quote:

Ignored post by DM posted 23 December 2011 17:09

When you can't answer a simple question!

Well, I had to try it. I have read all my life that 06 rounds could be resized to make a weatherby 240. Since this popped up here again, I tried this afternoon. I used a once fired 25-06 Remmy case, Redding dies and a Redding Big Boss II press. Not the biggest and baddest, but more substantial than most. Liberally coated with sizing grease, and run it in about a half inch at a time. I haved a formed case with a perfect belt, but it is about 3/4" up from the head of the case. I simply couldn't go any further, since I was supporting my 250 pounds off the ground on the press handle. No sticking or problems, just wouldn't go any farther. A bigger press might do it, but it would be a bear to go to the bottom. A new unfired case would likely help too, but my personl opinion is that it is not too viable a way to get Weatherby brass. The thing that has always concerned me is that if you do this, it seems to me you would have a weak spot in the brass just ahead of the belt. With a true 240, you have a very thick web and belt, with the case wall flush with the inside of the belt. I believe if you reform an 06 case, you will have an inside step just ahead of the belt, which would likely be worked hardened to beat the band (brittle) with no way to anneal it. I would be highly afraid of case separations.

This whole argument goes on about all kinds of cases, but the truth is, as long as it is manufactured somewhere, case cost is a non-issue for most people. People who buy a 700 Remmy at Walmart once in their life don't shoot over a couple of boxes a year as a general rule. People who shoot a lot usually own a lot of guns and shoot each of them a little. By a little I mean a few hundred rounds a year at most. That being the case, the cost of one cartridge over another is miniscule. The exception is a benchrest or target shooter, but they are into perfection to the point they generally use premium cases anyway. I for one wouldn't spend $1000 to 5000 on a custom rifle and make the decision on caliber based on $0.75 vs $1.50 per case. I haven't bought a piece of brass locally in years, mostly because the choice is so limited, and it is cheaper on line. If I wanted either Roberts or 240 WM, I could have it in the same amount of time, at discount. The Sportsmans Warehouse across the street has both loaded rounds in stock. $34 for the Roberts in a semi premium load, and $42 for the 240. They have brass for the 240 but not the Roberts (and nothing of any kind for the 7x57). As popular as the Roberts is with gun cranks, there are really not a lot of them built, and the chances of finding ammo in a crossroads store is low.

Given the facts of modern marketing, brass is just a non-issue in picking a cartridge.

Art S
Thanks for that reply....I was almost going to buy a die set to experiment with it....but your trial will now save me from that expense...

Thanks again
vapo

Vapo & Art S.

Interesting information, I have learned something new on this fine X-Mas Eve morning.

I still think I would just buy some 240 Weatherby brass if I was to build one, rather than mess around with the outline procedure.

quote:

I have learned something new on this fine X-Mas Eve morning.

probably because you came here with an open mind....

FWIW...I've learned a lot on these forums in many areas of firearms in general.....but the art of gunmaking is the cream of AR....beautiful stuff

Well, I couldn't leave it alone, so I tried again. I didn't have any new 25-06 or 30-06 brass, and the 280 AI is a problem, so I decided to try an easy one and form a belt on a 250 savage case(new Remington). I couldn't even start the belt on that case. I thought the problem might be the Remington brass being hard, so I thought it over, and pulled out a new Nosler Custom case in 243. This had everything going for it. Short length and body taper meant no resistance from the body. Correct bullet diameter meant essentially no resistance from the neck button. The only thing required would be forming the belt, and the Nosler brass is generally considered easy to size.

I lubed it up wth Unique sizing lube. Ran it in till it resisted. I then pulled it out, cleaned it, relubed and did it again. I repeated this until I was taking my weight off the floor and could put no more preasure on the round. Same result. Still over a quarter inch from where it needed to be and couldn't go any farther.

While this might work for some combination of components, I don't think it will for a lot of setups.

The 257 Roberts is a great old cartridge, were it anything more than that, rifle manufacturers would still be producing rifles in masse, in this caliber.....but they arent............

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
The 257 Roberts is a great old cartridge, were it anything more than that, rifle manufacturers would still be producing rifles in masse, in this caliber.....but they arent............

In my opinion as the baby boomer age and still want to shoot, calibers like 250 savage and 257 Roberts will make some what of a comeback. I have one 250 a 257 AI and a bob. Lots of bigger rifles that are shot less and less each year as I age. FS

ArtS
I have a set of Pacific durachrome 240 dies. I have little trouble sizing a 25-06, though at 5'8" and 200# I have arms that make gorillas jealous.
But... mine leave a shave of brass that has to be filed off the belt. It can be done but a PITA. I would say differant brand dies act differantly.
I bought a belting die from C&H, a single die, it worked very well. I made up a pile of belted cases for my 400/375 belted nitro project and sent it on to OZ to a pal with a .240
I may get another and build a 240 myself!
I have no problems with the belted brass, in fact I've never worn one out other then the necks splitting eventually.
Just thought I'd add my experiance.

quote:

Originally posted by Fasteel:

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
The 257 Roberts is a great old cartridge, were it anything more than that, rifle manufacturers would still be producing rifles in masse, in this caliber.....but they arent............

In my opinion as the baby boomer age and still want to shoot, calibers like 250 savage and 257 Roberts will make some what of a comeback. I have one 250 a 257 AI and a bob. Lots of bigger rifles that are shot less and less each year as I age. FS

Yep, I hava a 250 3000 myself, and hunted for years with a friend who crippled more deer than carter has pills....with a 257 Roberts.

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
Yep, I hava a 250 3000 myself, and hunted for years with a friend who crippled more deer than carter has pills....with a 257 Roberts.

This is a testament to your friends lack of shooting skills.
Put a 240 Wby in his hands and you would have the same results, put a 7 mag (or insert your favorite whiz bang Magnum) in his hands and I'm sure the results would be even worse.
Your statement adds nothing to the discussion.

I reloaded 100 gr factory ballistic 250 Sav in a Sav 99 for an ol' boy who killed everything from chicken thieving dogs to moose...open sited...one shot per most of the time...and NEVER lost an aminal...old school ways wouldn't allow that sort of acting.

I never had any trouble taking deer with a 22 LR...I'm old school also.

I've had 2 250 Sav and one present day 250 Sav AI and I don't have/had any trouble taking deer, but I don't gut shoot them or expect a shot off tail to get the job done. DON'T blame the gun OR the case/caliber.

Luck

I have used the Roberts for a few years now, having taken a few hogs, several antelope and a good number of deer with it. It is in my mind almost the perfect deer round for distances of 300 yards or less. I have a fixed 6x scope on mine, which also limits my shooting to about 300 yards on deer sized game. I have pretty much settled on 100 grain bullets but have used the heavier bullets in the past.

quote:

This is a testament to your friends lack of shooting skills.
Put a 240 Wby in his hands and you would have the same results, put a 7 mag (or insert your favorite whiz bang Magnum) in his hands and I'm sure the results would be even worse

Must be talking about Hot Core again...

Well I learned something new too. I had no IDEA that you can form a belt with a sizing die!! Cool!

BUT, isn't the head diameter smaller on a non belted case than on a belted one? Howz that workout?

Seems to me that you are doing a lot of stretching and thinning in places that you really don't want to be doing so.

quote:

Originally posted:
The 257 Roberts is a great old cartridge, were it anything more than that, rifle manufacturers would still be producing rifles in masse, in this caliber.....but they arent............

I don't believe quoted post is really very deep in its demonstrated understanding of why various cartridges and chamberings are popular.

Human nature is such that young people (could be anyone less than middle-aged) always think that they are brighter and more knowledgeable than those who came (and went) before them.

That being the situation, new things always have at least some bit of a market for at least a little while, and fairly often become a 10-to-20 year "fad".

It is that way with cartridges, just like everything else. While the new items are popular, the old ones fade into the twilight of the market. If they get far enough into the darkness, they get discontinued, maybe for a while, maybe forever.

That's life (and death) for products. But it certainly does NOT mean the old products were not good ones...in many cases better than the new, "economically viable", ones.

A good example was the .30 Newton. It was a great cartridge, introduced to Americans right at the start of the first World War, unfortunately. It was essentially an 11.2 m/m German case necked to .30 calibre and provided in a .30-06 length action.

The modern eqiivalent is a .404 Jeffrey necked to .30 and shortened to '06 length. An even more recent almost exact duplicate is the .30 Ruger...the .375 Ruger case necked to .30 calibre.

The Newton was producing better than .300 H&H ballistics years before the .300 H&H was introduced in American factory rifles in 1937 by Winchester....and about 45 years before the introduction of the .300 Winchester Mag.

Considering that, take a look at the .240 Wby.


Will it actually do anything practical which the old .257 Remington Roberts won't do? Not really, for most shooters. The .240 is just better hyped right now, even though brass is way harder to come by.

But it does provide bragging rights for those who want somthing other than what the "crowd" shoots. So, for many, especially the young who are still establishing their personas as individuals without losing any significant performance, that is a completely valid reason for having one.

No "right", no "wrong" with either one. Each person choosing one or the other has committed no error, so long as they don't expect their choice to be significantly better than the other.