get across is, Merkel, Chapuis, Heym, and K-guns are all in the gun smith category, while the Searcy is the only one sent to the maker, for the same things. When you hear about the fist group it is usually a long drawn out affair, and with the Searcy the surprise that it takes so little time, and the cost is either nonexistent, or very reasonable, that it genders comment publicly!

Before anyone asks, I do not own a B. Searcy rifle, nor have I ever owned one, and I have no dog in the fight. What I do know however is that many of my friends have Searcy rifles, and have had zero problem with them for years now. However if they do, they are aware, because of the public note of Butch's standing behind his product, it will be a painless exercise.

Searcy is the rare company that you hear the good things about his taking care of his customers. The others you only hear about the cost, and trouble getting things done, by a second party in most cases, and the maker is left out of the post, other than the name of the rifle, like "I had a regulation problem with my Chapuis, but JJ re-regulated it in only six months just in time for my safari". Somehow Chapuis is not down graded, and the emphasis is on the quality of JJ's work. It's perception, nothing more IMO!

Well as a comparison - based on heresay and mates who own DR's, Australia being a small shooting fraternity, especially in the DR game, when Merkel's first came out over there, quite a few had "problems" of some sort or another.

Now I'm not sure how many were sold so don't know the percentage but it is a good comparison.

It seems most were minor adjustments as well, same as the Merkel's. It just takes longer to fix the others - as someone said, a long drawn out process and in one case of a mate of mine, very drawn out.

I think also that Searcy users on AR tend to be active and vocal, as well as Butch being readily available.

And in regards to the PH in wherever, it wouldn't matter what gun he had, he'd be in
the same boat in terms of getting it back to the manufacturer.


PS - I don't own a Searcy, have handled a couple, own 2 x Merkel's and I changed my view of Searcy DR's over time from negative to positive. Only putting my 2 cents in here as I think blaming Butch for the PH's gun problems is Bullshit.

I'm tending to think that the "repairs" that are spoken of may be, substantially, things like triggers...I want 3# in lieu of the the 4.5 it came with...and the fact that in the States you simply box it up and Fedex/UPS it to Butch...done deal. I have 2 Searcy doubles and they are great firearms. While I haven't owned any "vintage" doubles, I have had Heym, K-guns, Merkel and Demas along with my Searcys. I like Butch's rifles, period, and I do have a basis of comparison. I am NOT saying there was anything wrong with the other doubles...especially the Demas, fine gun....but Butch's guns are every bit their equal.
I'm sure there have been issues before on Butch's guns...as with most other doubles....but Butch is Stateside, offers real fast turnaround, and doesn't make you fart smoke rings by blowing it up your arse.
I like that.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I have a Merkel 470 and a Searcy 450-400. I sent the Merkel back to the manufacturer to have the front sight changed out and a fiber optic sight put on it due to my aging eyes. I paid all costs. It was gone a couple of months. I also didn't like the wood on the Merkel and subsequently sent it off to LeRoy Barry of Canyon Creek Custom Gunstocks, who does all of the restocking for Merkel, and had some gorgeous new wood put on it, along with custom checkering and a beautiful new metal pistol grip with a cape buffalo head on it. Of course, I paid all costs and it was gone 8 months. As to the Searcy 450-400 that I recently acquired, I bought it used, and Butch has assured me personally that if I have any problems with it to send it in and he would take care of it. He knew the prior owner and we discussed the reasons for its sale, which were financial. So, with that said, I am happy with my "new" Searcy.

You know, I don't own a DR (yet), but have long wanted one (just can't decide which kid ain't going to complete college and or which bill I won't pay).

For the record, even though I can get into a Merkel or K-gun for ~ $10k, I will only buy a B Searcy to help the one DR maker of note (that I know of) here in the "colonies". The British/Continental fancies be damned. Buy American.

Idaho - not so Sharp - shooter
here is a clue - look at the name of the post - Safaris Botswana Bound - yes you are getting warmer - thats it - you got it right - my company name is SAFARIS BOTSWANA BOUND - just like it appears. Now my name - the Graeme Butch Searcy refers to - its a clue - yes - getting warmer - well done thats it -my name is Graeme (Pollock )- I added the last part to help out a bit .

Now I paid $6500-00 in cash ( from my moms estate as this delightfull DR was meant to be passed on to my son ) and then the seller had an outstanding account of $4000-00 odd - so lets call it $10 000-00 all in - you get the papers I send you your Searcy - so shit or get off the pot . But after 30 years of working with people I know who buys the whiskey and who talks from the shitting pot.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
SBB,

are you embarrassed to post your real name and PH company here?

Tell you what I'd do, just to help you out. I'll be in SA in forty-five days. I will find out what the paper trail is to get that klunker back home where it belongs.
I'll BUY it from you!! Is that clear enough?

I'LL BUY THAT SEARCY DOUBLE RIFLE FROM YOU!!!!!

Is that clear enough?

My PH would be willing to walk it through all the paper trail shuffle and get it here to me.

Money talks, and bullshit walks. You going to take me up on the deal or should I just buy you a new pair of tennis shoes?

As my Grandfather told me more than once: "Shit or get off the pot!".

regards,

Rich

Butch - perception is another mans reality - my reality is I asked for help and was given the brush off - later only when I opened a post here did you offer some help. Your cronies attacked me for airing my grieviance. But i see they do that to anybody who has a different opinion to theirs - much like the anti hunters who's self opinionated arrogance is going to be the demise of our hunting in Africa. But back to the basics you say my lack of double experience cuased my problems - yup you are right 30 years of big game hunting is not enough to qualify me to handel a Searcy double no matter how many I have had to work with in my 12 years in The Game Department.
The only reason I opened this can of worms is because you misled people that the only other complaint was from a PH who wnated you to fly to Botswana to fix it - which is BS - I never said you should fly here I asked for help with the symptoms as it is near impossible to get the gun back to the USA - you shrugged me off in your booth. And I think you revealed the truth behind this shrug off in your last post - this was a second hand gun - not one bought directly from you ( I did tell you up front about this - I just never read you reaction correctly at the time ). Bottom line is I have 3 DR yours is the only one that gave problems from the word go. I have no doubt that if it worked it would be a great gun but it does not work . I love the fact thats its Amercian made but maybe its like the Hummer. So your loyal fathfulls will continue to attack me because your gun does not work - irrelevant that it was bought by a PH to work - so yes it sits in the gun safe - a very sad resualt.
Graeme Pollock

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
Graeme, Your leaving out some necessary facts that needs to be known. The problem was caused by your inexperience with a double rifle and the fact that you were using improperly prepared hand loads. I refer to the inexperience because when the top lever didn't return to the locked position you weren't aware that this needs to be checked especially with handloads.
So the most accurate double is in your safe, where it should be with a problem. If you had a problem with one of your other doubles what would you expect them to do to make you happy. Especially knowing that this was a second hand purchase. Oh yes, in your first post about the rifle you gave it raving reviews, after useing handloads and things go to shit.

I have my guy working on the paper trail as we chat here.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

Butch is really a neat guy, and he makes really high quality DR's at a working man's price.

Rich

With respect to the "working man's price', not anymore!

One of the things I have noticed about any thread on Searcy rifles is that everyone seems to be so well acquainted with "Butch." This raises some interesting questions. Does anyone know, how old is Mr. Searcy? If "Butch" IS THE COMPANY, what happens when he is gone? Without "Butch", is there a company anymore?

Searcy seemed to make a decent rifle in the $10-$15K price range. But yes, the man IS the company and all that wonderful warranty work (regardless of why it might be necessary) is not going to last forever. What I find really odd is the apparent elimination of "low end" guns from the Searcy lineup and the actual production of $40K plus guns. I'm sure this will bring out the Atkinsonian wrath of Butch (VERY bad business by the way...let the product speak, don't speak for it) and his followers, but for $40K (or even $20K+) I just don't see all that many people willing to move away from either classic Brit guns or a more established modern continental maker.

JMHO

Tendrams,
Your thinking is very flawed. In the last 5 years my orders have been at least 60% 20k and above. I currently have several 30k to 60k rifles on order, so again you fellows should not worry so much about me and my co. The elimination of the field grade was due to the work load I already had. The field grade might be reintroduced next year again. Currently I have 11 field grades to build this year, and that's enough for this year.
As to my friends and customers getting on here. They see through the lies and misinformation that is written here and as honorable people they feel the need to correct some of the comments made here.

tendrams:

I understand the motivation for eliminating the low end guns from the lineup. Searcy is aiming for a higher end market niche. With the introduction of guns like his new rising bite action, he can make fewer guns with a higher profit margin on each gun and his post seems to suggest that the market is there. To me, it makes sense for a smaller maker with limited production capacity to leave the "off the rack" guns which are produced in higher numbers to the continental makers like Merkel, Krieghoff, Blaser, Chapuis, and Verney-Carron.

Dave,

I get that....production capacity limits your profitability to what can be earned on margin. Result...try to produce higher margin guns. That doesn't negate the fact that approaching $20K+ is very VERY competitive territory and I don't see the Searcy classic as almost twice the gun of the PH. Further, $18K gets you a matched pair of Wiebe bolt guns no? $45K for a rising bite copy? Hmmm.....There are a WHOLE LOT of doubles on Champlins site right now under $40K and that price point gets you A LOT. I am not slamming Butch's guns by any stretch, I just don't think appealing to nationalism feeds the bulldog above about $15K. That's just a personal opinion, of course.

I have had the pleasure of speaking with Butch many times, and visiting with him at SCI more than once. This is a man who started a company with some machinery and a burning desire to build quality Double Rifles. He has progressed to a point thru hard work and after sale service to a position where he is regarded, world-wide, as the best DR builder in America. I believe he has realized that Chapuis, et al build entry level DRs at a price point he is not interested in competing against. That, due to the fact that he also does not wish to build 500 rifles a year. So, he is doing what the rest of us would love to do someday: catering to a clientele that has also moved upscale a bit and still desire some exclusivity.

Heck, I got a neighbor that fifteen years ago decided he'd rather sell quality purebred Limousine French cattle than range hereford mix. He got certified organic on his place and the feeds, etc and let the ground lay a year. Brought in 100 head, and makes twice the money for his 100+ hours a week running his ranch and marketing Organic Beef.

As far as SBB's ongoing rant, I have only posted here ten or so times (plus PM'ed him a couple times) with an offer to buy the rifle.
He says it is pretty much junk, and taking up space in his safe. I am offering assistance in creating space.

HELP ME OUT GRAEME, SELL ME THE RIFLE!!!


You can put me firmly in the Pro-Searcy camp. I bought one with my own money.

Rich

No reasons. My PH has one. Problems he cant get resolved.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
No reasons. My PH has one. Problems he cant get resolved.

Huh?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
No reasons. My PH has one. Problems he cant get resolved.

Huh?

Buliwyf went around every current thread and posted some garbage on each one.

Buli,

don't suppose that ph would be our buddy Graeme Pollack would it? How many times you hunted with him?
Oh man, don't keep it to yourself. Were you the client who took this DR to Africa and didn't know it had ejectors? Say it ain't so! Or 'fess up.
Are you the person who precipitated this whole shitestorm? Awwwww Buli.

It is all clear to me now.
If I read this right:
1. you bought the Searcy and went hunting with SBB.
2. you never fired it ahead of time.
3. you shot it, the empties flew out at MachII and scared you.
4. SBB provided you with reloads that were perhaps a bit, shall we say, WARM!! and locked the rifle up.
5. somehow he ends up with the rifle, perhaps in lieu of being paid for the hunt. Since he provided the reloads that may have caused the issues he couldn't very well refuse to do so. Then his SA blacksmith, errr, gunsmith messed it up a little more.
6. This would go a long ways towards explaining your anti-DR bias, and Graeme's attitude.

Please say it ain't so! What a fairy tale come true.

Can it really be?

Rich

Buliwyf went around every current thread and posted some garbage on each one.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like Buliwyf is a big old bull dyke with PMS and strong penis envy (to go along with double rifle envy).

Better watch out, that bad ass Rich from Idaho may open a can of whipass on her as he don't back down from nothing.

He got a vacation to go see his doctor. It looks like he stopped taking his meds.

Idaho - not so sharp - shooter

man - you continue to astound me with your perception (not)- if someone even differs with you - there is a conspiracy - crickey get a life man
Graeme Pollock

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Buli,

don't suppose that ph would be our buddy Graeme Pollack would it? How many times you hunted with him?
Oh man, don't keep it to yourself. Were you the client who took this DR to Africa and didn't know it had ejectors? Say it ain't so! Or 'fess up.
Are you the person who precipitated this whole shitestorm? Awwwww Buli.

It is all clear to me now.
If I read this right:
1. you bought the Searcy and went hunting with SBB.
2. you never fired it ahead of time.
3. you shot it, the empties flew out at MachII and scared you.
4. SBB provided you with reloads that were perhaps a bit, shall we say, WARM!! and locked the rifle up.
5. somehow he ends up with the rifle, perhaps in lieu of being paid for the hunt. Since he provided the reloads that may have caused the issues he couldn't very well refuse to do so. Then his SA blacksmith, errr, gunsmith messed it up a little more.
6. This would go a long ways towards explaining your anti-DR bias, and Graeme's attitude.

Please say it ain't so! What a fairy tale come true.

Can it really be?

Rich

speaking of "not so Sharp"...

Took you six friggin months to get back to me and compose a nothing post.

Since you have quoted me, I am going way out on a limb and assume someone explained it to you.

However, I am not seeing your truthful account of:
1. how the rifle came to be in your possession.
2. whose reloads you provided.
3. who was the prior owner.

I am going a bit farther out on that limb and guess that you are not going to say anything of note about this fiasco you have precipitated.
I wouldn't either if I were you. Your IQ seems to drop ten points every time. You are at room temperature now.

There is one major difference between you and I. The regulation loads for my Searcy came in an Email from Butch. And, they don't lock the rifle up...

regards,

Rich
DRSS

Gotta love the internet. Everytime a product is discussed the people that own one swear it is the greatest and the people that haven't owned one and other anonymous sources swear it is junk. Must be some mental disorder transmitted through the keyboard.

i dont own a searcy dbl rifle and probably never will. but it has been my wish to own one before i part this space ship called earth. im nearing 80 yrs. still hunt and if i only owned one for one hunt i would be proud to say i owned a butch searcy and from what i read and heard a more ethical honest man need not be sought. it all sounds like sour grapes to me. just my thoughts. regards

usps,

if you live anywhere near Idaho PM me. I would be happy to bring the Searcy 470 NE over for you to test drive.
There are fancier DRs out there, but I do not think any more functional and dependable.

Butch believes anyone who is willing to work for a living should be able to afford one.

Rich

There is a Searcy in 450 No2 for sale in the Classified Forum, at a great price.

idaho sharpshooter: i appreciate that offer but n.c. is a stretch. i do have a fine sauer sxs [1893 vintage] i hunt with. but i always thought to own an american fine sxs rifle would be the ultimate especially as fine a double as made by mr. searcy. he need not to take his hat off to any others he just gets better and most importanly he obviosly never lost his personal touch with his followers. regards

usps,
I'm in SC if you want to shoot/hunt with my Searcy 450-400.

Butch, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am curious as to whether Jumbo Moore ever got the problem with his .577 fixed.

Maybe you shouldn't wonder so much. Who is Jumbo Moore. I've never made a rifle for a Jumbo Moore.

thank you for the offers. true gentlemen a lost attribute in our present society. it means a lot. best regards