I had one of Butch's rifles-- it shot outstanding, I did not like the stock geometry--so I ended up selling it, but that is beside the point. I have called and wasted Butch's time on regulation loads and the like, and he always took the time to help me. He has great customer service.

BFJ, I like classic english guns, and find they are a fun to play with and maybe make a little money if you buy them right. Most of them are just getting flat out old! Alot of guys like to shoot now, and shoot alot (for fun, punch paper). There is nothing better than a new built quality double to shoot on a everyday basis. The tolerances are tighter and steel is better.

Bigdoggie700,

I handled that 577 that you had when it was at Cabelas. I wish butch would go back to that stock geometry. That was one of the better feeling guns I think he made.

Butch,

Keep doing what your doing, looked at your guns at SCI and they just keep looking better and better. I really like your underlever snap action!!!

Just my 2 cents. Peanut gallery continue!

Ed

quote:

My Searcy is on a UPS truck, somewhere west of Mesquite, Texas. Scenic route to Idaho I expect.

I'm surprised you are not out there hunting down that UPS truck. I'll bet they are stopping at every shooting range they find on the way and enjoying your new rifle. You know, they might not clean it and try to blame Butch for sending you a dirty rifle.

Seriously, it should arrive pretty soon. I am antsy waiting for mine too, so I sympathize.

I think it is great to hear that Searcy does such a good job standing behind their product.

My question is it typical to buy a new double rifle and then send it back for repairs. I have read on AR many times about a Searcy rifle going back for warranty repair. I have not heard about this as much with other makers.

Do other double rifle manufacturers need to repair theirs also?

I had a Merkel 470 that I took on 3 safaris and it worked fine. Sold it to another AR member and as far as I know it has not needed repair.

So do Searcy rifles have a higher need to get repaired as new compared to others or does it just seem that way in reading AR.

BigB

I think a lot of the reason that some (and I don't think it's many) go back for "repairs" is because they can.... kind of like a Savile Row suit... There is someone who can make it perfectly fitted, who is available and who won't charge you (after the original charge) to make it right.

Before my presently owned Searcy, I sent one back of four. That was to steam out a dent or ding and to touch up some scratches on the bluing from more than one safari... and yes, that's a repair, but not because of anything wrong in the way the gun was built.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Holy crap! Here goes the "AR heresay and alleged BS O-meter" off the scale again!

I know Butch, don't own one of his rifles....Lots of buddies do...All like them.

Unless somebody wants to post up "PROOF" (that is, you own a Searcy and have had unsatisfactory service) of any of Sercy's "alleged" misdoings, then Kindly take your "agenda" elsewhere.

Sorry fellas, just getting tired of people on this forum mouthing-off without any sound basis for their claims...

Keep-up the good work Butch!!!

JW

To answer B D 700's question of WHY I've piped up three times on this topic,

I took the above post as directed at me, at least in part. It motivated me to

give a detailed answer. If anyone can't figure out who the gunmaker is that I

refer to, and can't figure out which AR member that I refer to, well you're

not very active on this sight.

I would have to say that I know Butch better than probably anyone posting on this thread. I am not his best buddy nor an employee. As a matter of fact I will bet that he has wanted to wring my neck a time or two. I know for a fact that he would never allow ANY rifle to leave his shop that was off face or malfunctioning in any way. I also know his commitment to customer service is second to none! EVERY firearm manufacturer in the world has had problems with a gun at one time or another. Some of the time the problem is traced to the customer, sometimes it is the mfg's fault. What seperates these companies is what they do about the problem. There are two things that you always count on with Butch. First, he will never sugar coat anything. If its on his mind, he says it. Second, He ALWAYS stands behind his product!

Dirk Schimmel
Dirk@DoubleRifles.Us
1-307-257-9447

quote:

Originally posted by Nitrodave:
Rich...+1

Jack,
You chose a very nice double...had a nice restoration done by a gentleman who refers to Searcy doubles as "tough working rifles"(he and I have discussed many makers), and should be proud of your purchase. But before you let your nose get too high in the clouds, you might try shooting a Searcy. They truely are great shooting guns. Then, load some rounds and shoot that Osborne, you have owned for a year...
ND

I shoot mine, I've been buying the ammo. It
costs! Man it costs! Loading my own is soon
to happen I truly hope.
I personally, if buying new or nearly new,
would choose Merkle, Demas, or Heym depending
on what my budget was.
I am not happy that I could be seen as looking
down my nose at some one as if I was better
than the next guy.
I AM NOT BETTER THAN THE NEXT GUY. I did
thorough, THOROUGH, research and made a de-
cision.
At this point I'm out of this thread. I don't
foresee posting in future threads on the SEARCY
topic. If you don't worship him on AR you're
accused of making stuff up about him and or
spreading stories that you don't know are true.
I have complete confidence in the accuracy of
what I posted, in the vetting process that I
used, and in my decisions. I hope sincerely
that every rifle buyer receives one that does
NOT need to be promptly sent back, or for that
matter, sent back at any point. I want the very
best for the SEARCY firm, primarily because he's
American. And because he's American I hope my
present research becomes outdated and that I'd
want to buy a new rifle from his firm ahead of
all those I've listed. I am not kidding at all.
This is who I am. If it means Searcy raising
prices to bump up quality control or what ever
SO BE IT.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy700:
Big Five Jack
You all ready stated your opinion twice before in this thread, why do you feel the need to keep repeating your self. While you can stand by your position all you want too, which is certainly your right, you are in the vast minority on this site. I have owned a couple of Searcy's that I got second hand and as the majority on here, have had no problem with either. I still have the 700 and it shoots like a charm. Having owned more than my fair share of big bores, I will rate Butch right up at the top with a couple of other guys for his doubles. I sure hear a whole lot more positive about Butch than negative.

bigdoggy700 That says it all.

The wait is killing me! Just checked UPS (for the umpteenth time as my Grandfather would have said) and it is HERE! Okay, in Boise, on the truck, and scheduled to be at my FFL holder's store by 10am. By 10:30, out in the desert; Bang-Bang! Woo-Hoo.

Rich

Good luck, Rich.....and PICS!!!!!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Idaho,

Good for you. Your waiting paid off and now it is fun time. May your rifle be flawless and your groups superb.

Just to add one more user's comments on Searcy DRs.

Am an old guy who was "retired" earlier than expected when the company I worked for was acquired and then purposefully destroyed to reduce competition in the market.

I bought a used "before PH" field grade .470 NE Searcy DR. I shot it, loved it. Butch provided loading data and it regulated properly. Decided the rear trigger was just a little too light at 2 pounds. (Let me be clear ... it NEVER malfunctioned or doubled!)

I contacted Butch and he suggested I send it back. I did. He returned it with the triggers set to my requested 3 pounds. No bill.

If I ever have the funding to buy another DR it WILL be a Searcy!

I have it!!

And, it will go Bang-Bang, 30 second pause to reload and look at the empties, Bang-Bang. Just a hair over 2" at 50 yards off of sticks.

Who is the happiest man on this entire forum*?

Rich
* a hmmmm,that would be me

Reminds me of the saying..."kid in a candy store" !!! Congrats Rich!

Congratulations Rich! Butch does build an excellent rifle. If I make it down your way this summer, I definitely would like to see it.
Mike

See it? See it?
Man, if you make it down here we are going shooting that bad boy!

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have it!!

And, it will go Bang-Bang, 30 second pause to reload and look at the empties, Bang-Bang. Just a hair over 2" at 50 yards off of sticks.

Who is the happiest man on this entire forum*?

Rich
* a hmmmm,that would be me

It's like Christmas in February...

Congratulations Rich!
I know you will enjoy many great hunts with it.
Please post some pictures ASAP...
ND

About half an hour ago my lovely wife says "are you going to sleep with that rifle tonight...?". Silly question, eh?

All snuggled up in five minutes; just the three of us.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
All snuggled up in five minutes; just the three of us.

Rich

How's that? 2 Bores 1 old Boar and 1 bored?

It's just one of those things...

Rich

Now that we've established there are many good reasons to buy a Searcy, are there any ideas for new calibers or new projects those here would like for Butch to consider?

I've read and re-read my copy of Taylor's work on African cartridges so much I've nearly worn it out, but, in comparing the ballistics and loads I believe I've come to be a fan of the .476 Nitro Express. Would anyone else like to see that brought back in a Searcy?

According to Taylor it's actually a .510 bullet. It has reasonable pressure at 16 tons and more energy and bullet weight than many other popular ones like the 470, 465, 450s and 475.

And, I have a feeling there could be a market for the .475 #2NE on the grounds that the shell just looks BAD (in a good way)..

When I had Butch build my rifle I truly felt like I'd made a friend and not just a business transaction....before and after the fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
Now that we've established there are many good reasons to buy a Searcy, are there any ideas for new calibers or new projects those here would like for Butch to consider?

I've read and re-read my copy of Taylor's work on African cartridges so much I've nearly worn it out, but, in comparing the ballistics and loads I believe I've come to be a fan of the .476 Nitro Express. Would anyone else like to see that brought back in a Searcy?

According to Taylor it's actually a .510 bullet. It has reasonable pressure at 16 tons and more energy and bullet weight than many other popular ones like the 470, 465, 450s and 475.

And, I have a feeling there could be a market for the .475 #2NE on the grounds that the shell just looks BAD (in a good way)..

Its not a .510 bullet its a .476 bullet--heavy at 520 grains too. The best part of the round is its 3" case. I really love the round, and if I was loaded would order a WR in one tomorrow, but it does nothing that a 500 will not do. So its kind of a moot point.

Ed

I've been patiently waiting for that!!!
.475 #2NE

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
Now that we've established there are many good reasons to buy a Searcy, are there any ideas for new calibers or new projects those here would like for Butch to consider?

I've read and re-read my copy of Taylor's work on African cartridges so much I've nearly worn it out, but, in comparing the ballistics and loads I believe I've come to be a fan of the .476 Nitro Express. Would anyone else like to see that brought back in a Searcy?

According to Taylor it's actually a .510 bullet. It has reasonable pressure at 16 tons and more energy and bullet weight than many other popular ones like the 470, 465, 450s and 475.

And, I have a feeling there could be a market for the .475 #2NE on the grounds that the shell just looks BAD (in a good way)..

Any additional calibers would be really neat, especially if we can get Hornady to work out new loads that will regulate the older rifles as well.

Rich

Butch earlier mentioned that he has donated ten rifles to SCI over the years. My .470Ne is one of those ten, and came in a nice fitted black (leather I believe)case with red lining. It has the SCI logo embossed in a 4x6 inch oval on the lid, and its twin on the inside top. It is very nicely engraved as well. To me, that adds value that cannot be reduced to mere dollars and cents. It will be an everlasting tribute to its maker and to SCI. And a source of joy to me and memories of hunts as long as I can make it back to Africa and beyond.

Rich
pictures are coming...

505ED, I hope this is not too far O/T for everyone's taste, but I re-checked what Taylor wrote on the .476 and I think maybe I found one worthwhile distinction between it and the .500. It appears to have less recoil both in energy and fps. I used one of those internet recoil calculators and won't weary you with the exact figures, but it was significantly less.

So it appears old Taylor blew it on that .510 figure didn't he. He actually said that not only once but twice in his book. At the time I read it I thought the difference between .476 and .510 sounded odd. That's not just a slight variance afterall. I wonder if maybe neck diameters or something got confused. Bullet diameter of the .500 NE is .510.

He also said the .476 has a 3 1/4" case, which as you pointed out is off too. Could there have been something different out there in 1948 when he wrote that?

Anyway, he added that it was the only one in that group with which he had no personal experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
I've read and re-read my copy of Taylor's work on African cartridges so much I've nearly worn it out, but, in comparing the ballistics and loads I believe I've come to be a fan of the .476 Nitro Express. Would anyone else like to see that brought back in a Searcy?

For heavens sake NO!

The .476 Nitro Express was and i hope still is Westley Richards own caliber!

Searcy better develop his OWN caliber, that would be quite fun, why not a rimmed version of the .505 Gibbs case, 600 - 650 grain bullets at 2150 fps -The .500 Searcy Nitro Express

A proprietary Searcy caliber. Now there's a thought. Maybe a .480 NE. I've never heard of that before. Kind of like what Ruger did with it's own high power .480 handgun cartridge as an alternative to the .44, .454 and .475 and whatever.

.500 sounds good too, but to make it distinctive I'd suggest a .507, .508 or .509 or, what the heck, how about a .550!!

At one time Butch was talking about a 375 Ruger based round that was flanged. I am not sure if it ever went anywhere.

Husky,

one of these days you should take a .505 Gibbs case and run it into a .577/500 Magnum NE 3 1/4 case. What you end up with might surprise you. An amazing coincidence that it and the Gibbs case came out about the same time, isn't it?

I would love to see a Searcy proprietary cartridge, perhaps we need to start an Email campaign to get him to consider a .550 Searcy Flanged.
Just run a .577 3 1/4" case into a neck sizing die that would reduce the ID to .550" and go from there. Can't believe I beat Boom Stick to this one. I need to Email Butch quick!

Rich

I have a plan: 600gr Woodleigh softs and solids at an actual chronographed 2150fps. Can you all say "American Hammer"?

Idaho Sharpshooter,

Interesting thought. But the .577/500 is an old Black Powder cartridge only loaded with 440grain bullets at some 1850 fps...

But I agree that the .577/500 case would be excellent for making a proprietary cartridge for Mr Searcy.

The only significant 'gap' in the line of Flnged Nitro Express calibers is as you have identified between the .500 N.E and the .577 N.E.

Why not an .525 Searcy N.E or a .530 Searcy N.E shooting 600 - 650 grain bullets at actual 2150 fps from a 24" pipe?

Mr Searcy what is your opinion??

Husky,

close...

I believe you are referring to the .577/500 #2 Nitro Express. That one is 2.8" long, and was released as a BP cartridge in the early 1880's. The Magnum version I refer to is the almost exact same 3.13 oal as the 3.15 Gibbs and was introduced in 1905. Gibbs brought out the .505 just five years later. I ran a .577 3 1/4 inch case thru my Gibbs FL sizer. It would work, or the .577 could just be necked down to become a .577/550 Searcy.

Rich

I'm just trying to think thru the ballistics on a .550. Ideally the energy would be about 7K, so it would better the .500 and .505 and about equal the .577 and .600.

What bullet and velocity would it take to do that?

I still also like that other proprietary idea - the Searcy .480 NE. I'd make it the "King of the .400s". A 520 grainer at whatever it takes to yield 5,500 ft lbs, which is more than the 450, 465, 470, 475 and 476.

Now, for a third idea. How about something in a Field Grade (if they are resumed at some point) intended for close to medium range N.A. game of any size. Not too little nor too much. About 3,500 ft lbs energy in a flanged cartridge with a 300 to 400 gr bullet and about .35 to .40 caliber. The recoil would be mild and the gun real handy. Maybe an 8 1/2 pounder.

Fun playing around with these kind of ideas isn't it?!

Shack,

plug a 650gr bullet at 2150fps in to your calculator and report back!

Rich

Idaho, did you say you wanted stats? Ok...

Your suggested load with a 650 bullet @ 2150 yields 6670 (and some change) in muzzle energy. It also yields 58 recoil energy lbs. I suspect the recoil energy should be more. Some internet recoil calculators ask for the grains of powder but who knows which powder. I don't know if that messes up the result on recoil.

Anyway, the muzzle energy therefore would be above the .500 NE and the Gibbs .505, but below the Jeffery .500's 6,800.

Since we don't want our Searcy .550 Nitro Express to be underpowered, I upped the fps to 2200 and recalculated.

So, now it's a 650 bullet @ 2200 which equals 6984.12 bullet energy. That beats all the .500s including the Jeffery. The cost to our shoulders is 61 recoil energy lbs and 19 in recoil velocity (assuming the calculator was right).

As far as my Searcy .480 is concerned, a 520 grainer @ 2,185 would yield 5511.37 lbs at the muzzle, which puts it comfortably out front of the old traditional cartridges. This also beats the .458 Win and three out of five of the .458 Lott loads. The physical cost is 38 recoil lbs and 15 recoil fps (again, I suspect it should actually be more).

All this is assuming a 10 1/2 lb rifle. So, the next step I guess would be to look at chamber pressures. Someone else feel free to take over on that.

If the .480 existed as a proprietary cartridge I would give it some real consideration. With a .550 I guess it would be can it do what the .577 does only with less recoil, less weight in the gun and less cost of ammo.

Shack,

thank you for the data. However, we should not compare doubles to bolt rifles. A .480 would be a fine round, but the comparison would always be to the .470NE or .476WR. That is valid. The 550 Searcy would stand well beside the .577 or even the mighty .600 NE.

Rich

Im the PH Mr. Searcy is refering to here but I never expected him to fly to Botswana - I did expect assistance in the booth when I went to his booth to tell him about the double jamming after shooting and the AD more than once, I did get some support much later after posting the problem on this forum. Fortunately a Outdoor Channel TV camera crew caught the double seize up on a buffalo charge after the first shot. That combined with my own video crew catching it sieze up on a elephant hunt.
The good part of the episode is that I have moved on and purchased a Blaser .500 and Krighoff 500.416.
But hell if you want to revisit what it takes to get a firearm into the USA from Botswana for repair - phone your local customs - they will tell you about the 17 forms just from the USA , not SA or Botswana - they have their own gaunlet to run.
But flip lets not go there again - lest just say I have nice ornament in the .500 calibre sitting in my gun safe

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
I'd like to hear from them myself. Everyone knows my policy as taking care of the customer.
The only guys that have slandered me is PH's that thought I should fly over and fix or replace there rifles. And as you all know I can't fix it if it doesn't get to me.
In fact Terry Wieland relates a story about a PH in his second edtion about the problems Clive Eaton had with one of my rifles. The thing that he left out was that he had a South African work on it first, and left out the fact that I replaced the rifle at no cost to him. Clive came by my booth this year to tell me how happy he was with his rifle now. More to this story will be coming soon.

BigB - I own three doubles - one Searcy , one Blaser and a Krighoff - only the Searcy needs repair - every PH I know who has a Searcy has had to have repairs done to it. In fact we see this all over these pages and these REPAIRS are used as a testimonial for the good service - I would prefer a DR that needed no after sales service - given my experience.
But stand aside watch the attack its allmost like the response I get when I post hunting support on the anti- hunters support pages.

quote:

Originally posted by BigB:
I think it is great to hear that Searcy does such a good job standing behind their product.

My question is it typical to buy a new double rifle and then send it back for repairs. I have read on AR many times about a Searcy rifle going back for warranty repair. I have not heard about this as much with other makers.

Do other double rifle manufacturers need to repair theirs also?

I had a Merkel 470 that I took on 3 safaris and it worked fine. Sold it to another AR member and as far as I know it has not needed repair.

So do Searcy rifles have a higher need to get repaired as new compared to others or does it just seem that way in reading AR.

BigB