I just picked up a Charles Daly left handed mini Mauser action in the white. I cannot decide what to build however. I've narrowed it down to a lightweight 24" 17 Remington, a 21" mannlicher stocked 222 or possibly a 6mm or 25 caliber wildcat on the 222/222Mag. The primary function of this rifle will be to stalk and call fox, lynx and coyotes for fur. I have lots of both 222 and 17 Remington brass and components, having had both in the past. I like both a lot. The wildcats are interesting but don't know if they would be any more useful than the other two. Thanks in advance for any input.

Mart

There is pretty neat cartridge designed by a guy in Canada called a 20 Extreme, 222 shortened and necked down to 20 cal.
Should be some threads on saubier.com about it. guy has used a phenomenal number of different powders and bullet combinations and got real nice groups almost every time. Quite a well thought out process from a guy no one ever heard of before. FS

I have always had a hankering for a hunting 7TCU. We used to fool around with them shooting silhouettes. Not enough snort for the rams, however.

Mart, I had a .222 Mannlicher made on mine, stocked in black cherry. The stock is carmine red and the rifle is gorgeous. PM me and I will text photos if you are interested.

Seventeens are awfully finicky. The 20's are much more practical, but the only commercially loaded centerfire .20 is the .204 Ruger and its case is somewhat larger than desirable. Any of the .22's on the .222 base (.222, .223, .222 Mag) will each do what the other will and any of them will do the job. But if you want a light, quieter, highly efficient rifle for the purposes you outline, then look at the .221 Fireball. If you don't mind messing with a wildcat, its smaller offspring, the .20 Vartarg is "just right" for a .20 caliber cartridge, yielding 3700 fps with a 32 grain bullet. I have a .221 on a Mini Mark X and it's one of my favorite rifles.

30 RAR based wildcat?
22, 6mm, 25, 6.5 or 270?
Methinks the 6-30 RAR would be a good wildcat fer ya although a short neck 25 or 6.8-222 is pretty cool but not enough range for your needs.

If it's a 223 action then I don't know.

I have a 7mm BR built on a 22/250 action it's Jim Andersons right now.

and a 6.5 Grendel built on a 7.62x39 action on the way from Hart.

The 6x45 is a wonderful cartridge and worth considering.

Mart,

My Charles Daly L/H 22-250 Mini-Mauser is sitting in the back of the safe waiting to be turned into a 20" or 22" tubed 300 Savage Ultra-Light, I'm collecting the Bits & Pieces as I go along.

The short, 20" pencil thin 22-250 barrel is currently a loud, hot, .223 Super Remington that blows most of the powder with an extremely loud report out the muzzle.

I guess it would make a really good survival rifle since; if stranded I could quickly fire three cartridges in succession and then stay warm around the barrel, well, almost overnight (at the range it takes forever to cool down) ..... as long as I didn't touch it because it gets hot enought to burn ya.

Having said that; I think the .223 Rem. & .308 Win. are solid candidates for a 20"(ish) tubed Light or Heavy Sporter; the Mini-Mauser affording a swell platform for both the the .223 & "Light" portions.

There's alot of reality & substance in Stonie's remarks above, too; just Color me (or us both) practical.

Here in Europe I'd consider a .222 Remington as it is currently much more popular than the .223 Remington. Stateside I'd select the .223 without hesitation.

Have fun with your choice.

Boy hunting for fur, I would have to build either a 6x47(222mag based) or the 6x45(223 based), back when hynted yotes for bounty we all ways used fmj's so little to no damage to fur and the 6mm's worked great, and you can all ways switch over to a quality hunting bullet for deer and its type

I'd go .204 Ruger. Only because I lke .20 cal in air guns more so than .22'2 or 17.s.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
The 6x45 is a wonderful cartridge and worth considering.

+1

M

Marti,
Since this is your gun pick a cartridge that you will shoot a lot. Whether you choose it as a hunting round or varmint round you should shoot it enough that you learn to trust it and know its limitations. Have fun with it!

Fellows,

I see the 6x47 and 6x45 offered as possibilities. How do they stack up for fur damage? I've taken truckloads of coyotes with the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 22-250 and 220 Swift. The only 6mm varmint shooting has been with the 243 and 6mm. Both were exceedingly hard on foxes and coyotes. My experience with FMJ's has been less than pleasing so if I went with a 6mm it would be expanding bullets. Seems like a 6mm/222 might give low enough velocities to make fur damage minimal but have enough bullet weight to anchor coyotes solidly. Thanks for the input.

Mart

First little 6mm I had was a 6tcu. Then fell into a deal with an XP in 6-223/6x45. I have had 4 or 5 more since then. All have been easy to work with. Accuracy is out standing. H335 has been my go to powder for accuracy. I have ran 55-100 grain bullets in mine. I find the 80 and under weights to work the best. With the Speer 70 grain TNT to be the best of the lot across the board for me.
I did use it on whitetails a couple of times but forget what bullet I used. Shots were 150 and under.
I don't know how bad it would be on hides but the 55 grain Sierra will really scream.
Jeff

You lucky dawg!!

Even as a mini mauser, I'd personally prefer a case a little bit longer than the .221 Rem. You can always load a little longer case down, but there's not too far up one can load a .221 at reasonable pressures.

Having said that, any one of the following would be perfect for that action:

.222
.223
all of the TCU offspring, including the
6 m/m TCU
.25 TCU
6.5m/m TCU
.270 TCU
7m/m TCU
.30 TCU

My own preference would be the .25 TCU or the 6.5 TCU (I already have and love my little 6m/m TCU.) It works fine on deer, prong horned desert goats, turkeys and javelina.

Pick whichever looks the sexiest and turns your crank the most...you can't go wrong with any of them.

Have a think about the 6.8SPC. Does rabits to pigs deer to the size of Fallow.

i would do a 6x45 twisted fast enough so i could shoot up to 100 grn bullets if i needed to. i have 2 6ppc's and a 6.5 grendel so i think a have that area covered but something about that 6x45 keeps calling to me. i have an old rem 600 in 222 that i would like to convert to 6x45

The subbores are/can be pretty finicky, I have had several 17 Rem. and 17/223s and while great, they all needed special/extra attention. Look up the 25 Copperhead, John Wooter's answer to this question. It is a .222 based 25 cal. The 25 TCU would be a good choice since dies are more reasonable. I find almost any .25 to be very versatile and forgiving and you can use cast bullets with good results. I have to agree with AC on another choice and that is the 6.5 TCU. I have a 6.5 TCU barrel that is going onto a very light weight AR based on a Cav Arms plastic lower with minimal barrel and carbon fiber handguard on a DPMS Sportical receiver. The 6mms on the 223 are the rage right now and would be my 3rd choice.

6 X 45 is a great little cartridge.

After all the research I'm back to where I started. At this time I am going to go with the 17 Remington. I have plenty of experience with it, know it will take fox and lynx with a minimal amount of damage and will anchor coyotes. Not so sure on wolves but I have bigger rifles if wolf is on the menu.

I ordered a stock from Walnut Grove. When I get home I'll post a picture of it. It's sure purty. I believe I go with a light 24 inch barrel and a 6x Leupold.

I appreciate all the input. I came to the conclusion that the 6mm/25 wildcats were most likely going to be fine for coyotes but would be tough on fox and cats. Now if I could find a couple more lefty mini Mausers then I would build a 222 and a 6x45 but they are getting hard to find. May have to find a couple Zastava rifles to cannibalize for the other two.

Thanks again for all the great input and advice.

Mart

If you haven't made up your mind completely.Check out the 20 tactical.It is on the 223 case.

If you are still open for suggestions,check out the 20 tactical. It is based on the 223 case. Just neck it down and shoot it.

Andynme,

Thanks for the suggestion but I have a soft spot for both the 17 and 222. Plus I have lots of components for both left over from when I had each.

Mart

The day I find a mini Mauser is the day my smith puts a 6x45 barrel on it for me.

Probably too late, but I'd vote .222. I love the idea of the .222 mini-Mauser with a Mannlicher stock.

How about 220 Russian? Mine is being stocked by Dean Zollinger as we speak. That is the brass that a 6PPC is formed from. Lapua brass is fantastic and will last you long after the barrel is shot out. Just touch the rim in the lathe and it works with your 223 bolt face.


This is not a wildcat. Brass is available.

.222 would be my pick.

What about a 257 Kimber.

In looking at my action it would be tough to load a 257 Kimber out to where it should be. In fact I think a 6x45 would be a tight fit for length. If I was to go with the 25 caliber I think it would have to be the 25/222. When I get home from the slope I'll make up some dummies in 6x222, 6x45, 25/222 and 25x223 to see how they all fit.

Mart

Fellas here's a bit of a follow up on what might fit in the mini Mauser. I just back from the slope last night and hit the gun show this morning. I picked up a pound of TAC to try in my 400 Whelen and looked for some partial boxes of 6mm or 257 bullets to use to make dummy rounds for the mini Mauser.

I thought most of the choices for wildcats on either the 223 or 222 Remington mag would end up being too long and it looks like I was right. The mini Mauser is a great action and well suited for the 17 Remington, 221 Fireball, 222, 223 and 222 Remington magnum. Once we start opening up the neck, it looks like the 223 and 222 mag start loosing ground to the 222. The magazine box is 2.280 so if we limit the OAL to 2.270 we have to seat 6mm and 257 bullets extremely deep to function in the short box of the mini. Here's some pics.

The Daly action. CM still in the white.


The line up left to right - 222 (2.270 OAL), 223 seated to 2.270, 223 seated to the base of the neck and 222 RM seated to the base of the neck with a 6mm Hornady 87 grain SP. Next is the Hornady 257 87 grain SP with the 222 (2.270 OAL), 223 and 222RM both seated to the base of the neck. and lastly is the 222 (2.270 OAL) and the 223 with an unknown 6.5 100 grain HP. The 223 seated to the base of the neck.



This is a closer look at the 6x45 with the 87 grain Hornady. One to the base of the neck and the other loaded to 2.270 OAL.



The Daly action with a 6x222 round loaded to 2.270 OAL. Looks like a good fit to me.

300 Blackout...

The caliber is immaterial.

Get it with a full mannlicher stock in good wood... A thing of beauty!

Another vote for the 6.5 TCU.

Mart, have you settled on the cartridge of choice yet? Sounds like use with fur gathering may be in the list of tasks for the cartridge? 6mm something offers a vast variety of bullets for many utility uses. I've long thought of the .25 Copperhead (25/222) but better bullet selection with the 6mm, and the game won't know the difference!
Nothing like spare time on the slope to let one's mind wander on such projects!

The three I have and use based on the 223 are:
6.5TCU
6x45 (6mmX223)
20 Vartarg

If interested there is 300 Blackout or 300 Whisper. The col is 2.260

I built a custom 6x45 on a l-461 Sako some 25 years ago, It is built in English style and with scope it weighs 5.5 lbs..It shoots .300 or less 10 shot groups at 100 yards off the bench with reasonable consistency or if I do my part..18 inch Douglas 1x12 barrel, chamber is a bench rest chamber and I could actually reload it without resizing..I have to outside trim the necks...It shoots the 60 gr. Sierr HP into one small hold and shoots GS Custom or the old BarnesX 75 HPs into and inch to and inch and a quarter regularly...I have killed a ton of coyotes, Jack Rabbits, Rock Chucks with the 60 gr. bullets and more than a few deer, antelope, and African Plainsgame with the GS custom and Barnes X 75 gr. bullets..Mostly one shot instant kills with a precious few making 40 yards or less..I have kept my range to 200 yards with only a few at about 300 yards...

Its my baby African rifle walk about rifle. Love it, and I don't keep many rifles this long. but this one has a home.'

You can't go wrong with a 6x45....Its a wonder round.

quote:

Originally posted by mart:
Andynme,

Thanks for the suggestion but I have a soft spot for both the 17 and 222. Plus I have lots of components for both left over from when I had each.

Mart

Of the two you mentioned, I'd go with the .222!
I own both and my .222's are much more accurate than the .17 Remington. The .17 is considerably faster but that comes at a cost.

Stepchild

222 would never be wrong. I would suggest a 204 ruger before the 17 rem. A lot less fouling.

To up date on this, I ended up with three of the left handed Charles Daly actions. Two of them are on their way back from Pacnor right now. One is a 17 Remington, the other is a 6mmx222. The third on will become a 222 but it will have to wait till I get done stocking these two. The 6mm is turning around as soon as I get it and going to MPI for a stock. The 17 has a nice pre-inlet walnut stock waiting for it. It will have to wait till this winter when I have some time to work on it.

I opted for the 6x222 over the other wildcats (6x45 or 6x47) because of the short magazine. As I posted before the 6x222 is perfectly suited for the magazine as it is. The other two are really two long for the short Daly magazine and end up with the bullets seated pretty deep in the case.

The 6x222 should be back from MPI just in time for the fur season. I'm anxious to see how it performs with some of the various bullets I have accumulated.

As to the fouling with the 17 Remington, I never had a problem with it with my previous one. In fact I got to a point where I was going a few hundred rounds between cleanings and not seeing any loss of accuracy. I would get to feeling guilty after a while and clean the little rifle but it really didn't seem to need it. I was still picking off ground squirrels and coyotes with no difficulty, even after 250-300 rounds. I think the early 17's may have had an issue with getting good bores and had trouble with fouling. The more recent 17's I've been around seem to not need cleaning any more frequently than their 22 caliber brethren.

Mart