I have just taken delivery of my latest project (.300 WM target/varmint) and my attention has turned to building a medium-range varminter. I've got a Ruger 77 Mk II in 7-08 that produces very ho-hum accuracy that will serve as the base for this project. I am a long-time fan of the quarter-bore and am looking for some suggestions for accurate .257 wildcats. The .250 Humdinger looks interesting, as does the .25-284. My only requirements are 1/2 m.o.a. accuracy or better and not maving to rebarrel every 1000 shots. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I have no clue as to the 250 Humdinger.
While a good 257 Roberts is hard to beat. The 25BR was shot by several Benchrest shooters over the years. Accuracy was very good. The 25-284 like a 25-06 will burn a lot more powder. For what you are talking the Roberts or BR case will give you plenty of capacity.

While I have owned and shot a .257 Ackley for nearly 20 years, I would have to say on a medium action I would go with the .25 Souper if I rebarreled it tomorrow. The fine quality brass available for Lapua (think .243 necked up) and you are done. Velocities and accuracy will be a function of barrel and gunsmith quality, while feeding issues will be non-existant. It will do all a quarter bore could be asked of, and do it for more than 1,000 rounds. I should add that the .260 Rem may be a better choice as the variety of quality bullets and higher BC's offer a bit more diversity. Diversity is something you need when hunting on the Brokeback Mountain...

257 Roberts or 250-3000, or the AI version of either.

Isn't there a 25 DRG or DGR based off of the same case?

Check this out
www.duanesguns.com

257 Roberts loaded with a 85gr Ballistic Tip to about 3100fps is a real varmint killer. Shot a coyote with mine at 140yds yesterday morning and saw gore exit and a red mist through the scope. The coyote never knew what hit him.

I'd build a Roberts or an AI Roberts. I can't think of a better description of it's capabilities. I use the 75gr Hornady HP for coyotes and 100gr bullets for deer. It is one of the most overlooked cartridges I can think of. Nate

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
257 Roberts or 250-3000, or the AI version of either.

Either one of these in the AI version gets my nod. I own one of each. The .257 is on an old Ruger that I bought in 1977 and the .250 I did a few months ago on a swede action. The .257 has been my go to deer and elk rifle for 25 years and if you like the quarter bore I think either one is hard to beat. Read what Sierra thinks of the 250-3000 AI in their latest reloading book. It's what they use for accuracy testing of 25 caliber bullets. Jim

The 25-284 will give you the most bang for buck in a short action. No fireforming required either. The brass is very strong and as "inherently accurate" as any other cartridge listed here.

I'd look at a 250 Savage AI. The Ruger 77 short actions are too short IMHO for the 257 AI. I know people who have rechambered 77 250 Savage rifles to 25-284 with good results.

In my quarter bore experience, limited to only the 25-06 and the 257 Roberts, I only have one suggestion. Although the half inch consistent group will be about a quarter inch beyond, GO BOB!

I'd say that if you are looking at a turn key kind of rig, I'd go with the straight .250.

If you want to be the very first, then look towards the new 6.5X47 Lapua case. Neck that case down with no other changes and there you go. The advantages would be the best quality Lapua brass and the fact that you would be the very first. The only disadvantage I see would be the cost of the custom reamer and dies.

Gabe

I'd agree with the 250 Savage crowd, or the 260 Remington crowd....

I have the 260 in a Rem VLS.. it does have a lot better bullet selection and is only .007 more in diameter than a 25 caliber... ( .264 vs. .257)

I have known a few guys with .25/284s.... they each complained of short barrel life, and after that barrel fried, they replaced it with some other caliber... not going for another 25/284....
one sent a barrel back to Shilen with an inch plus of throat erosion after 400 rounds thru it...

As far as the 6.5 x 47 Lapua.... I think its velocities would be too pedestrian for the average varmint shooter....domestic brass can be made by necking up the 222 Rem Mag or the 204 Ruger...

I see it as best as a light hunting bullet, for smaller deer at ranges of 200 yds or under... which is just fine.. but you can accomplish that by downloading a larger cartridge like the 6.5 x 55 or the 260 Rem...
a 25/08 would be the easiest if you had to have something a little different....
I get 25/06 velocity out of a 260 Remington case... so the 25/08 shouldn't be much different....

good luck,
seafire

My vote is for the 22-250 or the improved version of the same.

Sorry I meant the 250 Savage, I got a little carried away

quote:

Originally posted by FVA:
The 25-284 will give you the most bang for buck in a short action. No fireforming required either. The brass is very strong and as "inherently accurate" as any other cartridge listed here.

And it will also burn out the barrel inside of 1000 rds. which is one of the things he specified he wanted to avoid.

25-284 /25 06 = same/same. Is a 25 06 known for burning out a barrel in under a 1000 rounds. I've fired over a 400 rounds through my 25-284 and the lands are still right there. I don't exactly baby the barrel either. Give me a stack of ammo and a 223 and I can burn that throat out in short order if I so desire.

quote:

As far as the 6.5 x 47 Lapua.... I think its velocities would be too pedestrian for the average varmint shooter....domestic brass can be made by necking up the 222 Rem Mag or the 204 Ruger...

The Lapua round is NOT based upon the .222-.222mag family of cases. Go to 6br.com for a picture, and you will see it is between the 6ppc (39mm)and the .308 (51mm)cases!

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:

quote:

As far as the 6.5 x 47 Lapua.... I think its velocities would be too pedestrian for the average varmint shooter....domestic brass can be made by necking up the 222 Rem Mag or the 204 Ruger...

The Lapua round is NOT based upon the .222-.222mag family of cases. Go to

http://www.6mmbr.com/ShotShow2006.html

for a picture and explaination of cartridge, and you will see it is between the 6ppc (39mm)and the .308 (51mm)cases!

I do however agree that it's (6.5 X 47) velocity range would be better suited for targets of paper rather than flesh.

Thanks for all the input. This was my first post on this forum and it seems there is a vast wealth of knowledge here and the response is fantastic! By the way ramrod340, a 250 Humdinger is a .308 Win blown out to minimum taper and necked down to .257 with a 45 degree shoulder angle. Quite similar to the .25 Souper, actually. Based on the information here along with a little of my own research, I think I'll be going with the .257 Roberts AI. It seems to have the requisite velocity and range plus dies and brass are readily avilable.
Again, thank you all for the input. I'll Keep you posted as this project progresses.

You won't be dissappointed! Nate

Come to think of it, a .257 Durham Jet, .257 DGR, and a .25 souper are all good choices as well. And in a short action , I'd go with either the DGR ( .260 Rem brass), or the Durham Jet. The Ruger is long enough for a Roberts I think. Nate

If building a quarterbore, Then the 25-06 has to be the king of the hill!! Unequaled supply of brass, death on varmints as well as the deer species encountered in the lower 48 and easy to load for!!!
If I was told tonite that I could only have one rifle(GOD forbid!!!!) to hunt varmints to whatever, it would be a 25-06 of some sort!!! GOD'S gift to rifledom!!! GHD....pastor at the church of GHD...25-06!!

Well, my old (early 70's vintage) Ruger 77 in .25-06 shot great when new (sub .75" groups using W-W 120 gr Positive Expanding Point ammo) and shoots even better now with handloads of 120 gr Hornady HPs.

The heavy bullets shoot so well that I've never worked up a load with 100 grain pills. However, I have a box or two of 100 gr Ballistic Tips to try.

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
If building a quarterbore, Then the 25-06 has to be the king of the hill!! Unequaled supply of brass, death on varmints as well as the deer species encountered in the lower 48 and easy to load for!!!
If I was told tonite that I could only have one rifle(GOD forbid!!!!) to hunt varmints to whatever, it would be a 25-06 of some sort!!! GOD'S gift to rifledom!!! GHD....pastor at the church of GHD...25-06!!

GHD:

I know you shoot a 260 Rem also....this is a question, not a slam....

Is there really any difference in the 260 and 25/06 with 100 grain bullets or 120 grainers for that matter?

I don't own a 25/06 as I never saw the need for one, owning a couple of 260s, and knowing that the 257 Roberts in a long action exists....

With 85 and 90 grain HPs from Sierra and Speer... in a 26 inch barrel, I have chronographed the 85 grainers at 3500 fps, and the 90 grainers at 3450 fps out of a 260 Remington VLS.....

Just highly interested in your input as I know you have experiences with both....

thanks
seafire

I've used a 260 shooting 95 gr. V max's 3200-3300 for a year as a varminter. Can't say balistically the 25/284 75 grain is so much better at 3700 fps but it is certainly more satisfying in the red mist departmernt. I've clocked 75 grain V-Max's at 3900 out of my 25-284 with no pressure signs . In spite of that I do believe they were way over pressure and wouldn't put that number out as respective of what a 25-284 should do.

Ready everyone? Turn your flames on!!

I know this is going to be anathema to the posters here, but I shy away from wildcats that I can't get properly headstamped brass for. I have over 25 centerfire rifles, and I know many of you have many more. It is real easy to take the 6.5-284 brass, neck it down to 25-284, load it up and then end up shooting it in your 6.5-284. Although this wouldn't be as bad as taking your .243 brass, necking up to 25 souper, and then shooting it in your .243. There are plenty of properly headstamped cartridges to have any level of performance you may desire. Show me appreciable differences between the .257 Roberts and the .25 Souper and I will take this back.

Fast Ed

quote:

Show me appreciable differences between the .257 Roberts and the .25 Souper and I will take this back.

Right on there.....I agree.

FWIW the old .257 Roberts is as fine a quarterbore as any I've just read in this thread.

I've owned .257s in .257 rob, .25-06 and .257 Weatherby. When it comes to shooting varmints at 300 yards there was very little difference. Wildcats truly offer little to a shooter. Custom rifles however can offer a significant edge. Get your custom in a standard cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Fast Ed:
Show me appreciable differences between the .257 Roberts and the .25 Souper and I will take this back.

Fast Ed

The Roberts and .25-06 are favorites of mine but the Roberts needs a medium action length and the '06 version a long. The action for this project is a short action IIRC so a short action cartidge is really needed if we want to reach the same level of performance. The .25-284 is a little overbore but a great option. The DGR reproduces the +p Roberts loads in a short case, as will the Souper and Durham Jet. The .250 Sav Imp would also be a great choice.

I hear ya about proper head stamped brass, won't argue the point.

If you want performance without burning up barrels quickly, the smaller cases make sense. In a short action though the wildcats would be the better choice IMO. Nate

I am gradulally leaning toward trying a .260 or an improved version. My interest, head fogger right now though is the 6.5 Grendel in an AR.

Seafire, the confusion of the '47 ctg lie in that years ago, the 6x47 (222 mag case) was done for BR guns before the 6x223 and TCU.

Later the 6BR was done overseas and a 6x47 RUAG SWISS MATCH which was a larger capacity ctg than the BR and similar diameter.

NOW Lapua has the 6.5x47 which is very close to a necked up 6x47 SWISS MATCH with should come very close to the 260 in performance.

I think the 6.5x47 or a fast twist 6x47 Swiss has much more than a 6x47 on the 222 mag case.

Crazy, we are getting inundated by new offerings that will just confuse and complicate average shooters.

Simplicity is likely why the 30-06 is so popular.

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:
I have just taken delivery of my latest project (.300 WM target/varmint) and my attention has turned to building a medium-range varminter. I've got a Ruger 77 Mk II in 7-08 that produces very ho-hum accuracy that will serve as the base for this project. I am a long-time fan of the quarter-bore and am looking for some suggestions for accurate .257 wildcats. The .250 Humdinger looks interesting, as does the .25-284. My only requirements are 1/2 m.o.a. accuracy or better and not maving to rebarrel every 1000 shots. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I also give the nod to the 250 Savage AI. Short enough to seat your bullets out of the case and should you shoot it out, the 6.5x55 would be a snap to create!

I shoot a .25wssm and I am pleased, mod 70 Coyote Lite, It is a well under MOA but not a .5 gun with pet factory, I need to reload for it. I know some folks that run a .25WSM custom rig that fits you bill. I was looking for a Bob or 25-06 when I stumbled across the .25wssm Its worked well on crows to whitetails. But I have my eyes on a mint mod 70 in .257 roberts. Wildcats can be hard to recoup $$ if you decide you do not like it so I stick with factory stuff, All were wildcats at one time.. Good luck with your 1/4 build

quote:

Originally posted by winchester poor:
I shoot a .25wssm and I am pleased, mod 70 Coyote Lite, It is a well under MOA but not a .5 gun with pet factory, I need to reload for it. I know some folks that run a .25WSM custom rig that fits you bill. I was looking for a Bob or 25-06 when I stumbled across the .25wssm Its worked well on crows to whitetails. But I have my eyes on a mint mod 70 in .257 roberts. Wildcats can be hard to recoup $$ if you decide you do not like it so I stick with factory stuff, All were wildcats at one time.. Good luck with your 1/4 build

Check the date

Perry

Medium range, short action!
My choice was 250/3000AI. It's a single shot,
Ruger #3. Excellent performance out past 300yds
with RL15 and 75gr V-Max.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

I have both the 257 Roberts and a 250 Savage AI.
Ballistics are about the same.

Some years ago, I played with the 6mm-250AI,aka 6mm International,might want to look it up. There are a lot of great 6mm/243 bullets now,V-Max,Nosler BT....
If you want to stay factory a .257 rbts is hard to beat,and make a good back-up deer rifle...

quote:

99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name.