Everything else being the same...action, barrel length, trigger, stock and scope, which do you pick and why?

Question:
Which for you and why?

Choices:
257 Roberts
240 Wby

 

I would need to know intended use. Vary different in my opinion.

Well Donny, I think it is reasonable to say not for Eles, but with CEB #13 Solids anything is possible!

Intended to get those of us that have used them to comment intelligently and politely on the pros and cons of each in their own experience.

If you own or use a rifle chambered in one of these fine ctgs why did you choose it for the task at hand?

If you have no experience with either of these ctgs and are just a ........ BUGGER OFF!

240 Weatherby is no more or less than Weatherby's "knock-off" off the old 240 Holland and Holland with a lot more velocity.

A better way of getting a hyper-fast 6mm actually that the useless 244 H & H Magnum developed by David Lloyd.

257 Roberts is just a lower velocity version of the 25-06 and actually, in that it takes full advantage of a Mauser length action, the better for it.

So.

If you choose to shoot ONLY bullets up to 100 grains you'll probably be better served by the 240 WM (in fact probably just as well served by a 243 Winchester or 6mm Remington with MAX LOADS).

But if you choose to shoot heavier bullets of 117 grains and especially in the +P version better served with the 257 Roberts.

It is all a question, as the other poster said, of QUARRY and LIKELY RANGE. And what other calibres you have available to you.

For what I do in the UK I use a 6mm Remington and a 270 Winchester.

The 257 Roberts does nothing that my 270 can't do...but the 6mm Remington with 100 grain bullet does.

Now, if I had a 223 (or 22-250), and the next calibre rifle in my cabinet after that was a 308 or 30-06 then I'd consider a 257 Roberts.

For me the two cartridges have significant overlap in their potential uses so that takes me to the next factor which is availability of components and in my eyes the Roberts brass is more readily available than the Wby brass.
However if you have the hots for a 240 no rationalizing will make you NOT want it.
Good luck in your pursuit.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
For me the two cartridges have significant overlap in their potential uses so that takes me to the next factor which is availability of components and in my eyes the Roberts brass is more readily available than the Wby brass.
However if you have the hots for a 240 no rationalizing will make you NOT want it.
Good luck in your pursuit.

I read the other day that one can make .240 Weatherby brass by FL resizing 25-06 brass in the .240 Weatherby Die....I've not done this but would assume the use of a good heavy lubricant and a strong press

As to comparing the .240 to the .257 Roberts.....I'll take the extra 20 grains of lead any day.....and I'd wager that one will see no appreciable difference in the field! A prudently loaded .257 Roberts will shoot right on the heels of the .240 Wby any day.

I don't own a 240 Wby but have a 6 x 284 that should be rather close to that. I also have a 257 Rob. I like both. I agree that there is a lot of overlap in use. I shoot 70 gr. bullets from the 6mm and and 85 gr. from the Bob. Both are great varmit rounds. If I had to pick I'd say the 257 without doubt. This is the best small caliber in my opinion. Everything from Pdogs to mule deer it works great. You can go with the 117 gr. bullets for the bigger stuf or stay with the 85 gr. for varmits.

I got a matched set mdl.722 rem in 257 and mdl.721 in 300 H&H I think that has North America covered.

I have always had an unhealthy admiration for the Robts. I have an older one needs work, and just acquired a NIB Rem S/F CDL anniversary edition that I plan to shoot....a lot! One of my old buddies has 240s that I like too. Just wondering if I am missing out on anything by not having a fast 6mm in my arsenal?

To me the 240Wby does very little that a 6mm can't do with less powder. For me I'd take the 257 load it to the same pressure as the 6mm and have options of a little more lead if I need it. While still plenty of light options.

quote:

240 Weatherby is no more or less than Weatherby's "knock-off" off the old 240 Holland and Holland with a lot more velocity.

You're a little be off on that, Enfieldspares. The .240 WBY is fundamentally a belted .30-06 case (actually, a little smaller), whereas the .244 H&H is on a full length .300 H&H case of much greater capacity. The point is well-made, however, that there is very little difference in the velocities attainable with the two cartridges as both are somewhat larger than optimal bore capacity.

I have to agree with Donald Nelson that it is difficult to chose the .257 over the .240 unless you know what its intended use is. I like a 6mm much better for varminting, and a .25 cal much better for smaller big game species.

But the practical bottom line is that .240 WBY brass and ammunition is expensive and scarce, making it a somewhat impractical caliber for a rifle you intend on shooting a lot. I also believe that the Weatherby freebore and radiused shoulder are not particularly conducive to good accuracy. If I wanted a .240 WBY (which I considered once), I would instead opt for a 6mm-06 as a much more practical solution.

Ah! You've confused the 240 H & H with the 244 H & H STONEY...check COTW and you'll see that the 240 Weatherby is indeed a "knock off" of the 240 H & H (perhaps better known as the 240 H & H Apex). Also a belted case.

I've measured them side-by-side and there is but .003" in base, rim, and overall case length difference!

Both are, as you guessed, not much more than belted 30-06 cases, a little smaller I guess to give an meaningful forward thickness on that belt...but retaining the parent 30-06 rim diameter. 240 WM is .472" and 240 H & H nominally .467".

Holland's were quite familiar with the 30-06 although here in England it was known as the .300" US Government or just .300"

Roy Weatherby appears just to have "blown out" the 240 Apex (240 H & H) no more no less to get his 240 WM.

244 H & H is, as you say, a different - and horrible - cartridge based on the 300 H & H.

I happen to have two 240 WM's(Springfield and Enfield), one Bob (Mauser), 5 243's (various) and a 6x284 (single shot bench gun). I've had several 25-06's over the years but never warmed to them.

My observation from quite a lot of shooting is that the larger 6's are a real cut above the smaller ones and the Bob. The difference is that the 25 can handle a 120 gr bullet. My personal opinion is that with premium bullets, that makes no difference.

I also think that bullet weight makes a huge difference. If you limit yourself to the lighter bullets for varmints, your practical range is limited by winddrift. There is very little difference between the performance of these cartridges using light for caliber bullets. If you go for max weight for big game, the larger cases outperform.

One error stated above is that the 240 WB actually has no freebore. It was designed that way for increased accuracy. Performance is therefore the same as the 6x284 and 6-06. No better or worse.

As to case availability, I have two stores within a mile of my home that carry all the Weatherby brass, yet I have to order 7x57 (a world standard supposedly) because no one in 50 miles carries one case or round of ammunition. As to cost, it is pricey, but not a lot more than I pay for the Nosler premium brass for 243, since the ccommodity cases are so crappy. In the whole scheme of things, the availibility and life cycle cost of brass is never much of an issue unless it is a really esoteric cartridge.

I will throw out one more kicker. I recently bought a 257 WM 'cause I had never had one. Bought the cheapest one they had on sale at Sportsmans Warehouse. Put a 4-12 I had on it and took it to the range. This $300 off the shelf rifle with a box of 100gr non-premium factory loads shot 3/8" groups, had mild recoil and is probably the flattest shooting factory round in existence, if hunting for antelope through deer size game. I wouldn't use it for target or varmint shooting due to barrel wear, but to launch those one or two shots at a trophy buck, I can't think of anything better. It is accurate, top of the heap performance, and weighs less than any of my mauser based sporters mentioned.

Bottom line is; buy a gun to hunt with and buy a varmint rifle. If a gun is set up with the weight, trigger, stock and barrel specs to be a serious varminter or bench gun, its going to be a poor deer rifle no matter what cartridge you use and I guarantee you won't be carrying it when you get a shot at a deer. The reverse is also true. The whole all around gun thing is way overblown.

I voted for the Rob.Long shots are extremely rare where I do 95% of my hunting and I have plenty of 7x57 brass I can re-size for it.

Zero meaningful difference. Today I prefer the bob. Ask me tomorrow. I'd hunt either one and never care the difference. As long as I loaded the ammo.

quote:

If you limit yourself to the lighter bullets for varmints, your practical range is limited by winddrift.

That's an interesting point that I had forgotten about. My brother was twenty years in the British Police as a "sharpshooter" in our equivalent of the US SWAT.

He said that whilst many units trialled the 243 Winchester as a "sharpshooter" rifle they ALL declined it after trialling it at longer ranges on a WINDY DAY...

Quite simply, as the earlier post reminded me, the wind drift problem became all too apparent.

If you are going for really long shooting, a fast twist 6 with 107 VLD's will really shine. That's where the overbored 6mm cartridges really come to the front. Even better is a high BC 6.5, but that is just too much for varmint hunting.

I never have had the 257 Bob, but like my 25/06 and really like my 257 Wby.
My custom 240 Wby that has worked very well on 5-6 antelope and a hand full of coyotes. I think it is a very underrated cartridge.

Enfieldspares: My apologies for failing to read your original post more carefully. I failed to note that the first cartridge you were speaking of is the one more frequently called the .240 Apex on this side of the pond. And you are correct, the .240 WBY and Apex are essentially the same cartridge.

Art: I haven't been able to find a SAAMI drawing of the .240 WBY chamber, so it may be correct that it does not have the usual Weatherby freebore. Regardeless, I would contend that a 6mm-06 makes a much more practical cartridge if one wishes a 6mm of this approximate case capacity.

First off my name is Don not Donny witch I am sure you used to belittle my comment. Second my wife's Uncle has both a .257 AI and a .240 WBY and I have a .257 AI. Personally I have thought of building a 6-06 for reasons already mentioned as it is cheaper and easier to feed than the .240 WBY.

As for intended game I want the fast 6mm for ground hogs. I built the .257AI because I like to start at .25 caliber for anything I might use for deer. Not that 6mm is not capable of adequately killing deer but I prefer to stay a bit heavier. Plus at the time of the build I would not justify building a rifle only for groundhogs.

quote:

Regardeless, I would contend that a 6mm-06 makes a much more practical cartridge if one wishes a 6mm of this approximate case capacity.

I'd agree. In fact I guess even H & H were a victim of "if it ain't got a belt it ain't a magnum" with the 240 Apex! A 6mm-06 - with maybe the neck made slightly shorter and the shoulder moved forward - would have been a far better cartridge!

Having used the 8x60S cartridge I actually reckon (because you could seat the bullet out - more room in the magazine well - and it has a shorter neck than the 30-06 so the body capacity is practically the same) that the 8x60S necked down to 6mm would be superb!

A 6x60S!

The Roberts is ahead in the polls with 92% of the vote......it seems we now know why the
240 Wby is not a great selling round.

I'll cut the lead down--I like the 240!

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Enfieldspares: My apologies for failing to read your original post more carefully. I failed to note that the first cartridge you were speaking of is the one more frequently called the .240 Apex on this side of the pond. And you are correct, the .240 WBY and Apex are essentially the same cartridge.

Art: I haven't been able to find a SAAMI drawing of the .240 WBY chamber, so it may be correct that it does not have the usual Weatherby freebore. Regardeless, I would contend that a 6mm-06 makes a much more practical cartridge if one wishes a 6mm of this approximate case capacity.

Here you go Stonecreek:

A little something about wind drift. There are many things that influence the drift. One that I think is important is the time of bullet flight. The shorter time the bullet is in flight the less time the wind has to act on it. I see many make that mistake when comparing a smaller caliber to a larger one with a heavier bullet.

I voted 240, mostly because I am in the process of putting one together.

Honestly, I have never seen these two cartridges in the same arena. I like the Bob, and almost bought one, but really its like comparing a 358 Win and a 340 Wby. They'll both kill an elk deader then dead, but they are totally different rigs.

If I was in the South/East/Midwest or wherever that white tail hunting was top priority, I'd have a 257. I'd even consider one for a mule deer rifle, but personally would rather have the 25-06. The 240 though, if a light game, long range weapon. Mine, will be a long, heavy, fast twist, high quality barrel put on a fairly heavy stock set up like a varminter. It'll be my goat gun. I have never seen someone set up a 257 that way, as a near bench rest rifle, because it doesn't really lend itself to that type of platform. To me a Bob is a shorter barrel, light weight gun. Easy and handy to carry all day.

quote:

I have never seen someone set up a 257 that way, as a near bench rest rifle, because it doesn't really lend itself to that type of platform. To me a Bob is a shorter barrel, light weight gun. Easy and handy to carry all day.

I have never seen someone set up a 257 that way, as a near bench rest rifle, because it doesn't really lend itself to that type of platform. To me a Bob is a shorter barrel, light weight gun. Easy and handy to carry all day.

I know where there are two .257AI's set up that way. Mine and a friend at the club.

I have a 240 wby I built off a tang safety Ruger 77. I put a Douglas 26 inch barrel on it, and I reload for it. Currently, it is my wild hog rifle in CA and has never failed me. I shoot 95 grain TSX's out of it, and it puts pigs down as if you were punching them with something bigger.

Before one of you challenges me on the 95 grain TSX, I bought a whole bunch of them when Barnes realized the slower 243, and 6mm Rem's had trouble stabilizing the 95 tsx, so they went to a 85 tsx.

It always amazes me when someone crys over cartridge cost, either you want the cartridge or you dont. Myself, I buy a 20 cartridges on occasion and move on.

Just for info, the new Wby Vanguard 2 will be available in 2012 in 240 wby mag with a 24 inch barrel. Dont let that stop you as my Vanguard 257 wby in 24 inch barrel outruns my Rem 700 257 wby with a 26 inch barrel. Furthermore, if you loose any velocity, it will only be about 30-50 fps per inch. Not a big deal.

So would I take a bob, absolutely not, it is not a good Western US cartridge for long range shooting. Were I in the south where they sit in trees and shoot no further than a 150 yards, sure, the bob would be fine. It's a great ole cartridge, but for any of you that think your 243 or 6mm Rem is close to the 240 wby.....dream on.

Aggie that new Vanguard 2 is a bit of a thorn in my side...I REALLY wanted to build one...but dang it, Vanguards are so damn accurate and cost about as much as a threaded barrel would lol

I'd not buy or build anything that requires Wby brass. Not worth the bother to me. The extra powder and muzzle blast are a con that outweigh the pro for slightlt higher velocity.

If I wanted to shoot a long way and had the money to consider a toy specifically for that I'd build a Cheytac.

For all around just plain love the way it works kind of rifle.... I'd pick a .257 Roberts over many others. If you build it to suit you it will be your new fav. A beautiful walnut stocked, blued with classic lines, folding irons, QR scope of lower magnification, SWEET!

Or how about a lightweight EDC? (Every Day Carry) Think Accurate Inovations stock, stainless barreled action of light profile, with a 2.5x8 Leupold.

The two have different uses..The 240 is balistically the king of the 6mms more or lessm, and it ranges way out yonder and lands without much punch if you get too far, it it bad about blood shooting game, and it can blow bullets up on impact so be sure and use Noslers or Monolithics is pretty good advise..I'm not at all fond of it, but then I'm not much of a 6mm fan other than the wonderful 6x45..

The 257 Roberts is a mild recoiling, light on muzzle blast and low on recoil and its a Mule deer or even elk caliber out to 300 yards with proper bullets. Most any female or child can shoot it well and it kills quite well. It would be my preference and was for many years in my later youth days, albiet I always returned to the 250 Savage as my all time favorite 25.

257 for sure. I dont waste my $ on barrel burners and it is easier to obtain 257 brass. I never did care for the absurd radiused Weatherby shoulders either. I view that as nothing more than a disfunctional sales gimmick.

257 Roberts a classic deer cartidge for sure. As far as the Weatherby's go, I always thought the 300 and 375 were the class of the Weatherby cartridges and really haven't been surpassed to this day. I do agree that the Weatherby shoulder is a gimmick though ...

1. do not own a 240 Weatherby
2. Am not an overbore, or Weatherby fan.

I still just don't see the point of comparing the two to be honest. Not to offend the OP...but I mean...that is like comparing the 358 Win vs the 340 Wby. Yes, they can be used on the same range of game, but they are just in totally different leagues. And there is nothing wrong with that, just, an odd comparison. Maybe more appropriately is the 22 Hornet vs the 225 Win?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I read the other day that one can make .240 Weatherby brass by FL resizing 25-06 brass in the .240 Weatherby Die....I've not done this but would assume the use of a good heavy lubricant and a strong press

Unless you can find some 25-06's with a BELT on them, it's NOT going to work!

DM

The 257 Roberts is a favorite of mine.

quote:

Originally posted by DM:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I read the other day that one can make .240 Weatherby brass by FL resizing 25-06 brass in the .240 Weatherby Die....I've not done this but would assume the use of a good heavy lubricant and a strong press

Unless you can find some 25-06's with a BELT on them, it's NOT going to work!

DM

Have you tried it?

Are you asking me IF i fired a unbelted case in a belted case/chamber?

NO, and i won't be anytime soon.

DM

quote:

Are you asking me IF i fired a unbelted case in a belted case/chamber?

Nope....I'm asking if you have tried to resize a .25-06 case to .240 weatherby.....as you stated can't work

here's my statement:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I read the other day that one can make .240 Weatherby brass by FL resizing 25-06 brass in the .240 Weatherby Die.

and your statement:

quote:

Unless you can find some 25-06's with a BELT on them, it's NOT going to work!

My question again is.....Have you tried it or have experience with it?

Try reading my previous answer... That way you won't have to keep repeating your question...

DM