quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
HA, remember when you verbally raped me over how much case capacity 6mm Remington gains when Ackley-ized? And called me a liar after I posted results? I do...

If you're referring to me Tyler, I recall verbally disagreeing with you over .45-70 real world hunting results, not AckImp cartridge results. I own three firearms in Ackley Improved chamberings and 2 .45/70s...so it'd be highly unlikely I'd have done so.

For what it's worth, my views on real world .45-70 usage in hunting after that series of posts fall somewhere in between how I used to feel about them as being paper punching/squirrel-deer sized animal guns and your feelings about them. I'd rather take my .458 Lott if I was shooting at something big, but people can get very good performance out of the .45/70 if they work at it and have done so in the real world. A Ruger No. 1 .45-70 to go alongside my one in .458 Lott is on my list of planned future acquisitions to play with that idea further on a personal level and see how far things can be pushed. Current .45/70s I own I wouldn't risk upping the chamber pressures much.

Good shot Tom. The hit was made and the proof is in the pudding.

I made a head shot on a moose this year with my 500 S&W Handi-Rifle. It did kill the moose but not how I though it would. The moose went right down but 10 seconds later it came right back up and ran off. It ran out of blood about 75 yards out. I shot under the brain by only an inch and missed the spine by a hair.

Makes me think twice about head shots for me anyways.



Being a low chance hit is not a constant for everyone. I know guys that trying to hit the broadside of a moose at 50 yards is a low chance hit but they are still out there hunting and noone is giving them crap.

I tried to hasten a dying red deer with a close up brain shot and missed. I just don't know where the brain is! (It's somewhere in that big head). It wouldn't have mattered with a bigger caliber that shattered the whole skull. But it reminded me why I don't do head shots. I also shoot in usually windy conditions, which is, I suppose, another good reason not to risk it. But I gave up the habit a long time ago after jaw shooting a hare. The thought of a head shot just does not cross my mind. If I cannot get a clear chest/shoulder shot I'll pass. That's just my choice!

I see a few folks rutinely taking head shots with rifles that are not properly sighted in. (In those same windy conditions). I do give them crap but it doesn't seem to sink in. It troubles me when on paper targets the shooter cannot group his rifle into a brain sized target!

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
I tried to hasten a dying red deer with a close up brain shot and missed. I just don't know where the brain is! (It's somewhere in that big head). It wouldn't have mattered with a bigger caliber that shattered the whole skull. But it reminded me why I don't do head shots. I also shoot in usually windy conditions, which is, I suppose, another good reason not to risk it. But I gave up the habit a long time ago after jaw shooting a hare. The thought of a head shot just does not cross my mind. If I cannot get a clear chest/shoulder shot I'll pass. That's just my choice!

I see a few folks rutinely taking head shots with rifles that are not properly sighted in. (In those same windy conditions). I do give them crap but it doesn't seem to sink in. It troubles me when on paper targets the shooter cannot group his rifle into a brain sized target!

My dad's a pathologist and one of my best friends is a vet. I routinely shoot over 1000 rounds a week. I had a damn good idea of what I was aimed at and it was more like a 6x6 than a 2x4 as some twat said earlier with no wind.

To prove a point on a Modelo can just now, before the light fades here in Texas...



7.66 grains at about 800fps at the muzzle. 20 Meters. Two shots. IRON SIGHTS. OFF HAND. NO SLING. Moderate wind 5-8 with perhaps 12 knot gusts. Beeman R10. 2 shot group of about 1/4 inch with wind and light pellet.

I wasn't worried about missing. If you are, as you said, don't take the shot.

Regards and may all your hunts be happy and may you hunt as you see fit and not have lame-faggots who can't shoot straight piss in your face on the internet...


Tom, the Supposed "Stunt Man"

If any Texans or visitors wish to disbelieve me and continue to be pricks about this, they are welcome to meet me at either Red's or the Austin Rifle Club or Cedar Ridge range and I'll handicap myself by shooting non-dominant eye left handed with right handed firearms. I'll buy the ammo they dig their internet grave with because I'm a nice guy rather than a faggish keyboard commandawg. I'll bring my videographer friend along too.

If that doesn't settle it for once and for all, I've got two sets of boxing gloves and they are welcome to attempt to "show me up" or whatever the fuck they think they are doing at that too. Unless they have little girl hands, and then they better bring their own gloves to the ring.

One of the Truths a person can take to the Bank is, "The more a Fool talks, the more you realize how Moronic he is!" Here we have a Classic Example brought to you by the Moron of the thread - tom'''.

quote:

By tom''':
... it was more like a 6x6 than a 2x4 ....

Anyone care to comment on the size of a Horse Brain(from the ear side) that has actually seen one?
-----

Hey RMiller, I feel sure you realize a Moose is larger than a Horse. And a Zebra is about the size of a nice Horse.

Is the Moose "Brain" as large as the end of a 6"x6" board? I've never had the opportunity to look inside a Moose skull, so I don't have any idea about how large it is. How big is the Moose Brain from the ear side?
-----

Anyone care to speculate on the Retained Energy of a 223Rem at 300yds? Don't remember any takers the first time around, but that could be wrong.

Anyone besides tom''' feel that taking a 300yd Brain Shot on a Horse size animal(basically a 2"x4" Brain) with an 8x scope, using a 223Rem, during the normal shifting wind of a day, is an ethical, makeable, and grand idea? (Basically, how many Morons believe tom'''?)
-----

Just noticed he has gone to Vulgarity and ready to Fight. I may not be able to sleep well tonight.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

Just noticed he is ready to Fight. I may not be able to sleep well tonight.

On 2X4 vs 6x6 you might want to figure in angle of entry as it's every bit as important, but you know that, being an expert zebra hunter...who's never hunted one.

And you'd lose on the range and in the ring. Shut the pie hole while you are behind by about 100 thousand points. Or keep digging. Offer is open. Bet you'd never show. People like you on the internet NEVER have shown up to lose a point in person, be it at the range or in the ring. Quick to be judgmental and last to show up and put up. Could be a guitar forum or a gun forum, you lot are all of the same cloth. Talkers and nothing else. I've actually shown up on some internet related wagers and sometimes I win sometimes I lose, but I showed. Kinda like hunting. It's called "hunting" not "guaranteed getting."

I took that zebra's head apart myself. I know what my target was and the damage I did. I took photos too, being the son of a pathologist...would you like to see them also?

Here, you might need this:

Still a dildo a year later, who woulda thought?

Guess you prove the point that some people are just too fucking stupid to quit when they're behind. I seem to be gaining like minded thinkers and you seem to be prattling about like you did last fall...your credibility is dropping like a STONE.

Now I remember why I got bored with you lot, there's a couple good eggs and a lot of stinky ones. The good eggs I mostly have in my phone book anyway.

Moose brains are not that big.

No matter what size the sweet spot was on the Zebra, Tom nailed it and I am a Moron.

About the retained energy of the 223...read my sig line.

Just this evening, my head shooting buddy took a head shot at a rabbit. He proudly proclaimed his success when it went down. Trouble is, he missed! He hit the neck instead. Same result, 'though.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
Moose brains are not that big.

Thank you. That helps put things in perspective.

quote:

No matter what size the sweet spot was on the Zebra, Tom nailed it ...

Would you be interested in buying some soon to be Ocean Front property in the Smokies?

quote:

About the retained energy of the 223...read my sig line.

So "Energy" has nothing to do with Killing?!?!?!?!? You and tom''' related?
-----

quote:

More tom''' :
...I routinely shoot over 1000 rounds a week. ...

Lets take a quick look at that. He didn't mention if it was Center Fires, Rim Fires, Rifles, Revolvers/Pistols, Bean Shooters or Sling Shots.

Anyone care to guess what "my hero" claims to be shooting "... routinely over 1000 rounds a week."? How `bout it Mr. Miller? What do you believe fits the "claim"?

A strange thread, indeed However, I shoot squirrels only in the head or I don't shoot. I only shoot deer in the head, when I'm hunting with something with less than enough energy to make a certain heart/lung shot. (Oh, yea, those calibers aren't legal for deer, so I didn't say what I just said.)

I have on more than a few ocassions had to dispatch deer that had been head shot..the bullet was a tad low and only broke the jaw and the animal was left to starve to death. I have seen this on elk also as well as one Cape Buffalo that tried to eat me!

I don't have a problem with the shot if everything is a perfect set up..but it can be tricky.

I dont think it much matters what round is fired a 1000 times a week it is all good practice.

Since we are talking the 223 which has no recoil then shooting a .22 for a 1000 rounds a week is just as good as doing it with a 223. The .22 is probably more challenging.

I am not related to Tom but I am related to guys who can easily shoot the end of 2x4 at 300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I dont think it much matters what round is fired a 1000 times a week it is all good practice.

Since we are talking the 223 which has no recoil then shooting a .22 for a 1000 rounds a week is just as good as doing it with a 223. The .22 is probably more challenging.

I am not related to Tom but I am related to guys who can easily shoot the end of 2x4 at 300 yards.

75% of my practice is 22LR and higher end air rifles and pistols for cost purposes, the other quarter is a mixed bag of high powered rifles and handguns. I'd go broke shooting my .458 Lott 1000 rounds a week and break my shoulder too, perhaps.

Trigger and breath control and proper mounting/cheek weld with rifles and shotguns, and stance are the same no matter what caliber you are shooting. Home made snap caps are plenty good for practicing with the spendy rounds to get used to trigger feel and the individual firearm if you can't afford to put much ammo down range provided the firearm is properly sighted in and maintained. This would include half a box before a hunt to make sure nothing goes amiss in sighting in your travels to the sight of the hunt. Scope mounts haven't moved or loosened, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I dont think it much matters what round is fired a 1000 times a week it is all good practice.

Hey Mr.Miller, I agree all practice is good for the shooter, but I disagree that it does not matter for l-o-n-g range shooters what they are shooting.

quote:

Since we are talking the 223 which has no recoil then shooting a .22 for a 1000 rounds a week is just as good as doing it with a 223. The .22 is probably more challenging.

If you could see some of the groups I shot today, it would indeed prove the 22LR can be more challenging.

However, when you begin practicing to make l-o-n-g distance shots, it is extremely important to use the exact Load in the exact rifle you intend to use. A 22LR being deflected by the wind at 50-100yds has a different rate of drift than the 223Rem. So, if you ingrain that amount of drift into your subconscious, it is not going to help when you finally decide to attempt a 300yd 223Rem shot.

quote:

I am not related to Tom but I am related to guys who can easily shoot the end of 2x4 at 300 yards.

Good for you - on both counts.

Ask your buddies who can hit the 2x4 if they spent the majority of their time with anything else but what they intend to shoot, if it would affect their ability to read the wind properly to have a good chance at making those hits. I would be real interested in their take on it, because I know I couldn't do it.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
However, when you begin practicing to make l-o-n-g distance shots, it is extremely important to use the exact Load in the exact rifle you intend to use. A 22LR being deflected by the wind at 50-100yds has a different rate of drift than the 223Rem. So, if you ingrain that amount of drift into your subconscious, it is not going to help when you finally decide to attempt a 300yd 223Rem shot.

Proof is in the pudding not your blather on the net. I spend a lot of time shooting Grendel and .223 in Contender/Encore pistols and Stoner pattern as well as bolt rifles. A rifleman or shooter should know ALL OF HIS GUNS INTIMATELY. And IF I INTEND TO BE LIKELY TAKING HUNTING SHOTS WITH A PARTICULAR RIFLE OR PISTOL I MOSTLY PRACTICE WITH THAT AND THE EXACT LOADS I WILL USE in the lead up to the hunt. Before the zebra kill there were days spent at the range with the exact same .223 and .375 Loads I might end up using to make the kill.

Good luck with Norm and Sam at the bar, my Private Message box is overfull of people that say you're a twat and why do I bother but it's funny to see me give you hell so keep after it...

May you learn to speak pleasantly to people as well as you purport to hunt,
Tom

I'll toss a prayer in for you Sunday at the FBC.

I must say that, having lived in Southern Africa, they do not have the windy conditions I now find myself faced with. (Especially in the winter months). In the picture of the terrain in which the zebra head shot was taken, I would say there was not the slightest breeze. I never learned to deal with wind - now it is a challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
I must say that, having lived in Southern Africa, they do not have the windy conditions I now find myself faced with. (Especially in the winter months). In the picture of the terrain in which the zebra head shot was taken, I would say there was not the slightest breeze. I never learned to deal with wind - now it is a challenge.

And there was not the slightest breeze that day or else I wouldn't have tried the shot...I mentioned that before. Dead calm middle of the day, about 1pm as I recall. Even then I hemmed and hawed for quite a while before deciding to go for it.