OK AR'ers,

I decided to go for the Jeffrey 450-400 that was alleged to have been owned by Elmer Keith.

Keith or no Keith, I like these early Leonard actioned Jeffreys...We'll see how she shoots by late afternoon...

...Report coming,

Jeff

Show us those pictures. Packy

Jeff

I remember somewhere it was listed but have forgotten.

Can you post a link to it if it was on one
of the web sites.

thanks

Keith's 450-400. I like the sound of that.

Keith

Jeff, congartulations!

I wish you'd have given me a little more notice. I'd have taken a later flight out of Odessa today (Saturday).

I look forward to seeing pictures!

I could have handled it!

Who can post pics for me?

JW

Obviously, you've got the DR in your grubby paws now. Too bad I don't know how to post pics no matter how many times I read the instructions.

I can post pictures. email them to me at rkmojo@aol.com

Jeff

Was this the one on GA a couple months back? If it is, very nice rifle, even if old Elmer didn't own it!

Yeah Jim, this is that one...

I agree, "Keith or no Keith" she's a keeper.

JW

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Yeah Jim, this is that one...

I agree, "Keith or no Keith" she's a keeper.

JW

I looked at that rifle, and even if it is one of the doubles Elmer had for only a short time, that is part of the fun of owning old double rifles, is knowing who owned them, and/or where they have been! You know, the old saying "IF THIS GUN COULD ONLY TALK, WHAT STORIES IT COULD TELL!"

In any event, it is a nice rifle, and worth owning, without Elmer's name attached! Congratulations!

I remember that gun, it was Elmers rock chuck rifle! It failed him miserably on Deer and Antelope!

Jeff,
Would love to see pictures of this beaut along with some of your Purdey .470!

Ray,

When did you own and sell this rifle? It is my understanding from fellow DRSS members that every rifle on the used gun market was at one time Atkinson owned...

Jim

Jim,

Here's the "Real" story behind this gun:

Jeffrey sold it to Ray back in '20, who then sold it to Keith, who then sold it to Taylor, who then sold it back to Ray, who then sold it to Keith again at a much higher price, who then sold it to Hemingway, who then sold it to Ruark, who in a rare drunken moment [sic] sold it to Capstick who was even drunker. It disappeared from sight after that...She later resurfaced when Ray found again it propping open a door at a pool hall in Marfa, Tx. (It was Ray's lucky day as he had just cleaned-up after fleecing a bunch of Wet-backs at a few hands of "Texas-Hold'em") This was back in the 80s. Ray then sold it to "Bullwinkle" who has since killed over 300 Dugga Boys with it, but got busted poaching in Keyna and sold it back to Ray for fractional cents on the dollar... (thus "Bullwinkle's" reluctance to post on the "Buff or Bluff" thread) and tell us how many he's shot.

...AND that's when I came in and bought it from a "Friend" of Ray's for 10 dollars on the cent.

Talk about provenance!!!

Actually 450 no.2 stole the rifle and actually shot that infamous gorilla in Dallas, at which time he was exposed and I took the rifle back and gave it to Elmer in trade for his then famous H&H Royal .465, which like all my double rifles I eventually traded for a horse that belonged Robgunbuilder..I still have that horse but am in heavy negociation with Rusty who wants to shoot and kill this good horse and mount him in his den. That, bwt, will be the 5th horse that I have lost in such a mannor, these internet guys shoot horses you know, which ain't so bad but they do it behind a high fence, and that's despicable!

I don't know how many 450/400 Jeffery rifles Elmer owned but I saw two at his home in Salmon in the 70's. One was the Corbett rifle and it was a sidelock. It is now in the Keith Museum at the Boise Cabela's store. The other was similar to Jeff's recent purchase but it had a recoil pad and if this is the same one it has been restocked. I would have remembered that much color in the stock. Also the pistol grip is cut deeper in the rear then the one I saw at Keith's. There is a picture of the two I saw there in Keith's book "Safari".

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:
Jim,

Here's the "Real" story behind this gun:

Jeffrey sold it to Ray back in '20, who then sold it to Keith, who then sold it to Taylor, who then sold it back to Ray, who then sold it to Keith again at a much higher price, who then sold it to Hemingway, who then sold it to Ruark, who in a rare drunken moment [sic] sold it to Capstick who was even drunker. It disappeared from sight after that...She later resurfaced when Ray found again it propping open a door at a pool hall in Marfa, Tx. (It was Ray's lucky day as he had just cleaned-up after fleecing a bunch of Wet-backs at a few hands of "Texas-Hold'em") This was back in the 80s. Ray then sold it to "Bullwinkle" who has since killed over 300 Dugga Boys with it, but got busted poaching in Keyna and sold it back to Ray for fractional cents on the dollar... (thus "Bullwinkle's" reluctance to post on the "Buff or Bluff" thread) and tell us how many he's shot.

...AND that's when I came in and bought it from a "Friend" of Ray's for 10 dollars on the cent.

Talk about provenance!!!

Damn, Ray!

I thought you were going to keep quiet about that canned horse hunt!

Rusty,

The problem with Ray's "Canned Horse Hunts" is that the "Canned" part is actually sombody's horse trailer...and it's usually parked at the same rope'n arena where Ray is trying to win big!!!

...Hmmm...I think I've got this all figured out...

I knew this thing would get out of hand!

As I recall several of those DRSS members and/or Ar members are now the proud owners of several of my old 450-400s and various other calibers and styles, that I sold when a good horse showed up..Whos next? '

You guys are just lucky that I have a "thang" for good rope horses, can't turn one down.

Yeah Ray, that's because we've culled-out all of the "weak'lins" on those canned hunts you have been covertly selling all these years!!!

JW

For whatever it's worth, I sold Keith a .577 Nitro detachable lock Westley Richards about forty years ago, never wrote down the serial number. I imported it from England, shot it twice and promptly advertised it, I think in Shotgun News. Never wrote down the serial number. But if it still has the original case the lid was full of air rifle pellets, some klunk had used it for a backstop.

Speaking of Elmer Keith doubles, I was at a gunshow in Yuma, AZ back in 1963 when they were held in the horse barn of the County Fairgrounds. Each person had a stall where he displayed his goods. As I went from one stall to the next, I saw this gun case sitting on the table, open with a letter pinned to the lid. Upon further investigation, I saw that it was a double rifle and my inquiry as to caliber discovered it to be a 450/400 Nitro. It was a boxlock, rather plain and I can't remember the manufacturer. I was impressed that it was an "Army & Navy" rifle found so often in the far flung corners of the former British Empire. I read the letter, and I will have to paraphrase it, said; To Whom it May Concern, This rifle shoots best with this Lyman (# bullet mold) and XX grains of IMR-3031. It went on to explain what shot best and at what distance. It ended, "Sincerely yours, Elmer Keith". I asked the fellow how much he was asking for it and he replied $800.00. I could have gotten the money quickly but it would have had me eating canned beans for two weeks. I politely deferred but have been kicking myself ever since (do the math, 44 years) because I have never seen one for anywhere near that price again. The last one I saw was at Abercrombie & Fitch in San Francisco and they wanted $5800.00 back in 1975. Please don't threaten to kick me, I've been doing it for you these last 44 years.

Don't feel too badly. I bought a Westley Richards drop lock 450/400, for about $3000.00, sometime during the late 70's or early 80's. Anyway, while I was off doing the lord's work, my wife, at the time, decided that she was not having as much fun as I thought she was having and divorced me after selling aforesaid rifle.Haven't been able to afford another since.