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Save your self a bunch of time and make sure you starting loads are 3-4 grains under what Butch recommends. It adds a new perspective as you can slowly see the rounds come together. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Yes I will work up to the recommended load.I might take one day and do just that. | |||
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Fellas: When a new double comes into my fold I know the regulated load from published data and what is on the barrel flats. Then, I look to my table of modern smokeless powder formulas to get a powder charge with the proper bullet weight. I back off about 5% and load 4 cartridges. When they print on the target I keep track of the rights and lefts. I should be shooting a bit wide. The next four are 2.5% less and the next four are what I think it should be. Sometimes I have to increase the charge a bit due to several variables such as bore diameter, bore wear, etc., With these steps, I have never had a double rifle that did not print a good target. And, my ammo usage is minimal. Targets are shot off a standing rest at 50 yards. After an accurate load is reached I never shoot off a rest again except for shooting sticks and off hand as that is what I will use in the field. But, what do I know? Just my three cents. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal Good to hear. Bar one gun that had a loose rib, I have yet to have a DR that I couldn't regulate within the same number of shots you use. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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505G and Cal Pappas , I'm not trying to stir. Genuine question. Have you messed with regulating Sabattis any ? I'm talking about the ones without obvious crown abuse. | |||
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Shootaway, if you will only listen, we can save you a lot of useless experimenting, not to mention money expended on unusable ammo! ......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I will start my shooting at 25yds and then move up to 50yds.I am going to get used to the sight picture before I shoot at 50yds. | |||
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Jan: I have not shot a Sabatti for regluation, only a .450-400 to evaluate for a potential law suit. I have given my recommended loads to a few Sabatti owners and they worked well. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Listen to what? 505 says a rifle will not regulate with one brand of primers and Mac says that it will not regulate with + or - 1 or 2 grains the recommended load. Cal says that he knows everything about shooting doubles but we have never seen of video demonstration of his skills. We have no video demonstration of 505's and Macs skills either. | |||
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Jan No, I have not shot a Sabatti for Regulation. A gun that supposedly shoots well and properly regulated is unlikely to be different. Now a gun that isn't properly regulated and / or demeled, well, that is a whole new ball game !!! Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Shootaway I did not say it "will not regulate with one brand of primer", it is one factor that might affect the load used. Some DR's do not like a certain brand of primer ! And I am pretty sure Mac didn't say what you have written that he said. He said WORK UP LOADS UNTIL YOU HIT THE SWEET SPOT that regulated in the rifle. Sometimes you can see the holes "coming together" on the target as you up the load. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Fellas: A few weeks ago I sold a .500 double to a gent in AK. I began with a light load and explained the group would shoot wide. And it did by 6 inches. The second set of 4 shots with 2.5% less powder shot 4 inches apart and the correct load given shot to the sights. He bought the rifle. I'm sorry, Shootaway, but I do not produce dvds of my double rifle work. However, I am near completion of my next book on doubles. It will be an into book on "how to know and do anything in the world of double rifles." I suggest you get a copy to read and digest. It give you many things to write about when you find fault or disagree with what I've written. For the rest of you gents, I will put out a request here on AR for your favorite photo of you, your double, and game taken with a DR. If you would like to seem your pic published I will try to include it. Shootaway, if you shoot another cow, use a double and I will publish your pic. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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But we all have seen a video of Shootaway's shooting, hunting, and game recognition skills. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal,unless you pick up your rifle and shoot it offhand at 50yds very well any book you make means nothing.Everyone can be an expert in their own mind.I am sure you can get people to buy your book for the only reason of trying to be your friend. | |||
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There you go you just said it-you said that it might affect the load used.Did you ever experience this?-I doubt anyone has-not even in the most accurate of benchrest groups. | |||
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Yes, I have experienced it. One DR just did not like anything but Fed 215 Primers. I vaguely remember someone else having a DR that also liked a particular primer. Maybe other factors were involved but it was easier to stick with what it liked and get on with hunting. Re "not even in the most accurate benchrest groups", my Win Mod 70 30.06 changes point of impact (and pressure) between Fed 210's and Fed 215's so you can't say it doesn't affect rifles. Going to Fed 215's with the same powder load as used with Fed 215's also caused over pressure - pressure signs and the odd burst primer. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Shootaway You are full of it. Apart from speaking with Cal once on the phone and a few PM's, I'd only heard of Cal via people I know who he has met and stayed with in Australia. Now, these people he stayed with, mates of mine know a hell of a lot about DR's, have probably owned more than most have had hot dinners (they started back in the late 70's when it was hard and unfashionable) and if after these short times they reckon Cal knows his shyte, then good enough for me as they can pick BS by the best. So when you get 100th of the knowledge he has, then open your mouth. Re "unless you pick up your rifle and shoot it offhand at 50yds very well any book you make means nothing." Well, I know quite a few people who can pick up most rifles and shoot them well unless they are that off fitting wise. Part of the reason for this is people who shoot Big Game Rifle Club shoots numerous different events with numerous different calibres, including borrowed rifles. Now as we all know, old English guns do not always fit perfectly and most are loathed to modify them, hence you become adaptable. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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An experience you are sadly never likely to enjoy. Mike | |||
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That is a crap comment. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Gentlemen, We've all seen what shitthisway considers an acceptable group. So is there really any possibility that he'll ever be able to get his double to regulate? He can't get a single barrel regulate to itself, how do you think two is going to turn out. Holy crips I feel sorry for Butch Searcy this is not going to turn out well and we all know for damn sure that shitthatway won't take responsibility for his negligence and lack of skills. He'll blame Butch. Once again folks in case you missed it. This (Ignored post by shootaway posted 04 December 2013 00:51) is the only feed back you should be seeing from the northern most moron. | |||
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Surestrike: Sound advise but I can't put him on ignore as it is great entertainment for me. I know many fine folks here only through posts, many I disagree with, but fine gents just the same. Shootaway in entertainment pure and simple. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Once again, why do y'all even respond to this moron POS?? Don't you get it yet? He won't. He's totally clueless. Let him wallow in his total ignorance and be done with it. Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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Surestrike That is a good point. being able to shoot a DR that shoots (regulates) requires someone to actually be able to shoot in the first place. In our comments above we have find of taken that for granted as a given !!! Yikes, lowest common denominator and all that. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Shooaway, you know not of what you speak. Primers, to a benchrest shooter (or any load for that matter)are as critical component as brass or powder. But, please feel free to show us your targets when you work up your magical loads in your Searcy. I am sure Butch will appreciate your endorsement. I would suggest that you may want to stay away from a case full of bullseye....oh, never mind. Dutch | |||
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`Nuff said.. LOL NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Searcy is going to be so filled with regret that I won't be surprised if he closes down shop and hunts the rest of his years away under an alias. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Actually this might be a huge selling point for Searcy! " It was declared junk by `Shothiswad' so you know it's gotta be good"   NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Hey Mike: If you will buy one or more of my books, I will be your friend. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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You're a funny guy  ..NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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OK Mike: I will still be your friend if you buy my books and gift them to Shootaway. Trust me, he needs them. You can post them or give them in person when he spends the summer at your house educating all of us on doubles!! Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Have you read Graeme Wright's book on shooting the British DR? You ammo looks like you have not crimped them. In case you need to pull bullets, you might find this useful. It looks ugly but it works for me - http://forums.accuratereloadin...231091491#8231091491 "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Once you set this die to crimp, the seater plug even at its furthest setting is enough to push the bullet past the seating grove.I need to find another die if I want to really crimp them.As far as pulling bullets,I am not a bullet pulling kind of guy.I leave that task to my rifle. | |||
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My RCBS safari dies in 500ne work a treat at seating and crimping the woodleighs into hornady brass right on the canulure. Don't know how they will go with CEB's as they are a little longer and I don't have much more adjustment left. Will load some over the break and start experimenting in the new year. Nick | |||
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I don't crimp my loads, including hunting loads but I make sure the brass isn't over expanded so it holds them tight. You said before that the cases held the bullets tightly, this should be enough to hold the bullet at this stage, down the range, not running around. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Well, once again Shootaway demonstrates his superior knowledge of double rifles but misses the big picture when it comes to advice and the subtleties of properly measuring a target. I will have you know that due to Mike's advice I avoided some costly mistakes when it came to purchasing a double rifle. I am very glad he helped me and found him to be a reliable source of information. I have learned a lot from Graeme Wright's books and from Cal's books too. Most shooters in Alaska are very happy to share their experiences. I will be happy to do the same. Please note that you have misinformed about the terminology used when discussing groups shot from a double rifle. The right barrel shoots a hole called the front hole. This is because the front trigger typically shoots the right barrel. The rear trigger shoots the left barrel so it is referred to as the back hole. The distance measured between the two holes is called the taint. I am sure Butch will be able to help you with all of this once you receive your double and start sending him pictures of your groupings. Don't forget to measure your targets and let him know that your goal is to have a 2" taint at 50 yards with a 1" taint at 100 yards as your ultimate fantasy for accuracy. From what I have seen on your accuracy post, your taint was all over the place. Avoid having you your back hole and front hole confused. Make sure you mark them on your target as front hole and back hole before you photograph them and absolutely measure your taint every time you shoot. You will be amazed as your holes get closer and your taint shrinks to only a fraction of what it once was. Cheers, Matt. | |||
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Yes they are really tight and the edge of the neck although not crimped is not sticking out.It seems it was slightly pushed in by the crimper.With a hold on the bullet like this I dont think they need crimping.I am going to throw some dummy rds on to the ground a few times to test and see how easily if at all the bullets are pushed in. | |||
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Impossible to confuse them, his back hole controls his personality. Mike | |||
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His back hole is his personality, Mike. Dutch | |||
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Gee, Matt, I started to read this in a serious manner then peed myself laughing. Lesson learned is that next time I see a post of yours I will wear Depends. See you and Mike at the gun show this weekend? Wasilla Menard Sports center on Church Road.I will have Table Sat. only. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Shootaway: If I read this correctly, the seater plug pushes to bullet too far down the case and beyond the crimp groove and you are unable to crimp the bullet. If this is so, place a washer between the die and the press. This will elevate the die a bit and your crimp groove will be available for use. Not too thick a washer or your crimp shoulder in the die will be set too high to utilize. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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