I was perusing Midway's ammo offerings in .264 caliber (6.5mm). Currently for sale, there are (17) calibers:

6.5x52R
6.5 Grendel
6.5x50
6.5 Carcano
6.5x52 MC
6.5x54 MS
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5 PRC
260 Rem.
6.5x47
6.5x55
6.5x57R
6.5x284
6.5 Rem. Mag.
264 WM
26 Nosler
6.5-300 Weatherby

There are others of course, such as 6.5x53R, 6.5x57, 6.7 Lazzaroni Phanton, and more.

My question and amazement is, no 6.5-06!!

Is this because A-Square legitimized this cartridge? Do they have some patent on it that makes it too expensive for anyone to load this cartridge?

It seems unbelievable that with all of the above 6.5s available for sale today, that one of them is not the 6.5-06, a round based on the ubiquitous 30-06, America's darling. I could not even find this round in the latest issue of COTW (15th edition).

I have rifles in 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 338-06 and 35 Whelen, all of course based on the '06 case. All are offered with factory ammo. I guess I could have a 6.5-06 made, but I am waiting for a factory rifle and factory ammo.

Seems strange to have 20 or more cartridges in this caliber, most offerd for sale on Midway, but no 6.5-06 here in America.

What gives? A-Square?

I'd fall all over a 6.5-06.

My whitetail rifle is a .260 Rem and the 6.5-06 has an edge on that.

But then, I get to enjoy a short action and my shots on whitetail are normally around 40 to 60 yards; furthest being 120 yards.

So for me the availability of .260 brass is handy.

And in 1956 Ken Waters developed a 6.5mm based on a .243 Win necked up to 6.5mm. He called it the .263 Express. 6.5mm back then was fluttering between 0.263" and 0.264" in the US.

Missed the .260 Rem (introduced 1997) by 0.001"

Can’t answer your question, but I too wish the 6.5-06 was more popular. I have one and love it. It will push the 160gr Woodleighs with authority.

The 270 is so close, only thing missing is heavy for caliber bullets. I’ve just never been a fan of the 270, no real reason why though.

The .256 Newton predates the 6.5-06 A-Square by several decades. The problem is the Newton was ahead of it's time and the A-Square was too late to the party. On paper the 6.5-06 looks great, but in reality on game it has nothing over the .25-06 and .270. For target shooting it's on a long action, most competition shooters prefer the short action.

I'm having a 700 re-barreled to 6.5-06 AI. Should be done any time now. I'm looking forward to working with it. Now before you guys start, is it practical? NO, do I need it? NO, will it do anything my 25/06AI, 270, 280, 7 Mag won't do? NO.
Just something I want to play with. That's what most of this is all about anyway isn't it?

if they sold more 6.5X284 rifles, the 6.5-06 would probably get some factory support.

quote:

Originally posted by Nimrod308:
I'm having a 700 re-barreled to 6.5-06 AI. Should be done any time now. I'm looking forward to working with it. Now before you guys start, is it practical? NO, do I need it? NO, will it do anything my 25/06AI, 270, 280, 7 Mag won't do? NO.
Just something I want to play with. That's what most of this is all about anyway isn't it?

I agree with your philosophy Nimrod. We could all get by I suppose with just a few rifles for our sport, but what fun would that be?

My guess is because there were a whole bunch of already established 6.5's. Even the 260 was a commercial flop despite having Remington's name on it and I believe A-Square SAAMI'd the 6.5/06 around the same time.
Until the Creedmor, the 6.5's were never very popular in the U.S.

You forgot to add this one to your list.

https://www.hornady.com/ammuni...-147-gr-eld-match#!/

Great question. I'm also surprised.

Lack of sales, not worth a re-order? Maybe the 6.5 Creedmoor stole its thunder?
Certainly, many of the other 6.5 calibers are less popular than the 6.5-06. Perhaps those will be phased out when stock is depleted. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
The .256 Newton predates the 6.5-06 A-Square by several decades. The problem is the Newton was ahead of it's time and the A-Square was too late to the party. On paper the 6.5-06 looks great, but in reality on game it has nothing over the .25-06 and .270. For target shooting it's on a long action, most competition shooters prefer the short action.

What amazes me, is all of the new 6.5s on the market. If A-Square was late to the party, then how are all of these newer rounds making their debut today, like the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Grendel, 260 Rem., 26 Nosler, etc., etc. and based on cases not nearly as popular as the good old 30-06 round?

I wrote earlier on another thread that I would buy a 6.5-06 if someone made a factory rifle backed up with factory ammo, even though I could not justify it, owning a 25-06 and a 270 Win. I also stated that this was all of no concern however to rifle nuts! As someone stated after your post, 'this is all just for fun anyway isn't it?'

However, beyond just fun, perhaps the 6.5 (.264) does offer something more. I use my 25-06 every year hunting antelope and deer. Love it. I also use my 280 Rem. for the same thing.

The highest weight offered in my 25-06 is 120 gr. I use 115gr. BST. The 6.5-06 can use up to 160 gr., which is quite a jump up, for almost the same caliber (.007 difference). The BC abd SD of these bullets push the 6.5 into a higher weight class of animals.

The 270 Win. goes up to only 150 gr. for factory ammo. However, Doubletap I believe goes up to 160 gr.NP, and 180 gr. Woodies.

Boddington probably made it clear in his book Safari Rifles I & II: "... the .264 in ascending caliber progression, would be the first American cartridge I would consider as an all-around rifle for African PG, or to put it another way, the lightest rifle I would choose to handle all the non-DG species."

That eliminates the 25s. Both he and I have hunted Africa with a 25-06, but I agree with his assessment of it not being optimal for the larger PG animals. He stated that Roy Weatherby even hunted Buffalo with a 257 Weatherby, but he (Boddington) thought it a bit light for the job!

So, why not just start with the 270?

Considering the bullet weights, then why not just start with the 6.5s? The SD of a 160 gr. 6.5 bullet is .328. That's about the same SD as a 400 gr. 416 bullet. It makes the 6.5 much more versatile than the 25s.

Some will say the 270 is even better. I would say the 280 is better yet. Others will say the 30-06 is better than the 280. Still others will say the 338-06 is better!

So my point is, if we have today in factory rifles and ammo, 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 338-06 and 35 Whelen, all based on the great 30-06 round and case, why do we not have a 6.5-06? Considering all of the factory ammo and rifles out there for all the OTHER old and new 6.5s, why is the 6.5-06 left out of the lineup???

This baffles me.

Is it A-Square? Or what?

Another question.

I know that Weatherby made some 338-06 A-Square rifles and ammo.

Did they ever make any 6.5-06 A-Square rifles and ammo?

I'm not keen on Weatherby rifles as I prefer CRF, but I'd like to know if they ever marketed these.

Thanks for your replies!

Don't forget the 6.5X64 Brenneke. I just had a BRNO ZKK 600 rebarreled in that caliber and it is a real pleasure to shoot. Cases can be easily formed from .270 brass.

The original wildcat 6.5-06 is a great cartridge, but right now it won't create a great market because everybody is 6.5 Creed crazy.

The 6.5-06 A-Square is the same cartridge, but the SAAMI throat on the A-Square is so long you can't seat bullets any where near the rifling and was never accurate.

I have owned an original 256 Newton - sold it
Built a 6.5-06 wildcat and shot that barrel out
Had it rebarreled and the smith put an A-square throat on it and screwed up the chamber.
Had that barrel shortened to adjust the throat and rechambered to 6.5-06 Ackley to clean up the chamber. It's now on it's second 6.5-06 Ackley barrel as a hunting rifle.
Just had a 6.5-06 Ackley "target" rifle built that I am going into load development on.

The 6.5's are some of my favorite rifles, but I don't ever expect to see a factory 6.5-06 in my lifetime

Barstooler

I ask this every time I see a thread on the 6.5-06 .......has anyone got a good load for 160 grainers in a 6.5-06 Imp.

Mines an RCBS, but I don't think it really matters

I love the thing and I've now got some Woodleigh 160gr PP's, so I'm looking for a test load.....

Roger

Nobody mentioned the 6.5x68???

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
The .256 Newton predates the 6.5-06 A-Square by several decades. The problem is the Newton was ahead of it's time and the A-Square was too late to the party. On paper the 6.5-06 looks great, but in reality on game it has nothing over the .25-06 and .270. For target shooting it's on a long action, most competition shooters prefer the short action.

What amazes me, is all of the new 6.5s on the market. If A-Square was late to the party, then how are all of these newer rounds making their debut today, like the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 Grendel, 260 Rem., 26 Nosler, etc., etc. and based on cases not nearly as popular as the good old 30-06 round?

What I meant by late to the party, was the .270 and .25-06 were standard decades before the 6.5-06 A-Square was standardized. With the 6.5-06 squarely in the middle of those two, it really doubt it would have made a splash . A-Square like mentioned standardized the .338-06, but how long did Weatherby manufacture rifles in that cartridge? The .338 Federal has had a better run, but it has been chambered in more affordable rifles and cheaper ammunition.

The main reason the Creedmoor and Grendel have taken off is they fit in AR10/15 magazines. The .260 is pretty much a dead with rifle manufactures moving to the more popular Creedmoor, but because it's based off the .308 it'll be around for some time to come. Only time will tell if the 6.5 PRC makes it, the PRS shooters it is being marketed to have pretty much moved on to 6mm cartridges.

Thanks everybody. Some good replies and good information.

Question: Do you think the 6.5-06 should become a factory round?

I have several 6.5 rifles in various flavors, including a 6.5-06AI. To answer your last question, I think it should become a factory round, but not on the A-Square model. As some said, the throat is way out there. I had mine custom throated for the 120 Ballistic Tip to just touch the rifling when seated to the base of the neck. Since that is the bullet I use in it for whitetail hunting, it works. incidentally, that is almost the same when seating the Sierra 120 Prohunter.

I will say though that when I shoot this barrel out, I will go to a plain 6.5-06 without the 40* shoulder. It is just not that much improvement.

quote:

Another question.

I know that Weatherby made some 338-06 A-Square rifles and ammo.

Did they ever make any 6.5-06 A-Square rifles and ammo?

I owned an A-Square rifle in 6.5-06. It was quite accurate...took several Coyotes with it at range.

The 270 at one time had a 170 gr. Speer RN and it penetrated great..I shot a few deer with that load and a Zebra, Hartebeest..It worked fine but no better than the 150 or 160 gr..

Any of the 06 based caliber work well enough, I just have never been impressed greatly with any of them because Im so fond of the 30-06 that to better it one has to go to a 338 Win in my opinion..Most would go for a 300 Win Mag, and that's not a bad choice at all..

"Question: Do you think the 6.5-06 should become a factory round?"

Yes
But i can`t see the company introducing it making so much money as you can use 3006 or 2506 brass.
6,5-06 are the most popular wildcat in Sweden but now you have many factory choices with 6.5*284n,260r and 6,5 creedmore.
For Sweden 6,5*55 are the most popular allround caliber(together with 3006 and 308w) for bigger cal. many choose 9,3*62 or 3006 for smallgame up to roedeer its 222r/223r. 22hornet and Khornet for birds. Some hunters use a dedicated rifle i 6mmXC,260r ,243win for roedeer or capercaillie.

quote:

Nobody mentioned the 6.5x68???

It doesn't give much over the 6.5 x 65 RWS. It burns a lot of powder - definitely overbore. It needs an American barrel in 1:8 inch twist, plus a throating job so it can shoot the 140-143-grain bullets. It could also shoot 160-grain bullets. Just don't get a European rifle (slow twist, short throat).

I don't think you'd gain much with a 6.5X06 versus the readily available 6.5X284

quote:

Originally posted by Nimrod308:
I'm having a 700 re-barreled to 6.5-06 AI. Should be done any time now. I'm looking forward to working with it. Now before you guys start, is it practical? NO, do I need it? NO, will it do anything my 25/06AI, 270, 280, 7 Mag won't do? NO.
Just something I want to play with. That's what most of this is all about anyway isn't it?

I am currently building one on a Charles Daly Mauser action. Waiting for the barrel to arrive. I agree with you totally. I already have a 270 WSM, 6.5x55, and 7x57. I have always wanted a wildcat rifle and after researching a bunch I chose the 6.5-06. Why? Its different and none of my friends have one.

quote:

Question: Do you think the 6.5-06 should become a factory round?

I am indifferent. Would be nice to have brass available at a reasonable price. I reload everything so it does not matter to me. If it was factory loaded, I bet its expensive.

6.5/06 and 338/06 Good combination. I use 25/06 brass for the 6.5/06 cause I don"t have a 25/06 so should never get calibers mixed up. I BOUGHT 338/06 FACTORY BRASS WHENEVER I could find it. Sure it was pricy but not that bad.
When I made the 6.5/06 (Douglas bbl., Husqvqrnq action, MPI stock, Timney) the first 3 shots (Nosler 2 die. 140 gr. partition) went into .285, later tried Nosler 130 gr. accubonds, 3 shots .126. Can't do That with my bench rifles!

Can't find the 6.5-06 in Africa, can you?

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Can't find the 6.5-06 in Africa, can you?

Nor the 25-06 or 35 Whelen, but I've taken both to Africa!

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Can't find the 6.5-06 in Africa, can you?

Nor the 25-06 or 35 Whelen, but I've taken both to Africa!

Okay, fair point.

But what if the airline loses your ammo, even if they don't lose the rifle?

You gonna find boxes of those odd-ball cartridges for sale in Namibia, Tanzania, or even West So. Africa?

Don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:

quote:

Nobody mentioned the 6.5x68???

It doesn't give much over the 6.5 x 65 RWS. It burns a lot of powder - definitely overbore. It needs an American barrel in 1:8 inch twist, plus a throating job so it can shoot the 140-143-grain bullets. It could also shoot 160-grain bullets. Just don't get a European rifle (slow twist, short throat).

The 6,5x68 is a chamois and roe specialist with the twist rate designed for up to 127g bullets.
The more recently developed 6,5x65 RWS was designed to surpass the 6,5x57 with the same fast twist rate for heavier bullets. Factory rifles and RWS ammo are available if you’re happy to import them.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Can't find the 6.5-06 in Africa, can you?

Nor the 25-06 or 35 Whelen, but I've taken both to Africa!

Okay, fair point.

But what if the airline loses your ammo, even if they don't lose the rifle?

You gonna find boxes of those odd-ball cartridges for sale in Namibia, Tanzania, or even West So. Africa?

Don't think so.

You are correct. One won't find any of the above three calibers in Africa. But I took the 25 & 35 and had a ball! The chances of one's ammo not showing up is pretty low, but it could happen. I felt it was worth the risk for the enjoyment returned. But I plan for such contingencies by taking a three rifle battery most of the time: small, medium and large bore. If any one of the three goes down, another rifle can step in to take its place. Most PHs usually have a suitable rifle in camp if everything goes south.

And this thread does not suggest the 6.5-06 for African use, but I would probably take one if I wanted to, with the above mentioned caveats. No harm, and not that big of a risk. Unless it's your 1-rifle battery...

Do what you like, like what you do!

What is the real world difference between a 25 06 and a 6.5 06

quote:

Originally posted by Joe-S:
What is the real world difference between a 25 06 and a 6.5 06

Ballistically speaking, not much!

However, my attraction to the 6.5-06 is the bullet weights available. The 25-06 goes up to 120 gr. The 6.5s go up to 160. The two maximum sectional densities are .260 & .328 respectively.

The biggest commercial ammo that I am aware of for my 270 Win. is Double Tap 160 gr. NP, SD of .299.

I can get 175gr. ammo for my 280Rem. & 7mmRM, SD of .310.

So, the 6.5s are attractive to me. The 6.5-06 in particular. That's just me though.

For now, I satisfy myself with Norma Oryx 156 gr. in my 6.5x55 Swede.

As I stated in my previous post, sometimes a small bore needs to step up and replace a medium bore that has bit the dust in Africa. It's nice to have a small bore that has adequate SD bullets to take the place of the lost medium bore. The 6.5s can do that with heavy bullets. Something the 25-06 is lacking. It's also far enough down the caliber scale, that it gives adequate separation from the medium bore to be genuinely different on the small stuff, to justify its place in the (3)-rifle battery.

Just my thoughts on the subject. YMMV

Ive got plenty of med. bore rifles, so Id go with the Creedmore, it has to be a good deer rifle, but then I have a 250-3000..Not much help.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
if they sold more 6.5X284 rifles, the 6.5-06 would probably get some factory support.

Maybe. I have both, the 6.5-06 in Win 70 for plains game and similar, and the 6.5-284 for target shooting. They are pretty much ballistic twins, so what one does the other will in that regard. Both good cartridges. - dan

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by Joe-S:
What is the real world difference between a 25 06 and a 6.5 06

Ballistically speaking, not much!

However, my attraction to the 6.5-06 is the bullet weights available. The 25-06 goes up to 120 gr. The 6.5s go up to 160. The two maximum sectional densities are .260 & .328 respectively.

The biggest commercial ammo that I am aware of for my 270 Win. is Double Tap 160 gr. NP, SD of .299.

I can get 175gr. ammo for my 280Rem. & 7mmRM, SD of .310.

So, the 6.5s are attractive to me. The 6.5-06 in particular. That's just me though.

For now, I satisfy myself with Norma Oryx 156 gr. in my 6.5x55 Swede.

As I stated in my previous post, sometimes a small bore needs to step up and replace a medium bore that has bit the dust in Africa. It's nice to have a small bore that has adequate SD bullets to take the place of the lost medium bore. The 6.5s can do that with heavy bullets. Something the 25-06 is lacking. It's also far enough down the caliber scale, that it gives adequate separation from the medium bore to be genuinely different on the small stuff, to justify its place in the (3)-rifle battery.

Just my thoughts on the subject. YMMV

Agree
Also had Newton Rifle Co not been so badly damaged by WWI
(essentially stopping all production)
The 256 Newton would likely have obviated the 270 and the 25-06.

Yes, I think the choice of bullets is the deciding factor.

6.5 brenneke 6.4x64 .. its awesome .. zero difference than a fast twist 270 with 150s

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The 270 at one time had a 170 gr. Speer RN and it penetrated great..I shot a few deer with that load and a Zebra, Hartebeest..It worked fine but no better than the 150 or 160 gr..

Any of the 06 based caliber work well enough, I just have never been impressed greatly with any of them because Im so fond of the 30-06 that to better it one has to go to a 338 Win in my opinion..Most would go for a 300 Win Mag, and that's not a bad choice at all..

I have shot hundreds of African plains game with a 270 Ackley, using both the Barnes 130 grain X bullet, 140 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws And Jensen solid shank 150 grains.

There was absolutely no difference in the performance of these three bullets on animals.