Is there a difference between a head shot on Bambi and one on Thumper, and why or why not? No stripes roger

Myself, I have only head shot one deer. A finishing shot on a smallish whitetail buck at approx. 70 yards. I can't see where there would be any difference, both would die before quick to a well placed head shot.

Wel Roge...

A head shot on a deer works quite well if you are shooting one with a 22 Mag...

which I did several times at my old house here in Oregon... they were shot in the yard, and I was surrounded by anti hunting California Retiree Transplants...

I've also dispatched several that had been hit by cars that way...

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is there a difference between a head shot on Bambi and one on Thumper, and why or why not? No stripes roger

Now that there's funny, I don't care who ya are that there's funny "No stripes" bartsche, you crack me up.

Seafires post made me think of two more deer that I have headshot. Both were does and put out of there misery with a single shot to the head with a 44mag. after being hit by a vehicle. I guess I just had hunting situations on my mind when I posted still, the results were the same.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is there a difference between a head shot on Bambi and one on Thumper, and why or why not? No stripes roger

Roger,
If you can regularly make head shots on squirrels then I guess I have no problem with you doing head shots on deer.

I bet you can't get 9 pages!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I bet you can't get 9 pages!

I bet I don't want to! I'd run out of wind!

John! Are you intentionally avoiding the Thumper part.

I like that squirrel head shot anlaogy. In fact I thought about throwing that in instead of Thumper, but Thumper seemed to go so well with Bambi and other kidee creatures.

9 pages really? Reminds me of something an old girl friend once said to me. "--If you can't do me any good before that don't bother." Kinda puzzled me when she said it. roger

Head shots are the only way to go on zombies.

quote:

John! Are you intentionally avoiding the Thumper part.

Well Roger,

the last couple of rabbits I shot with a 223, one was a graze on a jackrabbit, so it didn't do anything to it except, bang/flop...

the jacks I hit with the 223, just sort of came apart like shooting a balloon... so a head shot wouldn't have changed much....

and yeah, out shooting sage rats... I can decapitate them with head shots.. I do that sometimes.. depending on their position at the time... my problem is see how much I can either blow them to kingdom come.. or how far I can bounce the carcass in the air... or split them in half sending one half 30 yrds to the left and the other half 30 yds to the right...

Within a hundred to 150 yds, it is pretty easy to place your shots that accurately after you have been out there shooting them for a while...

at times you wait for them to be in the exact right position to maximize the effect of hitting them...

Red mist is pretty darn addicting shooting cannibal rats....

I think of them as Democrat politicians when I really want to have some fun.....

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:

quote:

John! Are you intentionally avoiding the Thumper part.

and yeah, out shooting sage rats... I can decapitate them with head shots.. I do that sometimes.. depending on their position at the time... my problem is see how much I can either blow them to kingdom come.. or how far I can bounce the carcass in the air... or split them in half sending one half 30 yrds to the left and the other half 30 yds to the right...

Chipmunks can be fun with a 22 rifle or pistol. Just wait on them to jump up on a rock and shoot the rock just about an inch beneath them. The damage is unreal from a Misswith a little 22.

Head shoot an animal? Me? Of course!
Big or little.

405 grain flat nose. About 25 yards.
But then I am unethical....I'll go cry some more.

If you're shooting a meat squirrel with a .45-70, because that's what was handy, it doesn't make much sense to take anything but a head shot.

The three Musketrolls have already damned me to hell though for my head shooting ways, so I guess I'm stuck with my sins. Was entertaining at my end to laugh at them and I'm sure I'll laugh at any of their responses to this..

I don't have the energy to bother with them for another nine pages but it was fun.

Tomorrow morning, me and my buddy from Naples are gonna set up some bench rests out by the stock tank and head shoot turtles with powerful air rifles just because we can. Head shot is pretty much the best shot you can take on turtles. I'm sure somebody will explain to me how that also is unethical but they are probably the folks I ignore so it'll all be cheery.

quote:

Originally posted by Mort Canard:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is there a difference between a head shot on Bambi and one on Thumper, and why or why not? No stripes roger

Roger,
If you can regularly make head shots on squirrels then I guess I have no problem with you doing head shots on deer.

thumper is a rabbit....

Tom, if that squirrel was taken with a 405 grain flat nose from a 45-70 it goes against everything I've ever seen!

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
Tom, if that squirrel was taken with a 405 grain flat nose from a 45-70 it goes against everything I've ever seen!

Remington Green Box plinking ammo
My 14.5" barrel .45-70/.450 Morlines BFR
Sand River
March, 2007

Green box bullets don't expand much when they hit a squirrel head out of a BFR. I was surprised too. Low velocity compared to coming from a rifle, minimal resistance on impact. Punched a neat hole through the head. Was maybe an inch and a half hole on the exit side.

Not saying it's not possible but I've shot varmints with everything from a full house load down to just enough Unique to reach out to 50 yards with the 45-70 and never seen a clean punch through like that on a head shot small animal. From the photo, it looks like the exit wound shown?

quote:

Originally posted by SteveM70:
Not saying it's not possible but I've shot varmints with everything from a full house load down to just enough Unique to reach out to 50 yards with the 45-70 and never seen a clean punch through like that on a head shot small animal. From the photo, it looks like the exit wound shown?

Yup. Was a big squirrel.

.45 hole on one side and a bit under 1.5" on the exit.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mort Canard:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:

thumper is a rabbit....

You're right , But if you saw the movie you must addmitt he was just a little squirrelee. Poetic liscience you know. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mort Canard:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:

thumper is a rabbit....

You're right , But if you saw the movie you must addmitt he was just a little squirrelee. Poetic liscience you know. roger

I re-read all posts. Seems like only men from the left coast know about thumper

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Mort Canard:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is there a difference between a head shot on Bambi and one on Thumper, and why or why not? No stripes roger

Roger,
If you can regularly make head shots on squirrels then I guess I have no problem with you doing head shots on deer.

thumper is a rabbit....

I am aware of that fact and was when I posted that. A rabbit head is much bigger than a squirrel head and a much easier target. I you are wanting my approval to take head shot's on deer you better be able to hit a squirrel head sized target at a decent distance.

BTW; Thumper was also a lovely bikini clad character in Diamonds are Forever who wanted to rearrange Sean Connery's family jewels. Personally I don't think a rifle is the best thing to use on Thumper. A large bore trouser cannon at point blank range would be more appropriate. Come to think of it, Bambi would also be a candidate for a shot of trouser cannon!

quote:

Was entertaining at my end to laugh at them and I'm sure I'll laugh at any of their responses to this..

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/groupee_common/platform_images/blank.gif
Display Image - UBBCodeâ„¢

fficial%26sa%3DN" TARGET=_blank>Head shot album just for the Stunted Man

quote:

I re-read all posts. Seems like only men from the left coast know about thumper

It's not a location deal, it's an age deal.
Those of us that read the book and watched the movie know Thumper, the "real" Thumper. The Thumper of legend.
The rest sad to say are culturally deprived. I feel their pain.
Probably don't know Ole Yeller either . I wonder if Travis shot him in the head? Alas, like Kennedy I sense a conspiracy afoot.
Will it never end?

quote:

Originally posted by Mort Canard:
A large bore trouser cannon at point blank range would be more appropriate.

Mort, you're in a different league than I. Congradulations. roger

Last word on how much I suck and how horrible head shots are is in transit between Cape Town and DFW as we speak in rug (including head) format.

Cheers to the three musketrolls with the narrow minds. May some day they be able to afford to hunt for themselves instead of second guess others.

Tom...
Perhaps...(and I only say perhaps...)
You've found the one animal which we can all agree can be stopped reliably by the 45/70.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Edwards:
Tom...
Perhaps...(and I only say perhaps...)
You've found the one animal which we can all agree can be stopped reliably by the 45/70.

Heehee



I was afraid for a minute I was going to need the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch but the .45/70 sufficed.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Mort Canard:
A large bore trouser cannon at point blank range would be more appropriate.

Mort, you're in a different league than I. Congradulations. roger

Close quarter hunting is entirely appropriate when persuing Bambi and Thumper While head shots are possible, they are usually at the discretion of the quarry!

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:
Last word on how much I suck and how horrible head shots are is in transit between Cape Town and DFW as we speak in rug (including head) format.

Cheers to the three musketrolls with the narrow minds. May some day they be able to afford to hunt for themselves instead of second guess others.

Cheers back to the RICH stunt man....
So why couldn't you afford to take another more appropriate rifle to Africa?
The big bore had no scope. Could you not afford a scope for it? The only other rifle available with a scope was a .223. Did you have to borrow the .223? Did you have to borrow the big bore rifle too? Do you even own a rifle? You sure don't sound like big money to me.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:
Last word on how much I suck and how horrible head shots are is in transit between Cape Town and DFW as we speak in rug (including head) format.

Cheers to the three musketrolls with the narrow minds. May some day they be able to afford to hunt for themselves instead of second guess others.

Cheers back to the RICH stunt man....
So why couldn't you afford to take another more appropriate rifle to Africa?
The big bore had no scope. Could you not afford a scope for it? The only other rifle available with a scope was a .223. Did you have to borrow the .223? Did you have to borrow the big bore rifle too? Do you even own a rifle? You sure don't sound like big money to me.

I own enough rifles to need more than one gun safe. I'd have to look at my insurance records or go do a head count to tell you exactly how many but it's about 50 rifles.

I was intending on being in thick brush where I don't like scopes that day so I was going with the express sights so as to not snag so much on things. My mate from college decided to bring the scoped .223 along with which he took this Impala that morning. Suppose that was "un-ethical" too. He only lives in Africa and works as a PH when he's not gunsmithing so what the f*ck does he know?



Just scanning some pictures the other day and came across these. These are for you and Hot Core et al:

Happy almost anniversary... Nice neat .223 hole, innit?



Shot was made from here.

And I bet you'd thought I'd forgotten...I don't ever forget.

I don't have big money, I have ENOUGH money.

Those who can have done, those who can't seem to second guess people on internet forums...No shot is 100% guaranteed, some are lower percentage. I've not lost an animal yet. Make of that what you will and hunt how you see fit. If you want to preach at people I advise you to get a church instead of a keyboard.

Cheers,
tom

What would anyone reading this think about a Professional Outfitter who tells a person it is OK for them to take a shot at an animal, with the intended target area the size of the end of a "moving" 2"x4" stud, at 300yds, with normal daytime wind movements, using an 8x scope?

Likewise, how big of a fool would it take to claim they attempted that shot with those circumstances and made a dead-center brain shot on a Zebra?

Or is it more likely the person claiming such a totally stupid, unethical event be attempting to pull a clinton on everyone?

Anyone who has actually taken 300yd shots in the daytime knows the answer without having to argue at all.

Is this a 9 month resurrection or erection ? roger

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
What would anyone reading this think about a Professional Outfitter who tells a person it is OK for them to take a shot at an animal, with the intended target area the size of the end of a "moving" 2"x4" stud, at 300yds, with normal daytime wind movements, using an 8x scope?

Likewise, how big of a fool would it take to claim they attempted that shot with those circumstances and made a dead-center brain shot on a Zebra?

Or is it more likely the person claiming such a totally stupid, unethical event be attempting to pull a clinton on everyone?

Anyone who has actually taken 300yd shots in the daytime knows the answer without having to argue at all.

I've got witnesses. Call me "stunt man" all ya want. I made the shot and that's all that matters.

For the record, the PH friends are on the record as saying they wouldn't have taken the shot because they live there and have plenty of chances. I don't and don't. They understood this and allowed me the chance as it WAS ON MY DIME with MULTIPLE ZEROES after the "dime" part as far as money.

I was paying the trophy fee if I wounded it or made the shot. It was my call. I was neither encouraged or discouraged. I had a combination of skill and luck and pulled it off. 5.5 weeks into hunting THAT particular zebra, this was probably my last chance on that trip as I was going home in 4 days and she was quite elusive. If I'd wounded her I would have expended great energy in finding it and finishing it off and would have been out a thousand bucks + for it lost or found. I'd already expended about 15,000US chasing her around. I thought for about an hour as I watched her graze before I decided to chance it. Sometimes you win sometimes you don't. Was my hunt, was my money, if you don't want to take such chances, don't. Wasn't a windy day, dead calm would be closer to accurate, she wasn't moving around much mostly munching grass under cover of trees, and the rifle was zeroed for monkey shooting at ~250, being as it was steeply downhill, I didn't hold over, rather I held under a tad and I brained her. If you were a civil person I'd give you the phone numbers and addresses of the parties involved and you could query them but you aren't and I won't.

Three-seven-five H and H with large front bead and zeroed for ~200 would have been a lower probability shot even aiming for the boiler room and one I deemed unethical.

Many game officers have been known to take ELES with head shots with .303, albeit at close range, though I'd go with my .458 Lott, myself.

End Of File. Skill, thought, good equipment, plenty of time to set up the shot, and a bit of luck...No need for more discourse on this. It's a recorded fact that I killed a zebra in such fashion in Limpopo within spitting distance of the Limpopo river. I'm known as "The Crazy Texan" for it, but I pulled it off. I'd like to see YOU try to get inside of 250 on zebra in that part of Africa, especially when they are herding with giraffe most of the time. I got within 75 multiple times and they'd always thundered off 2-3 klicks before stopping the moment they got a whiff of me and before I had any chance of lining up a shot. I sure as hell wasn't gonna take a shot on a running mare at 150+. This shot I had eons to line up, albeit with an underpowered round. Unfortunately this was a day I didn't have the scoped .300H&H along for the day. She went off to different terrain than I had planned for. Make do with what you have. Same reason I've taken the little five with .375 H&H. Was available in my hands and would do the job though it costs a bit for repairs at the taxidermist end of the bill for the hunt.

Situational Morality. Maybe it was a "Hail Mary" pass, but it DID work. I'd say the odds of me being able to pull it off again with a perfect brain hit are worse than 20:1 because I'm a realist. But, given the exact same circumstances, I might try it again. Most likely, I'll just make sure from now on to have the scoped .300 along every time. But that wasn't how it worked out. Pastor at First Baptist said "nice shot, nice zebra" not "you're gonna go to hell for that." I got a "hole in one" playing golf once too, and I didn't write it down as a two or three. It was a one.

I was not going to get in on this but have changed my mind.

I am sick and tired of hearing someone saying he risked such and such a shot because he was paying money for it. Tough titties!! One pays for the right to hunt, not a right to kill or wound regardless of how. If one doesn't understand and appreciate the difference, then I believe they are missing the fun of the basic point of sport hunting.

Hell, if all one wants is to kill, he could buy a laser target designator and rent a stand-by pilot with an F-15 and some surplus Russian "smart" explosive hardware.


The head of any animal except a human criminal or or an already injured aniamal is, in my opion, an unsporting target. That is especially so with an animal which is an herbivore rather than a carnivore.

Why? Hervbivores are prey. They are constantly, unexpectedly, moving their heads to search for danger both visually and to test the wind. They also move them to eat, which they do almost constantly except when asleep, and they move them to scratch otherwise unreachable parts of their own bodies.

Most herbivores' heads contain much space which is not immediately fatal if struck by a bullet intended for the brain or spine. That does not mean it will not eventually cause the animal to die if struck there by a bullet. Just that it may take a long time, such as by causing starvation, and that that long time may be excruciatingly painful depending on exactly what was struck.

A long period of excruciating pain is not what I seek for any animal I am hunting. So I don't believe in head shots.

If you think differently, that is your business, not mine. I will not seek to stop you from doing it either. But don't expect me to respect it or the thinking behind it.

(Nothing I've said here apples to non-sporting killing of animals. Other killings may require other means, and other degrees of risk of inflicting short or long-term pain. )

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I was not going to get in on this but have changed my mind.

I am sick and tired of hearing someone saying he risked such and such a shot because he was paying money for it. Tough titties!! One pays for the right to hunt, not a right to kill or wound regardless of how.

Actually, IN AFRICA THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR. "Tough titties", as you said above.

If you don't like it, don't go hunt with me. Would it have been preferable to attempt a heart lung shot with the .223? Given the odds, I had a fair chance of missing the head entirely. I would have had a HIGH probability of hitting the torso someplace if I aimed for the boiler room. Wounding painful shot. Head shot was most likely going to be hit or clean miss. Torso shot would have been a hit for sure and likely a non-fatal one that would have led to endless tracking or I could have gone home empty-handed, which I didn't.

I pays MY MONEY and I takes MY CHANCES.

When YOU invite me on a hunt YOU pay for, I'll follow YOUR druthers as opposed to MINE out of respect for your views.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I was not going to get in on this but have changed my mind.

I am sick and tired of hearing someone saying he risked such and such a shot because he was paying money for it. Tough titties!! One pays for the right to hunt, not a right to kill or wound regardless of how.

Actually, IN AFRICA THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR. "Tough titties", as you said above.

If you don't like it, don't go hunt with me. Would it have been preferable to attempt a heart lung shot with the .223? Given the odds, I had a fair chance of missing the head entirely. I would have had a HIGH probability of hitting the torso someplace if I aimed for the boiler room. Wounding painful shot. Head shot was most likely going to be hit or clean miss. Torso shot would have been a hit for sure and likely a non-fatal one that would have led to endless tracking or I could have gone home empty-handed, which I didn't.

I pays MY MONEY and I takes MY CHANCES.

You don't need to tell me what you are. I can judge that for myself. As to my hunting with you, you should live so long.

What I would deem as having been preferable would be that you have not fired at all, given your choice of target.

But then, as you said, that's you.

I'll leave you and this particular thread with that. Enjoy your life.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I'll leave you and this particular thread with that. Enjoy your life.

Only smart thing you ever said. I'll give you that. Regards, and may you hunt how you wish not how you are TOLD by others. In an actual survival situation, I'd rather be with me than your lot. You'd likely die of starvation worrying about ethics of head shots, snares, and trot lines.

I grew up with iron sights, Kentucky windage, and make each shot count. You can pick and choose however you want and I'll do the same. In this case I had a well tuned rifle, no wind, and a proper telescope.

Must be nice to be able to afford to be a prima donna. I s'pose you're the life of the party.
Spending 20K and a month and a half of my life and 60 hours on aircraft to go home empty-handed ain't my style. And I wasn't blind or bait hunting either. Hunting over bait like Texas deer and pig hunters and African lion/leopard/warthog hunters is much less ethical than my Zebra hunt. I coulda gone to one of our Texas "exotic ranches", spent less money, and been driven up to 50 feet of a tame animal to shoot it. That isn't my style. I hiked many a klick every day humping my own gear. You must be a trust fund baby or something. I had a zebra dream I made come true, a wonderful month and a half walking and fishing the bush of the Transvaal that was three years in the planning, and one phenomenal shot I may never repeat with the bonus of being amongst PH friends I'd known 15+ years. You have a weird bitterness to others who don't agree with your style of hunting. Who's the loser?

One Texan whilst I was over there hired a helicopter for three days to get his sable because he didn't have one on the wall yet and wasn't having any success hunting in a conventional fashion. I pounded feet for weeks. If you put me in the same category as him you're a moron and not worth speaking with anyway. I refused to shake his hand when introduced. I felt of him as you seem to feel about me.

End Of File.

I see the "stunt boy" is still trying to rationalize his silly actions....

This could be an immortal thread....

HA, remember when you verbally raped me over how much case capacity 6mm Remington gains when Ackley-ized? And called me a liar after I posted results? I do...

Alberta Canuck wrote: "One pays for the right to hunt, not a right to kill or wound regardless of how. If one doesn't understand and appreciate the difference, then I believe they are missing the fun of the basic point of sport hunting."

I couldn't agree more.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
I see the "stunt boy" is still trying to rationalize his silly actions....

This could be an immortal thread....

It was ONE action and it worked and I got a center brain hit. No need to rationalize.

Thread came up at the gun shop/range of which I'm a member and the general consensus of the staff and ownership there was. "You got your animal, nobody was harmed in the process, and arguing with judgmental people on the internet is a waste of time. It's like wrestling with a pig, you both get dirty but the pig likes it."

I just posted again so I could show you what a spiffy shot it was in photographic fashion and gloat, not because I figured I'd change any of your (collective) closed mindedness.


As to paying for things: I have an analogy, when I raced cars as a hobby I paid for both the right to win, if I managed, and the right to crash or blow up my car. In this hunt I WON.
End of Story, End of File. Do not pass go or collect 200 dollars. Insult me all you want and you aren't proving a thing except negative things about yourselves because I couldn't care less what random people on the internet think compared to people that are actual friends and acquaintances in the hunting and shooting community.

As for AR: I've gotten a number of private messages from members of this forum since this started last year along the lines of "Keep givin' 'em hell. It's funny and those hard heads deserve it" and variations of such as far as how I'm thought of on the AR forums. half dozen AR posters don't like me. I'm gonna go cry now and eat worms...oh, sorry, I don't have time for that because I'm off to the range to practice this morning...maybe I'll cry and eat worms tomorrow? I reckon I'll be busy then too.